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Pioneer1 last won the day on December 13

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  1. Troy If this were a woman with dark brown skin, or a the same complexion with a chubby nose and lips....then MAYBE I would consider that she could have permed her hair to get it that straight. Atleast those other features would hint at her having some Black ancestry. But GENERALLY SPEAKING......... When you see a woman with skin that light. With eyes that green/hazel. With a nose that thin. With lips that thin. With hair that long and stringing from the roots to the very ends. ......are you SERIOUSLY going to entertain the idea that she might be perming her hair to help pass even more?????? She looks like the average garden variety White girls. To consider her Black is a monumental reach.....lol. If a woman who looks like this is considered Black........ Then what's to stop a bunch of White people with dark hair or dark eyes from taking over televisions shows, businesses, and executive positions and declaring that THEY now represent a "Black presence" in those positions? Cynique How does classification behave? Classification IS a behavior. It's a thought process of how to group people. And how can you use unnatural terms to classify natural behavior? Because ALL words are "unnatural". They are made up by human beings as part of a language system. You also seem to be equating "behavior" with "culture". No, but behavior is PART of culture. Nobody is "obviously" Caucasian to me because i have reached the point where when asked to identify the "race" of a person, i am comfortable with saying "i don't know". That's because you're probably applying the traditional American understanding of "race"....which is generally flawed and incorporates the erroneous "one drop" theory. I used to apply the same definition until I recognized how flawed it was. My definition of race doesn't follow one's genetic lines. It goes by PHENOTYPE......or simply the way one looks. In other words....... I could care less what your ancestral background is or even what color your parents are. If you LOOK Caucasian to me....you ARE Caucasian. If you LOOK East Asian....you ARE East Asian. And if you LOOK mixed-race.....as far as I'm concerned you ARE mixed raced. Which means a Black man and White woman can have children and if one child comes out looking White and the other one comes out looking like the father. Despite them being siblings of the same parents I would consider them of separate races. This may seem overly simplistic.....but it cuts down on confusion. The question of race will never be resolved on this board. The different views here are too entrenched. Did you really EXPECT for major problems centuries old to be solved on a message board....lol. This is a place to exchange ideas which I believe will go a long way TOWARDS eventually solving these problems.
  2. Del and Troy When I was younger I used to glance around to compare myself.....lol. Infact I thought I was the only one who did that UNTIL I was in my 20s and heard a few old men joking about it and found out it was quite normal. I don't have an opportunity to be around other naked men much now a days and I don't rememer when I last went to a gym....lol. After a few "sessions" I used to also ask women how I compared with the other men they'd been with. I think most men are just competitive by nature. Troy Yes @Pioneer1 Google is the moral police, if you are part of their ad network. But unlike the police who will bring you in front of a judge (usually) for due process, Google are judge, jury, and executioner. In this particular case, I did not mean for you to change your post. I was just making light of the situation, and thumbing my nose at Google by using the word myself. Which is dangerous because Google could easily put me out of business in a heartbeat (for real). That's the new game now.... Punishment by omission. They get you "hooked" on something whether it's a cell phone, faster internet service, free advertising, or some other type of service.....and if you don't bow to their will then they punish you by threatening to or actually taking it away. I've heard older people say that convincing so many Black people to move to urban areas was actually part of the same goal. Up until about 70 years ago, MOST Black people lived in rural areas and were self sufficient. Once so many of our people moved into the cities and had to rely on someone else to provide them with electricity, gas, water, ect......they were more easily controlled. Cynique But you can give an illiterate person information and facts by simply telling it to them. Not being able to read doesn't render a person deaf and mute. This true.....but it's not the point.   Once you tell them something, their innate intelligence will determine whether they will subsequently comprehend what they have been told. So now you're ADDING to the mix....lol. You aren't relying on just TELLING them for them to know it, you're expecting "innate intelligence" to help them along. Which means they still need a mechanism to help them to process the information you gave them before they KNOW it. Slaves couldn't read or write but that didn't interfere with them comprehending things. True, literacy has little to do with intelligence.....but that's not the point. Griots are prime examples of oral communication. They were fonts of information who verbalized the history of their people. This is true....but again it's not the point. They didn't just parrot the information with no understanding, they KNEW the information they repeated. Awareness and knowledge are the same thing I'm sorrry....but no they aren't, lol. They are two different words with two different meanings. You are confusing knowledge with wisdom. No I'm not. YOU...on the other hand....are confusing merely receiving information from actually knowing it. Wisdom has to do with whether you wisely apply what you have comprehended in the course of living your life. True....but again this is not the point. Information, knowledge, and wisdom are 3 different words with 3 different meanings.
