Florida's New Year is gonna be great ... for those who hate Blacks

[Stefan]

It will surely seem as if Christmas has arrived a second time for White Supremacists in Florida.

That’s because Jair Bolsonaro, the White skinned and defeated President of Brazil, has left his country to head for the Sunshine State. This gives the southernmost U.S. state on the mainland three racists in residence: former President Trump, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and the demented Bolsonaro. According to a few news reports, Bolsonaro is headed for Orlando, Fla., the land of make-believe and Disney. 

( When you wish upon a star that every Blackie lives afar. )

like Trump Bolsonaro, refused to attend the inauguration of the man who whupped his ass at the polls. Trump snubbed Joe Biden. Bolsonaro did the same to Luis Inacio Lula da Silva.

Both Trump and Bolsonaro enjoy a dim view of Black people, no matter where they live. And both men have little problem demonizing certain women or idolizing a military that will gladly do their demonic bidding - including slaughtering the Indigenous, environmentalists, those who believe in Free Speech and of course, any kind of protester who is against their rule.

DeSantis hasn’t yet come out and announced his open hatred for Black people. But he’s sure been acting like it, whining and being disgusted at the mere mention of a historical racist atrocity. DeSantis does not seem to care much for Latino migrants either, even reaching into Texas to grab some and send them to Martha’s Vineyard.

Oh, what a time it shall be living in Florida.

I can't wait for the group photo.

Rejoice, Republicans!
 

[Troy]

As a long-time Florida resident, I must take issue

 

Florida does not exactly corner the market on harboring white racists, miscreants, and other ner do wells.  Florida is a massive state that covers two time zones and roughly 7% of the U.S. Population (basically one out of 7 Americans live in Florida).  It is a very diverse state that has a higher percentage of Black people compared to the rest of the country.

 

I've been called nigger in North Carolina and have had racists hurl rocks at me in Brooklyn.   

 

Racists come to Florida for the same reason I did -- the weather is great and the livin' is easy   Though the worsening economy is making the living less easy -- even for racists

[Stefan]

I spent a lot of time in Florida on business trips. Yeah, the weather is nice.

But what I wrote is truthful and one cannot deny it.   DeSantis' monster re-election win proves my contention.

[ProfD]

Let the haters keep moving to Florida.  That will make it easier for us to know where  they live. 

 

The south has never been shy when it comes to racism. Florida is no exception. I experienced it first-hand back in August 1977. 

 

The last time I visited Florida several years ago was cool. No racist encounters. Beautiful weather.

 

Of course, neither of the clowns were in Florida at the time that I'm aware..Orange Julius nor DeDumb. 

[Pioneer1]

Can't speak on it.
Believe it or not, Florida is one of the few states I have YET to set foot in.

I MAY have ridden through Pensacola while I was half sleep on the Greyhound bus as a teenager on my way from Atlanta to some place in Alabama....maybe....but I'm not sure.


 

[Troy]

Florida has the prettiest beaches in the country and the water is typically warm enough that you can swim all year around.  As I said, the place is diverse you have cities like Miami that rival in major US city and you have rural areas where pretty much anyone can own a home on an acre lot.

 

The wildlife is impressive from my back patio (I live in a modest townhome in a gated community) I can see a wide range of birds including bald eagles and animals including alligators and deer.  It is crazy, and part of the appeal to I feel closer to nature (but really we are encroaching on the habitat of these animals and they will probably not last too much longer...)

 

The place is super flat, so if you are into mountains forget Florida.  If you like the 4 "traditional" seasons you can forget that too.  

 

As far as racists I've be willing to bet there are more in California, Texas, and New York.  As a percentage of the population who are racist, Florida is probably no different than the rest of the country, largely because 2/3 of the population came from other states.

 

@Pioneer1 if you were going to Mobile probably. But places like Montgomery or Birmingham are too far north to have taken you through Florida.  It is worth a visit if you have never been. I've lived in West Palm Beach and Tampa.  Visit during the winter for a break from the frigid midwest.  It will be in the 80's and sunny most of this week

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

Actually we were invited a couple weeks ago by an associate and his wife to join them on their annual trip down to Florida.
They have property down in the Orlando area and go down every winter in their 5th Wheel for about 5 or 6 weeks and hibernate until the weather up here breaks.
But they're White.....lol...so I said no.

