frankster
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Posts posted by frankster
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8 hours ago, Stefan said:
@frankster
Thank you. I accept your offer of fruitful and uplifting communication.I find that fruitful and uplifting communication is Good and Rewarding
8 hours ago, Stefan said:Of all the people I've talked with over the years, you are the only one who mentioned idiosyncracies during discussions on what Jesus might have looked like after his resurrection.
I don't know if Jesus had any. But at times according to John 2:13-35, Jesus did appear to get angry, turning over the tables of the money changers in the Temple at Jerusalem and driving some of them from the premises with whips he fashioned from ropes.He also scolded his disciples one night for falling asleep when he asked them to stay awake ( Matthew 26:40 ) and keep on the watch. The scriptures also mentioned that Jesus wept, danced, was joyous at times but apparently quite serious when foretelling events
Yes Jesus had emotional outburst at times it demonstrates his humanity....Hence the Heresy of Arianism making Jesus simply another "son of Man" who has been Anointed the Messiah.
8 hours ago, Stefan said:But I don't know. I wasn't there. But I have been asked these questions many times.
Dang, we need to stop this. People might come away with a horrid impression we are respecting one another.
Can't do that on a news forum.
All verbiage must be bitter curses, salty fulmination and dripping with acid. ( Which must constitute a pretty crappy salad topping. ) It's the same in many forums, but on a couple, some folks really drop useful information.What's to be gained from such language but acrimony and hurt feelings.
9 hours ago, Stefan said: -
2 hours ago, Stefan said:
I did relate what the Bible stated.
That's all I can go by. You have every right to believe differently. Just as I do.Yes you did and so did I
2 hours ago, Stefan said:
I don't want to give the impression that I am okay with these lily-White interpretations of what Jesus and the Apostles supposedly looked like. Because I think these depictions are ludicrous.
I've always said those images reflect White Supremacy and a need to claim dominion over everything. Which is why I wanted nothing to do with them.
Some folks demand that everyone accept what they say. After experiencing many years of B.S., hypocrisy and outright lies, I'd rather do my own thinking. I'm on the side of Equality and Life. Not centuries old dogma that dictates who's better than who.I do not want you to accept anything I say or post all I want is for you to express your truths as we reason and learn from each other.
2 hours ago, Stefan said:
And I stay away from those prone to rages, fits of anger and strife. And those who carry a grudge for months.
No one has all the answers. But some would rather scream, insult and hurl accusations - so I tend to downplay what they say.
Somebody who used to act like that online is the guy who tried to get into the FBI offices in Cincinnati. A die-hard Trump supporter who also stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6th. Police ending up shooting him dead.
I am here for fun and to spend the time in fruitful communication.
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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:
Oh, look what I found!
A post actually RELEVANT to the subject of this thread!!!
frankster
Thanks for your questions......
I prefer to use Myth or Legends and Archetypes of the Human Experience
Allegory makes it almost fiction....as the place situation and events of the narrative are now of no real social or historical value
That's the PERCEPTION of what allegories are, but that's because most people don't know the actual definition OF the word "allegory".They haven't been taught the key differences between "myth" "fable" "allegory" "legend" ect...so they think they all mean the same thing.
Allegories are stories that didn't happen but they are UNDERSTOOD (by those who are educated) as not being true but being symbolic. Only those who are NOT educated (and that's most of the public today) believe that allegories are historically true or SHOULD be.
So are you saying that the Stories and Narratives we read in the bible has no basis in historical facts and or Reality?..I think bible stories are based in facts
It is my thought that they do have some basis in historical fact but that the authors took "poetic License" to make a point, teach a lesson or pass on Knowledge.
It akin to making a True To life Movie some parts are embellish to make the movie interesting catching or memorable.
2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:Is there any of the bible stories whose allegorical and symbolic meaning you can share or elucidated the true message behind the story?
I'll give you a good example....the story of Adam and Eve.
The Biblical story of Adam and Eve was an allegory that was taken from earlier sources that were already circulating in the Middle East BEFORE the Bible was put together. Specifically in the Babylon region where the Jews resided at around 600 B.C. and put the Pentetauch together
The STORY of Adam and Hawawa (later translated as "Eve") is was actually an allegory devised by secret societies in Babylon (among other places) to symbolically tell the story of the making of the White race and them being driven from Africa/Arabia into the Caucasus mountains.
Infact, if you read Chapter 3 of Genesis, they TELL YOU plainly that Adam isn't ONE person but represents a GROUP of people.
Also, the word "Adam" means BLUSHER.
