Jump to content

The Illusion of Unity


Recommended Posts

 

By no means am I underestimating white power or it's destructive impact. And we know how large numbers of whites can be galvanized by racist appeals, But the monolithic notion of white unity is a fallacy. Talking and thinking about whites as a unified group ignores whites' self-perception as individuals. It also fails to take class and gender inequality into consideration. More importantly, it disempowers black people fighting for positive social change by focusing on some kind of unattainable " black unity" to counter racism and economic injustice. 

 

Because white people are so numerous and relatively well off in most ways as a group compared to black people it's easy to think they are constantly motivated by some sense of racial consciousness. Of course, discrimination against us makes it seem that way. But whites think of themselves as individuals first and foremost. They come together only to the extent that certain individuals see mutual benefit in doing so. They compete and they conflict in all kinds of ways and whiteness is never a consideration unless or until black people come along. However not all whites are racist, nor have they ever supported it. White people do things for each other out of moral consideration or self-interest not whiteness. 

 

But it's important to recognize economic inequality and the class divide. Rich white capitalists past and present have often exploited and undermined all workers regardless of race. So radical and reform minded whites have fought to tame Capitalism or Socialists have called for its abolition. By reforming the socioeconomic system (think - center left liberalism) through the New Deal America became a better place mainly for white working people. None of this excludes male domination and sexism against women. White men felt justified as men denying women regardless of color the right to vote or do anything else in society until women mostly whites fought for social change. Even in that endeavor race complicated things. Black men and women fighting against racism also challenged gender inequality. But many white women fighting sexism past, and present are racist too. 

 

The challenge is for black people who oppose racism, sexism, and economic injustice to build mass support for social change among other blacks and non-blacks. It is important to recognize that black people differ among themselves too. Some oppose activist struggle for change. They believe in adaptation or accommodation. There are wealthy blacks who don't want the economy changed. Other blacks believe in male domination over women black or white. Black people have all kinds of views. We are Black Nationalists, Socialists, Conservatives, Moderates, Democrats, and Republicans. Some of us think improvement is collective while others are individualist. Ultimately unity in some monolithic sense is not possible. 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kenneth

Excellent observation and commentary.

No, Whites aren't a monolith and are certainly divided among many lines be they religious, political, ethnic, etc....
The difference between them and people of color is that when it comes to conflicts with PEOPLE OF COLOR Whites tend to put their differences ASIDE and unite to do battle with those of color.
 

When was the last time the White Christian took the side of that Black Christian against the White Jew?
No...the White Christian may condemn and talk vile about the White Jew all day and night, but will still work with him to redline Black families and keep them out of certain neighborhoods and out of business deals.

White folks in the West called the White Arabs of the Middle East "camel jocks".....but still paid them and incentivized them in other ways to come to the United States and open up stores and gas stations in Black communities for racist purposes.

So no, Whites aren't unified.....EXCEPT when it comes to practicing racism against people of color....then they come together like Da' Five Bloods, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Thanks, Pioneer, for replying and your compliments.  The emphasis on Black Unity to counter supposed White Unity can keep us from being pragmatic or dealing with problems among ourselves. This is especially true when talking about economic issues or class. Think about it. We wrongly think about economic development in terms of buying black through service and industrial firms. Such thinking is outdated. Blacks need to be involved in growth industries like technology and healthcare where we can get anybody and everybody's money. Moreover, we need to recognize that rich black people and Capitalism isn't always good for majority of black people who are workers. Secondly, black unity can blind us to sexism and homophobia within black communities. We often talk about liberation only to elevate black men to an equal place with white men while women of both races are subordinated and unjustly treated. How many of us in the name of black unity and opposing racism gave R Kelly a pass for raping and abusing young black women?  The same thing is true with Culturally conservative Black Nationalist rhetoric that denigrates black LGBTQ people as acting white and being immoral at the expense of black families, manhood, and community. Lastly, we need to understand that white people are not all the same. Some of them past and present are allies in the fight for freedom and justice. Others can be persuaded if we are willing to make the effort. The idea of white or black unity can blind us to the possibilities for change.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

...the White Christian may condemn and talk vile about the White Jew all day and night, but will still work with him to redline Black families and keep them out of certain neighborhoods and out of business deals.