Yeah, I think it was Mobile because if I remember correctly we swept the bottom of Alabama and Mississippi to get to New Orleans.

 

[Chevdove]

20 hours ago, Stefan said:

I spent a lot of time in Florida on business trips. Yeah, the weather is nice.

But what I wrote is truthful and one cannot deny it.   DeSantis' monster re-election win proves my contention.

 

Well, for many years that is what I've always heard in that Florida was 'a racist state' and I heard this from White people.

 

Now, when I lived there a few years ago, I did not encounter any racism from any White people but I saw a lot of wealthy communities and a lot of poor areas.

 

The weather was awesome. 

 

I lived in Central Florida. Sanford, Florida and after almost a year, I decided to turn off of the main street, Rhinehart Road, one day and just drive and look at an area out of curiosity.

 

I turned on a street called, OREGON STREET. At the corner was a Kohls department store. It was a very short street and towards the end of the street on the right was a beautiful walled community and on the left was an elementary school. A few days later, I was searching the internet and stumbled across some news about Trayvon Martin, and well, to my surprise, that was the very community that he was shot and killed! It is called, The Retreat at Twin Lakes. 

 

That community off of Rhinehart Road, like most of that area was upscale, clean, beautiful, and looks very peaceful. I would have never thought that he was killed in an area like that! So, yeah, Florida has some racist people living there! 

[Pioneer1]

Well, if Florida DOES turn into a hot-spot for anti-Black hatred, you know who I'll blame for it......BLACK FOLKS.

1. This is OUR country.
We have just as much POTENTIAL for power as Whites, Latinos, or any other group.....so if we want to lay around on the couch smoking fake-weed and eating fried turkey legs instead of going to Florida and establishing a political and social machine there that goes to war WITH these Republican (and Democrat) racists and prevent them from establishing a nest there....who's fault is it?

Most of us have two arms, two legs, and a brain just like most White folks.....so who's stopping us from making Florida a great state for those who LOVE Blacks?
Who's PHYSICALLY holding us back?



2. Andrew Gillum had an opportunity to turn this around and become the first Black Governor of Florida, but the nigga punked out.
Figuratively and eventually literally it seems.
Just like Stacey Abrams, these Negroes run for office putting all of their trust and faith in White folks hoping they'll be fair and treat them correctly and when they get double-crossed and abandoned....instead of learning their lesson and going to their Black grassroots for support....they just cave in and bow their heads and accept "defeat".
That's what Andrew did.  And he's still paying the price for it.  I read somewhere that a judge ruled that whatever the hell he was charged with was going to stick and won't be dismissed.  It's sad, but he could have fought and asked Black Floridians to fight with him to take the office....but he didn't.

It's getting harder and harder to blame White folks for having the good sense to do what we SHOULD be doing.....fighting for and expanding political, social, and economic power.

[Stefan]

@Chevdove

Just because some of the most racist areas in this country sport beautiful neighborhoods, this does not mean there is no skullduggery afoot. In their desperation to make what is an ill-advised point of fairness, many forget that states such as Florida were able to develop such nice areas by using Racial Covenants, Sunset Laws and outright thuggery. 

There are nice neighborhoods practically everywhere. 

On 1/1/2023 at 8:32 AM, Pioneer1 said:

It's getting harder and harder to blame White folks for having the good sense to do what we SHOULD be doing.....fighting for and expanding political, social, and economic power.

So says the guy who wants Blacks to flee California because so many Latinos live in the southern part of the state now. In effect, this guy wants them to give up the fight to expand their political power. 

I am thrilled Karen Bass won the Mayoralty of Los Angeles. Little Black and Latino boys and girls need to know and see they are represented. Because a few of us would prefer they not even try. 

[Chevdove]

 

Sunset laws?

I need to do some research.

 

Yes, @Stefan I agree in that there are nice neighborhoods everywhere and I remember reading about how certain programs were set up to keep Black people out too.

