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What Keeps Us from Moving Forward


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Whether it's race, class, gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity our society is troubled to the least. It doesn't matter which party controls Congress or the Presidency either. Getting any significant political reform to benefit working people or ensure a more free and equal society for all seems impossible. So, what's wrong? What keeps us from moving forward? Consider the narrative of a center-right political consensus. Secondly, the role of so called moderate centrists especially in the Democratic Party; and lastly the role of wealthy people and big corporations. 

 

Politicians in both parties more or less uphold the idea of less government, lower taxes on upper incomes, corporations, economic growth over fairness. All this helps the rich and big business. It's why we don't have paid leave, a higher minimum wage, reduced greenhouse gases, or affordable healthcare for all. The media features pundits, commentary, and analysis which claims the public is against major reforms to ensure economic and social justice. They claim America is a center right country of conservatives and moderates. The media conveys the notion so called left liberal "elites" are pushing an agenda that ordinary people won't accept. Also, popular culture in all forms vilifies those fighting for positive social change. They are portrayed as aloof, weird, pushy, overly sensitive, flighty, and foolish. They aren't ordinary people raising legitimate concerns. They are extremists who cause trouble. They disturb the peace, threaten free speech, thought, and keep us needlessly divided with their " causes." 

 

Meanwhile it's politics as usual. The political right becomes more extreme especially in states where they dominate the government. On television they use Fox News and Am talk radio to cater to their base and pick up just enough moderates or undecided people to build a power base. At the national level moderates mainly, Democrats spend most of their time criticizing liberals and leftists especially those within the Democratic Party trying to advance a reformist political agenda. They claim it's things like Single Payer health insurance, the Green New Deal, or stopping racist policing are not politically feasible or desirable. What's worse is these moderates will go along with the Republican Right in Congress to reform. They have done it on police reform, voting rights, and Build Back Better. The original legislation included paid leave, free community college, and more investment to reduce carbon emissions. Don't forget Moderate Democratic Senators Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona.

 

Wealthy people and corporations fit into all this using lobbyists, political action committees, and campaign contributions to influence political leaders. They don't want a more equal economy that benefits workers because it means wealthy investors, owners, and executives would have less wealth and income. They depend on a less democratic country and a less responsive government to safeguard their power and ultimately wealth. To the extent almost all of them are straight, white, men discrimination based on race, gender, sexual orientation, and gender identity is rampant in business and social circles among these monied elites. However, some of them don't care who you are. Some rich people and corporate executives are fine with token progress towards social equality. But they don't want major change alongside economic justice. 

 

We must forge a politics that is grassroots and electoral to change America for the better. It must be built on the idea that capitalism should benefit working people along with wealthy owners and investors. Furthermore, no one should be excluded because of their race, gender, national origin, or sexual orientation. If you think race is the only thing that matters, remember black people are male, female, gay, straight, transgender, and queer. Furthermore, most of us work for a living too. We must strive together to arrive together. 

 

BTW that last line is not my own...lol!
 

Edited by KENNETH
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People like Cynique is keeping the nation from moving forward.


Kenneth

I have a couple points and questions about your topic.

1.  When you ask what's keeping "us" from moving forward, who is the "us" you are referring too specifically?

2. Whether you're talking about the nation in general or the Black American community in specific....you should know that many are ALREADY going forward and will continue to go forward as individuals.  They aren't relying on or waiting on the group.

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5 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

People like Cynique is keeping the nation from moving forward.


Kenneth

I have a couple points and questions about your topic.

1.  When you ask what's keeping "us" from moving forward, who is the "us" you are referring too specifically?

2. Whether you're talking about the nation in general or the Black American community in specific....you should know that many are ALREADY going forward and will continue to go forward as individuals.  They aren't relying on or waiting on the group.

 

I'm referring to black people, working class people, women. and LGBTQ people. Anyone who works every day and isn't monied, straight, white, and male. In so many words the majority of Americans. Yet I wanted to center on black people and move outward because it's important to deal with race as much as the other issues. I think we often talk about individuals or individualism outside any societal context. This becomes meaningless when discussing politics or issues. In some ways it becomes evasive. There are always individuals in any society or group who may be doing well even if those around them are not. 

 

Think about it like this. Slavery was no less problematic or unjust simply because some slaves were treated well, or some blacks were free. Legal and DeFacto segregation were the same way. There were black businesses, civic institutions, and decent areas in black neighborhoods. But the situation was bad. It had to be challenged. I would make two final points:

 

1. No individual can continue to thrive in an unjust social or collective setting.

 

2. If every black person is to be free as an individual then we must work collectively to challenge racial and economic inequality. 

