KENNETH

ln this regard black people are no different from whites. The kind of elitism that comes from being college educated hinders our relationships with each other and the struggle for Black Freedom. A lot of well off educated blacks only want the benefits of the system rather than changing the system so that black people benefit collectively.

There are plenty of intelligent, hard working, and effective people doing all kinds of things for themselves and other black people. These people have never been to college. We need them and their contributions as much as anybody with a degree. While we have always had these divisions as black people, it's important to be aware and strive to bridge the gap.

My apology I misunderstood you. Thanks for the clarification.

16 hours ago, richardmurray said:

It is municipal and also post war between the states. The reality is, what black people are owed  is beyond any government to give

 

 

Reparations means a thing that repairs, make ready again, but the black community in the usa only gets worse in the past historically.  To be blunt, if the black community in the usa whose forebears were enslaved before or after the usa was founded want to make any situation where we lived ready again, then it has to be back to africa. Because as a community, the DOSers only had something worth repairing before we were taken. In harlem, in NYC, many people talk about the harlem renaissance which was a term first coined by whites, but blacks first termed the new negro movement , and while these are merely labels, they serve an important point here. The black community in harlem before the 1920s wasn't some sort of paradise for blacks. So the black community in harlem during what many call the renaissance was having its first  positive cultural explosion. Not a renaissance, but a naissance. Whites in the usa talk about better days in the past cause they had them, when natives were being slaughtered and blacks enslaved. Native americans in the usa when they talk about better days in the past had them, before whites/blacks or any immigrants forced their way into their ancestral lands without their permission or invitation. But Black DOSers never had a better time in the past in the usa. What needs to be made ready again, what rebirth needs to happen? slave quarters in the british colonies, slave quarters in the usa, sharecroppers in the south, municipally discarded regions in northern or western cities? Yes, martha's vineyard, yes, a black one percent always existed , free, educated, fully invested in the usa. BUT, 99% of blacks were in enslaved/sharecropping/urban neglected while the 1% of black people were owning homes and lived better than  poor whites. ... the black community of san francisco can be given money but the black community of san francisco doesn't have anything in san francisco in the past worth repairing. They need something new in san francisco , and that is the question that brings uncertainty to  where the money will go, what will the black people do?  The black community in the usa, in this composite nation, frederick douglass's title for the usa, is a community of individuals, which serves the usa or the white community in it well, but is a terrible platform for a people who need a collective existence , that money can't buy, while money can complicate its forming. Composite NAtion speech, frederick douglass https://aalbc.com/tc/blogs/entry/357-frederick-douglass-our-composite-nation/

 

 

 

earlier thoughts 
https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2216&type=status

 

Thanks for posting this Richard. While I disagree with how you get to opposing Reparations l think you're wise to do so.

On 3/11/2023 at 9:03 AM, Pioneer1 said:

ProfD

This is true.
And one of the things I've noticed over the years, most of the Black success in America today is 1st generational!
....as opposed to most of the Black success of the past and the success most other demographic groups enjoy.

What do I mean?

A lot of people of all races are self-made, but MOST people who are wealthy have actually inherited their wealth and opportunities from earlier generations to various degrees.
Whether the money was passed down, the property and house they lived in was passed down, the position at work was passed along to them from a relative, etc.....they had help from older relatives.

Today, most Black people who ARE successful in the United States have had to build THEIR wealth and success from scratch because for one reason or another the wealth or positions weren't left for them.
This isn't as honorable as it may seem; because it's really saying that many of our people simply don't care anything about their own progeny and would rather fuck up the money and use it up themselves and take it to their grave than leave it to the next generation.  So you have thousands of young men and women growing up bitter because they weren't left with any materials to work from.

How many other groups do that to their own offspring?

Just build up a bunch of money and property only to waste it up or take it to the grave with them while their children an grand children end up going through poverty and haven't to climb out of it over and over again?

This is why I say, I often wonder if some of our people exist simply as examples of what NOT to do and how NOT to be.

