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What is the United Nations Doing About HAITI?


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What is the United Nations Doing About HAITI?

 

 

And, can anything be done to help the people, especially the children? I read that a Biden Administrator just recently resigned because he disagrees with the Biden administration's actions. Apparently, many Haitian's fled to Mexico and thereabouts after the 2010 earthquake and are now being deported back to Haiti by the Biden administration. And many of them were actually born in Mexico and have never been to Haiti, so obviously many of them being sent to Haiti are children and teen agers! 

 

Lately, I have been doing a little research about Haiti and I am honestly very surprised about what I have learned. 

 

Did anyone here know that most Haitians are from ancestors that came from Dahomey!?

That sounds shocking to me, initially, but then on the other hand, it makes sense because of the extensive slave trading that went on in that region. But if this is true then, my first instincts seem to also be true in that the women warriors were actually victims and mostly enslaved themselves and became victims of the very people that forced them into this warrior women culture.

 

I learned too, that the famous Toussaint Loverture's parents were from Allada and were enslaved by the DaHomey Slave Catchers.

Also, the famous Alexander Dumas' father [or, grandfather] were captured by the Dahomey slave catchers too. 

 

DID ANYONE HERE KNOW TOO THAT AFTER THE HAITIANS REVOLTED AGAINST SLAVERY THAT MANY OF THEM IMMIGRATED TO LOUISIANA!!!???

I'm like what!? I never learned this in school!? There was NEVER a connection made about the Louisiana Purchase and the Haitian revolt!!!

 

So then, my research revealed that the president at the time, President Andrew Jackson deliberately suppressed the Haitin victory that led to them being a free nation. American did not recognize Haiti until 1862 as being a free nation. 

 

But what surprises me is that because the Haitians fought so hard, it was them that became the DIRECT reason the French decided to sale the Lousiana country which comprised a vast area of land from Louisiana to the west and up to Canada around 1803. This kind of history is crazy fascinationg for me. But now, fast forward to now!!!

 

After the 2010 Earthquake that hit Haiti really bad, and the Hurricane Matthew in 2016 and etc. this country has went from bad to worse. I am only beginning to research, however, I believe that this kind of information is important for African Americans to know about. Why, I wonder, is Haiti having all of this horrors? This country is in trouble. It's like worse than being clasified as 'A Third World Country' status. 

 

Here are two brief videos that I have recently watched. 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Since 1804, the grand prize for the Haitian revolution has been indebtedness in perpetuity to France.😎

 

Oh yes! And, I just learned about that!

 

Apparently King Louis X, sent a flotilla of ships to Haiti and demanded that the slaves pay reparations to the French for their freedom and so, the Haitians did agree. 

So, over the course of 30 years the Haitians paid reparations!!! And they borrowed from America and Britian and French banks to pay reparations!

One recent college professor said that is one of the problems Haitians are having today because of it.

She called it the biggest heist in history, that the slaves pay reparations.

And, some politicians told France they need to pay it back, but most agree that France basically is laughing at such an idea. 

 

That is insane. 

But what can anyone do if some of the Haitians in power are accepting a lot of bribes and not caring about their people as a whole.

Seems like they need a better centralized government.

And the young men that are in control need to respect the older men as their leaders.

Anger and rage is NOT the answer but Love and fighting a defensive position would yield a much better outcome in my opinion.

Too much Black hatred is going on nowadays. smh.

 

Depressing.

 

What about the poor little children. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

But what can anyone do if some of the Haitians in power are accepting a lot of bribes and not caring about their people as a whole.

That is the dilemma for Black folks all over the planet.  As long as a few people are willing to be sellouts, it's easier to oppress the masses.  The system of racism white supremacy is built on it. 😎

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What is the United Nations doing about Haiti???

Why...HELPING TO DESTABLIZE IT...ofcourse!

Why would we expect White racists and their allies of color to help such a strong Black nation?

Based on my LIMITED research (because I haven't actually been to that nation yet), I believe the main problem with Haiti and the major reason it faces so many disasters is because of SPIRITUAL CONFUSION.

When they abandoned Catholicism and returned to their Ancestors and traditional African religion back in the late 1700s, it gave them the power to not only fight for and win THEIR freedom but fight for and win the freedom of Black folks all around the Western Hemisphere including the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Columbia, etc...
But some years later Haitians began accepting Catholicism and other forms of Christianity and Caucasian religions and morals to the point that many if not most Haitians are officially "Catholic"....but they still practice Vodou to various degrees.  