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Kenneth

Ok, thank you for answering my question and clarifying..........

Well, I can say that I DON'T WANT TO  unite with most Wht people or most of those in the LGBT community.
Infact, working class White men are THEE most racist demographic in this society.

I can get along with them as long as they stay in their community and away from me and mine, but as far as uniting with them and working with them....I have little desire to do so.
Which is why I prefer a SALAD BOWL type of society where we each can keep out separate communities and sub-cultures instead of a melting pot that blends us.

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No. Black. Unity.. If. The. NAACP ,Black. Democrats. Can. Organize. ,To. Get. Black. Votes. They. Should. Organize. Kwanzaa. ,To. Uplift ,Black. Communities. ..Churches. Are. Slave. Cabins. And. Pimp ,,Houses. Preachers. Steal. All. The. Church. Money ...Talk. They. Have. Been. Blessed..  Preachers. Are. Snakes,Jackals. ,Hyenas ,Vultures.  ..Black. People. Enslaved. Their Own. People. And ,Communities..  Where. Is. Black. Lives. Matter. And. The 90 $ Million. Dollars. In. Contributions. They. Got. ??????Millions. Of. Dollars. Going. To. Ukraine. ,How. Many. Millions. Going. To. Poor ,Inner. City. Schools. And. Communities. ...????

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

 


Kenneth

Ok, thank you for answering my question and clarifying..........

Well, I can say that I DON'T WANT TO  unite with most Wht people or most of those in the LGBT community.
Infact, working class White men are THEE most racist demographic in this society.

I can get along with them as long as they stay in their community and away from me and mine, but as far as uniting with them and working with them....I have little desire to do so.
Which is why I prefer a SALAD BOWL type of society where we each can keep out separate communities and sub-cultures instead of a melting pot that blends us.

 

It's hard to say I blame you because white men support Trump and oppose all kinds of policies that might benefit them just because blacks would also be helped. As for LGBTQ people many of them are black. Furthermore, white racism cuts across class, income, and education. I want a country that really works for us all, and we have to work together within the political system to get it.  To the extent we can prevail good things like individual freedom and genuine pluralism are possible. These two things would greatly benefit black people, our culture, and community.

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Kenneth

It's true that a lot of LGBT are Black....I contend that the REASON you have so many Black LGBT today is because of our proximity and closeness to White people and their strong influence on our community.  Especially since so-called Integration.

If we weren't so close to them with them constantly influencing our culture so much and introducing different perverse ways and lifestyles to our people, there wouldn't be NEARLY as many LGBT and sexually confused people in our community.  You'd have some, but not NEARLY as many.

We need to SEPARATE from White people....not get closer to them or unite with them.
That will help us much more than trying to get along with them....which most of us can't anyway no matter how hard some of us try.

The problem with getting along with White people isn't with us....it's with them.
Most Black people (including myself) WANT to get along with White people and try very hard to do so even when it goes against our very nature to do so, but so many White people DO NOT want to live with or get along with or even work with Black people even when they're forced to.....it just doesn't happen.

I want a nation that works for us all too.
I think America can be that nation and I think all races CAN get along....as long as we have the freedom to express ourselves and our culture without the interference of others.  When Black people are ALLOWED to be ourselves without White people trying to dictate and control us, we EXCELL.
Most White people instinctively know this, which is why they love to constantly interfere in our development as a people.

Forget about trying to unite with White people and even other races for that matter and let them do them.
Focus more on uniting BLACK PEOPLE with eachother under a more righteous and progressive agenda by strengthening the families, cutting the crime, and innovating technology and medicines to heal our people from the problems they've encountered living among a poisionous White civilization.

Black people are TOO UN-ALIKE White people to call ourselves trying to live under their civilization.
The very FOODS that work for them often times don't work for us and gives our people various problems.

Let's SEPARATE from them and build OUR OWN.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Kenneth

It's true that a lot of LGBT are Black....I contend that the REASON you have so many Black LGBT today is because of our proximity and closeness to White people and their strong influence on our community.  Especially since so-called Integration.

If we weren't so close to them with them constantly influencing our culture so much and introducing different perverse ways and lifestyles to our people, there wouldn't be NEARLY as many LGBT and sexually confused people in our community.  You'd have some, but not NEARLY as many.

We need to SEPARATE from White people....not get closer to them or unite with them.
That will help us much more than trying to get along with them....which most of us can't anyway no matter how hard some of us try.