One who shows blood.....a good description of most Caucasians.The Expulsion from Eden is God's way of weaning Man....Man is No longer a Brute but Sapient nor just a Nomadic hunter/gatherer.
Are Chinese people considered caucasian and do they blush?
I thought Adam meant Earth Ground or Dust, and that the Story is telling us that all human beings are One Family
2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:Are you then saying there is no historical value in this stories?
Honestly, I'm not sure.
I can't say that the Bible is 100% false.
I believe there is SOME truth to it just like there is SOME falsehood; but since we can't decipher the two too accurately then I can't accept the book as a true "history" book and definitely not a Divine book.
If there's ANY falsehood in it...that cancels out it being labeled "divine".Thanks for the Honesty....Neither can I say the the bible is a 100% true
I know there is Truth in the bible.
The Bible is more than a history book
How would you recognize a "Divine Book"?
How do you know that what you label as "falsehood" is not just you not understand the message or truths it imparting?
2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:What is the Name of this "Greater Caucasian Civilization"?
I don't know if they had an actual name but the BRANCHES of the various Caucasians were known as Aryans, Akkadians, Teutons, Visgoths, ect..
The Mythical "Greater Caucasian Civilization" would have to be in my estimation the Aryans....The Aryans are and were Persians
2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:Are Semites Considered Caucasians?
Some are, some aren't.
Semites......which is actually a made up term taken from the Bible for the supposed descendants of Shem...were the DESCENDANTS of the first Caucasians to came down from the Caucasus mountains and began roaming around and eventually settling down in the deserts of Arabia and Iran/Iraq.The original ones were Caucasian but they became mixed with the original Black residents of the lands they conquered and settled into.
This is the primary reason why so many Jews and Arabs come in different colors today.
And who do these Caucasians Descend from?
2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:
So when the bible says in Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" is that symbolic and has another meaning?In my OPINION....no.
It's simply Moses instructing the Israelites (a branch of the Caucasian race) not to lie on a fellow Israelite during a trial when they are accused of wrong doing.Many people think this commandment means "don't tell a lie" but it's actually SPECIFIC.
First, it...like the other commandments...aren't for ALL humans but specifically for the Israelites.
Second, when it says "neighbor" it's talking specifically of fellow Israelites, not the other races or ethnic groups they came into contact with.
Moses was one of the "law givers" of the Caucasian people. He took some of ancient Egypt's laws and books and brought it up to them to help civilize them from their savage condition.Neighbor means someone living close to you or with whom you associate, not necessarily a tribal affiliate.
Honesty is the basis of all long term mutually beneficial relationship...
2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:Do you know any of the true stories behind any of these allegories and or their real meaning?
I know a few.
The example I gave you about Adam, Eve, and the Garden is just one.
Cool
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26 minutes ago, Stefan said:
@frankster
People have visions if they bump their head really hard on shelves, car doors, slipping on icy sidewalks and of course partaking of certain substances, even cough medicine with codeine.Yes...
If you see someone in a vision that you know then you will recognize that person and will often point idiosyncrasies particular to that person.
26 minutes ago, Stefan said:
Yeah, the Apostle John knew Jesus when he was on Earth. So did 11 of his Apostles.
The Mary that was weeping as Jesus was dying at Golgatha was truly sad. She is Mary Magdalene, one of seven Mary's mentioned in the Bible who is connected with Jesus. She knew what he looked like.
However, after Jesus was impaled, he was interred in a hewn rock tomb provided by Joseph of Arimethea, a secret believerin Jesus. A heavy block of stone sealed the tomb. Mary Magdalene managed to procure some extra spices to perfume the body and in the morning she and a few others walked back to the tomb.
She was amazed that the heavy stone had been moved away. Mary peered inside. The tomb was empty.
She saw a man sitting outside and thinking he was a gardener, Mary M. asked him "do know where they have taken my Lord?"
Because she had no idea who this man was. Only after he spoke to her, calling her by her name did she recognize the man was actually Jesus. The women rushed to tell the surviving disciples who as you might expect, thought them a bit daft.
There are two more experiences like this in the Gospel accounts. One includes two disciples who were not part of the original 12, who were walking from Jerusalem to Emmaus. Jesus simply walked beside them and spoke about making James and John "fishers of men." The men had no idea who was talking to them. Only after a night had passed, did the men recognize who was actually talking to them.This is natural they all saw him die....no one would expect to see him alive ....
Again who knows what the experience of death and resurrection does to the body.
In the end they all realize who he was....because they knew him in life.