 

Interesting observation.
 

Not all white folks will do this.  Some white folks will go in and buy that house, in a red-lined location, for a Black friend undermining the racist whites.

 

Other white folks will buy houses from white folks telling them that the Blacks are moving in, which depresses home values, These same people then buy those houses and sell them at inflated prices to Black people.  Again, white folks undermine other white folks for profit, buy taking advantage of their racism.

 

Race is a motivator in so far as it is profitable.

 

18 hours ago, KENNETH said:

The challenge is for black people who oppose racism, sexism, and economic injustice to build mass support for social change among other blacks and non-blacks.

 

I agree with this 100%. This is the only way anything can change in a country as heterogenous as America. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, we need to establish who "we" are and what our goals are before we can talk about uniting with eachother and other groups.

Who are "we"?
Are "we" all Black people, only intelligent Black people, only FBA Black people born and raised in the United States?

Me personally, I'm interested in uniting with intelligent and righteous Black people of all nationalities and ethnicities.....NOT with criminals, fools, thugs, or sexually confused Black people.

 

So once we establish who the "we" are then we should focus on our goals and objectives for which we are uniting around.
What kind of society do we want?

When most AfroAmericans talk about unity, they are talking about it only as a defense and detrrent against White racism....but it goes no further than that.
Once there is no more police brutality or racism on the job......who cares about the other issues.
Time to get drunk, get high, raise hell, act a fool, etc....

Which is why I say for ME, it's about uniting with righteous and intelligent Black people from all over so we can not just fight against racism but also build a new world and a new future for ourselves and our progeny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black people of all nationalities and ethnicities.....NOT with criminals, fools, thugs, or sexually confused Black people.

Blacks are discriminated against by skin color more so than any other attribute. Since skin color is obvious the choice of criminality, sexual preference, dialect are used a s secondary or tertiary demarcation of disapproval.

 

Is Richard Pryor, Dave Chappelle, Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Frederick Douglass, Miles Davis, Alvin Ailey any less black or down for the cause because their partner wasn't  a Black women

 

I have no interest in discriminating against people who already being discriminated against for whatever reason unless they are a$$h0le$

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Delano said:

Blacks are discriminated against by skin color more so than any other attribute. Since skin color is obvious the choice of criminality, sexual preference, dialect are used a s secondary or tertiary demarcation of disapproval.

 

Is Richard Pryor, Dave Chappelle, Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Frederick Douglass, Miles Davis, Alvin Ailey any less black or down for the cause because their partner wasn't  a Black women

 

I have no interest in discriminating against people who already being discriminated against for whatever reason unless they are a$$h0le$


What in the WORLD are you talking about????

Because I said I don't wish to unite with Black people who are criminals or sexual perverts.....you assume I'm including Black people with non-Black spouses? 
Your logic is odd.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

And most White people become aware such a system exists and what the rules to it are.....around 14 or 15.
 

Correct. No handbook or proclamation required when everything is being controlled by your own folks in one way or another. 😎

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/24/2022 at 9:51 PM, Delano said:

Blacks are discriminated against by skin color more so than any other attribute. Since skin color is obvious the choice of criminality, sexual preference, dialect are used a s secondary or tertiary demarcation of disapproval.

 

Is Richard Pryor, Dave Chappelle, Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Frederick Douglass, Miles Davis, Alvin Ailey any less black or down for the cause because their partner wasn't  a Black women

 

I have no interest in discriminating against people who already being discriminated against for whatever reason unless they are a$$h0le$

 

I think you underestimate the ways in which black women and gay people face racism, sexism, and homophobia all at once by straight white men and even among black people too. These things intersect.

 

Think about it this way....

 

In the late 19th and early twentieth century there were Black men who wanted racial barriers to the vote eliminated but opposed women's sufferage the same as most white men

 

Black people have been vocal opponents in many localities of LGBTQ Rights ordinances.