This leads to spiritual confusion.
You can't serve two masters.
You can't dedicate yourself to and serve the TRUE GOD and White folks god at the same time.

 

They must pick one or the other.
The Dominican Republic is doing a little better because they pick ONE SIDE....Christianity.
It's the WRONG side, but they are less confused.

If Haiti goes FULL AFRICAN again and reject all forms of Caucasian religion....I guarantee they will rise overnight!

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22 hours ago, ProfD said:

That is the dilemma for Black folks all over the planet.  As long as a few people are willing to be sellouts, it's easier to oppress the masses.  The system of racism white supremacy is built on it. 😎

 

This is so true and so depressing, @ProfD but nevertheless, I am not giving in. Gosh! What can we do!? 

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

They must pick one or the other.
The Dominican Republic is doing a little better because they pick ONE SIDE....Christianity.
It's the WRONG side, but they are less confused.

 

Oh really? I did not know this. Interesting. @Pioneer1

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 


If Haiti goes FULL AFRICAN again and reject all forms of Caucasian religion....I guarantee they will rise overnight!

 

 

I don't know about this though, because, just what is FULL AFRICAN? IMO, a lot of AFrican conflicts are based on the same confusion that you have outlined.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 


Based on my LIMITED research (because I haven't actually been to that nation yet), I believe the main problem with Haiti and the major reason it faces so many disasters is because of SPIRITUAL CONFUSION.

 

 

Oh yes! You nailed it on this one, IMO. That is definitely one of the main problems there. And when you say that the United Nations are helping to destablize it, I can understand this too, but again, you saying that the Haitians should abandoned the Catholic religion and return to their Voudon and etc. is very probematic and kind of like 'a catch-22. 

 

 

 

YES, what I mean by a 'Catch-22' is that I believe part of the 'destablization' of outsiders is that they encouraged the Haitians to practive Voudu after a while when they came to realize that the Haitians equated their ancestors spirits with the Catholic religious saints. That, imo, is part of the problem with this Spiritual confusion that you so brilliantly stated. 

 

 

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FURTHERMORE, I believe that AFrican Americans need to tune into this horror because happenings on this scale may affect other peoples as well and the whole globe, for that matter. IMAGINE if your finger represented HAITI and the rest of your body represented the whole planet. Well, if you cut your finger, it may hurt and appear to heal but if the cut was infected, then guess what, eventually your whole body could feel the effects of that infection! THAT, IMO, IS WHY THIS ISSUE IN HAITI SHOULD BE DEALT WITH ON A GLOBAL LEVEL. Although, it may take a long time, maybe hundreds of years, but I believe that this whole world will forever be affected by the enslavement of African people and if it is not addressed and dealt with properly, this world will never know peace as it should. 

 

I many times hear White people and also Black people too, say that slavery is over and Blacks today that complain about it still affecting society are just making up false excuses, but IMO, HAITI is a great example that is a complete lie! The problems going on in Haiti are a direct result of those people being severely affected by slavery. So, there needs to be a solution to affectively deal with a great suffering. 

 

I believe that one of the solutions is to understand the main problems that led to the issues today. NO, IT'S NOT ONLY THAT FRANCE SHOULD PAY BACK REPARATIONS, OR AMERICA, BUT ALL OF THE SEVEN-HEADED BEAST ARE DIRECT BENEFACTORS OF THAT ENTIRE ISLAND ENSLAVING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BLACK AFRICANS DURING THOSE PAST DECADES. They need to stop pointing the finger at each other and take responsibiity for their organization of leagues during the A.D. 1500s in the set up of Chattel Slavery targeted against the African countinent. 

 

Just like what was said about how they attacked the Native Americans here, they proverbially put one arrow of a tribe into another tribe and instigated and supported inter-tribal war, that is what they did with the Africans. They knew the conflicts and came to Africa with their idea of 'unfair trade' and gave a lot of trade to certain Africans that used this benefit to attack and kill off and oppress other Africans. 

 

[1] Not only that but, Europe committed a Bait-and-Switch government and set up on Christianity but later Separated Church and State in order to keep chattel slavery as law, KNOWING THAT THE VERY BIBLE THEY INIALLY USED SPOKE AGAINST INHERITED ENSLAVEMENT FOR LIFE. 