 

 

"Hey guys, if you want to be successful in life-
Look at THOSE people and do the exact OPPOSITE!"

 

Well more often than not middle class blacks come one generation out of poverty. And the Black Middle Class is less well off and stable than its white counterpart. None of this is mainly a failure on the part of black people. It is the result of systemic racism in employment and more specifically housing discrimination.

Whites got a break after The Great Depression with government backed mortgages in addition to good paying union jobs and GI Bill benefits for college. Blacks got nothing so whites have a head start on building wealth. They have passed on wealth and far too many of us can't.

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

KENNETH

I've met a few so-called "Black Conservatives" who hated White folks and talked all kinds of Black Empowerment in private conversations but they were disappointed in something in society whether it was what THEY perceived to be the lack of progress in the Black community, lack of success, or the amount of crime and immorality they saw rising over the years and it caused them to flip and identify with the Conservative philosophy.

They say you tend to become more Conservative as you get older anyway, and I find that to be somewhat true personally.
But then I wonder is it that individuals get more Conservative or is society getting more Liberal and tolerant while we stay the same?
 

But more along the lines of what YOU said.....yeah I've also met a lot of Black Conservatives who thought "blaming the White man" as they say, is just a waste of time. At the end of the day White folks are still running the show and you learn how to work with them or stand on the sidelines and suffer the consequences.

Perhaps it goes back to the question I raised in the beginning. While some Black Conservative Republicans truly see themselves helping black people others are about the benefits of individualism.  For me it's never been about anti whiteness. I want to work with everybody for mutual benefit. But I strongly believe in black freedom and equality. To the extent systemic white racism hinders that freedom the struggle continues. We suffer the most when we don't resist.

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm beginning to wonder if unity really IS a solution.....or a problem..

If the White racists are setting the house on fire and most of the people you're in the house with are STUPID and just lay around smoking dope all day.....would you really want to unite with THEM in hopes of saving yourself.

Once the fire starts and you try to warn them....them fools are liable to lay on the couch smoking blunts and look you crazy talking about:

 

"Mayne.....cut dat damn alarm off!!!
This nigga trippin'.....ain't no damn White folks around heah!"


Now would it be best to waste time arguing with and trying to unite with THEM.....or would it be best to be an INDIVIDUAL and bust the hell out of that house before it and them dope smoking clowns go down and you end up going down with them?

If so many of our people are stupid or just clueless and can't get it right and protect themselves from these racists, sometimes the Individuals among us who DO have good sense have to do the best they can to survive....even if alone if need be.

 

 

 

By that same line of reasoning perhaps Conservative Black Republicans believe that blaming whites and American society for inequality and supposed injustice is self defeating and foolish so as individuals they have moved to the Right. Black people in their view should see the truth or suffer the negative consequences. 

52 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Troy

If I had lived in New York, I would have found out which classes you were teaching in and enrolled just to sit down and hear what you have to say about various things.
Not sure if I'd pass the classes....but I'd keep signing back up each semester anyway....lol.

 

KENNETH

One of the reasons there are so many Black Conservatives now a says is because racists have INFILTRATED the Democrat party and Liberal/Progressive circles and corrupted them and twisted them into such ridiculous and unrecognizable institutions with the sillies of ideas to the point that most people with common sense and some life experience would rather align themselves with the Conservatives than call themselves Liberal or Progressive.

And example of what I'm saying...............

Back during the 50s, 60s, and 70s which was during the Civil Rights Movement.....the rules of being a Liberal were crystal clear.
You were for:  Black rights, Women's rights, Worker's rights, and anti-Poverty Programs

That's it.

You weren't fighting for any other causes, movements, philosophies, or special interests.

Most Black people....the overwhelming majority were SOLIDLY Democrat and SOLIDLY Liberal


Sometime during the 80s that changed.
All kinds of other special interest groups started sneaking in through the back door and the White Democrats and White Liberals started giving them a platform to promote their causes and even equate them with ours.