Also, about what @Pioneer1spoke about in California, well, I remember hearing about how, Ida B. Wells was part of a movement where Black people left in great numbers due to racism. And, there is a lot of history about that too, during the Reconstruction Era.

 

But no, I don't believe that is the right thing to do in California. I don't believe that Black people should exit because of the racism. 

Today is different from those time periods and so, I think we need to rethink how to deal with the issues of today concerning racism. 

 

[Stefan]

Apologies, Chevdove.

I meant Sunset Laws. Such rules meant Blacks and other groups of non-Whites were restricted from being seen in certain towns and counties after dark. While many could work, transit goods, even toil as house cleaners, stable hands or handymen and maids in the daytime, they had to leave when the sun went down. 

It's how lily White counties, even large portions of certain states - remained all White.

Believe it or not, some locales still have such laws in place and they are enforced unofficially. 

Sundown Laws are often misconstrued with Sunset Laws because they are basically the same - when it comes to race. But Sundown laws usually place an expiration date on public study groups that use taxpayer money. The Jan. 6 Commission had an expiration date. 

How to battle racism in the future? The most important way is to stop ignoring it which so many on these forums are wont to do. 

I could not believe that some on here in the past actually claimed that there is no more White Supremacy. Which is absolute bullcrap.

Sundown and Sunset Laws were part of White Supremacy

 

[Chevdove]

9 hours ago, Stefan said:

Sundown Laws are often misconstrued with Sunset Laws because they are basically the same - when it comes to race. But Sundown laws usually place an expiration date on public study groups that use taxpayer money. The Jan. 6 Commission had an expiration date. 

 

I learned something new today!

Thank you @Stefan

[Pioneer1]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:09 AM, Stefan said:

So says the guy who wants Blacks to flee California because so many Latinos live in the southern part of the state now. In effect, this guy wants them to give up the fight to expand their political power. 

I am thrilled Karen Bass won the Mayoralty of Los Angeles. Little Black and Latino boys and girls need to know and see they are represented. Because a few of us would prefer they not even try. 

Little Latino boys ALREADY know and see that they are represented!
Latinos and Asians are getting PLENTY of support in California....from the streets to the government offices to the jails and prisons....Latinos have PLENTY of power and resource.
It's AfroAmerican power that is diminishing in California....it's been on a steady decline since the 70s.
Karen Bass isn't going to change that.
To think otherwise is succumbing to a pipe-dream.

Tom Bradley was another Black mayor of Los Angeles who was in that office for years.....did HE change anything in Los Angeles for Black folks???
No...things got WORSE for Black Los Angelinos under him.


Also, you seem to focus on Whites and White supremacy as if that's the only problem but you neglect to acknowledge LATINO RACISM and how viciously racist many of THEM are towards AfroAmericans, not just in California but across the nation.
They pose almost a big of a problem as White folks.

[Stefan]

@Pioneer1

You have little clue what you are grousing about. You do not live in California and you are too busy clamoring for Black people to move out of the state. You claim little Latino boys in California feel represented? How would you know? You talk to any of their parents lately?

Seriously, you need to rethink your mantra and stop acting as if only you have all the answers.  All I see from you is a bunch of whining. Latinos have the numbers in southern California. But they do not vote in those numbers. Because if they did they would have probably made serious inroads towards electing one of their own as Governor long ago.

You don't see Black people packing up and moving out of California, do you? That means no one is listening to you. 

And don't try to lump Asians in with Latino migrants. They have different mindsets, support groups, political strategies and are amendable to change. 

Tom Bradley was L.A. Mayor from 1973 to 1993. The fact he kept being re-elected demonstrated that the best of us have staying power. And a winning electoral coalition. But according to you, he's to blame for the current state of affairs in Los Angeles today? 

When drug gangs destroy the quality of life as they do in many states, there is little one can do especially when your law enforcement agencies become corrupted. Bradley was a big city Mayor. His main job was showcasing the glamour and profitability of L.A. living. Attracting businesses was the job of beaches and the sun. 

When the Rodney King riots broke out in Los Angeles in 1992, did you know that 51% of the individuals who ended up being facing charges for violence, looting and other mayhem turned out to be Latino? And many were young. 