 

So, yes, part of Haiti's issues, imo does revolve around spiritual confustion and are not educated on the origins of the religions they practice and this is causing a great division. Most historians say that the VOUDU RELIGION formed out of the violence they endured as a result of slavery, and so, if that is true then, these Africans may need to revisit this issue and determine its origin. I believe though, it may go back much farther in time. 

 

[2] Another problem too is that these young men dominating the gangs are associating their plight with the Taliban but what they do not understand is that the east world does have a certain religious basis as well, no matter how off some may say they are in their religious practices. Those people have elder leaders that they respect. The gangs in Haiti are said to be KIDNAPPING their own people and forcing relatives to pay a ransom and in this way, they are getting a lot of funding to trade and get weapons, etc. They are taxing their own people and copying ancient techniques thinking they are right. That is crazy. 

 

[3] The weakened central government leaders are asking for outside help and for a national troop to put their boots on the ground. However, there is a great reluctance due to outside negative actions. Maybe the UN needs to ask a strong country in Africa to go into Haiti. Maybe the AU needs to be supported to help Haiti. 

 

[4] Finally, I believe, again, because all 7-European countries that formed the League of Nations back in the 1500s orchestrated against Black AFrica with their Idol religion, then that would mean that SPAIN needs to also help. Therefore, the neighboring country, SANTO DOMINGO, needs to be addressed, perhaps with some type of incentive to set up refuge towns specifically for the Haitians. Oh yes, all of them, all of the 7-leagued nations, including Spain, should be paying reparations due to chattel slavery. [1] Spain & Portugal, [2] Dutch Netherlands [3] Britian & the United Kingdom, [4] France & Belgium, [5] Italy, [6] Scandinavia, and [7] Germany. 

 

Here is two other brief and very recent videos about the pressing issues in Haiti; one video is of an Ethiopian person, though he is not speaking about Haiti, but he actually brought out some awesome points in how Ethiopia had to deal with the attempted force colonization of Italy. And he also targeted the issue of religion and how 'heretic religion' can negatively affect unification of a people. I think Haitians need to re-address some of their religious trances that I have heard about in how they can conjure up their dead ancestors to tell them what they should do and how they should conduct their lives and then forcing others to worship ancestors that they may not even be connected to. Anyway, I apologise if I am being offensive, please don't be angry with me, but I am open for understanding. 

 

Gangs in Haiti battle for control amid unrest 

 

 

 

Ethiopia the pride of Africa and blacks ... Thabo Mbeki 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Chevdove
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Such a terrible situation...

 

Where are these gangs getting all of these weapons and ammunition? 

 

We just gave Russia back an arms dealer in exchange for a sister they jammed to use as a bargaining chip (or so it seems).

 

Interestingly, the media pay so much attention to Kyrie's tweet that the situation in Haiti isn't even part of the daily discourse.  Thanks for bringing this to the fore @Chevdove.

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Chev

 

 

I don't know about this though, because, just what is FULL AFRICAN? IMO, a lot of AFrican conflicts are based on the same confusion that you have outlined.

 

By "full African" I mean no longer following the so-called Abrahamic religions and going back to seeking help from The SUPREME BEING and The Ancestors and getting in too with Spirituality and what they call "magic".

 

White society may condemn "magic" and what they call "witchcraft" but much of it got Haiti it's freedom.

They called on Jesus for centuries and didn't get free, but when they called on their Ancestors and practices that "magic" they got their freedom from the French devils within on decade.

 

 

 


YES, what I mean by a 'Catch-22' is that I believe part of the 'destablization' of outsiders is that they encouraged the Haitians to practive Voudu after a while when they came to realize that the Haitians equated their ancestors spirits with the Catholic religious saints. That, imo, is part of the problem with this Spiritual confusion that you so brilliantly stated. 

 

Yes, that's what I'm talking about Spiritual Confusion!

They mix up the African Deities and their Ancestors with these Catholic "saints"....many of whom are actually Roman Deities and they began to confuse the 2 separate groups.

 

You shouldn't venerate African Deities AND European Deities together. 
You don't even PRETEND to venerate the Deities of your enemy.

 

The brown Latinos do the same thing with Santeria....mixing Native American and African Deities with the Catholic ones in some effort to "hide" what they're doing.

No....TOTALLY reject European religion and morality and TOTALLY embrace African Spirituality and your Ancestors.