The problem with getting along with White people isn't with us....it's with them.
Most Black people (including myself) WANT to get along with White people and try very hard to do so even when it goes against our very nature to do so, but so many White people DO NOT want to live with or get along with or even work with Black people even when they're forced to.....it just doesn't happen.

I want a nation that works for us all too.
I think America can be that nation and I think all races CAN get along....as long as we have the freedom to express ourselves and our culture without the interference of others.  When Black people are ALLOWED to be ourselves without White people trying to dictate and control us, we EXCELL.
Most White people instinctively know this, which is why they love to constantly interfere in our development as a people.

Forget about trying to unite with White people and even other races for that matter and let them do them.
Focus more on uniting BLACK PEOPLE with eachother under a more righteous and progressive agenda by strengthening the families, cutting the crime, and innovating technology and medicines to heal our people from the problems they've encountered living among a poisionous White civilization.

Black people are TOO UN-ALIKE White people to call ourselves trying to live under their civilization.
The very FOODS that work for them often times don't work for us and gives our people various problems.

Let's SEPARATE from them and build OUR OWN.

 

I gave up on the idea of black people having our own country in North America a long time ago. And it makes no sense to live in the US and self-segregate either. We can build our community and be ourselves if we fight to make a less racist more economically just America. Despite our continuing problems look how far we've come since the 1960s. More work needs to be done, but I won't discount the progress made.  America is as much ours as anyone else, so I don't think in terms of " their civilization."

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3 hours ago, KENNETH said:

 

I gave up on the idea of black people having our own country in North America a long time ago. And it makes no sense to live in the US and self-segregate either. We can build our community and be ourselves if we fight to make a less racist more economically just America. Despite our continuing problems look how far we've come since the 1960s. More work needs to be done, but I won't discount the progress made.  America is as much ours as anyone else, so I don't think in terms of " their civilization."


That's the problem brother, our people HAVEN'T made more progress since the 60s....it's gotten MUCH WORSE.

Before the 60s there was less crime, less broken families, less of our people incarcerated (including percentage wise) and more of us own our own businesses, banks, hotels, ect.....
Wnen was the last time you even SAW a Black hotel let alone stayed in one?

The only people "integration" helped was White people. Living around us more helped them by teaching them how to cook better, make better music, and dress better by giving them a sense of style.
White men were NERDY AS HELL before learning how to act and dress by watching Black men.

They benefit by living around us because we have CREATIVITY and they try to steal it and emulate it.
That doesn't help US though.

Integration made our people LAZY to the point that you no longer have Black banks, Black supermarkets, or hotels....most Black neighborhood do good to have a few Black barbershops and restaurants.

Like I said we CAN live together as a nation....as long as Black people keep themselves separate in our own communities and demand that the Federal resources go to those communities instead of trying to "integrate" everything into a White controlled general society.

SEPARATION...not SEGREGATION.
Under Segregation THEY kept us apart and controlled things, but under SEPARATION we have the power over our own separate communities.

We need OUR OWN schools controlled by us with OUR OWN curriculum to teach our children how to operate OUR communities inside America.
That's the ONLY way it will work with us living with them.

You try it that "melting pot" crap and you're gonna have THEM in charge with a lot of Black folks going to jail, unemployed, getting fired from their jobs for wearing dreads, getting cancer and diabetes, and many other problems that come from TRYING to get along with and live with and imitate them and their poisonous civilization.

Western civilization works for WHITE FOLKS and their nature, but their civilization and ways are POISONOUS and DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to our very nature as a people and we need to be able to develop and control our own communities and culture to not only thrive but just survive!

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Redistribution of wealth and power is the only way for us to move forward.

 

Reparations to ADOS would provide AfroAmericans with the resources to build better communities with everything to include housing, schools, medical facilities, banks, grocery stores and other businesses.

 

Politicians on both sides of the aisle want no parts of such a discussion or plan of action. It's a non-starter. 

 

Instead of dealing with the byproduct of America's origin sin, white folks would much rather obfuscate the real issues and jump down rabbit holes that don't have anything to do with the elephant in the room.

 

The whole alphabet movement (LGBTQIA+) has been another great distraction. Back in the 1960s it was white women's rights. 

 

Anything to avoid dealing with AfroAmericans has been the modus operandi of white supremacists for many decades and counting. 😎

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:


That's the problem brother, our people HAVEN'T made more progress since the 60s....it's gotten MUCH WORSE.

