Do Black DOSers and those not Black DOSers comprehend the uniqueness in Black DOS heritage in the usa or elsewhere?

 @ProfD 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Violence is a path to freedom and power. Those who want it badly enough will do what they have to do.

never forget, the majority of Black leadership from the late 1800s, rightly or wrongly, has always emphasized that nonviolence is a path to freedom and power equal to violence and guided the black masses in that way. And the black masses in the usa, the DOS forebears mostly embraced that, rightly or wrongly. 

And always remember profd, I know i say the following a lot, but it seems to me many black people don't cognize the following, when the usa was founded most Black people were against the creation of the USA. 

Maybe I should rephrase the DOS heritage in the USA has always been a duopoly. But the majority in the past and I argue, absent some polling proof, still in modernity an anti white + anti statian/usa . The minority was in the past and I argue today, pro integration+pro usa. 

What is my point? Black people and I think Pioneer is a clear example of this have a problem embracing the uniqueness of Black DOS heritage in the USA. We are not from a willing immigrant peoples, we are not a first peoples to these lands, and we have historically hated this place or the white people in it. 

I don't think that vibe has ever left. And so in that context Black DOSers have done brilliantly in the usa , in a nonviolent context, because I argue most of us really don't care for this place.

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

Violence as a form of self-defense is absolutely necessary when diplomacy fails.

yes, but look at the history of resistance. Haiti won their freedom but it was from a violence larger than self defense. Ireland won their freedom but it was a level of violence beyond self defense. What peoples in humanity in an impotent position used violence as self defense and actually won? who? 

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

Several forms of post traumatic stress disorder PTSD) to include cognitive dissonance seems to have been passed along and ingrained in the psyche of the descendants of slaves.

I don't think so as I said earlier in this comment, I think it is a simpler answer, but one that cuts far worse. Black people's heritage in the usa is to be divided in terms of the usa. PRofd , think on the minority of free blacks who fought to create the usa, and then think on the majority of free blacks who fought to stop the usa from being created. Think on those two groups. That is serious friction. No bridge can bridge that. Remember, these are two peoples who are part of a larger minority in the black populace in the european colonies called free blacks, the majority of black people are enslaved who slave revolts prove only had two things in mind, kill whites and escape as far as possible. Consider the two groups of free blacks. Think about the free blacks fighting for the creation of the usa. Think about them. No constitution, no congress, the majority of white people have publily said they support enslavedment of black people upon success so the black people fighting for the creation of the usa are fighting literally for an idea. They are fighting for their present or a guarantee, they are literally buying into a philosophy, that the usa will get better, but it first has to start.  Think about the free blacks fighting against the creation of the usa. think about them. No country to run to. no land to escape to, the british belatedly, not initially promised them freedom but never the larger black populace. So these are black people fighting for a status quo that will keep most black people enslaved in the usa, thus initially the black loyalist are fighting to upend the plans of the local whites. This is revenge.

So on the one side you have a free blacks fighting to get revenge against a personal foe, and on the other side you have free blacks fighting for a unproveable belief.  

It isn't PTSD it is a heritage that many Black DOSers parents never explained to them because it isn't simple or pretty or analagous to any other in the usa. 

Remember, Black DOSers in the USA history timeline had four parts, and they don't match whites. 

1. Blissful Isolation [most of africa was to far away to be meddled in extremely so only distant traffic with europe or asia, Black DOSers free forebears from ancient times live ]

2. Abrahamic slave period[ islam first and christianity second spend centuries making the continent of africa a slave traffic den, black dosers first enslaved forebears are forced to the usa and elsewhere  during this time and their descendents remain enslaved until the next phase ]

3. the laws of Freedom [ in the usa it is the end of the war between the states and the 13th amendment, in haiti it was earlier with the victory of jena jacques dessalines, in brasil it was later with the golden law. but all black dosers in the american continent have a law of freedom date, where their first taste of freedom in some fashion exist ; in the usa , this period ends with jim crow ]

4. the second phase of freedom [ in the usa it is the 1980s. jim crow has finally died enough to not be a factor in a majority of black peoples lives. from the 1980s to now is the second phase. What will determine the third phase? we will see. in the caribbean it is varied, in haiti their second phase stated  earlier and had a negative tone with the suzerainty to the usa, but in jamaica. in jamaica it started with the commonwealth period ]

See the difference, it isn't ptsd, it is a historical reality that Black DOSers are not along the same historical line as whites or non black DOSers in general. And I think many black people are in denial or were never educated properly by their parents simple because the truth was painful. As finding your roots, the show,  proves, the usa is full of people, of all kinds, who rarely were told the truth by their parents and the reasons aren't an accident. the truth rarely gives the answers that make you fee better. why pioneer and many black people like him are so adamant that the usa is the home of black dosers, because if the usa isn't, that is a frightening reality he and i think many black dosers have always dreaded to cognize. 

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

suggests that Black folks have found a comfortable place within the system of racism white supremacy.

It doesn't suggest comfort, Black people have never been comfortable in the usa. The black lives matter protest proved one thing, the youngest generations of black people in the usa  are not comfortable. Now are they willing to suffer ? yes, but that is black heritage in the usa, again. Black people today suffer but we don't suffer as bad as in the past, that is the improvement. does it mean we are comfortable ? no! profd, that kind of talk i argue criminalizes black people for convenience. We are not comfortable, we are angry. but we are used to dealing with pain. that is the Black DOS heritage. I know it isn't as glitzy as starting businesses with zeal  or immigrating with dreams, but it is the truth. 

