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...More on the Subject of Class


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Over 20 years ago I moved back to my old neighborhood, with my family.  In many ways it was a completely different neighbor. There was far less crime and no vacant lots.  Banks, grocery stores, and other businesses one would expect in a community were now present. 

@Delano has been to this place.  The generified Harlem.  Technically, I was a "gentrifier," someone coming into an impoverished neighborhood with contrasting middle class values.   

 

Having come from the very neighborhood, I knew better than to come in with guns blazing trying to impose bougie middle class values on the people already there.  This is a mistake my white counterpart often made.

 

Of course middle class people and lower class people will clash.  It does not mean the people are inherently "bad" they have different often conflicting sensibilities, which leads to very different behaviors.  One of these behaviors is blasting music for no good reason.

 

For several eyas there was a guy who lived behind my million dollar brownstone who blasted music, speaker facing outward, for no reason that I could discern.  I could not get into the building to talk to the person, the city's 311 number was useless, I just had to accept it.  in 2006 I bogged about this, "Can Black People Go 5 Minutes Without Music?"     

 

It is one of my most popular Blog posts.  I get comments weekly.  Below is one I got a couple of hours ago:

 

I hear u. I live in east NY bklyn it's pretty bad here 2. Only when it rains or the weather is so crappy u can't be outside. I'm talking to you today on October 2021. We had heavy rains and street flooding all night into the mid morning. As soon as the rains ended they were back out w/ the boomboxes + car stereos etc. I mean like within minutes after the rains stopped. Someone on this thread said BLACK PEOPLE MUST HAVE THE ''THUMP'', this I 💯 agree with completely. it's almost as if the neighborhood EXPECTS it. It's all over here in this area. Why do people tolerate it? My guess is they DGAF & don't care how intrusive it is. it is a cultural thing. This happens in poor black areas not just in bklyn I'm betting. High unemployment rates and truancy give mostly young black males alotta time 2 hang around and do this. Since they don't have jobs they can indulge in thisbassholery all day, every day.. it's maddening.

 

Some of the comments I received over the years were blatantly racist.  Race has nothing to do with class, but the title of my Blog post fails to make that distinction. A couple of years ago added an addendum to my original blog post pointing out that I deliberately used a provocative title to attract attention (a tactic that worked), but more importantly to emphasize that "...my title for this blog post was ill-conceived, as it implies; blasting music in public is something only Black people do."

 

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Not only does financial status and education influence "class" but race and ethnicity also heavily influence "class" in this nation.

I sincerely believe that it's in the NATURE of most Black people to want to celebrate with loud music, especially bass and drums.
The youth and poor AfroAmericans are just careless enough to let it all hang out and do what MOST AfroAmericans of all social classes and ages want to do anyway but are reluctant to do because of how it may be PERCEIVED by their Caucasian friends or colleagues.

Loud music is part of our tradition.
As well as public dancing and walking around singing.
Throwing Block Parties is another Black tradition that extends beyond class and economic status and is just part of OUR nature.
 

image.jpeg.82264f8dd5fd6c61c579f0c561f386b1.jpeg  Wall decals music - Wall decal African dance | Ambiance-sticker.com


We are a communal people by nature.

it just so happens that loud music....like many other characteristics like dressing in loud vivid colors....is associated with "low" class and poor people because so many OF our people have been poor in this nation historically.
So it became associated with poverty and low class....instead of a more appropriate association with Black and Brown people.

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

One of these behaviors is blasting music for no good reason.

I believe music is an opiate. It  can tap into the  full range of human emotions. Music provides an escape whether it makes someone feel good and dance to being able to zone and tune out the noise in their lives.

 

As Rakim said, "turn up the bass, it's better when it's loud...move the crowd". 😁

 

So, there's a reason people like loud music. But, they should be considerate of where and who they choose to get high around. 😎

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thisbassholery all day

 

Lol...pretty witty.

 


This conversation reminds me of Radio Raheem from Do The Right Thing


Radio Raheem remembered

"Gimme two slices.
...and put some moosarella on that mutha"




 

 

 


Troy

 


 Race has nothing to do with class

 

In a race-based society such as the United States, your race often IS your class in many settings.

 

As I said in another thread, a lot of characteristics we associate with a certain class are often actually ETHNIC based characteristics that transcend class.


For example....
Heterosexual Black men of ALL classes tend to like women with big butts and wide hips.

We also like bass in our music regardless if we are poor or rich.

Even our sense of humor tends to be similar regardless of socio-economic status.


 

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14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I sincerely believe that it's in the NATURE of most Black people to want to celebrate with loud music, especially bass and drums.

 

Maybe it is part of human nature on some level.  As a resident or a predominantly white neighborhood, I can tell you that white folks do the same thing. 

 

14 hours ago, ProfD said:

But, they should be considerate of where and who they choose to get high around.