Before the 60s there was less crime, less broken families, less of our people incarcerated (including percentage wise) and more of us own our own businesses, banks, hotels, ect.....
Wnen was the last time you even SAW a Black hotel let alone stayed in one?

The only people "integration" helped was White people. Living around us more helped them by teaching them how to cook better, make better music, and dress better by giving them a sense of style.
White men were NERDY AS HELL before learning how to act and dress by watching Black men.

They benefit by living around us because we have CREATIVITY and they try to steal it and emulate it.
That doesn't help US though.

Integration made our people LAZY to the point that you no longer have Black banks, Black supermarkets, or hotels....most Black neighborhood do good to have a few Black barbershops and restaurants.

Like I said we CAN live together as a nation....as long as Black people keep themselves separate in our own communities and demand that the Federal resources go to those communities instead of trying to "integrate" everything into a White controlled general society.

SEPARATION...not SEGREGATION.
Under Segregation THEY kept us apart and controlled things, but under SEPARATION we have the power over our own separate communities.

We need OUR OWN schools controlled by us with OUR OWN curriculum to teach our children how to operate OUR communities inside America.
That's the ONLY way it will work with us living with them.

You try it that "melting pot" crap and you're gonna have THEM in charge with a lot of Black folks going to jail, unemployed, getting fired from their jobs for wearing dreads, getting cancer and diabetes, and many other problems that come from TRYING to get along with and live with and imitate them and their poisonous civilization.

Western civilization works for WHITE FOLKS and their nature, but their civilization and ways are POISONOUS and DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to our very nature as a people and we need to be able to develop and control our own communities and culture to not only thrive but just survive!

 

Blacks own more businesses today than ever check out the stats. We are better educated than ever. Some of the differences are:

 

1. All black people no longer live together in segregated neighborhoods, so class divisions are clearer 

2. We always had crime and drugs in the larger urban areas and things were getting worse in the 1960s thru the 1970s

3.  We never achieved real integration because racism just became more subtle despite some real progress made

4.  Black people were hurt by the change from an industrial to service economy that ruined urban areas we mainly lived in

5. Our economy is more unequal for all working people than ever and for the poorest blacks who never got ahead things are worse

6.  Racial and economic inequality that marginalize all black people and the poorest most of all will undermine love, dignity, self-esteem, marriage, family, and all kinds of achievement.  

 

We also have to stop laboring under the myth that American is made up of self-sufficient groups of people living completely apart who can thrive that way. Most of us work every day for someone else who gets rich off our labor. The elite capitalist class is mainly straight white male and cisgendered. But there are elite class members who don't belong in this configuration. Some are black men and women. That's capitalism. It can be good or awful, so we have to be engaged in politics and activist struggle. Cultural pride, creativity, community building, being a good individual, or strong families aren't a substitute for engagement to shape the politics and counter the powers that be. So much of Black Nationalism and Afrocentrism are escapist not militant or revolutionary modes of struggle for black liberation. 

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22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

People like Cynique is keeping the nation from moving forward.

 

@Pioneer1What an ignorant turd you are. You can't even write a grammatically-correct sentence; it should be: "people like cynique are keeping the nation from moving forward", not is keeping the nation from moving forward. tsk-tsk

 

@KENNETHI'm sure everything you have to say is worthwhile, but the subject matter is one that no longer captivates me because I've been there, heard that. (I do find the font you originally  posted in to be very interesting and maybe even revealing.) But since you are of the liberal/progressive left persuasion instead of the bat shit crazy right wing, the possibility of you being a troll does not bother me.

 

What is a hindrance to thoroughly checking out your narrative is that in order to do so, I'd have to wade through all of pioneer's droppings that contaminate every post he insinuates himself into, grunting out what he thinks everybody should feel privileged to read.  Be advised that he is a mentally disturbed ego maniac, steeped in self-importance and obviously of the opinion that what African Americans need is for him to be in charge of the race because he has everything all figured out and knows all the answers. and if he could just make them over in his image and be their leader, everything would be perfect. 👉🏽💩      🤣😂😆

 

Characters like him are who make me glad that my advanced age makes it unlikely that I would have to exist under the leadership of a messianic fool like him.  

 

i am content to simply be a spectator in the American arena, watching from my front row seat, throwing tomatoes at the zeroes who think they are heroes. 

 

I wish you well. 