Homosexuals.
Transexuals.
Atheists.
Communists
Environmentalists

Latinos
Ultra man-hating feminists
Eugenicists


....and many other groups....many of which went directly against the morals and ethics of most Black Americans.....started joining and flooding in the Democrat/Liberal party and changing the direction and goals of the movement and THAT turned a lot of Black people off.
 

Pioneer1 as usual you stir the pot giving me a lot to think about and make better arguments. Thanks. I disagree with you here, but you're alluding to a larger issue that is very important. Perhaps I will tackle the matter in another post about blacks, white Liberals, and the Democratic Party. I will say this: 

1. Black people sympathize with a kind of operational reformist politics mainly in the Democratic Party that addresses and concerns about racial inequality and injustice. But very few of them are ideological Liberals who support abortion rights, gender equality, LGBTQ Rights, or environmentalism.

2. The kind of reform politics that advanced Civil Rights and supported working class economic prosperity has been eclipsed by a Centrist Moderate politics that tries to serve big money Corporate interests while appealing to whites especially men who don't sympathize with racial equality or anything governmental that helps blacks.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

@KENNETH often this argument is simplified into a this or that scenario.

 

1. There are large groups of Black people who are socially conservative.
2. There are large numbers of Black people who are fiscally conservative.  

 

Black people can be in both of the above groups and vehemently reject the Republican party, which never made sense to me.

 

Black people are all over the spectrum when it comes to assessing what is most responsible for our collective and individual successes and failures.

 

If you have the three things below, you will generally succeed in this country:

1. Ability;
2. Drive; and
3. Lucky

You really need all three to succeed. That "trifecta" of conditions can be both elusive and fleeting. The legacy of slavery and Jim Crow has diminished our ability obtain some of the lucky breaks white folks enjoy.  This of course affects our drive and even our ability.
 

Both of my grandfathers were illiterate. 

 

I know other Black people my age whose grandfathers graduated from college. 

 

Who do you think benefited more from inherited wealth, educational opportunities, and less familial dysfunction?  Who would be more inclined to claim hard work is the way to succeed?

 

I'm one of those people who blame both the legacy of racism and our own behavior for both our individual and collective predicaments.  I also believe much of our dysfunctional is a direct consequence of living in a historically white racist country.

Troy I appreciate your response and for being thoughtful and balanced as usual. 

I agree the debate can get overly simplified and we don't consider the diversity or complexity of blacks views on racism and personal responsibility for inequality. But at the same time it's hard to make that argument for balance because black and white Conservatives alike only consider black pathology as the reason  for inequality in the first place.

There is a kind of Conservatism within Black America but it may not be the small or anti government kind advocated by the GOP.  In fact this kind of social and cultural Black Conservatism often criticizes black moral, social, and cultural life. At the same time it is often paired with a strong critique of systemic racism and injustice in white American society. Some of the best proponents of this perspective have been Black Nationalists like Elijah Muhammad, Malcolm X , and Louis Farrakhan. 

Black Conservatives are more visible and vocal than ever. They are writers, thinkers, media personalities, and politicians. Whether you agree or disagree they cannot be dismissed.

What are they doing to help black people? Could this be the wrong question? Maybe it's about individualism not black people. But how can black people be free individuals while being defined and denied things as a particular group. That is the problem with systemic racism. 

Yet Conservatives including blacks on the Right don't believe systemic racism is responsible for problems faced by blacks. They blame government policies that foster dependency and encourage racial strife. Moreover they argue that blacks are hindered by their own immoral and pathological behavior.

Some black people find all of this outrageous while a few completely agree. But I suspect there are far more black people who blame both racism and us ourselves for problems we face. 

There are good and bad reasons for saying you don't need a man in this case see I'm not overly concerned with the slogan. The truth is that we need one another not only for reproduction, but connection that enriches both of us. God made it that way.

