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23 November 2025
This event began 11/23/2025 and repeats every year forever
A question was raised about religion adherents of different tribes in the village, the following was my reply
hahah @Pioneer1 namaste:) never all:)
In your experience it seems black people who are , what some call, devout, gardless to the religion they adhere to, fit a lifestyle model you accept as positive. ok
At the end of the day with the tens of millions of black people in the usa alone, the experiences black people have with religions or the religious, gardless of their adherences, is a wide thing. IT isn't hard to find a black person whose had a very negative experience with someone who calls themselves devout. Now you can argue, as you suggest in your comment, that the issue is who is devout who is in the spirit of a particular religion. But, I will argue history proves that argument, while honest, one that only manifest as an unending rabbit hole in terms of results.
@ProfD
The fiscally wealthy rarely have a personal adherence of zeal for any religion... while they use the communal influence or financial halls of religious clerics and their places of worship to potent effects. The fiscally poor tend to have a personal adherence for a religion... while they rarely use the churchs halls or communal ability to improve their finances.
Since you are a Statian I can see the logic of your separation of church and state position to the religiously devout in the black populace.
But I don't think the answer needs to be exoduses from religion as much as changes into how the fiscal poor relate to religion. As any harlemite knows , harlem is full of churches, and every sunday all the black church members whose kin used to live in harlem and used church funds to aid their particular church group have a higher level of fiscal wealth, ala the Black one percent. But, the fiscal poor who will chagrin speaking ill of god and use the churches midweek, spend most of their time laboring, to make ends meet, to buy food, they don't use the church for non spiritual affairs.
The fiscal poor need to embrace the church as a place of commerce, cause the fiscally wealthy arguably, use the church too much as a place of commerce, and yes I know jesus overthrew the money changers.. but, anyway
I end with, as you are also an individualist, your solutions speak to that line of thinking. but as I am a communalist, I have to say the clerics, preachers/pastors/imams are really most to blame over members of the flock, cause they have the power and have a better crowd to influence their financial behavior or how they live through various places of worship.
And you have given me a good addiiton for an edition of the Economic Corner I am formulating, I have some others editions I have already written up completely but thank you.
@harry brown the questions of who is worse among the abused? who is worse among the inheritors of a negative culture? are valid for the history book but dysfunctional for getting results.
The question is, how do religious populaces, gardless to the religion , improve their positive functionality internally plus externally? Specifically, to the global black village how do the black populaces in what I will call the six religious zones, improve:
USa+Canada
South of the USA [Caribbean+Mexico+South America]
Continent [ Africa]
Asia [Iran to the Phillipines]
Europe
Australia+ Oceania
Blacks in Australia+Oceania , like the aborigine who are first peoples to australia while also black, don't have a religious issue simply because the abuse they have survived and are still under is quite potent. In my eyes, they are still in the enslaved phase of the Black history book. PRe Slavery/Slavery[Complete and then Jim Crow]/Integration
The aborigine is in a Jim Crow phase. Yes, they are not completely enslaved but the shackles are there, australia mocks the aborigine as a free peoples.
Blacks in Asia , like the habshi or kalo in india , the negrito who are also first peoples of asia while also black, the kokuchin in japan are in the jim crow phase. The problem with Black Asians in Asia is that outside White European power, they have to also deal with White Asian power so it is a double. Yes, they are not completely shackled in irons, but they are in late 1800s jim crow, which even by white european accounts was worse than complete enslavement. Yes even though slavery is illegal in jim crow [jim crow eras defining aspect], whites historically use legal means to make so many legal non physical shackles it is from a functional perspective harder. because while blacks can fight to illegalize slavery, it is hard illegalizing negatively engineered fiscal environments.
Blacks in Africa are in the jim crow phase, the end of colonialization was the boundary in africa between the complete slavery phase and the jim crow slavery phase. But like in asia, Jim crow of africa is hard. Because yes, black countries exist but their entire design is a jim crow. And because of that, and the fact that unlike in the other continents where an integration era will eventually come, the next era after jim crow has to be a black power phase so it is very challenging to get from a jim crow country to a black power country.
South of the USA has a form of integration. The legacy of the conquistador, the east india company, the caribbean black states, is south of the USA historically has been better for blacks in terms of opportunity, and arguably still is. BUt, south of the usa is very tied to the idea of clans, lineages. I argue if a black person has money south of the usa they will deal with less restrictions than in the usa. But, the black populace south of the USA never had the jim crow battle because they already had a form of the integration so once complete enslavement ended they were into said form of integration.
