Post-9/11 World

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

This leaves all of the engineering schools in America with a peculiar physics problem. How do they explain the collapses without talking about the distribution of steel down the towers?

To the most concerned, the fact that engineers have chosen not to tackle the physics problem for 23 years today tells us something too. 

 

I still believe just as there is no incentive in curing cancer and other diseases, leaving  *problems* unsolved generates more money. 

 

Folks can make  make millions of dollars writing books or producing movies using some aspect of that physics *problem* as source material. 

 

For example, there's no shortage of action movies centered around terrorism.

[Troy]

@umbrarchist sense like you should watch the 60 minutes broadcast and see what you think about their explanation of why the buildings collapsed.

 

You’ve got this bee in your bonnet somehow I doubt there is anything that can be said to dissuade you… on summer level that is human nature.

 

 The video you shared was interesting I watched about an hour of it and the personal stories were fascinating.

[umbrarchist]

14 hours ago, Troy said:

@umbrarchist sense like you should watch the 60 minutes broadcast and see what you think about their explanation of why the buildings collapsed.

 

You’ve got this bee in your bonnet somehow I doubt there is anything that can be said to dissuade you… on summer level that is human nature.

 

 The video you shared was interesting I watched about an hour of it and the personal stories were fascinating.

 

How many people are killed in traffic accidents in the US every year?

 

30,000+

 

That has been happening in the US since the 1950s. That does not count injuries. Do not take my word.

 

How many Americans died in Afghanistan with their mothers believing that a 200 ton airliner could destroy a 500,000 ton building in less than 2 hours?

 

What is EDUCATION?!?!?

 

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[ProfD]

13 minutes ago, umbrarchist said:

How many people are killed in traffic accidents in the US every year?

 

30,000+

 

That has been happening in the US since the 1950s. That does not count injuries. Do not take my word.

Those numbers haven't motivated people to stop driving.  In fact, there are even more cars on the roads. 

 

Don't look know but self-driving vehicles are coming to a street nearby in a couple of years.

13 minutes ago, umbrarchist said:

How many Americans died in Afghanistan with their mothers believing that a 200 ton airliner could destroy a 500,000 ton building in less than 2 hours?

Most mothers and fathers and people in general aren't thinking about a plane hitting a building and destroying it.  Especially not 2 decades after the fact.

13 minutes ago, umbrarchist said:

What is EDUCATION?!?!?

The goal of education is to equip people with enough skills to become productive members of society and stimulate economic growth. 

 

Most of the crap people learn is window dressing of no practical use.

[umbrarchist]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

 

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Most mothers and fathers and people in general aren't thinking about a plane hitting a building and destroying it.  Especially not 2 decades after the fact.

The goal of education is to equip people with enough skills to become productive members of society and stimulate economic growth. 

 

Most of the crap people learn is window dressing of no practical use.

So accounting should be mandatory in high schools so people can best serve their own economic interests.

 

Of course this Must bring up PHYSICS because of depreciation. Automobiles are engineering, which is applied Physics.  How many people know what a Bathtub Curve is? The reliability and durability of machines can be tested, measured and specified. So the Depreciation rate of individual machine designs should be known before purchase.

 

What happened to the price of the Model T Ford from 1908 to 1926?

 

What would people think about the Twin Towers NOW if Academia had done its job before 2005?

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Edited September 12, 2024 by umbrarchist
Correct punctuation

[Troy]

6 hours ago, ProfD said:

self-driving vehicles

 

They are already on the road.  I drove a tesla, in self-drove mode. It is arguably a better driver than I am.

 

You can hail a self-driving cab in San Francisco today and there are self-driving buses and truck on the road now.

 

4 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

What happened to the price of the Model T Ford from 1908 to 1926?

 

The price dropped dramatically from roughly 12 times the average annual wage in 1908 to less than three times the annual wage in 1925.  Today a car costs 0.7 of one's annual salary.  What does this have to do with the WTC?

 

{forgive my typos when you dictate, autocorrect changes thing after you reviewed it}

[umbrarchist]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

 

The price dropped dramatically from roughly 12 times the average annual wage in 1908 to less than three times the annual wage in 1925.  Today a car costs 0.7 of one's annual salary.  What does this have to do with the WTC?

Got a link to those statistics?

 

You said:

The goal of education is to equip people with enough skills to become productive members of society and stimulate economic growth. 

 

That sounds like being indoctrinated to be a good productive pawn.  To me being "educated" means understanding how reality works, physically and socially. That means being able to figure out when someone is lying to you. Including planned obsolescence in automobiles along with the physics of skyscrapers.

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Edited September 13, 2024 by umbrarchist
Had to read previous post to respond

[Troy]

No, I derived them from various sources.  The price of the Model T Ford in1908 and 1926?  The average price of a car in 2024 and the average annual wages for people in each of those years.  I factored in the present value of 1908 and 1926 wages and Model T prices in 2024 dollars. 

 

10 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

You said:

The goal of education is to equip people with enough skills to become productive members of society and stimulate economic growth. 