What we don't need in our personal or social relationships are control, manipulation, exploitation,  abuse, or injustice.  Too often these things come with patriarchy and gender inequality so change is necessary. Not every change or egalitarian idea is right or useful that's. because we're prone to error and excess. But we can move forward together in better direction. I think that's one way of thinking about the photo.

What are the sources of conflict in our relationships or lack there of ? Think about it.  Too many Black men are disdain education and work.  They only care about sex and the appearance of power and accomplishment. They focus on conquering one woman after another, and can't be faithful in a committed relationship. And they don't show up as fathers for their kids. They don't even think about marriage and family. Too many Black women wrongly blame and punish all men especially their lovers and husband's for the wrongs that an abensentee father, lousy boyfriend, or sex partner did to them in the past. They are so worried about being strong and holding onto to what they have that it's impossible for them be vulnerable and accept a man's love and support. They have babies outside of marriage and are unhappy in themselves. They wrongly look for a man to fix this brokenness and are mad because no man can. 

These are the kinds of attitudes and modes of living that we must work on as individuals while continuing to fight for our freedom and equality. We've got to be better to each other so we can move forward as partners rather than one over another.

She looks great in the Vogue Cover. I  don't think it has to be emasculating or diminishing ASAP Rocky. It's about her rise or perhaps re-emergence not only as a star but a business woman and mother. He's there supporting her and holding her hand as a symbol of the bond. But that's just me. 

We want to talk about black people being liberated and strong over white racist dominatdomination yet black people male and many females still see patriarchal control as positive and necessary. Black Freedom then merely becomes freedom for black men to control black women and communities. I just think it's a good cover.

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

There's a whole lot of Black folks down in Florida.
What are THEY doing about this racist autocratic Governor?

Plenty of Black folks with money in Florida.
Plenty of Black folks with power in Florida.

If they just sit back and let a Nazi like that take over and do whatever the hell his mind desires....besides the racists, I'll have to blame THEM TOO.

Just like I blame that sissy ass buck-broken clown (I don't have respect for that punk) who all but won the Governor's race but sat up there and LET DeSantis and the Republicans CHEAT him out of the election through their usual racist fraud and suppression tactics.
Listening to those racist White Democrats advising him -the nigga didn't even fight back.
He just took it up the ass (literally I guess) and conceded without so much as a challenge. 


.....tired of letting these sorry ass negroes off the hook.

Actually THEY are more to blame that the White folks.
I can't blame White folks for trying to secure as much power and authority as they can.  That's COMMON SENSE.
At some point I'm going ot have to look at my own people and wonder why so many of US aren't even interested in trying to do the same thing!
 

It's not common sense. They are racists. Moreover it's the system that has been put in place over time. Its wrong. Furthermore it goes beyond teaching history in school.

On 2/16/2023 at 6:40 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Proposed by whom....and rejected by whom?

Should we be surprised when an enemy....especially a historic one...rejects something that benefits us?
 

There are nearly 50 million (or more) AfroAmericans in the United States and most speak some form of Ebonics or another.
Who in the hell has the power to reject it if WE say it should be codified and established as an official language or dialect?

Negroes need to grow a pair and stop waiting on White mommy or daddy to give them permission to be human 

Slang and Ebonics if that's really a thing are fine in certain situations, but not everywhere all the time among ourselves or dealing with whites. We are more than capable of speaking standard English. Why get into some kind of symbolic struggle over making Ebonics standard? It's a distraction from bigger more important issues.

8 hours ago, Janeer said:

It seems that soon will be a new protests  with thousands of people.

I hope you're right. 

3 hours ago, Jaboris said:

Jobs, housing, ecenomic opportunities, and education systems are all failing because of the incompetence, laziness and general thug culture prevelant within alot of our black communities 

There may be something to having a smaller more well off black population rather than lots of blacks many of them living in concentrated poverty. But if you have less racism, poverty, and more opportunity then you can have thriving black communities like Prince George's County Maryland.