Europe never had a robust slavery phase. And because blacks are the most minor in Europe , they have a form of integration. The problem in Europe is unlike the USA which allows for individualism to bind varying peoples, European countries don't have that. And, they are also not in the same place culturally when it comes to multiracial situations. so, I argue europe is as good as it will get until the EU goes from an articles of confederation form to a constitution form. Right now the EU is an articles of confederation style so they have a union without military bite and absent the desire to bond tighter, and the USA doesn't help because Europeans like history and they can see that the constitution dwindled states cultures in the usa such that now, whereas each state in the usa was supposed to be self sufficient, they all are welfare states to the federal government in modernity so...
The USA as First People lands before 1492 was pre slavery, from 1492 to 1980 in which the usa went from white european colonies to indepenent white european colonies in a egal union was the slavery era [ complete from 1492 to 1965 jim crow from 1965 to 1980] and then integration which is the only phase in which the usa existed at the beginning is from 1980 to today.
So, what is my point? any slavery situation deletes the discussion between variants of black christians because black people are enslaved. So, of the six regions that leaves three.
USA+Canada
Europe
South of the USA
Now in those three regions where does religion sit?
In South of the USA , religion is powerful. Religious communities have real power. The separation of church and state does not exist, don't let anyone fool you. The zeal or fanatacism possible in South of the USA is the kind that burns the vestial virgins alive, if you know your Roman imperial history. So I will make south of the USA exempt from your argument, not cause black people are enslaved, but because the potency of religion is too strong to treat like something that can be easily bent or allow for peaceful discourse.
In Europe, the french would say the religion of the state has replaced religions and this is a parademographic truth. part demograph, image of the people, truth. what do i mean? The sad reality of religion in Europe is immigrants brought a fervor to religion that has hurt the religion of the state. One of the most negative legacies or heritages of the white european imperial era which I argue we are at the end of is the religiosity in humanity. White european empires [muslim + christian] forced religion onto those they conquered , used religion to control those they conquered, even before they conquered them or after they lost total control such that religion is embedded in many human populaces. Such that when they immigrated to europe, they were never going to join the religion of the state. Now, in time I think the religion of the state will win out, but it needs more time in europe. to that end, blacks in england and france whose bloodlines were before the second white european imperial war commonly called world war 2 tended to mulatto themselves such that they are usually disconnected to the post world war 2 immigrant populaces whose quantity allowed for a maintenance of phenotype. So in europe, the equivalent to Black DOSers are smaller in quantity but also have become a mulatto demographic. they are like the coloreds in south africa, not white or black but at this time their own branch. So the religious of the modern black immigrants are only amongst themselves , they don't have descended of enslaved variant in Europe of any significant size.
LAstly, that leaves the USA:)
So after eliminating three because black people in said regions are still enslaved. One through the religious environment not allowing for a religious tolerances. One through the lack of a comparable Black Descended of Enslaved populace, it leaves the USA+ Canada. In the USA + Canada who are worse adherents of religion Black Descended of Enslaved of Black Modern Immigrants post 1965 ?
Honestly I don't think either can stand on a hill above the other. But how can both improve , I have some ideas.
What they both have in common is a big place in their community.
The reality is the Black 1% in the USA today are tied to churches. It isn't an accident that Obama was a member of a church in his rise. Nearly all Black DOSers or Black people with influence in the DOS part of the black populace in the usa has some ties to a black church.
The reality is the Black 1% in each country in Africa are tied to religious groups. Every knows if you want something done, go to the religious groups in any African country and that will help gets things quicker than the fiscal marketplace. Build a church, build a mosque and the pastors or imams will find allies for your cause through the bureaucracy of the country.
It isn't an accident that Malcolm + MLK were never the leaders of the most prominent organizations representing their particular religious molds: the nation of islam + the southern black christian leadership conference.
IT was because malcolm + MLK had a pan black view to the black populace even as men who were both preachers to a particular religion, even though their backgrounds were quite varied. MAlcolm was the son of a Garveyite Christian Homesteader. The Black Homesteaders were about owning land, but also isolation from whites. Not total separation but isolation, they didn't trust integrated communities, and the Garveyites were the best black financial movement in Black history in the USA or the white european colonies that preceded it. So Malcolm came from a pan black communal financial independence heritage. The nation of islam was and is an isolationist religious group within the black populace. If you are not a member of the nation of islam, even while black, the nation of islam probably will not help you.