26 minutes ago, Stefan said:
Thomas, the Apostle who doubted Jesus had been resurrected and famously said "unless I see in his hands the prints of the nail and stick my finger in the print of the nails and his side," he would not believe. But after seeing Jesus as a resurrected man, he exclaimed "My Lord, My God." Don't know if Thomas did any sticking of his finger, but he was satisfied. Jesus told Thomas: "Happy are those who do not see me and believe."Good for Thomas he now has the proof he required.
26 minutes ago, Stefan said:
Jesus appeared to many after he was resurrected. There is not much recorded about the reactions of those who saw him. So, I tend to dismiss claims of what he looked like. Mostly, because it does not matter to me. I'll let others come to blows over skin color of Bible characters.Good for you...though i find that a little disingenuous due to the fact you did research for this thread you posted on this very topic
It seems you went to some length to show where many of the people in the bible cannot be proven to black African...that's either duplicity or altruism.
26 minutes ago, Stefan said:
So, knowing what Jesus looked like when he was alive does not necessarily mean that anyone would easily recognize him after he was resurrected. Mary Magdalene surely didn't. The account starts at John 18:1.
What is important is what he looked like before his crucifixion....that's how his friends and the world at the time knew Him - Jesus physical phenotype.
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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:
Apparently most of you don't know what an ALLEGORY is.
An ALLEGORY is basically a symbolic story.
A story used to conceal certain historical events and facts that weren't meant for the public to know.
It's not the same as a myth or a fable, it has a specific purpose and that's to conceal truths from the general public and put it in symbolism so that only those in certain societies with the proper "keys" of understanding can figure out the true meaning behind the message/story.
The Bible is full of ALLEGORIES.I prefer to use Myth or Legends and Archetypes of the Human Experience
Allegory makes it almost fiction....as the place situation and events of the narrative are now of no real social or historical value
Is there any of the bible stories whose allegorical and symbolic meaning you can share or elucidated the true message behind the story?
1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:
The Bible is a book made up not only of many different books stitched together over thousands of years by different authors and authorities, but even it's most basic section....The Pentateuch....is a collection of allegories that were stitched together by Jewish scholars in Babylon around 500 B.C.
The stories of Adam and Eve as well as the story of Noah's Ark are ALLEGORIES that the Jewish scholars took from earlier Akadian and Persian civilizations.Are you then saying there is no historical value in this stories?
1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:Akadian and Persian civilizations were different branches of a greater Caucasian civilization that spread in different directions from the Caucasus mountains. Most of them share the same "Adam and Eve" stories and "Great Flood" stories because they all got these stories from the same source. Caucasian scholars who told these stories as ALLEGORIES for various scholars in secret societies to read and understand the true meaning behind them.
What is the Name of this "Greater Caucasian Civilization"?
Are Semites Considered Caucasians?
1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:
The average person reads the Bible and many of these other so-called holy books and assumes these stories are historically correct and actually did happen. But those who are TRAINED and EDUCATED in theology like many Catholic priests, bishops, and other Biblical scholars have been taught that these stories are false....never happened....and are taught the true meaning behind them as well as why they were made up in the first place.Most Jewish Rabbis and most Catholic priests don't believe the stories of the Bible.
Have a conversation with them and you'll see I'm telling the truth.So when the bible says in Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" is that symbolic and has another meaning?
1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:
They'll tell you it doesn't matter whether the Jews were enslaved in Egypt or if all people come from Adam because yada yada yada.....but basically they're telling you they don't even believe in their own so-called "holy book".
They know better.
They know they are ALLEGORIES that are devised to cover up the truth behind the story.Do you know any of the true stories behind any of these allegories and or their real meaning?
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1 hour ago, Stefan said:
@frankster
The scriptures you cite from Revelation are part of several visions were that written down by the Apostle John. The guy was pretty old by then and imprisoned on the Greek island of Patmos.According to the bible did John actually knew Jesus when he was alive?
1 hour ago, Stefan said:This has little to do with John's writing since the visions were from God.
That only lends more credibility to the visions
1 hour ago, Stefan said:But the visions John saw are NOT reality. John was describing the appearance of Jesus' hair in a vision. It is not literal. And the figure's eyes were like fiery flame. Don't know why everybody wants to forget about that part?
Yes and He knew what Jesus hair looked Like in Life...
When My love one is angry zealous fervent spirited or ardent I can see the fire in their eyes
1 hour ago, Stefan said:
Did you know that Daniel experienced a similar vision of the "Ancient of Days?" The figure Daniel saw is described as having white hair like clean wool. [Yes I did quote that passage too.