 

Then let's see the results.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

 

Where are these gangs getting all of these weapons and ammunition? 


Lol....was that a rhetorical question?

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As I just wrote in another thread regarding AfroAmericans moving beyond passivity and spirituality towards a willingness to fight and die for real freedom, nations like Haiti are examples of why Black folks all over the planet aren't willing to do it. 

 

Every Black nation that is independent and/or fought for it has been reduced to 3rd world status under the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

Those nations are relatively poor and overrun by greed, corruption and violence. Religion is the opiate utilized to keep them oppressed. 😎

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5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Where are these gangs getting all of these weapons and ammunition? 


Lol....was that a rhetorical question?

 

No, I wasn't.  But they are probably getting the arms from guys like the one we just sent back to Russia...

 

 

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It's pretty much just White folks (and a few of their allies of color) practicing more White racism distributing weapons among the people to keep up instability.

If it weren't for White folks and Arabs infiltrating Haiti and flooding gangsters and criminals with guns, the government would easily be able to get control of this situation.

 

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12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

By "full African" I mean no longer following the so-called Abrahamic religions

 

Obviously you are believing in false information @Pioneer1 Haitians are said to practice the Catholic religion and Voudun widely. 

Ethiiopia is the only country that was not colonized and the video reference I posted talked about this. 

Many Ethiopians practice the Abrahamic religion; COPTIC.

Italy attempted 2 full scale invasions in Ethiopia and the video I posted highlighted this.

One main reason the Ethiopians were successful, it was explained was that they were widely united and their religion did not hamper their goal.

 

That is the one issue, I believe will cause African people a continual problem for most, in that, they constantly attack each other and attempt to force their religious beliefs on others. 

Religious beliefs is a human right and if a person's religion gives them the right to attack others and attempt to force it on others, then that should not be allowed. 

That should be a freedom of choice. 

 

I am very pessimistic about Black Unity and this is one issue that I believe will continue to cause division; RESPECT.

As a Christian, I absolutely believe in the scriptures in that we all must unify and be ONE BODY, however, as the scriptures say, this unity will happened but it will not occur for about a thousand years and not until Black-on-Black Hatred and disrespect of others becomes rooted out. 

 

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

White society may condemn "magic" and what they call "witchcraft" but much of it got Haiti it's freedom.

 

No, that is not true. That is false information.

Papa Doc, yes, he was a Voudon but, his methods were brutal with his bogeyman guards. 

TOUSSAINT LOVERTURE was a devout CATHOLIC!!! He was successful in what led up to Haiti's freedom and not by voodoo or majic. 

 

I believe that the slaves did what they could to deal with so much violence and the magic was beneficial for them. However, the slavery could never occur without Black-on-Black violence and what is going on right now, is an effect of that same system of disrespect, IMO. 

 

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Chev

 

 

Obviously you are believing in false information @Pioneer1 Haitians are said to practice the Catholic religion and Voudun widely. 

 

Isn't that what I just said?

 

 


Ethiiopia is the only country that was not colonized and the video reference I posted talked about this. 
Many Ethiopians practice the Abrahamic religion; COPTIC.

 

They weren't colonized militarily but they were CERTAINLY colonized mentally.
The fact that so many of them believe in a religion brought TO them by non-Africans is an example of this.

Another example of how mentally colonized and enslaved Ethiopians are is how the lightest skinned Ethiopians with the most European or Arab features are often in charge and held in a higher esteem than the darker more kinky haired ones are.

Infact, many of the same ones who BROUGHT Ethiopia those Abrahamic religions mixed in with the original darker skinned population and set up a hierarchy where the lighter ones who believed in those religions were on top and the darker more African peoples who believed in traditional religions were on the bottom.

 

 




Italy attempted 2 full scale invasions in Ethiopia and the video I posted highlighted this.

One main reason the Ethiopians were successful, it was explained was that they were widely united and their religion did not hamper their goal.


Another reason they weren't conquered MAY be the same reason they weren't physically colonized....because they have the Ark of the Covenant.

 

 

 

 

 

That is the one issue, I believe will cause African people a continual problem for most, in that, they constantly attack each other and attempt to force their religious beliefs on others. 

Religious beliefs is a human right and if a person's religion gives them the right to attack others and attempt to force it on others, then that should not be allowed. 

That should be a freedom of choice. 

 

 I agree.

However at the same time, we have to acknowledge the mental damage European and Arab religions and their moral philosophies have had on so many of our people.