Bradley was not responsible for Black and Latino gangs turning L.A. into shooting galleries. Blacks in L.A. had three intractable foes: A racist police force personified by Daryl Gates, street gangs and limited social, economic and community resources. But one guy is supposedly responsible for all of this?

No one can stop the cocaine trade. Too many want it, get rich from it and aim to gain control through it. 

Why do angry people such as yourself always blame one person? You think you can do better? Run for office or at least offer some WORKABLE proposals. 

You don't have the answers to urban decay, rampant substance abuse, criminality or job creation. All you do is whine and complain.

Black people do not need to leave California. Because running away is not a solution. It is surrender. 

The continuing fight Blacks have in L.A.

 

[Pioneer1]

((shakes head))

Yeah, I could.............point by point.

But it would be useless.

 

[Stefan]

No, you couldn't. You lack the writing talent and understanding of the issues. 

[Pioneer1]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:21 PM, Stefan said:

No, you couldn't. You lack the writing talent and understanding of the issues. 

 

No bro,  actually I COULD.....POINT BY POINT.

Just one of your statements: "No one can stop the cocaine trade"....I can easily blow that out of the water by pointing at Cuba and Castro's success.

Come on man, you give yourself too much credit....lol.
It's just not worth it to go back and forth with you like that....for multiple reasons.

[Stefan]

@Pioneer1

You do realize the late Fidel Castro ran a country that was intent on stopping those who wanted to infiltrate his nation? You also fail to grasp that cocaine is only trafficked into regions and countries where Cartels and criminal gangs can make a healthy profit.

Since Most Cubans in Cuba never could cannot match the average income of cocaine users in the U.S., it would not make sense for anyone to risk prison and assassination to eke out puny income by bringing cocaine to the island while Castro was alive. And that's the only reason Cocaine did not appear to be much of a problem. 

Maybe if you actually put some logical thought before responding you would come up with better replies.

By the way, how many Blacks in California have taken your advice and left the state?

Have most Haitians accepted your stance of shunning their birth religions and adopting the worship of old time African spirits? I mean, those spirts did wonders for Black Africans over the centuries, haven't they? Black Africa is on the cusp of world leadership in politics, the economy and respect. 

[Pioneer1]

Stefan

 

 

Let's take this slowly.....

 

1. You said no one could stop the cocaine trade.

2.I gave you an example of someone who DID stop the cocaine trade in his nation.

3.Instead of acknowledging that you were wrong, you proceeded to make EXCUSES to justify you incorrect assertion.

And this is just ONE of the reasons I don't care too much for wasting time debating with you.
Because you almost never admit when you're wrong, so there is little progress to be made.

 

[Stefan]

Answer my questions which you always duck.

And no one can stop the cocaine trade because there is too much money to be made from it. The reason cocaine was not much of a problem in Castro's Cuba is because the risks outweighed the rewards. You run afoul of the Bearded One, death is usually your punishment. But I am sure come Cubans in Cuba used cocaine because their ruler ran the trade. 

But one man actually claims that Fidel Castro himself was a cocaine trafficker. And intelligence sources agree. Which makes awesome sense. What better way to get back at his U.S. enemies than to ruin them with cocaine?

Fidel Castro was a cocaine trafficker

Now, if you want more details  ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1999/02/01/cuba-and-cocaine/378f08a2-75ea-4a6a-a07e-481a57ce078a/

Now, how many Blacks have moved out of California because you said they should?

How many Haitians have given up their western beliefs to return to worshiping African spirit deities as you demand?

[Pioneer1]

Stefan

 

Again....
You said "no one" could stop the flow of cocaine and I told you Fidel Castro DID.

Cocaine was flowing in and out of Cuba like water as well as gambling, prostitution, and other vices before he took over.
It was a Mafia hotspot before the Communist/Castro Revolution.

He ended it, cold turkey.

It doesn't matter WHY they allowed him to shut it off or why they didn't put up more resistance against him.
There could have been a million different reasons why.
As far as THIS conversation goes, what matters is HE STOPPED IT.

 

 

 

Now, how many Blacks have moved out of California because you said they should?