 

I love music and understand the power it has to move people, but the operative word is "considerate."

 

12 hours ago, Cynique said:

There is a sizeable segment of white baby boomers and GenXers

 

I always wondered about this, but never aw any reports of this being the case.  I suspects thing will be worse with people blasting music in their headphones so loud I can hear their music on a crowded subway

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

In a race-based society such as the United States, your race often IS your class in many settings.

 

Again, I disagree, you and Cynique are both Black, but you are in different social classes 

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

For example....
Heterosexual Black men of ALL classes tend to like women with big butts and wide hips.

We also like bass in our music regardless if we are poor or rich.

Even our sense of humor tends to be similar regardless of socio-economic status.

 

 

You have proclivity for making sweeping generalizations.  While this may make it easier for you to understand the world for you, the relatively is that if gives you a faulty perspective.  

 

I'm a cis gender heterosexual male and I not a fan of big butts.  They have bass settings on all radios because people, including Black ones have difference preferences for the amount of bass in music.  The recent hullaballoo over Dave Chappelle's latest special should tell you that there are other factors than class that determines what one finds funny.   

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39 minutes ago, Troy said:

You have proclivity for making sweeping generalizations.  While this may make it easier for you to understand the world for you, the relatively is that if gives you a faulty perspective.  

@TroyThank you for summing up in a nutshell what i find  so annoying about Pioneer, who resides in a world of his own making.

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38 minutes ago, Troy said:

I love music and understand the power it has to move people, but the operative word is "considerate."

Man, that word needs to be applied to everything we do as human beings.  Loud music, road rage, talking loud on cell phones in public places, wearing the wrong sh8t outside, etc.

 

Either I'm becoming a grumpy old man and/or my level of conscience has heightened to the point that the level of  narcissism in our society has reached an all-time high.

 

People seem to be more considerate of each other during natural disasters, pandemic, emergencies and other crisis. 

 

During  the holiday season folks  seem to be a bit more courteous and considerate of each other too. 

 

Well, except for the Black Friday sales rush when dumbazz folks storm stores for the one 70 inch TV on sale for $100. 😁😎

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35 minutes ago, ProfD said:

People seem to be more considerate of each other during natural disasters, pandemic, emergencies and other crisis. 

 

To a point, as the situation becomes more dire people begin to turn on each other.  This is the thing the country needs to concern itself with.  

 

@Cynique the question is will Pioneer receive the comment as a perfectly valid critique, or become defensive, reject the idea completely, and continue believing all Black men like big butts 😉

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9 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

To a point, as the situation becomes more dire people begin to turn on each other.  This is the thing the country needs to concern itself with. 

Sure.  But, in my eternal optimism, I do not foresee such a cataclysmic event that will precipate such a thing.  I believe the middle class or illusion thereof has been expanded and anesthetized in a such a way to prevent a civil war of any kind. 

 

IMO, folks will air their real or perceived grievances and squabble about their freedoms being infringed upon and whatnot but nothing has or will reach a powder keg to the point of explosion and chaos. 

 

Nowadays, I'm watching folks march, protest and riot over a number of things but the outcome is always the same when the smoke clears and dust settles.  It was just an exercise for the most part.😎

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Here in the "midwest" (winking at @Pioneer1) and more broadly the south it is harder to be as optimistic -- and I'm a natural optimist.

 

People are stock piling weapons and ammunition.  The boys down here are not playing.  

 

Just think about the environment it takes to get hundreds of adults to storm the white house... 

 

People truly believe the election was stolen and that Trump actually won.  As with anit-vaxxers the truth does not matter.  They are operating with completely different information, "alternative facts" and believe what they are doing is right.

 

Again the web's ability to create these filter bubble and quickly spread lies is a major problem for our culture.

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Did either of you see Bill Maher's  video dramatizing what  is on tap for America if Retrumpicans get the upper hand.  It was really scary.   The fall of the American Empire is imminent -  and inevitable. I am not optimistic.  

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36 minutes ago, Troy said:

People are stock piling weapons and ammunition.  The boys down here are not playing.  

 

Just think about the environment it takes to get hundreds of adults to storm the white house... 

 

People truly believe the election was stolen and that Trump actually won.  As with anit-vaxxers the truth does not matter.  They are operating with completely different information, "alternative facts" and believe what they are doing is right.

 

True. 

 

White folks all over the US have been stockpiling guns forever.  They are prepared to deal wtih a civil war against non-white people if it comes to pass.  That's why the 2nd amendment is so important to them. 

 

The insurrection was an exercise of white privilege born out of a false sense of white grievance. 

 

The outcome of that insurrection would have been totally different if those people were non-white.  The grounds of the US Capitol would have been a mass casualty site.