Just the so-called "Curse of Ham/Canaan" alone has done so much damage having many Black folks walking around thinking they were cursed to be slaves and underclass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a Christian, I absolutely believe in the scriptures in that we all must unify and be ONE BODY, however, as the scriptures say, this unity will happened but it will not occur for about a thousand years and not until Black-on-Black Hatred and disrespect of others becomes rooted out. 

 

Honestly sis, right now I'm not sure if it's even a good thing FOR all or most Black folks to "unite".

There are too many Black folks with screwed up beliefs and morals for me to unite with them.  
Their minds and moral compass has been so twisted and perverted that the best thing to do is stay AWAY from them.

 

 

 

 

 

No, that is not true. That is false information.

Papa Doc, yes, he was a Voudon but, his methods were brutal with his bogeyman guards. 

TOUSSAINT LOVERTURE was a devout CATHOLIC!!! He was successful in what led up to Haiti's freedom and not by voodoo or majic. 

 

Toussaint may have been a Catholic but HE wasn't the one who jumped off or even got the Haitian Revolution going!
He was a LATE COMER in the game.

The Haitian Revolution was already hot and rolling when Toussaint got on board and became a leader.


The Haitian Revolution start with the Bois Caïman

 

223rd Anniversary of Bois Caiman, Spark of the Haitian Revolution | News |  teleSUR English


 
A meeting enslaved Haitian  had in an alligator swamp.
There they decided to renounce Christianity/Catholicism and go back to their African religion and call upon their Ancestors for success and fight to the death to defeat their slave masters.

That was a powerful night.

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15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

They weren't colonized militarily but they were CERTAINLY colonized mentally.

 

@Pioneer1  That is just CRAZY!  You have little if any respect for Africa and it ancient basis up to this day. You continue to give credit to their positive contributions to humanity to anyone else but them! WOW!

Your respect level is insane. 

 

 

 

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AND, you are wrong about your understanding of Toussaint Loverture. 

His name would not be so well known if he had not played a major role in the organization of the revolution.

 

No, @Pioneer1 The Revolution did not occur before him but after he began to better organize the maroon groups. smh.

 

And as far as the religious aspect, you need to read what @Stefan wrote. Your understanding about this subject is so flawed. 

 

 

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Haiti needs help, but like many countries in humanity, the help it needs is beyond the means for people in the usa who want to help it, cause the usa is the problem. The american continent is the problem. 

I don't want to sound defeatist, but what many forget to say about haiti is that when black people earned its long fought freedom from usa/france/uk/spain it was surrounded by enemies. Haiti was the first country in the american continent since it became commonly called the american continent that being black was positive. From Argentina to Canada being black wasn't positive. even if slavery didn't exist in one corner of the american continent, Black people being oppressed by whites/blancos/mestizos/mullatoes was present throughout the entire continent outside of haiti. 

People forget Cuba, the closest country to haiti , didn't have a similar revolution. And black people in cuba were oppressed by whites or mestizoes. Jamaica a little farther but the same. 

Haiti's problem is, it's environment was totally opposed to one of its founding principles, black power. Now in modernity , after a long time of abuse from neighbors, how can haiti be helped from the outside? 

Haiti's solution must come from within, but it can't be from haitian's in NYC, or Black folk in the usa or some other country in the american continent still dominated by whites, talking about making it better. 

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Chev

 

Listen woman......

 

 

Stream NINO BROWN ~ DJ XCLUSIVE G2B (Audio) Produced By The Beat Cartel by  DJ XclusiVe G2B | Listen online for free on SoundCloud


I just GAVE you the facts on the Haitian Revolution!



It wasn't started by Toussaint....but by a Black man named Bookman during an African spiritual ceremony back in a remote swamp in Haiti.
They sacrificed a Black pig and abandoned Catholic and other religions that came to them from White folks and began to accept Vodoun and their Ancestors again.
 

Quote


In 1791, revolution brewed among the island’s brutally enslaved majority—inspired in part by the egalitarian ideals driving France’s own recent revolution. As the island's enslaved workers organized to burn plantations and kill many owners, Toussaint initially laid low. Having been free for some 15 years, he farmed his own plot of land in the north of the island, while continuing to oversee his former owner’s plantation. Eventually, wielding knowledge of African and Creole medicinal techniques, he entered the war as a physician. But he quickly distinguished himself as a canny tactician and a strategic, charismatic leader.