 

All this occurs within a wider social context of white male domination that is racist, sexist, and homophobic too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, ProfD said:

White folks are unified in the maintenance of the system of racism white supremacy. They enjoy the privilege and benefit of it. 😎

 

Systemic racism is a powerful force and lots of white individuals help keep it in place. I think we agree on that.

 

However we shouldn't see racism as monolithic. American history is replete with examples of whites who opposed racism and worked with blacks to secure justice and equality. Think about the collective and individual progress we have made since the 1960s. White people doing the right thing  including those activists and politicians who fought the system are numerous and important.

 

I would go as far to say that present controversies over cancel culture, critical race theory,  the Black Lives Matter Movement,  and wokeness  are as much disputes among whites themselves as between blacks and whites.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, KENNETH said:

I think you underestimate the ways in which black women and gay people face racism, sexism, and homophobia all at once by straight white men and even among black people too. These things intersect.

I think I have not been clear.  Perhaps I should make an addendum to clarify my statement. Upon conception, the following is not known, gender, sexual prefernce, or nationality. What is known is colour. And Systematic racism is concerned with that unborn colour primarily. I am well aware of intersectionality being exposed to by circa 1986. Intersectionality is not an unknown topic to me. I feel that racism is just a cover for class warfare. There's a quote by a Black Women Rapper. She said being a Black Women is like being Black twice.

Blacks are discriminated against by skin color more so than any other attribute. Since skin color is obvious the choice of criminality, sexual preference, dialect are used a s secondary or tertiary demarcation of disapproval. Although it is a weaker argument color is harder to hide than sexuality or gender. However there are men and perhaps women who are sexist but not racist.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, KENNETH said:

Think about it this way....

 

In the late 19th and early twentieth century there were Black men who wanted racial barriers to the vote eliminated but opposed women's sufferage the same as most white men

In Slavery Black Women were physically abused by their husbands.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Delano said:

I think I have not been clear.  Perhaps I should make an addendum to clarify my statement. Upon conception, the following is not known, gender, sexual prefernce, or nationality. What is known is colour. And Systematic racism is concerned with that unborn colour primarily. I am well aware of intersectionality being exposed to by circa 1986. Intersectionality is not an unknown topic to me. I feel that racism is just a cover for class warfare. There's a quote by a Black Women Rapper. She said being a Black Women is like being Black twice.

Blacks are discriminated against by skin color more so than any other attribute. Since skin color is obvious the choice of criminality, sexual preference, dialect are used a s secondary or tertiary demarcation of disapproval. Although it is a weaker argument color is harder to hide than sexuality or gender. However there are men and perhaps women who are sexist but not racist.

 

Thanks Delano for responding . I  would like to hear more about your views regarding class warfare and racial unity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@KENNETHI feel that racism sexism and homophobia are all an attempt to hide a fear of unworthiness. The object of derision is attractive and has a power of the subject. So in order to balance that dynamic the subject tries to control or hinder the object. So Blacks were allowed to compete in sports not because they are inferior. It is the same with women in business, my best managers were women that could utilise their masculine and feminine qualities. I had one male manager that could do that as well. 

 

The object has a power over the subject , which creates a cognitive dissonance. You can see that when a brother's words or unsuccessful with a woman she is demoted. From an object of affection to one of derision. I feel this dynamic is in play on many different levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Delano said:

@KENNETHI feel that racism sexism and homophobia are all an attempt to hide a fear of unworthiness. The object of derision is attractive and has a power of the subject. So in order to balance that dynamic the subject tries to control or hinder the object. So Blacks were allowed to compete in sports not because they are inferior. It is the same with women in business, my best managers were women that could utilise their masculine and feminine qualities. I had one male manager that could do that as well. 

 

The object has a power over the subject , which creates a cognitive dissonance. You can see that when a brother's words or unsuccessful with a woman she is demoted. From an object of affection to one of derision. I feel this dynamic is in play on many different levels.

