Anonymous

Of course "Snooty black folk" (especially the book reading variety) are put off by bodacious

"unruly" women like me.

Okay now THAT made me laugh - out loud. That's really all I had to say. Didn't feel like playing the lurker role and keeping my giggle to myself.

Okay...okay...I'm feeling some kind of way and I need to confess.

I dug up the book The Coldest Winter Ever, and I started reading it tonight. And I couldn't get past the first chapter. I tried. I really wanted to finish it if for no other reason than that I said I would. But I guess some things do change. Back in the day, this book grabbed my interest right from the moment Winter describes her own birth...and now...

Well, I'll just say that once I realized that I don't really have to read it again, I opted not to. Moving on.

This was truly an unexpected experience (or maybe I should say non-experience). For those who love the book, I can relate because I once loved it too, even if not enough to dive into heavy discussions about it.

I guess the things that annoy me now weren't factors that I noticed when I was twenty. It hardly seems fair to say that something "annoys" me about this book, seeing as how I didn't make it out of the first chapter. Nevertheless, there were very specific things that jumped out at me immediately and caused distractions to the point where I put the book down. For example, the tense switch-ups really threw me off early on. I couldn't tell if the author was doing that on purpose or if there were editing issues. Further, Winter, the character that I remember so well, seems much more simple-minded now than when I read her story back in the day. She is not likeable enough for me to find out anything else about her. Again - I only made it somewhere in the first chapter. Maybe it gets better. I don't know.

I thought about picking up the book that Cynique mentioned (And it Goes Like This), but I decided not to. I never really became a fan of street lit. The Coldest Winter Ever was the only book I've ever read that had a story line involving the drug game (oh, my bad...and White Lines by Tracy Brown was the other one). So two books. That subject matter didn't hold my interest pasts those two books. So I'll take it for what it is. A phase in the life of me. Ah, my twenties. Loved em, but can't say that I miss em.

______________________________PART 2

On a lighter note, I just went to the old thread and read through some of the comments re The Coldest Winter Ever. And guess what? Somebody mentioned a series by Walter Mosley that I'm going to go out and find. The "Socrates Fortlow" books. I'd seen an HBO movie with a Socrates Fortlow. Never knew Walter Mosley wrote the book. Gotta love this site.

I've only read one Walter Mosley Book (Devil in a Blue Dress) but I recall that it was pretty good. (Oh there I go again with what I "remembered was good"... ). Anyway, I always get excited when I get a book suggestion that I think I actually just might go out and read - like, immediately.

Troy,

I read some of the old thread...not too much, just a little...I want to re-read the book before reviewing too many of the comments. The re-read has been on my to-do list for a year now, so I think I may go ahead and knock that out this weekend. I'll def post my thoughts here when I'm done. Should be interesting. It was kind of cool to see the old comments though...looks like I've missed out on some lively discussions on these message boards.

Oh, to answer the question. Unless the first lady equivalent of whatever country/culture produced this cover is customarily shown topless, then this to me is racist and offensive. Hands down.

This is so funny! Troy, and here I thought I was the only one not watching. I won't tell my mama that though! tehe

As for "The Coldest Winter Ever"... My negative opinion probably had to do with the fact that I was past middle-age when I read this book which came out in 1999, and I had been spoiled by previously reading good books, as opposed to Sistah Souljah's demograph who were a younger breed, new to the reading experience because they could not relate to what was out there.

This is why I'm looking forward to re-reading The Coldest Winter Ever. I am curious to see if the 40year old me will agree w/the opinions of the 20year old me as to the greatness of this book as well as several others. I recently read some short stories that I'd read as a teenager (like "Hills Like White Elephants" by Ernest Hemingway and "A Rose for Emily" by William Faulkner) and I found them just as thought-provoking today as I had twenty years ago. I want to see what happens when I read Sister Souljah's book again. I'm hoping for another positive experience bc I'm so hyped about this book, still! l am going to be disappointed if it isn't right the 2nd go round. lol

correction: When I say 20year old...I really mean to say 20-something year old. I know I was closer to 30 when I read it.