 

How Toussaint Louverture Rose from Slavery to Lead the Haitian Revolution - HISTORY


 

 

 

Now I'm not gonna sit up here and go back and forth with you over  history that already been established and verified by the scholars.
All you have to do is research it what I'm saying can be verified in 5 minutes.

 


richardmurray

 


People forget Cuba, the closest country to haiti , didn't have a similar revolution. And black people in cuba were oppressed by whites or mestizoes. Jamaica a little farther but the same. 


I'm not sure, but some say that one of the reasons it jumped off in Haiti instead of those other islands is because the oppression and slavery was so much more harsh there.
I've heard it said that the overbearing oppressive conditions pushed the people toward revolution.

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31 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not sure, but some say that one of the reasons it jumped off in Haiti instead of those other islands is because the oppression and slavery was so much more harsh there.

Slavery outside the US was different. The Europeans did some brutal sh8t but the island peoples didn't It fall in line.

 

The Europeans didn't press the issue in the same way as white American slaveowmers.

 

Instead of enslaving the island peoples, Europeans  took control of their resources into perpetuity and left them in poverty.😎 

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ProfD

I'm no scholar on the issue so I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that slavery in the Caribbean islands was actually MUCH more brutal than in the United States.

The White population was much smaller so they resorted to much more brutal tactics to instill fear and discourage rebellion.

Speaking of the Haitian Revolution, I recall one scholar saying that slavery in Saint Domingue (French name before it was changed back to Haiti) was so intense that the French used to put Black folks in barrels of human shit....seal it....and roll them down hills for punishment.


 

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5 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

slavery in the Caribbean islands was actually MUCH more brutal than in the United States.

Slavery was more brutal in Caribbean but those white folks could not sustain it. So, they left a small group to run the island nations.

 

That's why island nations are still sending money to the British monarchy, Dutch, French or whoever controls their resources. 😎

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Man, I wish I had enough money to just go down to Haiti and carve out a little spot...secure it...and BUILD.
I'd certainly do it.

I don't like swearing and taking oaths but man, if I had a billion AND a good security team.

You mean to tell me with all of the Black billionaires we have on this planet, we can't secure Haiti and make it a Black Oasis in the Americas????

Man......😣

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@Pioneer1 the answer is no to your question. White countries wealth comes from hundreds of years of dominating others. but when world war II was finished the white billionaires of england or france couldn't rebuild england or france. The USA rebuilt england or france, think on that. England was a winner in world war II and their white billionaires couldn't rebuild england, the usa was needed. 

So Black billionaires while many exist today, a government of wealth is needed to build up a country,

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On 12/17/2022 at 1:55 PM, Pioneer1 said:

 

Listen woman......

 

@Pioneer1 Well, now you resort to being insulting. Disrespectful.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 1:55 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I just GAVE you the facts on the Haitian Revolution!



It wasn't started by Toussaint....but by a Black man named Bookman during an African spiritual ceremony back in a remote swamp in Haiti.
They sacrificed a Black pig and abandoned Catholic and other religions that came to them from White folks and began to accept Vodoun and their Ancestors again.

 

Again, you are wrong. This man is not well known for a reason.

Sacrificing Black pig, yes, is an ancient custom against Black people and is a reflection of the Black-on-Black hatred that continues to be fostered amongst Black people.

These Vodoun practices were way to varied amongst different African and this is the problem today. 

Whether it was Catholicism or Vodoun, these practices are constantly used against the varied Africans that came from different countries and keeps them divided.

No. Catholicism in not the same as the Coptic religion. 

Again, if religion gives someone the belief that they have the right to force someone to adhere to their religion, then that is the problem.

 

But, since you believe that Bookman is the start and reason for Haitian victory then yes, do share.

 

 

 

 

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Chev

 


Pioneer1 Well, now you resort to being insulting. Disrespectful.

 

Ok, then LISTEN SISTA.......

 

 

 

Again, you are wrong. This man is not well known for a reason.


Just because YOU didn't know about him.....

It's 200 years later and we're still talking about him, I'd said he's well known ENOUGH...lol.

 

 

 

Sacrificing Black pig, yes, is an ancient custom against Black people and is a reflection of the Black-on-Black hatred that continues to be fostered amongst Black people.

 

What??

 

 

 

These Vodoun practices were way to varied amongst different African and this is the problem today. 