Black DOSers have always had two camps in our populace concerning the usa and both were extremes, largely because they were forced to be. And that heritage, yes Black DOS heritage clearly needs to be embraced more cause we don't seem to use it enough in discourse. 

Pioneer says black people regardless of anything need to embrace the usa which insults the majority of Black DOS heritage, centuries old heritage. 

You profd, suggest black people are happy, which insults Black history in the usa at the least, because we are willing to suffer and survive, which is part of Black DOS centuries old heritage. 

In conclusion, I have said it before. I have never liked the usa or felt myself apart of it. But, I do comprehend Black peoples history in it. In a blunt way. Clarence Thomas exist in the heritage of black people who were willing without any guarantees of freedom or any proof of a better tomorrow to fight for the creation of the usa next to those who owned them. There have always been DOSers like that and always will.  Assata Shakur, rest her soul,  exists in the heritage of Black people who fought even as a minority populace in the black populace in the usa against white people and the usa, like the black loyalist, who like her died in a far away place never seeing their dream fulfilled. These two groups have no merging place, no bridge can be made. 

so, when you speak of black people being comfortable, who are you talking about? black people like assata shakur? they exist today. you aren't speaking of people like clarence thomas because black people like him have always viewed the usa as their home, even under oppression. ala Frederick Douglass. Douglass was enslaved saw white violence annihilate black people, yet he embraced the usa wholeheartedly. And as he said in his speeches [ https://aalbc.com/tc/blogs/entry/357-frederick-douglass-our-composite-nation/  ] the potential is what he believes in. And for him the potential already has the structure in the constitution. 

When Pioneer speaks of the USA being Black peoples? is he speaking about the usually trickles but sometimes flows of black DOSers who leave the usa every decade from when the usa was european colonies? is he speaking about some from the exodusters , who wanted their own state? and oddly enough he sounds like frederick douglass, who also couldn't accept other black views to black life. Douglass like Pioneer has decided all Black DOSers are Statian/american regardless of how they feel about themselves? 

I know I have said everything time and again in this forum, but I only do it because i think it matters. Black people, all of us, have to start speaking from our history. Stop speaking of us through the views of others. We are not the black people from nigeira or ethiopia who all came to the usa willingly. We are not the white jew who was never financially blockaded from anything in the usa. We are not the white asians who similarly have always been allowed to own businesses in the usa, plus were never enslaved. Black DOSers are unique. A negative uniqueness? true, sadly. A negative uniqueness hard for a black parent to explain to a black child without lying or absenting the truth, trying to guide that young life to embrace the usa or their non black neighbor positively? yes, very hard. A negative uniqueness hard for non blacks who don't have the same problems to cognize or make positive room in their plans for while the populace of the usa becomes ever more mixe? yes, not an easy table.

But it is the truth. Black DOSers can choose to be Statian, but we can choose not to be. Neither is wrong or right. Black DOSers have a heritage of suffering, which was earned by having to suffer alot. The native American has suffered the most and yet has never once had a group try to truly hurt this country. The native american isn't comfortable, neither are DOSers but both have survived a long time in pain, it teaches you to deal with it in ways, other people of color, can't. That is why , white cubans in florida are who they are. Why chinese americans are who they are? Cuba has the highest literacy , the best health care system and white cubans suggest it is hell. All because Fidel took their homes away, some of their lives. But they haven't lost their language, their culture and were mostly allowed to leave freely. imagine if white cubans had been enslaved and had their culture blockaded? Chinese in the usa call china a bad country for not having elections. china has more female business owners than any country in humanity. china is second only to the usa in financial potency. the chinese americans freely came to a country that used a war as a cover for an experiment on high powered weapons on asians who live pretty close to china. Imagine if the chinese americans was enslaved. Yes, Black DOSers are used to suffering in the usa. sad but true. We don't crack under pressure like other non white europeans , people of color. Look at the news. As white europeans in the usa tighten the immigrant noose, more and more immigrants are unraveling. Can't take the heat. Black DOSers are used to far worse than what they are growing through. 

I don't care for the condition of Black people in the usa, but I comprehend it. I ask all of you to comprehend better Black DOSers village in the usa. Not what you want from it, but comprehend it. Comprehend how black people have guided themselves today, which you guys rarely ever say. It isn't about the whites. Today it is about Black people, but how we manage ourselves from over one hundred and fifty years ago. 

and I end on an even keel. Rememeber like minded black people. Profd , @Pioneer1 I ask this of all in this forum , time and again. 

Find like minded. We three are not like minded. yes, we all want black betterment, but 99% of black people want that. But the definition to that betterment, the path is not the same, and let's embrace that. Most whites in the usa ended up supporting the creation of the usa with a minority not. but black people had three groups, not two when the usa was founded, and two of those groups were opposed to the usa or whites in general. And no, time doesn't erase as some humans foolishly suggest. Hell, ask the white jew about the power of time's erasure in germany. White jews had been in germany since the time of Charlemagne. yet, white christians in germany clearly were not persuaded by time to find some common ground. So why should black people expect our heritage of trivision, not division that is two trivision is three, go away because of the quantity of black people in the federal military or the historical note of a black president. It doesn't work that way. Find your people fellas, and I wish you the best. I really do. And I wonder why you haven't found your people. What are you doing wrong that you don't have a better black group around your views. Are you not looking? Are you only complaining? Are you not willing to make hard choices? 

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