 

I did not say this, but I agree with it the good @ProfD. The public education is designed to teach you how to work and to be a good citizen. 

 

Being "Educated" is a completely different matter. 

 

 

[ProfD]

11 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

You said:

The goal of education is to equip people with enough skills to become productive members of society and stimulate economic growth. 

 

That sounds like being indoctrinated to be a good productive pawn.  To me being "educated" means understanding how reality works, physically and socially. That means being able to figure out when someone is lying to you. Including planned obsolescence in automobiles along with the physics of skyscrapers.

The educational system is designed to create productive pawns in a capitalistic society. 

 

In order to survive, people have to be educated in how to work with their minds or hands or both. 

 

Being able to figure out when someone is lying (psychology), planned obsolescence and depreciation (economics) and building construction (engineering) and structural failures on impact (Physics (science)) would be classified as areas of study.  There is money to be made in those disciplines too. 

 

After an individual learns how to produce in order to secure food, clothing and shelter (survive), they can get into other areas of entertainment (philosophy, religion, sports, music, art, etc.).   There is money to be made in those areas too.

 

Understanding how reality works doesn't put food in one's belly or a roof over their head.  Being productive takes care of those needs.  Education in in the form of knowledge and skill development is the foundation.

[umbrarchist]

3 hours ago, ProfD said:

Understanding how reality works doesn't put food in one's belly or a roof over their head.  Being productive takes care of those needs.  Education in in the form of knowledge and skill development is the foundation.

Understanding how reality works can help you fix minor problems on your car and get you to work.  And replace a faulty light switch in the apartment building I owned so I didn't have to wait for and pay an electrician.

 

I am not into abstract never Neverland bullshit.

 

Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan Gibilisco 

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[ProfD]

1 hour ago, umbrarchist said:

Understanding how reality works can help you fix minor problems on your car and get you to work.  And replace a faulty light switch in the apartment building I owned so I didn't have to wait for and pay an electrician.

Understanding how things work and knowing how to fix them is a great knowledge/skill to have and saves time and money. 

 

Still, there's a reason that mechanics, electricians and other tradesmen exist too.

 

While I enjoy being a jack-of-all trades, I totally understand why it isn't for everybody as well. 

 

Getting waist deep into a plumbing job isn't a fun experience.

 

Schools certainly can't teach everyone, everything, all at once either.

[umbrarchist]

11 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

Getting waist deep into a plumbing job isn't a fun experience.

 

No shit! I paid for the waist deep ones. But there are so many minor ones that add up.

 

11 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

Schools certainly can't teach everyone, everything, all at once either.

 

The problem is finding the right books. I was reading about electronics when I was in high school, not as a result of school. It was what I taught myself in high school not the theoretical never never land stuff from engineering school that got me my first job at Panasonic. 

 

What books do Black adults suggest to kids? Then there is negative social pressure from supposed peers. 

 

"You are a scholar and a gentleman."

 

Two boys paid me to take their SATs though. They were not friends 

 

Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan Gibilisco 

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[umbrarchist]

What I call “The Twin Towers Affair” is an ongoing problem. Obviously “The Twin Towers Event” is what happened On 9/11.

 

Could a 200 ton airliner including 34 tons of jet fuel totally destroy a 500,000 ton, 1,430 foot (including 70 ft of basements) building in less than 2 hours by ultimately making it collapse straight down in less than 30 seconds?

What do we need to know to even speculate competently?

Let's start by accepting that the towers had to hold themselves up, therefore the designers had to figure out how to distribute the steel. Level 105 had to support the weight of 5 more stories. Level 5 had to support the weight of 21 times as many stories. Do you think level 105 contained as much steel as level 5?

 

So is it unreasonable to expect to be told the distribution of steel down the Twin Towers in Twenty Three Years? But then the NCSTAR1 Report by the NIST with 10,000 pages and a price tag of $16,000,000 does not even specify the total weight of concrete or its volume. Sources before 9/11 specify 425,000 cubic yards but that does not tell the weight because there were two densities, 110 and 150 lb/cubic foot.

 

So how is the likelihood of a 30 second collapse to be judged without knowing the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were in each level of the structures? Where did the Conservation of Momentum go on 9/11? Did it take a vacation?

 

So a significant part of the Twin Towers Affair is finding out why the vast majority of academics, structural engineers, civil engineers and physicists have not been demanding data on the simple stuff about such total destruction in Twenty Three Years?

 

Of course anyone is free to point out where this data is readily available and demonstrate my foolishness to the world. If the name Gregory Urich comes up please excuse my laughter however.

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[ProfD]

23 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

So a significant part of the Twin Towers Affair is finding out why the vast majority of academics, structural engineers, civil engineers and physicists have not been demanding data on the simple stuff about such total destruction in Twenty Three Years?

Just like the public at large, the vast majority mentioned above aren't interested in the Twin Towers Affair.  The annual commemoration is good enough.

[umbrarchist]

13 hours ago, ProfD said:

Just like the public at large, the vast majority mentioned above aren't interested in the Twins Towers Affair.  The annual commemoration is good enough.