  3. Roland Martin Loses Talk Show

    The REAL shocker is PBS firing Tavis Smiley ! I don't picture Tavis groping or coming on strong to women.....lol. I think the right wing racists in this nation feel the heat from so many of their leaders getting caught up in sexual misconduct and have decided that if THEY have to go down.....they're going to take as many liberals and others down with them. So they dig up dirt on Franken and force him to resign. They're also using this as an opportunity to remove as many Black voices from the media as they can. That would explain the removal of Congressman Conyers, Roland, and now Tavis.
  4. Damn, is Google the new "moral police" on the internet now....lol. Alright bro, the problem has been resolved.
  5. Lots of posts in different directions......lol. Let me say 2 things: 1. I USED TO believe the knowledge was just information and facts. But found out that unless that information and facts comes with a proper understanding then it's still not knowing. I'll use another example..... If you go to someone who is can see, but is illiterate and hand them a book. That's GIVING them information. But they still don't KNOW what they're seeing because they can't read and don't UNDERSTAND what they're seeing and receiving. When someone just gets information or data....it's called AWARENESS. They PERCEIVE information with their senses. But in order to KNOW what they perceive they have to PROCESS that information and make sense of it. 2. Troy and Mel were talking about people being born with atalent. If we were to take our focus off the divine or spiritual aspect of talents and gifts and focus strictly on the humanistic perspective.............. I believe that certain people are born with certain genetic traits that are abnormally developed. Meaning they are better at a particular function than most others. Stronger vocal cords, bigger muscles, bigger dang-a-lang, better memory, better imagination, ect...... But depending on their ENVIRONMENT and what has been DISCOVERED....those traits may or may not be considered a gift or talent. For example, a person may be born with strong vocal cords that they have excellent control over. In America they would be considered having a talent to SING. But if they were born in some culture where singing isn't allowed or isn't a big deal, then they wouldn't be considered talented....they would just be somebody with strong vocal cords. The same person born with strong muscles and muscular control in America may be said to have a TALENT for basketball or football. But if they were born 2000 years ago in Rome they would be considered a talented GLADIATOR. And if they were born in some remote place where physical skills aren't important...they wouldn't be considered to have any talent at all. Look at RAPPERS like Jay Z and Ice Cube. They are considered very talented and have gotten rich in THIS society. Because rap first had to be invented and marketed. But if they were born in Iran 100 years ago would they have become rich or have been considered talented? So from a strictly humanistic point of view perhaps much of what we consider talent is better than normal physical or mental traits that need the proper environment in which to express themselves before being recognized as gifts.
  6. Roland Martin Loses Talk Show

    Well I don't like how he set up Dr Umar Johnson on one of the recent shows he did and tried to clown on the brother. Maybe he can go back to CNN and get his old job as a commentator back.