On 2/13/2023 at 7:44 PM, Stefan said:

Democrats in Texas fought against Governor Greg Abbott's restrictions against voting and lost. They even left the state to avoid arrest. They staged a walkout, voiced their outrage and encouraged the writing of protest letters. 

To no avail. 

What the hell do you expect Black elected legislators from other states to do? If a law is passed in Texas and this is appealed to a higher court, then we have to wait on a decision from that higher court.

Black activists, church officials and lawyers in other states will have little affect except to bring attention to an issue. But you can do that yourself by highlighting the issue online as I did. 

Too many Black people care more about celebrities, music and fashion than the overall state of Blacks in the U.S. 

 

You make a good point about the kinds of things some black people care about. I have wondered why black people don't launch a mass movement to fight against racism and economic exploitation. Then I thought about the ways in which black people and society are different from the 1960s. It's more difficult to get large numbers of blacks together to fight for concrete change

Some black people benefit more from the status quo today than even the most well off blacks in previous generations. Lastly, black people are more separated by class and neighborhood than ever. So it's easy to understand how and why reactionary extremists like Abbott in Texas and De Santis in Florida are not effectively challenged.

On 2/12/2023 at 9:14 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Kenneth

Is it that we have NO leaders in the AfroAmerican community....or is it that the WRONG people are leading?

 

I think it's both. In some places there is little or no activism and elected officials are not responsive to the masses. In some cases you have activism but no real mass organizing. Meanwhile elected officials are making an effort but they fail short for various reasons.

I would say my local community fits into the former scenario. The next largest city in my native state with a much larger black population fits into the latter.

11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So we SHOULD expect to see massive protests with HUNDREDS of thousands of Black folks in both Austin and Tallahassee demanding the resignation of both of these racist governors.

Right?

That's what would happen if AfroAmericans collectively had GOOD SENSE.

Unfortunately most Black folks in both of those states don't give a damn about the academic curriculum or anything else involved in politics and racial issues.
Most of them are so busy wrapped up in their own personal drama that they are as far removed from this issue as any White person and could care less about it.

Infact, unfortunately a larger percentage are only concerned with getting high and having a good time....until.

It's simply OVER for a lot of our people.
Those of us who are righteous and intelligent....those of our people who can be saved....must SEPARATE ourselves and form our own communities and let whatever may...COME...to the masses.

I don't think it's about resignations or the curriculum. Diversity Equity Inclusion efforts impact recruitment, funding, and contracting. These things have a concrete impact on us. Nobody gets fired up to do anything if there is no agitation. That depends on leadership. I fear that is what we lack in many black communities. 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

These prejudiced Governors of Texas and Florida respectively are directly attacking Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI). 

 

Interestingly, these governors are not being challenged by their colleagues and constituents within their home state. 

 

I'm sure there are minorities working at the local and state level who are either affected by and/or have benefitted from these initiatives. 

 

Yet, with every news story clearly showing how these governors are determined to roll America back 100 years, there is no massive protest state-wide or nationally. 

 

I wonder why....

 

Please don't tell me it's because citizens are afraid they will be injured or killed. 

 

Otherwise, silence is either acceptance or complicity or both.

 

We as black people along with white supporters are caught up in symbolism or merely reacting to the most blatant racism like the killing of Tyre Nichols.

By symbolism I mean protests over Confederate monuments or outrage over microaggressions like something said or posted on social media. We are focused on the 1619 Project and related controversies.

Then there are the police killings whether it's George Floyd and Breonna Taylor or now Tyre Nichols. Of course we should be outraged and demanding justice 

We have to think and act more broadly than symbolic jestures or reacting to blatant racism. We must challenge public policies or the lack thereof. It is important to confront powerful corporations too. These political and economic institutions are what systemic racism is all about. They should be the targets of street protests, boycotts, civil disobedience, negative publicity, and lobbying by blacks and white supporters. 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

No surprise. How the money gets spent shows the priorities.