Just read Troy's Triangle...

Good stuff!

thnx

She’s a part of Public Enemy which was/is a revolutionary rap group…I seriously doubt she’ll write another novel in the same vein of The Coldest Winter Ever just to satisfy the audience’s thirst for another book of that kinda...unless the constant demand pushes her to do so

Like you, I doubt that she'll write another book along the same lines as The Coldest Winter Ever. But, I do think she'll write another book that I will love. I can hope at least.

Thanks for clearing up the difference between Street Lit and Urban fiction.

You also have to consider the commercial environment. We had authors like E. Lynn Harris, who was a true hustler, but also had first mover advantage. E. was a hustler with little competition. The same was true for Omar Tyree.

Writegirl, I read The Coldest Winter Ever and do not really understand the love affair with this particular novel other than it's iconic nature. It is generally held up as one of the best written of the Urban fair, but Treasure Blue writes arguably better, as does many others in this space.

It is far easier to Publish a book today, but more difficult, on average, to make any money with it.

I heard about how E. Lynn sold books out of his trunk and peddled them in beauty shops. I also heard about that first book, Invisible Life, around the same time I heard about The Coldest Winter Ever. As a matter of fact, the same woman insisted that I read both. I can't comment on why I liked the book so much, other than it was the first time I'd read ever read anything like it (that goes for both books), AND to this day, I remember the characters names and their struggles. Raymond, Kyle, the green-eyed foine man named Basil...Winter Santiago, her dad, her boyfriend. I normally don't remember those types of details ten, fifteen-plus years after the fact. So to me, The Coldest Winter Ever remains in my mind as one of the best books I've ever read, right along with To Kill a Mockingbird...Scout, Atticus (sp?), the dog, Boo Radley...and a few other books that stayed with me over the years.

I am going to read The Coldest Winter Ever again (and some of my other favorites). I'm doing this mainly because I'm curious to see how my perception has changed over the years concerning what is a great read and what is simply "okay."

I also agree that it is not very difficult to publish a book today. With the self-publishing industry sparing writers the slamming doors of agents and major publishers, a person can literally throw anything out there and nobody can stop them. But that doesn't mean they are going to make any money. My advice is for an aspiring author to hold on to your day job, write on your free time, and learn everything you can about the publishing industry & decide which route to go. If possible, save up enough money so that you can quit your day job and at some point focus solely on your craft. If you do that though, you should make sure you are prepared to live as a starving artist for however many years it takes for you to start making real money, because I doubt that the big paychecks will come over night. And be aware that there is a chance that you will never get the payday you dream of. Hopefully you'll make it, but if not, there's always the nine-to-five, I suppose.

I agree w/you on both points.

Speaking of genre, I still get confused about what urban/street lit is...at what point does a book become "street"...does it happen when in a character sells drugs? Prostitutes herself/himself? Curses a lot? Fights, goes to jail, drops out of school? Uses lots of slang? I wrote a book w/tons of that stuff in it, but I wouldn't call it street lit. I suppose it could be, but I just never thought it was. If somebody else called it that, however, I wouldn't be offended. I wonder if Sister Souljah shies away from the category because, like me, she's confused as to what criteria must be met in order for the label to fit.

One thing's for sure, she did such a good job with The Coldest Winter Ever that I will keep her on my list of favorites and will pay attention when she releases new books. I'm confident that eventually she will write another winner in my book. .

Seems that her fans weren't so much fans of Sister Souljah as they were that particular book. I'm guilty of that. I read the synopsis for Midnight some months ago and simply wasn't interested. Wasn't something I'd read. That's not to say it isn't a good book. Hopefully it'll find its audience sooner or later.