  7. Well how how a person looks is subjective. The woman was not obviously Caucasian to me because as i previously noted, her hair line looked nappy and this suggested to me that she was mixed. Cynique I don't see ANYTHING in that woman's hair that would even remotely suggest she is of African descent. If something is artificial it is not authentic, so your agreeing with race being an artificial construct actually means you don't think race is a natural way of classifying people. The BEHAVIOR OF CLASSIFICATION is natural. The PHYSICAL FEATURES in which those classifications are based on is natural. But The TERMS USED TO CLASSIFY are not. So I agree that terms like "Black" "Asian" "Mongoloid" and "White" are artificial man made terms. Even the word "race" is an artificial man made term. Words and language ITSELF are artificial man made terms.....lol. But the skin color, hair texture, and facial features that those classifications are based upon are NOT artificial....they are natural. Troy I don't particularly love using the term "White" because it's too narrow of a term. I prefer the term Caucasian because it encompasses the larger scope of the actual race of people labled as such. The man in the picture is a Caucasian. Again, regardless of his background or ancestry.....HE is a Caucasian.
  8. There are so many............ These aren't in any particular order of importance and I'm sure there are some that SHOULD be included in the top 10 that I'm not thinking of right now but here are 10 just off the top: Message To The Black Man (The Honorable Elijah Muhammad) Up From Slavery (Booker T. Washington) The Phantom Tollbooth Black Labor White Wealth (Claud Anderson) Mein Kampf (Adolph Hitler) The Bible The Autobiography of Malcolm X (Alex Haily) Think and Grow Rich (Napoleon Hill) Time Machine (H.G. Wells) Life After Life (Dr Raymond Moody) It's been years since I've read them and I don't have the best memory in the world to remember every detail of them, but I do remember how much I got caught up reading these book and just thinking about them still brings comfort to this day.
  9. Because I agree with Troy's title. Comprehension is INTERTWINED with knowledge. To make it easier. KNOWLEDGE = Information + Understanding Information alone isn't knowledge. If you sent a child to school and they didn't provide teachers but just gave them a book and said READ....you would take your child OUT of that school. Why? Because regardless of the information they still need to UNDERSTAND the information they're getting.
  10. Number one she's OBVIOUSLY CAUCASIAN because if she didn't TELL YOU she had "Black blood" in her....you wouldn't know it. She looks like the typical White woman. And racial classification is just as valid PHENOTYPICALLY as it is GENETICALLY. Which means that if a person LOOKS White they ARE White....regardless of their genetics. Most White people have Black and Indian ancestry.....it doesn't mean they are no longer White. Second, I agree that race IS an artificial construct (based on natural/biological differences). The concept is completely MAN MADE. But just because something is MAN MADE and artificial, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The STOCK MARKET is a man made construct also, but it's real and valid. The concept of race was a MAN MADE concept used to classify humans on their natural differences. I've been saying that for quite some time now.
  11. The Future of America

      Troy OK let me clarify: When I wrote anybody, I meant, any so called "race" (human) can do well academically given the right conditions and ability. Is that clearer? Yes it's clearer. But the point you're making is still a bit.....I'm not sure of the correct word for it. Because again, you're saying anyone of any so-called race can do well IF they have the ability and the conditions are right. Well that's a given. But again, everyone DOESN'T have the ability or live under the right conditions. So where are we agreeing or disagreeing? My point about Asians has more to do with their persona and the way they carry themselves in society than with their intelligence level or even academic performance. Africans do just as good or better than Asians academically, but they STILL are more aggressive and independant socially.....atleast it seems to me. Cynique Everyone has intelligence. Some people simply have more of it, than others As with many words in the English language, there are many definitions of the word "intelligence". I'm using the more colloquial definition. Meaning, those with an above average level of it or as you said have more of it. There is a difference between the average person who can speak...and one who is a "speaker"....lol.