1 hour ago, Stefan said:Revelation also includes visions of a seven headed dragon with ten horns or diadems and a beast arising out of sea with the number "666" emblazoned on its body. Ever see one of those? They're not real.
They're visions.Exactly they are Visions and you describe what you see..
A vision is akin to a waking dream...and when I see my brother riding a dragon in a dream/vision, I know its my brother because I knew him in life - I recognize his appearance by his looks. John Knew Jesus
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On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:
Over the years, I've encountered many individuals who remain curious about who was Black in the Bible. A lot of them spout legends and myths are absolute falsehoods. Some even mention individuals who actually never appear in the Scriptures.
So I did research and here are my findings. When compiling this data, I incorporated the claims made on different Websites and by individuals.
I chose to stick with only what I found in the Bible. This way, I would not codify legends, myths and feel good tales. That's how we ended up with a White Jesus.
Is the description below of Jesus?
Revelation 1:14-15.
His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.
Daniel 7:9
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:
One of the things that stood out is that the Bible rarely mentions the skin color of individuals, despite widespread belief to the contrary.
1) Some believe the Queen of Sheba was named Makeda and that she was Black. But there is no mention of Makeda in the Bible.The Queen of Sheba is indeed mentioned in the Bible throughout the 10th Chapter of 1st Kings. But she is neither identified, nor described. Nor is the location of her queendom's location given.
But the Scriptures do indicate the Queen of Sheba did bring immense treasures in gold, precious stones and spices to King Solomon after hearing how God blessed this ruler with incredible wisdom.
Why Not?
After all she was the Queen of Sheba a kingdom located in Southern Arabia and Eastern Ethiopia think modern day Yemen
Genesis 10:7
And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan
On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:
2) Zipporah was definitely Black and she was the Cushite wife of Moses. How do we know Cushites were Black? ( I got a lot of blowback about this from non-Blacks, which I ignored ). Let's deal with what The Bible says.
Well in the Bible Book of Numbers, the brother and sister of Moses took issue with Moses' choice of a wife. "And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had married: For he had married a Cushite woman." (Num. 12:1).
Some translations use Ethiopian instead of Cushite. I also believe this is the first Biblical reference to an interracial marriage.
At Jeremiah 13:23, it reads: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?" Judging from the color of a leopard's spots, it is easy to discern that the skin color Jeremiah is referring to is Black.
3) The claim that Pharaohs were Black cannot be proven. Because the Bible never identifies the skin color of Egyptians during the time of Exodus. If you run into anyone who claims the Bible does this, ask them to show you the scripture.
If we accept the prevailing and accepted assumption that Ham is the Father of the Black Africans then Egypt is one of his son...Mizraim is the Hebrew word for Egypt or Egypt is the Greek word for Mizraim
Genesis 10:6
The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:The oft-repeated claim that Egypt and Ethiopia are one is untrue. The Bible does indeed mention Africa, but it does so by specifically noting exact regions of the continent, such as Egypt or Cush. And remember, the Bible rarely identifies skin color.
Not One but Ethnically the same
On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:
Instead, the Bible usually denotes a geographic area, tribe or lineage.
Notable exceptions include the young man from the Song of Solomon who fell in love with a Black girl. The young man is identified as having a ruddy complexion. (Song of Solomon 5:10)
4) When it comes to Ham, take care to recall that the Bible rarely identifies skin color. And so it is with Ham, one of the three sons of Noah. Ham's complexion is never noted in the Bible. So, how could someone claim he was Black?
Now, Cush, a grandson of Noah, and a son of Ham, is thought by serious Bible scholars to be the Father of the Black race. I will also note that it was Caanan and not Cush, who was cursed by Noah for uncovering his grandfather's nakedness. (Gen. 9:24-26)
Who are these serious bible scholars who think Ham is not the Father of the Black African Ethnic Peoples?
On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:5) Nimrod was described in the Bible as "a mighty hunter in opposition to the Lord." He is a Son of Cush. (1st Chronicles 1:10) The rabbinical writings derived the name Nimrod from the Hebrew verb ma•radhʹ, meaning “rebel.” There is so much confusion among some Blacks over Nimrod. Some think of him as a hero.
But the Bible merely claims Nimrod was a rebel against God. Thus, the Babylonian Talmud (Erubin 53a) states: “Why, then, was he called Nimrod? Because he stirred up the whole world to rebel (himrid) against His [God’s] sovereignty.” — Encyclopedia of Biblical Interpretation, by Menahem M. Kasher, Vol. II, 1955, p. 79.