I think it's unfair to expect a reader (or fan, I guess) to automatically read the next book just because he/she liked the first one, regardless of the genre, subject matter, or synopsis of said next book.

Man oh man! I hear you both loud and clear! Cynique if someone thinks of you as bitter, based on your posts, I think that shows they lack critical thinking skills. Your posts make people think and you're right - the truth hurts sometimes. With that said, here's my truth: Facebook is disgusting! I'm sorry. I told myself I wouldn't go there. But it's true. My newsfeed stays clogged up with dumb shit, a constant reminder that I'm electronically linked to people that I can't learn anything from. The ones who I wouldn't mind interacting with have disappeared. Like me, they seem to have rejected the platform and moved on...back to real life I guess. Troy I hope that you don't stop engaging folks here. I rather like this site and always walk away with something to ponder.

I for one don't read sci-fi because I don't think about it - that is...until today.

I watched the video today that Milton posted and now my curiosity is up a bit. I recall how much I enjoyed the few sci-fi books I read as a child. The two that come to mind are The Handmaid's Tale and A Wrinkle in Time. Thought they were both great books. To that end, I wouldn't mind getting back into reading works from this genre.

All it takes is ONE book to change the game...just like how Sister Souljah did with The Coldest Winter Ever to reshift the focus back to Street Lit

Great point Nah'Sun. The Coldest Winter Ever is one of my all time favorite books. But I never would have thought to start reading it had someone not passed it on to me and said, "Trust me! You MUST read this!"

As a matter of fact, that was many years ago and so far not nan nother (couldn't resist) book has been as entertaining - except for White Lines (big ups to Tracy Brown) - in terms of bold, in your face, oh-snap!, drama.

I think that more than the genre, it was the writing itself that made me a fan of the books I mentioned. A good book is a good book and can sometimes draw the reader into a new type of character or storyline that he or she otherwise wouldn't have thought twice about. So I do believe there is hope for black science fiction to take off. We just need the right book to fall into the right hands and get the word out. I hope that happens because diversity rocks!

p.s. Most of the people I talked to about Sister Souljah's Midnight Series were disappointed because they wanted another Coldest Winter Ever. I think she should take that as a compliment...Like, wow! Coldest was SO GREAT that more than a decade later, people are still crying out for more. And those who like the story line for Midnight can develop into a new fan base for a new type of writing for her. So she'll be okay, I'm thinking.

Great discussion! One of my fav quotes: "...hey we forgot to put the black guy in there..." - Milton.

Funny, on point, and insightful. I just love my peeps! The talks regarding whether or not a non-black author can write black sci-fi reminds me of one of the discussions on this board.

I'm still watching, but I think that when I'm done, I may just pick up a sci-fi book. I used to like science fiction as a kid. Wouldn't mind getting back into it. Thanks for sharing.

Have a wonderful birthday!!! I'd sing ya a song, but trust me, typing is safer on the senses~

Welp...a quarter of the way through The Bluest Eye, I realized that the characters sounded vaguely familiar. A little further, and I remembered...

I've read this book before, and the experience was traumatic...not because it was a terrible book (it was a great book), but rather because I had to read it & discuss it in mixed company. This book was something I had to read in a high school literature class. I want to say I was probably a freshman or sophomore. I hated trying to "explain" the many different things going on in this book to my white classmates (although there were only a few of them). They never seemed to get it, or to even try. Even the teacher (who was white) was somewhat patronizing in her teaching of "what the author is trying to say." In the end, the reading experience ended up tossed into the back of my mind with the rest of the stuff I'd rather forget.

Then it happened again in college when the literature assignment was Beloved. Again, same thing, only this time there were like 18 white kids to our 2 blacks in the class. And we 2 clung together and defiantly dared anybody to offend us during the discussion of this book. That experience was a little better than the high school one, although I still didn't feel comfortable "explaining" the color issue - light vs dark, and things of that nature.

Nevertheless, revisiting Morrison at this new stage in my life has been a good thing. I'm glad I'm taking the time.