Whether it was Catholicism or Vodoun, these practices are constantly used against the varied Africans that came from different countries and keeps them divided.

 

Say WHAT????


Where are you getting this stuff from?

 

 

 

 


No. Catholicism in not the same as the Coptic religion. 

 

I know that.
However Catholicism was forced on the Haitian people by the French to make them more docile and subservient.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, if religion gives someone the belief that they have the right to force someone to adhere to their religion, then that is the problem.

 

And if those people were gullible enough to BELIEVE it....that also is a problem.

 

 


 

But, since you believe that Bookman is the start and reason for Haitian victory then yes, do share.

 

I didn't say he was the reason for the victory, I said he was one of the one's who sparked the Revolution.

There are many reasons for the victory, one of the biggest players was Jean Jacque Dessalines.
 

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6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Say WHAT????


Where are you getting this stuff from?

 

I cannot believe that you've not heard of this. I've mentioned it before.

What I am referring to, may not be a direct connection to that ritual, however, it is extremely alarming.

However, the situation at the time of the Haitian Revolution may be more important that the choice that was used to start it.

These Haitians were being treated brutally during that time, and the fact that they achieved the victory, may seem bittersweet, with what is going on right now, but it was a great victory at the time. 

 

As for 'the sacrifice of the Black Pig' ancient origins, this was practice in ancient Egypt in reference to the god Set [Seth] and later during the Roman Empire times in relation to the oppressed Hebrew Israelites. 

 

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And if those people were gullible enough to BELIEVE it....that also is a problem.

 

No. It has nothing to do with believing! 

This is no different than what is still happening today in how slave children were conditioned to believe in lies and then when they become adults are used to push the lie to support White Supremacy. 

This is the whole confusion, for example, of many people believing that Jesus is WHITE. For some, it was taught to them from birth and for some, it was a conditioning. 

So yes, it's a problem, but I am speaking in reference to FORCING SOMEONE TO ACCEPT A BELIEF. 

 

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

But, since you believe that Bookman is the start and reason for Haitian victory then yes, do share.

 

I didn't say he was the reason for the victory, I said he was one of the one's who sparked the Revolution.

There are many reasons for the victory, one of the biggest players was Jean Jacque Dessalines.
 

 

Exactly and so before him was Toussaint and later Dessalines continued of whom was connected to Toussaint. 

The point that I made was in referenct to Toussaint being a devout Catholic and I referenced the Ethiopian spokesperson in that he spoke about how Ethiopia was able to overcome the Italian invasion in reference to the problems that Haitians are having in the past and present. 

 

 

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@Pioneer1 I did some research on Bookman. I think he was important in the starting of the Haitian Revolution. Thank you for mentioning him!

However, historians say that he like other maroons were not as successful as Toussaint. 

Toussaint emerged as the successful leader after Bookman and was able to organize an incredible force and his partner, Dessalines later continued the revolution with this same organization and became victorious.  There seems to be many great men that fought against the French! My Word! 

 

From what I read, Dutty Bookman was previously enslaved and taken from Africa to Jamaica and later he was taken to Haiti. He and the Mambo priestess organized a secret ritual. Bookman was said to be a muslim who knew how to read and was punished for teaching other slaves how to read. Hence his name 'Bookman' which refers to him being a book keeper in Africa before he was enslaved.  But in the secret ceremony he was defined as a Voodoo priest, however, the speech that he gave completely contradicts that. This ceremony supposedly occurred in August of 1791 and a few months later in November, Bookman was captured and killed. He was beheaded and his decapitated head was displayed to try and stop the hope of the Haitians. The priestess was said to be the one to sacrifice the Black pig in the spirit of Ezili Danto of which is a venerated icon of the Virgin Mary of the Catholic Polish religion from which became the Voodoo version of Ezili. 

 

The Mambo, Cecili Fatima was a Biracial slave woman, whose mother was Black and the father was of course, a White man from the region where the Polish virgin of the Virgin Mary Icon stems from. Anyway, all of this history about Haiti is extremely fascinating, imo. A lot of it is new to me! But I believe that this history is vital for us over here in the States to know. Actually, I think it has been deliberately kept hidden for specific reasons! 

 

Toussaint was captured by trickery in 1802 and died in 1803. His general Dessalines continued to fight and was victorious in 1803. 

 

At any rate, this is a short video that I found that may add to the background of what is really going on today in Haiti.