 

MILLIONS of Black folks have left California and HAVE been leaving since the early 90s.
I met them all through out Arizona, Seattle, even as far away as Atlanta.  
Some saw the writing on the wall earlier, others later, but most of them saw they had no future in that racist ass state and eventually split.
They didn't need ME to tell them to go....they had sense enough to get up and go on their own..lol.

 

 

 

 

How many Haitians have given up their western beliefs to return to worshiping African spirit deities as you demand?

 

Not sure.
Certainly enough did it in the late 1700s and early 1800s to win the Haitian Revolution!

They wouldn't have won it if they kept on waiting on Jesus to float down and free them...that's for sure.

[nels]

On 12/30/2022 at 1:23 PM, Stefan said:

defeated President of Brazil

I'll reluctantly refrain from denigrating your knowledge of global politics.

On 12/30/2022 at 2:50 PM, Troy said:

the weather is great and the livin' is easy

Though I haven't been on this board for a while, that's an interesting perspective.

[Stefan]

Nels,

The Governor of Florida has determined that the History of Black people has no educational value. Ron DeSantis is the dude Black people need to wary of and I said this more than a year ago.

Hurry on back to your cave of futility. You've never posted words of import to anyone except those who are trying to do us all in.

[Troy]

How is Florida different, really, than the rest of America?

 

I've lived in several states, in different parts of the country.  I've visited every state, virtually every major city, and almost every place Black people have a significant population.

 

My anecdotal, personal experience -- while still anecdotal is better than most who wanna single out Florida.  Believe it or not, I could really care less about the opinions of the uninformed.  My concern is that people are so easily manipulated by the stuff they see online they stop thinking.

 

Florida is no different than the rest of the country -- they have better weather and lower cost of living but are no more racist (rough on Black people) than New York, Texas, Illinois, Georgia, or California.

[Pioneer1]

On 1/20/2023 at 1:36 PM, Troy said:

 

My anecdotal, personal experience -- while still anecdotal is better than most who wanna single out Florida. 

I'm gonna hold on to this line for future references....lol

[Troy]

Sure tuck it away @Pioneer1 I stand by the statement. This is all subjective, but some opinions are more informed than others and in the absence of data one should go with the more informed opinion.

 

now if you have actual data to illustrate that Florida is more racist that some given city, I’m all ears.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

I'm not in the "Florida is racist or not" argument.
I think Midwestern states like Nebraska and Missouri are more racist than ANY Southern state, but....

I'm referring to you using anecdotes to support your position after clowning on me for doing it for so many years, lol.

I hope you now see how hard it is for a person to "stop believing" something they actually experienced themselves simply because "the data" dug up on some website doesn't agree with it....lol.

[Troy]

The difference is in the absence of information.

You use your anecdotes to refute facts, like the existence of different races when all the science tells us there is one race. 
 

anecdotes serve a purpose; they inform the stories that help us make sense of the world. However, they are usually flawed.
 

When contradictory proof is presented the story based upon the anecdote needs to be revised or discarded. 
 

I would not assert that  Missouri is more racist than Florida based solely on my personal experience. All i could offer is my experience and I would not generalize it to the entire population. 
 

If i did use my experience to make a generalization about the entire state i would naturally expect people to push back on that.  This is usually what i do with you @Pioneer1

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

When contradictory proof is presented the story based upon the anecdote needs to be revised or discarded. 

 

The key word is PROOF.

I think you often conflate "documentation" with "proof"...and they aren't necessarily the same.

Just because you have a bunch of stats and words documented in a book or on a website, doesn't mean they are even facts let alone "proof" of something.
But you'd rather believe THAT than someone who tells you they saw it for themselves or have been through it.

Either side could be lying.
The person giving you the anecdote could be fabricating and embellishing....but so could whoever presented the stats and documentation you trust.
Neither qualifies as "proof" in my opinion.
 

Besides, proof is SUBJECTIVE.
What may be proof to ME may not be proof to YOU simply because of your lack of experience or observation of the subject.

 

[Troy]

53 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

proof is SUBJECTIVE.

 

Proof is not subjective, that is what makes it proof.

 

Sure, it may not be proof to you because you refuse to accept it, but that does not change reality.