 

5 hours ago, Delano said:

@KENNETHI feel that racism sexism and homophobia are all an attempt to hide a fear of unworthiness. The object of derision is attractive and has a power of the subject. So in order to balance that dynamic the subject tries to control or hinder the object. So Blacks were allowed to compete in sports not because they are inferior. It is the same with women in business, my best managers were women that could utilise their masculine and feminine qualities. I had one male manager that could do that as well. 

 

The object has a power over the subject , which creates a cognitive dissonance. You can see that when a brother's words or unsuccessful with a woman she is demoted. From an object of affection to one of derision. I feel this dynamic is in play on many different levels.

 

Does that mean that conflict and unjust power relationships grow of the so called oppressor's own feelings of inadequacy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, KENNETH said:

 

 

Does that mean that conflict and unjust power relationships grow of the so called oppressor's own feelings of inadequacy?

Yes I believe so. It is also a technique used in war. You dehumanise the enemy. So your inhumanity is with justified or minimised 

And usually this is done to acquire resources or to exploit the other .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/26/2022 at 1:56 AM, KENNETH said:

All this occurs within a wider social context of white male domination that is racist, sexist, and homophobic too.

Sexism and homophobia are issues white folks would rather address instead of dealing with America's original sin of slavery. 

On 12/26/2022 at 2:13 AM, KENNETH said:

However we shouldn't see racism as monolithic. American history is replete with examples of whites who opposed racism and worked with blacks to secure justice and equality. 

AfroAmericans should not be overly impressed by white folks who appear to be allies for the following reasons to name a few:

 

1) we have no idea of their ulterior motive

2) they have consistently flipped the script to their benefit 

3) to this day our civil rights have to be ratified every so often

4) there's no real conversation about reparations. 

 

A wolf in sheep's clothing is the best way to view white folks who claim to be allies but have zero real interest in dismantling the system of racism white supremacy. 😎

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can't compare racism to "homophobia".

Most of what they call "homophobia" is quite natural; while most forms of racism aren't and goes against the natural order of things.

For example.....

It's natural for a man to find the thought of another man tongue kissing him or jamming a penis into his anus disgusting.
It's NOT natural for a person to get "disgusted" at seeing a Black man with a White woman, they have to be taught and almost brainwashed from a young age to see this as wrong in order to find it disgusting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You can't compare racism to "homophobia".

Most of what they call "homophobia" is quite natural; while most forms of racism aren't and goes against the natural order of things.

For example.....

It's natural for a man to find the thought of another man tongue kissing him or jamming a penis into his anus disgusting.
It's NOT natural for a person to get "disgusted" at seeing a Black man with a White woman, they have to be taught and almost brainwashed from a young age to see this as wrong in order to find it disgusting.

 

If black unity and ultimately black liberation are only about securing power, privilege, and the well being of straight black cisgendered men than there's nothing to stop elite blacks from exploiting or being tyrants over other black people. Not to mention the injustices and mistreatment heaped on black women and black LGBTQ people. 

 

We are not perfect because of our blackness or experience of racial injustice. If we don't recognize that then we will replace white racism  with black tyranny in any kind of liberated social, economic, or political setting. Look no further for proof of this than the all the authoritarianism that has characterized so much of sub Saharan Africa since the end of colonialism.  Look at the strife and instability in Haiti. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Black unity is not about tyranny or marginalizing or mistreating any other group of people. Live and let live.

 

Black unity and power is about being self-sufficient in all areas of human activity and dismantling the system of racism white supremacy. 😎

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Black unity is not about tyranny or marginalizing or mistreating any other group of people. Live and let live.

 

Black unity and power is about being self-sufficient in all areas of human activity and dismantling the system of racism white supremacy. 😎

 

It is a means to an end for black people as much as a goal. However nobody is perfect individually or collectively. We must aspire to help all black people not just certain ones. Moreover we have to engage and hold each other accountable while challenging systemic racism. I don't see any of this as a choice either or. We must be specific and broad to do both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...