MLK was a nepo baby, the son of the son of a preacher, the wealthiest black family in the local region. We blacks forget that the black church in each black community in the the usa was usually the fiscal center or fiscal wealthiest. Adam Clayton Powell jr, Abysinnian BAptist Church has the oldest Black money in harlem. Their eldership is a very powerful group. Remember the elders of the Abysinnian Baptist Church told Adam CLayton Powell jr who was the son of a preacher who was the son of a preacher at the same church that he had to stop his wife Hazel scott from touring and making more money than him and even though he was a member of the house of representatives, he did what they said and hael scott... battled but eventually gave in to the pressures. But MLK gardless of his background, didn't embrace the bootstrap, I got mine get yours, blacks are hurting blacks more philosophies that many or most black pastors had and maybe still have today.
Sequentially, MAlcolm nor MLK were ever head of the most important organizations in guiding the larger religious communities they were the face of.
So, I see two issues with Black religious groups whether Descended of enslaved or modern immigrant in the USA.
1. They have to both be about Pan Black, helping another black person has to not be contingent on them joining your church or mosque. ... I will even add the Black Jews as another who have a very proselytizing position. When you look at Historical Black Colleges, or the financially wealthy black churches it is clear, they don't mind helping black as long as black is a member. That has to change, and change from within... so...
2. They have to also be brave. I haven't yet found the list of black church leaders who voted on what the black church should emit to the larger black populace in the fist few years after the war between the states ended. I heard it was one vote that led to the black church going nonviolent, but the historical value is clear regardless of the exact names of the people or their scenarios. The stance to integration the black church had since 1865 wasn't the most positive functional stance black people needed before 1980. I argue the homesteaders strategy was the most positive functional stance for the black churches to take pre 1980, but...I also know that Frederick Douglass , Ida B Well and others weren't keen on homesteading. They wanted to integrate. and so it was an internal battle in the black populace and the black side that favored what was safer about whites won over the side that favored what was better for blacks. Nothing is easy, it is cheap to judge from 2025 on 1865 so I will not suggest cowardice or the simplicity of hindsight on them. But, the results are here. The black places of worship have to be brave. And lets be blunt, the history of the USA proves, many Blacks or non Blacks in the USA talk a big talk about adhering to the law , and bootstraps until they are financially needy and then they show their true colors and kill and cheat and harm many others for their sole gain. And if they don't get caught and find financial footing go right back to their adhering to the law feces. Again, The black places of worship have to be brave.
I never forget all sharpton saying that when he started his movement various black groups came about looking to swing him their way, he chose the nonviolent integration path through influence from coretta scott king, but to his credit he didn't say the other paths were wrong, he said he made a choice.
URL to comment
https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12056-african-christians-african-american-christians/#findComment-77851
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23 November 2025
This event began 11/23/2025 and repeats every year forever
The 2,000
I don't know if Schrumpfts 2,000 dollar check will come in BUT I do think this is a perfect chance to talk about what happens if it does happen.
For example
New York City has a possible three million black folks. Let us say, a third are children. so, two million adults.
If each adult gives one dollar of their $2,000 that is two million dollars. Now what does the black populace in NYC need?
Maybe they could vote on it?
Now before you get excited lets be honest, few have the clout to get that many Black adults in NYC behind an initiative. the tribal issues exist and it is simply not easy.
But, the idea has wings in a lesser way.
Any black person in any black group , for example
the black members of one mosque
the black members of one church
the black members of the party of abraham lincoln in one city
the black members of the party of andrew jackson in one city
the black alumni for any college in one city
can all pool a single dollar together and do something with the collected funds.
To what end, you will need a voting system, where people who placed a dollar get the chance to place their desired collective action.
And then have a boring, long but very even process for each pooler's collective action through a simple yeah or neah on the action from the entire poolers body, so each idea gets to be voted on by every member, yes or no.
The idea that won the most yeahs gets done. If a draw a the top. Another round of voting where each idea gets voted on , yes or no, by each pooler.
If two rounds go with the same draw result, then the poolers who made the idea, get to amend their idea.
And vote again, the added details should lead to an imbalance and if still a tie, amend again.
Yes in a better scenario , someone black with enough connections calls for a million man march and millions of black men go to this place and each leave a dollar and then vote in a truly even way to use the money. But the conditions don't favor that. But, i think every black church or mosque can do it. And even if the results are small the real goal is for black collectives to do something...