Started The Bluest Eye today, and barely made it out of the prologue before saying "Oh so *this* is why she's one of the great ones!"

I am already loving the writing style, and I know I'm going to like this book. Can't believe I waited so long to pick this one up! Better late than never though.

regardless of who you vote for, gotta love this!

The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson.

...follows the story of 3 families as they take part in The Great Migration from South to North. Non fiction, but reads like a darn good piece of fiction. So far I love it.

Oh wow I am going to get this book! I was just thinking that I needed to find something to read before school starts! As soon as you said not for the faint of heart I knew I was in. Thanks for the recommendation.

------

Welp, I just finished reading Cynique's review and I really can't wait to get the book now. Great review! And Cynique thanks for throwing in the tidbits about your parents and where you grew up. I found myself imagining what that would have been like, growing up in that time in a suburban-like little area for other black families. I bet it was nice. I like knowing that we had those areas. Up until this point whenever I thought of the Great Migration, everything I visualized was in the inner city.

https://www.createspace.com/3768307

http://www.amazon.com/What-You-Dont-Know-ebook/dp/B008RPSI7W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343918277&sr=8-1&keywords=what+you+don%27t+know+novella

The E-book version for kindle, nook, & kobo will be dirt cheap ($0.99) until Saturday, and then the price goes up to $4.99. Enjoy!

Novella (about 35,000 word count).

Wow it only took you 11 minutes of thought Writergirl :-)

I feel everything you are saying but I still have a problem with the analogy. Again, a gun's sole purpose is to 'cause harm -- even when hunting.

Religion, unlike the gun is used for both good and evil.

I think the world would be a much better place without guns.

I think the world would be a better place if religious practice were more spiritual.

I agree. I also took a moment to rethink my response & yes, the analogy is slightly off.

I'm sitting here trying to come up with a different analogy, and I'm having a brain fart. If I come up with something, I'll post it.

Waterstar, BTW, I'm lol @ Bishop P. Tenderloins! Why does he sound familiar?!

I don't see myself as an African living in America. (but I'll still check the box for African American on the form, if there's nothing else that fits.) I barely understand African culture. Truth be told, many Africans don't even see me (us) as Africans living in America. They see us as white. Once in a while I get bummed when I get reminded of that fact, but I get over it quickly because I understand that that's the way things are...that's just more fall-out from the slave trade. IMO.

So, it's hard for me to get riled up over a name, be it African American, Negro, Colored, Black, the slaves, enslaved. I mean, for me, I just pick what I like best for me & go with that. So out of all of those names, I choose to refer to myself as black. And as far as a choice between the slaves & enslaved. I choose to say the slaves.

When it comes to word choice, I think the connotation is going to be different for different people, based on individual preferences and experiences. To say that you hope that in the future all children will start to change the language from the slaves to the enslaved Africans seems - futile. The only reason I say this is because after we get them used to "enslaved Africans" someone will eventually come along and find fault with that. There will never be a perfect word to describe us or to describe what our ancestors endured. And let's not even get into the topic of black folk whose ancestors were never slaves because they themselves were the slave owners.

Hmmm. I guess an older person might use the word negro if that's what she's used to. I even use the word from time to time when I'm trying to be a smart ass...like Negro pa-lease. But I refer to myself as black. If she referred to me as negro...hmmm...after I'm done laughing at the fact that she still uses such an old word, I might correct her and ask her to refer to me as black, if I like her. I don't know...that's a weird question Waterstar. I don't really know how I would feel. I'm trying to imagine a scenario, but I'm having trouble. Maybe I'm having trouble because I've never referred to myself as a Negro. But Negro isn't a bad thing, is it? Isn't that what we preferred to be called at one point, before we moved on to something else?

Here's the scenario that popped up in my head: Older white coworker says to the receptionist (about me), "Does the negro girl know that her client is here?"

see...I'm laughing right now...it just sounds so, so, I don't know...funny in a weird, foreign language sort of way.

