luckylois

I much prefer ad #2. It's cooler! If you put the darker sista in that ad, I'll bet you'd get just as much traffic. She's beautiful. You can't even see the lighter woman's face. Swap the woman from ad #1 into ad #2 and see what happens.

I have found in my experience that "some" women prefer the thug-man over the "nice" man. This attraction for the thug-man usually begins at about age twelve or thirteen and lasts until around age thirty to thirty-five. Usually during the mid-thirties the light bulb comes on, and now she is ready for the "nice" guy, you know, the one that was totally ignored in high school, the smart one, the one that focused more on his academics than his "mack." The problem is that she doesn't know how to interact/communicate with the "nice" guy because all of her experience has been with the thug-man, the man with the street edge, the man with the street swagger, the man who is exciting sexually (perceived idea), but is ineffective when it comes to intellectual stimulation. There is no connection with an educated, together brother. The solution? She will, more than likely go back to what she knows best, that is, the thug-man. This type of sister can be found from all walks of life, including the "successful" ones. Therefore, most guys will just succumb to the "eye-candy," because they just get tired of the ridiculous drama and games. The majority of the Black "nice" guys will be snapped up, in all likely-hood, by White sisters, even though, rarely, a Black sister will attract one. Ironically, even the "nice" Black sister is attracted to the thug-man. What I have presented is something to think about, and ponder.

I write the following from what I have personally experienced/witnessed so I realize it does not apply to everyone, but it's another perspective to consider.

I know a lot of women and none have ever been interested in thugs. We came of age before the era of the glorified thug. It may explain problems in the 20 - 30 age range, though.

What I have encountered with men my age (40s - 50s) is that while in their 20s - 30s, they choose to remain single while replaying their adolescence. Having earned college and professional degrees, they were making good money, had their own place and a nice car. As the "cream of the crop" the pool of available women grew, and they could pick and choose. On the other hand, their female counterparts, with whom they'd shared high school and college, and with whom they had socialized for years, were forgotten. Add to that the onset of the thuggish male generation, and the pool of "good men" for these women shrank. So, a generation of eligible women was alone for the better part of their prime marriage/childbearing years. The good thing is that many of these women use the time wisely to build their education and careers. I even know a few that have adopted children.

Quick story: A man of 35 who was interested in me called me "an old B" (literally) when he found out I was 39. Eight years later, this man is still single at 43 and still very much the adolescent despite his other life accomplishments.

As for dating/marrying outside the race, I only know a few black man who are married to white women. A lot of black men date/marry Latinas, because (I am told) when seeking a woman who is "traditional" and beautiful, they have the complete package. However, I have started to notice an increase in the number of black woman/white man relationships/marriages -- especially black women dating/marrying European men -- who don't have the same racial hangups that Americans have.

Troy, the only time I've ever been unhappy with a man is when I tried to control him and he didn't want 'ack' right lol. Seriously though, I don't know why some women seem unhappy. Contrary to popular belief, I've found black women to be some of the most submissive women in the western culture. I've seen women settle for men they know weren't right for them. I've seen women allow their men to beat on them, harm the children and even bring sexually transmitted disease to them sometimes resulting in fatalities in the worse case scenario. Therefore letting a man lead them can not be the problem.

Everyone of my inner circle friends is either married or working on marriage number two or three. Personally, I've never had a challenge having a relationship with a man from any ethnic group. I did notice there was a bit of difference between having an intimate relationships with white men versus black men. After getting a divorce and until recently I didn't want a serious relationship. I perceived having an intimate relationship interfered with my definition of success and getting to understand me.

Speaking of which maybe that is the challenge - not so much letting a man lead the household but rather having a woman in the household at all. I know in my travels and position as a flight attendant - I can't tell you how many men of different ethnicity have told me - I couldn't possibly be married because no man in his right mind would let me fly around the world on my own...I always respond "let me?"

This made me think of a comment I read today on the Mad Men forum about Joan Harris, the knockout, indispensible, 1960s era ad agency office manager at Sterling Cooper Draper Price. It said that "Joan's finding the right marriage fit was always going to be problematic. She's too strong, too dazzling, too bigger-than-life for the average man. Most of the men around her know that. As for the few who would be her equal in star quality, they were scoffed up by the "Bettys" of the dating world long ago."

For those of you who don't watch Mad Men, the Bettys of the dating world are stereotypical "arm candy" wives.

Joanie did get married ... to a young, handsome doctor ... but he's so threatened by her independence that he raped her on the office floor one night.

True, these are characters on a TV show but something about it rings true with me, as I have many female friends who are accomplished but the men (even those who are similarly accomplished) choose arm candy or they stay single. Can one of you guys please explain this phenomenon?

As a Christian minister, I would like to add a different take on this issue. After reading all of the comments, I immediately noticed that God, along with the specific mandates that He has set forth concerning families in the Bible, was not mentioned ... the Black church itself has turned a deaf ear to these critical issues that has affected the Black community as well as the foundational structure of the Black family. More emphasis is placed on preaching the false message of the prosperity gospel, than the preaching of a Christology that emphasizes social justice issues that affect the African-American community.

The struggle to succeed as Black people remains an uphill climb. Many have reached the pinnacle of the mountain, but many more still find themselves marginalized at the foot of the mountain, bling-bling and all. Until the Black community gets back to God and begins to build what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., called the "beloved community," we will continue to have conversations like this.

You're right. Interestingly (but not surprisingly) God has not entered much into this conversation. I suspect it's because the role of the Black church as the primary support network for Black people has been on the decline for years. Considering the fact that we are no longer concentrated into the same neighborhoods, everyone doesn't live in a community with a Black church, we belong to multicultural faiths such as Catholicism, Episcopalianism/Anglicanism, Islam, etc., the common bond of being a Black Baptist, for example, doesn't carry the same force that it used to. My father and his family had a rich church life that extended to other relatives and socialization. However, I was not raised that way by these same people.

I am not disagreeing with you that faith should play a role. But what should it be, now that our lives are so different?

Additionally, I’m not so sure that Black women, despite the advances, are all that happy. Considering the types of books that cross my desk; a significant portion of them deal with relationships. It is already a worn out cliché that “there are no good Black men out there”.

Absolutely. There is something very special about the relationship between two people who are truly in love and who choose to spend the rest of their lives together but seeing every cultural group except American blacks having this opportunity leaves me feeling profoundly sad. There are "good" black men out there. Again, the trouble is that we are not in the same place, which makes relationships imbalanced and fraught with difficulty.

Well, Troy, this is complex as it not only involves the individuals involved but changes to the world around them. Black women benefited from two cultural shifts - women's movement and anti-discrimination laws. In the years following, if a woman chose not to have a traditional role, there were many other acceptable pathways for her. Even after the civil rights movement died down, women of all races continued to advance. However, to be "successful," black men were expected to adopt Anglo standards -- something which is not always easy, and which many men of color choose not to do. Other cultures are able to thrive without assimilation because they are not dependent upon outsiders for their means of support. On top of that, in this post-racial, post-sexist world, individuals can begin to look past "survival" and direct their life toward self-actualization. Some may say that this has transformed women into becoming selfish or "too" independent and "having no need for men." I don't agree. Women still need men but we don't necessarily need them to fulfill a traditional role. Today's black women have simply achieved a higher level on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs because we could. However, if we want to become family units again for the greater good of children, both sides will probably have to shift their perspectives a bit so that they are working toward a common goal. Men may have a hard time, though. They need other men whom they can trust to bring them to another level.