KWanzaa is coming up and a tenet is collective work and responsibility.
The timing couldn't be better.
PArtially Inspired by this dialog
https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12056-african-christians-african-american-christians/#findComment-77851
POST URL
https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/12059-2000-million-people-marches/
PRIOR EDITION
https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/586-economic-corner-27-11122025/
NEXT EDITION
https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/605-economic-corner-29-11302025/
COMMENTARIES
COMMENT
@ProfD
Well concerning my suggestion in the original post, the needs can't be identified first cause the money is reliant on an unknown. The organization can come first and then if the money comes then, the gathering of funds, ala trust, and then those who have placed funds in the trust can vote, ala what I stated in the larger post, I don't know if you read it.
but that is the point of Universal BAsic Income, it is just welfare, just expanded. Consumerism isn't evil, it is what the usa has always been, starting wiith the white murdering colonist. Remember, the british colonies had become a huge buyer, consumer, not a producer, but a consumer. the best producing colonies were in the caribbean with over 90% black populations which led to them all having a different phenotypical history to the english colonies n north america, having a white european populace , ever growing, became big consumers. I recall france did stimulus checks and it was all used, the french were wiser in that they gave guidelines for where to spend. but the usa from a financial philosophy perspective historically likes to allow a freer market, that is how financial cheating and other things can thrive, it is up to the individual in the usa, against france's communalist, government guided economy through the fiscal capitalist free market.
@Pioneer1
nyc 80s white businessmen's fiscal culture isnt about planning, it is about shark hunting, short term gains.
shark hunting is buying things, breaking them up and selling them into the market, crows work. that is what the socialist financial models never have. This is why too big to fail was huge, cause the usa did a piss poor variant of socialism in saving the banks. they saved the banks like in a socialist model but unlike a socialist model didn't demand they plan, so the banks haven't improved.
And short terms gains isn't about seriousness, in schrumpfts case they are wild gambits. they shake things up which was his original premise and I don't he has ever left that position.
I apologize for confusing you. This is a one time thing, but I think as this is the economic corner. that if he succeeds this is a huge step to universal basic income becoming in some form or fashion. Cause if he can do it once, he can do it again and the next president can as well and with the executive order culture reaching new heights, all the precedence is present for it to become something that happens at a greater frequency.
well... gimmick, the usa is over three hundred and fifty million people. half of that is one hundred and seventy five million so if that is the count of adults
two thousand multiplied by one hundred and seventy five million is three hundred and fifty billion dollars. I don't see 350,000,000,000 as a gimmick.
I think you and Profd have a very low view of others financially, that I don't have.
I never forget one winter past, real cold, and a homeless person asked for money and I gave it cause i had it to give. And a black person of you and profd's philosophical race said I shouldn't have did that cause that person will spend it on liquor. And I replied to them that i didn't give the money as a test or because I judged or critiqued them in any way, I gave the money because I could and I wanted to, the way in which they use it is up to them, and considering it is cold, I think it wise to warm your belly with liquor if you live in the cold.
I have always found the voice of black people like you and profd who chime in that helping others, especially black folk, shouldn't be done, to be very ugly. If you don't want to help other black people. Don't. I have no problem with that. But chiming in that people shouldn't be helped because you feel they are unwarranted based on your critique of them or your evaluation of what they will do... well ok. You two plus the many other blacks I have heard do it are free to do it, I have no problem with none of you doing it, but it is an ugly act. That kind of talk in the village needs to be stated for what it is, ugly.
I don't think so, like the stimulus checks this is meant to go wide. I will say this, SCrumpft wants this to go wide, I Think the problem is the congress... the congress in the usa is a mess in terms of what is produces legislatively. IT rarely is well constructed and all to often has alot of dysfunctional complexity to maintain agendas against the purposes of the laws.
I think many of the limits and exemptions may happen but largely because of two things
1. the multipheonotypical naysayers to UBI. For some reason many in government fear UBI. I have listened to their arguments and none hold water. The non black naysayers talk about the merit of work but the usa wasn't built on the merit of work it was built on murdering others for land and enslaving other human beings. the northern colonies were extremely poor compared to the southern. the northern colonies were the most eager to cede from the english empire as they were poorest in north america+caribbean in terms of wealth making and could use to not pay taxes to england, but virginia to the carolinas were only interested for the opportunity to avoid taxation and gain more money. Hard work had nothing to do with it. The black naysayers talk about their pseudo prescient view that people will spend the money negatively which has no basis in truth. All the people in the usa who had home bills to pay or children to feed spent some or all of each stimulus on bills and care. homeless and other very fiscally poor people don't have homes or others to care for usually, so they spent as they wanted. but commerce is not bad, usa business retained all that money so it wasn't wasted it was fueled right back into the economy of the usa. which is the point of welfare, the impoverished get to feed themselves , the market gets fuel.