I honestly don't know if that would be a big deal or not. I've never experienced it & am having trouble imagining a real life situation where I would have to.

This is an interesting conversation. I feel almost guilty for not knowing about these black book fairs and black book stores. I mean, I "know" about them, but I am not deep on that scene. I've never even looked for a black book store near me, no matter where I've lived.

Whenever I felt like reading for fun, I've always checked my books out from the library. The only time I ever bought books (before I got my kindle) was when I joined that Black Expressions thing (which, until now, I thought was black owned & was actually glad to be supporting it...SMH).

I wonder how many others are just like me. We simply did not realize how much of a problem & sad situation this is.

From my observation of the young people in my world, I notice that they all tend to get their books - on the rare occasion that they show an interest in reading instead of reality television - from their school libraries or from online vendors like amazon.

Maybe the problem lies with promotion of the book store? I say this because I grew up in an all black neighborhood, attended an all black high school, and never heard of a black owned book store. If it existed, I would think somebody would have promoted at our school. There were lots of kids like me who loved to read just for fun. But at the same time, as a kid I wasn't going to go hunting down a book store just because it was black. My reading needs were already being met at my local library. I wonder if a similar thing is happening today - lack of promotion for the store. And nowadays readers have more than just the local library at their disposal. There's the Internet, Wal-Mart & all the other places already mentioned. Why go to a black book store when your reading needs are being met? There has to be something to pull you in there - something to even make you remember that the black book store even exists...something to introduce you to it if you are clueless like I was. Isn't that good business sense? If you want the people to come, put yourself out there, treat them with open arms when they do come (you want them to return right?), and keep your name out there.

If you offer a service that a person feels they can't do without, they will support your business. I think too many times people open businesses & just expect people to show up and support just because.

I guess I'll just dive right in. I think Waterstar's analogy is on point.

And...I think that a gun's purpose is to harm people, yes. And that too is religion's purpose - through power & control.

And I’m not going for it. Why on earth would I need to join a religion and have somebody - another human being just like I’m a human being - tell me how to get to heaven? How would he know the answer to that question and not me? He is made of the same substance that I am made of. He is just as flawed as I am and yet I’m supposed to believe that he has some special understanding? And I am supposed to believe that it is wise to let him convince me with some words in a book that I should follow him into his religion, as opposed to maybe my neighbor down the road who picked a different type of religion with a different set of rules for heaven? That sounds crazy to me! But this is what people do every Sunday.

Coming up I was exposed to tons of different churches and religions because my mom was searching for something. And I noticed that each time we ended up at a new church there was the same dance. We’d get taken into some conference room or back room. The representative would begin with the books - always the books - that were supposed to prove that this way was the right way into heaven. And then after the books came the rules. Telling us how we had to dress, what we could or could not eat and when, how we should talk, what we should or shouldn’t put up with, when to give them our money and how much. It was ridiculous.

At the end of the day, I was born with the same tools spiritually as everybody else. No man or woman can get in my face with a book and tell me that I should be doing this or doing that or living this way or that in order to get into heaven. For real? Really? hahahaha

And as far as what it's done for Black people in this country? Well, from my observations I would have to say it has kept us in a different type of slavery, where now our minds are stuck. Those of us that are deep in the church allow it to take over everything. I've seen women who want to leave their abusive husbands stay, just because their preacher told them something about what the Bible said. I've heard of an instance where a child was molested but nobody said anything because the teen that did it was the son of the preacher and they wanted to protect the First Family. I've heard of people writing out that 10% check for tithes even though they didn't have money to pay their rent.

That's not to say that all churches are bad. I have an uncle who is a preacher and he really wants to save the world. His heart is in the right place and so he will be just fine. But the system of religion itself, all good preachers aside, was set up to control people, in my opinion. And many religious leaders still use it for that, and it works too.