  12. In the real world, things tend to be complex.....complicated. The answers don't seem to be as cut and dry or obvious or appealing. The fact is...... The owners have the right to hire and fire whoever the hell they want. Actually, in many ways they even have the MORAL right to do what they're doing. Let's say I owned a business in the city of Detroit. Which is a mostly Black highly urban area...... And I hired a White man to do a job. And part of that job is to be friendly with and get along with the customers and promote the values of the community. Now he KNOWS what I want and he AGREES to do this...which is why I hired him in the first place. Well hell, if the fool comes in one week with a confederate flag t-shirt on playing country music and turning on the television in the store to FOX NEWS. Should I respect his right to "express" himself and piss off my customers? Or should I HURRY UP and get rid of his ass? And if I gave him an ultimatum or just fired his ass out right.....I don't need some people jumping up and down in my store telling me about how he has to right to express himself or promote his conservative values. This is MY store....not his. And it's not public....it's private....it's MY BUSINESS. If people don't like how i run MY BUSINESS they need to start THEIR OWN business! Sometimes you have to look at things from OTHER PEOPLE'S point of view. Hell yeah the owners have black listed Colin and are refusing to hire him. Is it right? I don't know. But they certainly HAVE THE RIGHT both legally and in my opinion ETHICALLY to do so because THEY OWN IT. The point of OWNING something is CONTROL over who works there.....duhhh...... Black people focus too much on trying to force OTHER PEOPLE to do the right things in THEIR institutions instead of creating institutions of OUR OWN. If Black people owned their own teams and leagues, this wouldn't be as big of an issue if at all.
  13. Cynique That's really an ambiguous response. I started my post saying that the woman was OBVIOUSLY CAUCASIAN. What's "ambiguous" about that? Troy Actually @Cynique, @Pioneer1's response was completely understandable and consistent with what he's previously expressed. Thank you! Agree or disagree with me, atleast I'm consistent.....lol. I don't see her as Black at all despite her claiming to be 1/4 "African American". Does it make sense to consider a person the same race as just ONE of their grand parents? Infact, we know most AfroAmericans aren't pure Black anyway so for all we know even THAT GRAND PARENT may have been mixed race while being considered "Black". But I DO consider her an AfroAmerican.....meaning an American of African descent. Race is in the eye of the beholder. The terms are "mixed-race" or "biracial" are in the eye of the beholder too. Again, since there is only one race of humans alive today, these racial terms make no logical sense and are at best inconsistent. But Troy.....look at what you JUST said in the same statement. First you say: Race is in the eye of the beholder. Then you say: These racial terms make no logical sense You can't grant people the priveledge of looking at race and defining it from THEIR OWN perspective.....then turn around and call their perspectives "wrong" or "illogical". It's like calling a person's taste in beauty or music "illogical"....lol. So if you're giving people the right to see race however they want to see it then the fluidity of various perspectives grants everyone the priviledge to be correct in their OWN understanding. The only thing wrong or illogical would be like if someone else TOLD YOU what your perspective was about race and it wasn't what you believed.
  14. I would consider FACTS to be a component KNOWLEDGE. I know many wouldn't, but facts are supposed to be TRUE. If it's not true...then it's not a fact. So information that is true...in my opinion....just adds to one's knowledge. Delano Comprehension is linked to understanding. Understanding and knowledge are not the same. True. I believe that "intelligence" is made up of both information AND understanding. There are a lot of autistic people who "know" a lot of facts and figures but don't have any real understanding or "grasp" of what they know or how to apply it. People can spit outca lot of numbers without understanding the implication of those numbers. Exactly! Cynique If comprehension is linked to understanding, then how can it and knowledge not be the same. I think the difference is between knowledge and education. Because comprehension is just a component or part of overall knowledge. The other part is having the information/facts to comprehend. Education...atleast formal education...is simply an organized system of passing along KNOWLEDGE (information and understanding of it) from one group of individuals to the next. Knowledge you can acquire on your own by the comprehension acquired through experience. I believe WISDOM comes with experience, but you don't need experience or age with comprehension. It's more of an intellectual function that some people's brains simply perform better than others. This is why I say you CAN'T give people knowledge. You can only give them information or facts. But if they can't understand what the hell you're saying despite you telling them 40 different ways, there's not too much you can do about that....lol. Some people are better "understanders" than others.