Now, I don't know about you. But I never want to be on the side of someone who is a rebel against The Almighty.
The Importance of Nimrod is that he was the ruler and founder of the first Known biblical civilisation Sumer/Babylon/Chaldea/ a state/country many thought was not Black African.
Genesis 10:8-12
Cush fathered Nimrod; he was the first on earth to be a mighty man.1 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. Therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The beginning of his kingdom was pBabel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in qthe land of Shinar. 11 From that land he went into Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, Calah, and 12 Resen between Nineveh and Calah; that is the great city.
On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:6) In the Bible, Hagar is described as Sarah’s Egyptian maidservant; and later, Abraham’s concubine and the mother of Ishmael. Again, some Black people are taking much liberal license by claiming everyone in Egypt was Black. Remember, the Bible identifies Egypt and Ethiopia separately.
Were there dark skinned Egyptians during the time of Abraham and Sarah? Probably, but no one can say for certain. But if you look at some dark skinned indigenous Egyptians alive today, there seems to be a great possibility.
But was Hagar's skin dark? The Bible does not say. So, one must not make assumptions that it was.Why Not?
Egypt is in Africa
On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:
7) Asenath, is supposed to be the daughter of an Egyptian priest. Again, no description of this woman is given in the Bible. So, one cannot call her Black.
Tirhaka, also known as Taharga, was indeed Black and he did have an army of chariots who came to the aid of Israelite King Hezekiah.
The Israelite king had launched a revolt against Assyrian King Sennacherib. Tirhaka is also identified as Pharaoh Taharqa, so he was linked to Egypt. However, the dates generally assigned by modern historians to Tirhaka's rule do not match up with Biblical chronology.
By the way, the revolt failed. Sennacherib's forces kicked the living crap out of Hezekiah's and Tirhaka's armies, according to the Bible.
An Assyrian inscription, though not mentioning Tirhakah, indicates that Sennacherib defeated the forces that came from Egypt and captured “the charioteers of the king of Ethiopia.”
The next Assyrian king, Esar-haddon, boasted about his conquest of Egypt, saying: “Its king, Tirhakah, I wounded five times with arrow shots and ruled over his entire country.”
During the reign of Esar-haddon’s son and successor Ashurbanipal, Tirhakah revolted against submission to Assyria. But, according to Ashurbanipal, “the terror of the (sacred) weapon of Ashur, my lord, overcame Tirhakah where he had taken refuge and he was never heard of again.” — Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. Pritchard, 1974, pp. 287, 288, 290, 295.
9) Zerah, the Cushite. Zerah is described in the Bible to be an Ethiopian, or Cushite, who led a huge army of a million men and 300 chariots into Judah during Asa’s reign, in 967 B.C.E. However, Zerah was defeated, and his fleeing forces were pursued and slaughtered “as far as Gerar.” (2nd Chronicles 14:1, 9-15)
10) Eded-melech was an Ethiopian eunuch in the house of King Zedekiah. Though Ethiopian, Ebed-melech worshiped the God of the Israelites. When the princes of Judah falsely charged the Prophet Jeremiah with sedition, Zedekiah threw him into a cistern to die without food.
Ebed-melech appealed to Zedekiah to save Jeremiah and later with 30 men, he pulled God’s prophet from the cistern and saved his life. God told Ebed-melech he would not die in the coming siege of Jerusalem by Babylonian forces, but would escape.
11) ) Symeon is another Black man in the Bible. He was from Niger, in Africa. (Acts 13:1). Symeon was an early believer in Jesus, the Christ. There is no indication that Symeon carried the wood that Jesus was impaled upon.
Symeon is also one of the prophets and teachers of the congregation in Antioch, Syria, who laid their hands on Barnabas and Paul after the Holy Spirit had designated these two for missionary work. Symeon’s Latin surname was Niger.
If anyone has the name of another individual thought to be Black and in the Bible, let's check it out.
I have no argument with the above....peace and love.
Black People in the Bible
in Culture, Race & Economy
Posted
True....The Laws of Nature does not submit to our suppositions of Right and Wrong or Good and Bad
Who among us no the Mind or plans Of God
The Old must die for the New To thrive
Name calling and screaming are Words.....be careful they do not perturb you
Words are Powerful Tools....."the tongue is mightier than the sword" - To paraphrased.
Wow I would love to visit some of the more vile and argumentative filled forums....do you care to recommend the worst of the lot???