 

To Trumpers the election was stolen.  Proof was presented that it was not. People rejected that proof and stormed the Capitol.  It was not proof to them.  Your statements explain the behavior of the insurrectionists; they believe proof is subjective and they believe the people providing the proof are liars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

If it's not accepted for legitimate/logical reasons.....then no, for that person it's not proof.

Proof is verification or confirmation beyond any reasonable doubt or argument.
Not simply evidence in support of it.

As I type to you, I'm reading an article about a mass shooting in California where atleast 10 people have been killed.
Is the article "proof" of that?
No.
It's just documentation.  A bunch of words I'm reading on a screen.
To PROVE this is true I'd have to go to California myself and see the casualties....that way all reasonable argument will be erased.

[Troy]

Depending on the source doing the reporting I would accept it as proof 10 people were killed.   Reputable newspapers are not in the business of reporting on murders that did not occur.

 

If Alex Jones said it was actors staging the shooting I would not accept that as proof, as he is in the business of conspiracy theories and sensationalism.

 

[ProfD]

Proof is only necessary when the information is of significance or importance to whoever needs it. 

 

Legally, circumstantial evidence has been enough to prove guilt or innocence in crimes.

 

There's a case in Massachusetts right now where the husband is being charged with the murder of his wife. They will never recover her body to prove she's dead. But, his azz is going to prison based on evidence and his stupidity. 

[Pioneer1]

Troy and ProfD

 

Before we go any further.....

While sipping on coffee, enjoying a warmed slice of bean pie, and looking out the window I'm in a state of peace right now.
I usually am in a state of peace, but there's a bit of nostalgia mixed in with it because the snow is reminding me of my childhood.

But to top it off is the conversatoin I'm having with you two right now.

 

I'd like to take time to say what a PLEASURE it is to dialog in states of both agreement and disagreement with you two intelligent Bruthas on a peaceful Sunday morning. 



ProfD, like we talked about in another thread....
It's another one of those moments where you wouldn't want to be anybody else in this world BUT a Black man!

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, always enjoy the dialog around here.

 

We don't have to agree on everything. We may not solve any problems.

 

Black men should always be able to engage in spirited discussions without going to war. 

 

Continue to enjoy your brew and pie. Keep that snow up there. 

[Pioneer1]

Troy
 

Depending on the source doing the reporting I would accept it as proof 10 people were killed.  
 

And that's what I mean by it being "subjective".
It's enough for proof to YOU.
 

However having seen countless times where the news has gotten the murder count in situations like this WRONG and every day it seems they have to revise the numbers raising and lowering the count...I no longer accept their reports as even TRUTH let alone PROOF.
 

I remember as far back as the Columbine shooting where several news sources as well as law enforcement itself confirmed atleast 25 people were killed.
That number was SET

It could only go up...not down.

But low and behold it did....down to 10 or 15.

Impossible.
No way you could CONFIRM 25 deaths and then that count just magically drops unless The Messiah is there on the scene resurrecting dead bodies and bringing them back to life.
 

So the news is no longer completely trusted as far as I'm concerned.



ProfD

 

Legally, circumstantial evidence has been enough to prove guilt or innocence in crimes.

There's a case in Massachusetts right now where the husband is being charged with the murder of his wife. They will never recover her body to prove she's dead. But, his azz is going to prison based on evidence and his stupidity. 

Goes back to my assertion that "proof" is highly subjective.

What constitutes as "proof" in a court of law may not necessarily be what WE think should be reasonably considered.

Some people thought the infamous "bloody glove" with OJ's blood on it was "proof" that he killed Nicole and Ron.

Yes, the glove was "circumstantial evidence"...but was it PROOF?

 

But again, "proof" to me was actually WITNESSING him do it.

Because MY standard of proof is so high, I can reasonable see and understand why he was found Not Guilty because there was a high possiblity that the bloody glove WAS planted by a racist cop.

 

"Uhhh huh.....see that...told yall."
 

 

[Stefan]

Evidence and Proof are what different court jurisdictions say they are. We can have hard opinions on each. But those means little to the individuals who will render verdicts. 

[Pioneer1]

 

Even jurists have differing opinions from eachother of what constitutes "proof" versus what is mere "evidence" but doesn't cross the threshold.