Unfortunately the Laws of Physics are not democratic.

 

Physics affects economics too. Cars wear out and therefore Depreciate. The economics profession not talking about that Depreciation does not keep it from happening.

 

I have not heard any economists pointing out the Repo Crisis either.

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[umbrarchist]

 

[umbrarchist]

 

[umbrarchist]

Ever heard of Adam Smith?
Ever heard an economist suggest mandatory accounting in the schools?
In Wealth of Nations Smith used the word 'education' Eighty Times. He wrote "read, write and ACCOUNT" multiple times.

 

The book has been free on the Internet since 2001, check it yourself.
Oh, and Smith wrote about that "Invisible Hand" so much it can be counted on One Finger. The Rich have been giving us The Finger for decades. Lack of accounting keeps it Invisible.
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[umbrarchist]

@michaelemann.bsky.social has blocked you

 

for the following post on BlueSky. LOL

 

It is approaching 24 years since 9/11.

Why are we supposed to respect scientists if they won't ask about & discuss the distribution of steel down the Twin Towers?

 

Even a microbiologist should be able to figure out that skyscrapers must have more steel toward the bottom.

 

Eiffel Tower  !?!?!

 

   

[ProfD]

32 minutes ago, umbrarchist said:

...has blocked you

 

It is approaching 24 years since 9/11. Why are we supposed to respect scientists if they won't ask about & discuss the distribution of steel down the Twin Towers?

 

Even a microbiologist should be able to figure out that skyscrapers must have more steel toward the bottom.

No surprise there especially as most people including engineers and scientists are not concerned with reinvestigating the steel distribution within the Twin Towers. A whole new building sits on that spot.

[umbrarchist]

3 hours ago, ProfD said:

No surprise there especially as most people including engineers and scientists are not concerned with reinvestigating the steel distribution within the Twin Towers. A whole new building sits on that spot.

They might have to investigate why they did not ask such a simple question 20 years ago.

[ProfD]

6 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

They might have to investigate why they did not ask such a simple question 20 years ago.

Well, considering the fact that they are still chasing UFOs/UAPs, maybe there's a chance of circling back to building collapses too.

[umbrarchist]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Well, considering the fact that they are still chasing UFOs/UAPs, maybe there's a chance of circling back to building collapses too.

I am biased, Obviously!

 

But I do not regard it as circling back. To me it is an unresolved physics problem. High school kids should have expected a reasonable answer by 2003. An Answer not a Belief!

 

A 1959 IBM C.A.D.E.T. computer was used to do the calculations for the structural steel. Can you imagine how powerful an iPhone is compared to a 1959 minicomputer?

 

(Of course I am being blasphemous since IBM did not allow the word minicomputer when I was there. )

 

David Chandler is the only high school physics teacher I know of to get involved. He used video to prove that the first 2.5 seconds of the WTC7 collapse was freefall. He forced the NIST to concede.

 

But this is a Social-Psychological issue on a massive scale. The nation that put men on the Moon and has hundreds of skyscrapers across the country cannot talk about the distribution of steel down a couple of skyscrapers.

 

There is an inherent problem here.

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[ProfD]

2 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

To me it is an unresolved physics problem. High school kids should have expected a reasonable answer by 2003.

This is why Robert F. Kennedy Jr. accepted the Secretary of Health and Human Services job.   He has moved from conspiracy theorist to having an opportunity to influence policy and decisions on everything from mandatory vaccines to the chemicals being used in products.

 

2 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

But this is a Social-Psychological issue on a massive scale. The nation that put men on the Moon and has hundreds of skyscrapers across the country cannot talk about the distribution of steel down a couple of skyscrapers.

 

There is an inherent problem here.

Doesn't seem to be an issue or problem to the most powerful people on the planet.  They have moved on from the 9/11 collapse.  Many skyscrapers have been built over the past 24 years too.  Folks still live, work and play in those buildings.

[umbrarchist]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

Doesn't seem to be an issue or problem to the most powerful people on the planet.  They have moved on from the 9/11 collapse.  Many skyscrapers have been built over the past 24 years too.  Folks still live, work and play in those buildings.

You will have a pretty hard time finding any cases of steel frame buildings that stood for more than a year that collapsed due to fire. And you can find some pretty big fires.

The only Three seemed to happen that day.

 

Have you tried finding the distribution of steel for any of those buildings? I have not found it for any skyscraper. That is why I mention the Eiffel Tower. The obvious is obvious.

[umbrarchist]

3 hours ago, ProfD said:

This is why Robert F. Kennedy Jr. accepted the Secretary of Health and Human Services job.   He has moved from conspiracy theorist to having an opportunity to influence policy

What did I ever say about a conspiracy or conspiracy theory regarding any people doing anything to destroy the buildings?

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[ProfD]

1 hour ago, umbrarchist said:

What did I ever say about a conspiracy or conspiracy theory regarding any people doing anything to destroy the buildings?

You didn't mention a conspiracy/theory.

 

If/when we are believe an issue orproblem  deserves wider attention, we have to make a lot of noise and/or be in a position to elevate it.