 

This is what usually happens when a non-white person gets near the US Capitol:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/02/police-respond-call-possible-shooting-u-s-capitol/7064125002/

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/miriam-carey-was-shot-at-26-times-by-law-enforcement-near-the-capitol-in-2013-her-sister-contrasts-her-fate-to-the-treatment-of-the-jan-6-rioters/2021/01/19/0432bdbe-5a51-11eb-a976-bad6431e03e2_story.html

 

These two people were in vehicles outside the barricade to the US Capitol.  Yet, they were lit up like Christmas trees being nowhere near the steps, windows or doors of the US Capitol.

 

IMO, stolen election, anti-vax stance, illegal immigration, CRT, mask mandates, etc., are distractions being used to keep people dazed and confused. 

 

None of it will lead to a civil war because the average American citizen has too much to lose.   They can grumble and complain but they don't want any real smoke.  😎

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cynique said:

The fall of the American Empire is imminent -  and inevitable. I am not optimistic.  

Yes and it won't be pretty. The US has always had pockets that were like emerging countries (aka third world). No it's more like pants. There is a lot of desperation since people are becoming aware that their way of life is threatened. Even some Billionaires are feeling this pressure, hence the pledge to give away their wealth either before they die or after. While this pledge may be more publicity than reality it does speak to the fear of the peasants storming the castle.

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Troy

 


Maybe it is part of human nature on some level.  As a resident or a predominantly white neighborhood, I can tell you that white folks do the same thing. 

 

I've lived in predominately White neighborhoods and I haven't experienced them playing loud music on a regular basis except during a bar-b-que or outside birthday party.

Certainly not every day.

And I've lived in places as White as Portland, lol.

 

 


and continue believing all Black men like big butts 

 

But I never said ALL Black men liked big butts.

You have a habit of setting up STRAW MEN arguments to jab and stab at instead of dealing with the actual specific statements I make.

 

What is a Straw Man Argument? (with picture)

"But you said EVERY SINGLE 
BLACK MAN on the planet
loves big butts...and that's
simply not true!"

 

 

 

I said Black men TEND to
Meaning: for the most part, not all.
It's been my experience and observation that MOST Black men like women with wide hips and big butts.
Not all.

But you'll toss that "all" in there just to make it sound broad based and sweeping...so you can side-kick it down, lol

 

 

 


Cynique

 

 

who resides in a world of his own making.

 

I thought you said I WASN'T an abstract thinker, lol.


 

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18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You have a habit of setting up STRAW MEN arguments to jab and stab at instead of dealing with the actual specific statements I make.

 

WHAT?!  Negro, you have the nerve to accuse someone else of creating strawman arguments.  You are the strawman master!

 

Dude you wrote: "Heterosexual Black men of ALL classes tend to like women with big butts and wide hips." 

 

This is a very different statement than your second version: "It's been my experience and observation that MOST Black men like women with wide hips and big butts."

 

Do you understand the difference?  The first is a declaration that would require support to substantiate, as it can be easily refuted.  The second statement is based upon your observations which I'd never question, unless I though you were being disingenuous or lying.

 

Your  strawman argument is stating that I disputed the 2nd statement, which was not the statement you originally made.

 

Do you understand?

 

 

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Troy


Your INSERTION of the word "all" in my statements is what turned them into your strawmen to target.
 

 

Arguing is easy; persuasion is hard: what Donald Trump teaches us about  debate. - Upworthy

"You said ALL Black men like big butts!
Yes you did....YES YOU DID.
You MUST say this in order for
me to win  the argument!"

 

 

 

 


Dude you wrote: "Heterosexual Black men of ALL classes tend to like women with big butts and wide hips." 

 
Which is a TRUE statement!

Rich, poor, or in between....you will find Black men who tend to like women with big butts and wide hips!

It's not the ONLY thing they like.
Hell....some like OTHER MEN.
But what do MOST of them like?
 

Now if you're saying I'm wrong.....
Then what you're saying is:  There are SOME CLASSES in which none of the heterosexual Black men IN those classes find women with big butts and wide hips attractive.
That's LITERALLY what you're saying by disagreeing with my statement.

And if that's what you believe, then WHICH CLASS would that be?



 

Do you understand the difference?  The first is a declaration that would require support to substantiate, as it can be easily refuted.  

Then refute it....with proof or empirical evidence please.





 

Your  strawman argument is stating that I disputed the 2nd statement, which was not the statement you originally made.
 

If you dispute the FIRST one...you're still in error.
In my opinion....
Unless you can prove otherwise.




 

Do you understand?


Yes, I understand the problem quite well.


I think both you AND Cynique need to enroll in classes together this semester...lol

She can take a class in Behavioral Therapy.
You can take a class in Logic.

....lol

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@Pioneer:.You are who needs to acquire some credentials of your own.  The only thing you excel in is the ridiculous arrogance you display in thinking the world is interested or impressed with your half cocked theories and categorizations about everything under the sun, when  the only thing you come close to being is mediocre. 

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