I absolutely did not know how much of an impact the Haitian history has on America. IMO, it has a major affect on us over here!

And, I hope to share more.

 

THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION AND ITS CAUSES

 

 

 

 

Edited by Chevdove
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10 hours ago, Chevdove said:

 

@Pioneer1 I did some research on Bookman. And it seems you were right!
Thank you for mentioning him!


                                                   🙄That's how the quote SHOULD have read.....lol.

It could have saved you a lot of time and typing,  but I understand.

You don't have to give me the flowers, I'll give MYSELF the flowers.
 

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On 12/23/2022 at 5:23 PM, Pioneer1 said:

It could have saved you a lot of time and typing,  but I understand.

You don't have to give me the flowers, I'll give MYSELF the flowers.

 

@Pioneer1 You are being arrogant. LOL.

Earlier you absolutely showed your lack of knowledge about Toussaint Loverture and implied that Bookman was more important of which is not true. 

I can acknowledge your mention of this man, because he is important, but he cannot be compared to Toussaint at all. 

As I wrote earlier, there are a lot of information about Haiti that I believe has deliberately been omitted from our educational system and I believe that AfroAmericans need to know more about it as it affects us. However, by your knowledge about Bookman and your ignorance about Toussaint and the religious aspect only supports what I am saying. 

 

This is the very issue, too that continues to plague Haiti as well. There were so many inidividuals that were sell outs because they wanted to be individually recognized that they could not organize a concerted force, not until Toussaint manifested. 

 

I find the history about Haiti to be incredible and I am learning more and more about it. It is so fascinating. 

 

What is being reported is not all truth but part-truths. For example, How can Bookman be attributed to supporting the re-institution of VODOUN, when he was 

A MUSLIM!? His name 'BOOKMAN' [i.e., Boukman] stems from his origins in Africa as 'a man of the book'! 

Also, the Vodoun religion that is practiced by the Haitians is so very similar to Cathlocism and for this reason, many of their idols, THEY directly attribute to Catholic idols. 

THEREFORE, it is so crucial to go back, WAY BACK before Catholicism to better understand why even the African religions became so aligned with Roman Catholicism and understand the sharp difference in Roman Religion versus the Abrahamitic religion. 

 

 

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Chev

Girl,  I BEEN arrogant.......you just now picked up on it....LOL

Now if you're REALLY interested in the Haitian Revolution and the various battles and challenges they went through to gain their full independence, you should research:  
 

War Of The Knives

This was a battle between Haitians themselves over COLORISM after the French had been kicked out!

That's also where your man Toussaint really made a name for himself.

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On 12/29/2022 at 7:16 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Chev

Girl,  I BEEN arrogant.......you just now picked up on it....LOL

 

 

ROFL! Okay @Pioneer1

 

On 12/29/2022 at 7:16 PM, Pioneer1 said:

War Of The Knives

This was a battle between Haitians themselves over COLORISM after the French had been kicked out!

That's also where your man Toussaint really made a name for himself.

 

 

YES! I read a little about that! 

The class division and Colorism issues were intense!--Probably still is... 

 

 

 

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Chev

Well, I've read a LOT about it.....lol.

And yes, the colorism issues are still pretty big in Haiti but for the last 40 years or so a new twist has been added.
Now you have a lot of Lebanese and Palestinians who have been migrating over to Haiti to exploit the people and they have joined the already elitist light-skinned class of Haitians to oppress the dark skinned majority.

Kind of like how the Indians and Arabs went to South Africa and joined the Whites and Coloured minorities to help oppress the overwhelming Black majority.

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On 12/18/2022 at 9:11 PM, richardmurray said:

@Pioneer1 the answer is no to your question. White countries wealth comes from hundreds of years of dominating others. but when world war II was finished the white billionaires of england or france couldn't rebuild england or france. The USA rebuilt england or france, think on that. England was a winner in world war II and their white billionaires couldn't rebuild england, the usa was needed. 

So Black billionaires while many exist today, a government of wealth is needed to build up a country,


There were no great numbers of billionaires in the immediate aftermath of World War II.

Harry S Truman's Marshall Plan took the lead in financing and rebuilding Europe. It was budgeted at $15 billion.

France did not require much rebuilding. But Britain and Germany did. The fear was, with Europe remaining devastated, Communism might prove an irresistible lure. 

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/marshall-plan-1
 

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