 

The taxpayers should be protesting if they don't agreee with how their tax dollars are being spent. 

You both are right on target to point these things out.  We need a politics, mass struggle, and consciousness that doesn't tolerate this kind of situation.

There is always an economic dimension to racism and Slavery was its manifestation from the 16th to late 19th century = Brazil abolished Slavery in 1888.  But think of the ways in which black labor is overrepresented in low paying unskilled least desirable and dangerous work to benefit a white corporate elite. While I'm not a Socialist I strongly believe class matters. It is as important as race.

22 hours ago, ProfD said:

Tyre Nichols was beaten to death by 5 black former Memphis police officers.

 

Word is for 3 minutes, those 5 ex-cops beat that 29-year old man like a "human piñata". We'll see the video soon. 

 

The whole ordeal stemmed from a traffic stop. Tyre's family says the only reason he tried to run away is because he was scared.

 

No matter how eccentric an individual might appear to be, if they're nonviolent, there's no reason for police officers to abuse them. 

 

Police officers have plenty ways of catching up with a fleeing nonviolent suspect too. Let them go. Eat donuts and wait for them to show up at the crib. 

 

Police officers are sworn to serve and protect citizens. They have had a false sense of authority since the war on drugs.

 

Police officers shooting and beating nonviolent folks is excessive force or worse...murder. Those 5 clowns need to go to prison. 

 

You're absolutely right. There's no reason why a routine traffic stop should have ended with that man's death. What were those officers thinking if anything at all. American law enforcement has got to be the most violent in the Western world. 

But it goes to show that having black people in positions of power and authority doesn't guarantee justice or benefit black people individually or collectively. The Police Chief in Memphis is a black woman named C.J. Davis. Representation doesn't mean a thing. 

Thanks for posting this link regarding the Project for New American Century. It was as disturbing as it was insightful. We need to be concerned about foreign policy and politics. Black people cannot afford to disengage just focusing on self improvement and entrepreneurship alone.

We need to be sophisticated in our advocacy and voting to challenge politicians and elites committed to endless war and regime change. Furthermore we need to challenge our young people to rethink the notion that the military is a means of self improvement and economic opportunity.

The United States has ruined things in places like Iraq and Libiya through military intervention. We need to make sure that support for Ukraine against Russia doesn't escalate into a wider war that involves the US and NATO as well.  Foreign policy is a black issue because the military is full of young black people who will be disproportionate casualties in any war.

As for your initial concern about war with Iran we need black and progressive voices to call for change. I'm no expert but here's what I think :

1. Ease sanctions against Iran and revive the Obama era nuclear deal. 

2. Encourage peace and reconciliation between Shiite Iran and its largely Sunni Arab neighbors like Saudi Arabia which will ease tensions and lessen conflict.

3. Make it clear to Israel that the US opposes preemptive force against Iran and that American financial and military aid will be adversely affected by attacking Iran. 

We need to speak out against heated rhetoric by politicians of both parties that exacerbates conflict.

6 minutes ago, Cynique said:

@KENNETH Was journalism your original field?  You are an excellent writer; a concise critical thinker 

It was Communication with a minor in Pan African Studies. Thanks so much for the compliment its very encouraging.

11 hours ago, Cynique said:

Is this speech by Booker T. Washington the one that motivated President Theodore Roosevelt to invite him to the White House?  Didn't  W.E.B. Du Bois the other famous black spokesman of that era oppose many of the stances Booker T. Washington took on race. Some historians have compared the relationship between the radical Du Bois and the moderate Washington to the one between Malcolm X and Martin Luther King.  

 

 

@KENNETHwhat an interesting resume. Did you get disillusioned by the confinement of college and the chaos of activism, and now prefer to immerser yourself in the ranks of the proletariat?  Or do you supervise the labor force, something your past experiences qualified you to do?  

I married a sista who had two small children and we had two more together. Working in different jobs often low paid service positions and a couple of professional jobs making ends meet and having a family quickly pushed aside protest activism.