2. the donkeys, the part of andrew jackson were the ones who stopped the stimulus checks from continually coming. They felt it wasn't feasible which is interesting cause the donkeys love government spending. The problem with stimulus checks is the donkeys can't use stimulus checks for favors of big firms. the thousands to millions of homeless people getting stimulus checks going to the liquor store, buying a sandwich , maybe a new pair of shoes isn't influencing big business through government spending. But spending money on the affordable care act, which then goes to insurance companies, is an example of how to influence the big firms. So I can see the donkeys trying to stop it though with the shutdown result I imagine a number of donkeys may disregard schumer and others which will make it easy to happen.
COMMENT
@ProfD
Even point, our experiences are different, we are two strangers, you don't know me and i don't know, we both have levels of assumption ,but our experiences have clearly led to varying perspectives.
par the course, I dont' think so. when a person says that giving money to another person will be wasted in their opinion and they are opposed to it, even when the money will not be there own, I see my position as in even response to your words which are said similar.
@Troy
well the post wasn't about what individuals would do but what will a group do , each a portion of their funds. Now if either had said they wouldn't put their dollar in the pot to the stated concept then fine. I have no problem with that. But that wasn't an element of their discourse. It was
from Profd The net benefit is zero especially if folks are going to spend it on BS instead of investing it in something that actually makes more money
from Pioneer Low intelligence people are easily "bought off" with cheap gifts and trinkets, while more intelligent people look at the LONG TERM aspect and what offers the most benefit in the long run.
I think my response was even to both. What does either of those projections serve a group action as I suggested?
And I will be blunt, I have been blessed to be around many types of Black people, various generations, various religious associations, various language types... being a black kid in NYC depending on where in the Black woods you live can be very open to how varying black people can be. And so I have always heard black people talk like profd + pioneer when it comes to the qualities of other black people or when it comes to how other black people behave from their view, when it comes to how other black people whom they view lesser than or negatively in some fashion should be treated. and... I have never cared for it. I have also always heard black people not talk like profd + pioneer when it comes to said similar values or perspectives or judgements.
Many black people are not going to act or behave the way any one black person thinks, but when a group action is called, that isn't just about a black individuals views, or when one sees another black person helping another black person, that isn't about what said one would do, it is about two others.
And I have witnessed black individuals in a group offline, chime in just like those two, when all in a group were asked to help and the projections of the philosophical peers to profd or pioneer offline were... didn't help.
You think UBI will be a distribution of wealth? I don't think so. It is welfare, expanded but welfare. Like the stimulus checks that money will mostly go into paying bills.
well, as the discourse in my post in this forum have proven, even a small set of black people can't even come to a collective accepted position on what reparations is defined as for Black DOSers let alone how it shall be implemented. Are Black DOSers owed reparations? 100% historical fact, financially. Are reparations that Black DOSers owed beyond money? 100% true too. But, absent collective acceptance , the Black DOS populace in the usa can's decide what reparations is, and it has to be decided on first before it can be implemented. It can't be what Profd wants or pioneer wants or Rich wants or Troy wants. It has to be what the group wants.
And thank you Troy , cause this economic corner, outside my intentions has reinforced the truth of Reparations problems in the Black populace in the USA.
If four black men : me you Profd Pioneer have this much collective unacceptance on financial matters, how can the tens of millions of black people in the usa find a collective acceptance with reparations?
@Pioneer1
whichever answer is the worst in your mind, pick it.
COMMENT
@Troy
but in the testing program out west for the UBI , i forget the name of the town and i think it even has a black representative, years back at least, the UBI doesn't work by distributing funds, the government prints the money and gives it. The US Military allows the USA to print money and not worry about collection.
@Pioneer1
not based on your own definitions but if another doesn't share your definitions then yes.
I have never said or felt i have all the answers, if i did why communicate in this very forum. But, based on how black people like me and others define things, black people like you or profd are wrong in this case. I have publicly admitted you or profd have spoken truth or generated erudition before.
I didn't refer to mamdani. I confused you and I apologize. when I spoke of group action I wasn't speaking in reference to him and I am not a mamdani supporter.
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