 

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On 8/7/2022 at 6:45 PM, harry brown said:

No. Black. Unity.. If. The. NAACP ,Black. Democrats. Can. Organize. ,To. Get. Black. Votes. They. Should. Organize. Kwanzaa. ,To. Uplift ,Black. Communities. ..Churches. Are. Slave. Cabins. And. Pimp ,,Houses. Preachers. Steal. All. The. Church. Money ...Talk. They. Have. Been. Blessed..  Preachers. Are. Snakes,Jackals. ,Hyenas ,Vultures.  ..Black. People. Enslaved. Their Own. People. And ,Communities..  Where. Is. Black. Lives. Matter. And. The 90 $ Million. Dollars. In. Contributions. They. Got. ??????Millions. Of. Dollars. Going. To. Ukraine. ,How. Many. Millions. Going. To. Poor ,Inner. City. Schools. And. Communities. ...????

 

Yeah.

 

 

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On 8/8/2022 at 8:28 AM, Cynique said:

@Pioneer1What an ignorant turd you are. You can't even write a grammatically-correct sentence; it should be: "people like cynique are keeping the nation from moving forward", not is keeping the nation from moving forward. tsk-tsk

 

@KENNETHI'm sure everything you have to say is worthwhile, but the subject matter is one that no longer captivates me because I've been there, heard that. (I do find the font you originally  posted in to be very interesting and maybe even revealing.) But since you are of the liberal/progressive left persuasion instead of the bat shit crazy right wing, the possibility of you being a troll does not bother me.

 

What is a hindrance to thoroughly checking out your narrative is that in order to do so, I'd have to wade through all of pioneer's droppings that contaminate every post he insinuates himself into, grunting out what he thinks everybody should feel privileged to read.  Be advised that he is a mentally disturbed ego maniac, steeped in self-importance and obviously of the opinion that what African Americans need is for him to be in charge of the race because he has everything all figured out and knows all the answers. and if he could just make them over in his image and be their leader, everything would be perfect. 👉🏽💩      🤣😂😆

 

Characters like him are who make me glad that my advanced age makes it unlikely that I would have to exist under the leadership of a messianic fool like him.  

 

i am content to simply be a spectator in the American arena, watching from my front row seat, throwing tomatoes at the zeroes who think they are heroes. 

 

I wish you well. 

 



Moving along in the conversation.....................

 


ProfD

 

 

Reparations to ADOS would provide AfroAmericans with the resources to build better communities with everything to include housing, schools, medical facilities, banks, grocery stores and other businesses.

 

If those Reparations come with EDUCATION and classes on economics, farming, how to  build and maintain educational institutions and medical facilities.

Just giving some of these silly ass niggas a bunch of money would only WORSEN an already bad problem.

 

Neely Fuller Jr. talks of Black folks who just go Reparations driving down the street in limousines with the windows down smoking dope and shooting at eachother.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kenneth

 


Blacks own more businesses today than ever check out the stats. We are better educated than ever. 


1. We may own more ONLINE businesses like those little internet schemes and scams or playing around designing software; but when I say businesses I'm talking about FOUR WALLED establishments.

Grocery stores.
Hotels
Hospitals
Auto Repare shops
Etc...

 

How many of THEM do we own today compared to in the past when we had little choice but to do them ourselves?

 


Also, when you say we are better educated than ever.  You're right in terms of an ACADEMIC education.
The drop out rate is lower and more Black people have graduated from college today than 60 or 80 years ago...but what has their education gotten them besides a lot more debt?

 

Back 80 years ago the AVERAGE Black man with only a high school diploma by the time he was 30 owned his own house, had a wife and children he supported, ect...How many COLLEGE EDUCATED Black men can say that today?

 

 

 

 

 

Black people were hurt by the change from an industrial to service economy that ruined urban areas we mainly lived in

 

FACTS

I'm from Detroit so I saw it first hand.

Those industrial factory jobs were union and paid WAY MORE in wages and benefits than these little Starbucks and Target jobs so many are forced to take today.

 

 

 

 

he elite capitalist class is mainly straight white male and cisgendered. But there are elite class members who don't belong in this configuration. Some are black men and women. That's capitalism. It can be good or awful, so we have to be engaged in politics and activist struggle. Cultural pride, creativity, community building, being a good individual, or strong families aren't a substitute for engagement to shape the politics and counter the powers that be. So much of Black Nationalism and Afrocentrism are escapist not militant or revolutionary modes of struggle for black liberation. 

 

I don't think the problem is Capitalism any more than it's Communism. I think the problem is WHITE MEN period.
It doesn't matter WHAT economic system we choose; if White men are at the top running it then chances are it won't work for our people.

Capitalism worked just fine for Black people after Reconstruction when WE had OUR OWN businesses and ran them for profit while employing other Black folks.


 

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