I was watching a quick video about the mental abuse that Michael Jackson suffered and what prompted him to get plastic surgery and change his appearance so much.

He obviously had low self esteem and had the temperament and sensitivity of a child.

I can understand a little bit of what he went through because I was called ugly so much as a child...even by other family members.
As a kid growing up, I too was told my nose was too big and even though I'm lighter skinned....was often called "Black and Ugly" by some adults and kids.
It WILL fuck up your esteem.
Some more than others.

It's a shame how we as a people often do this to our own children.

I look at other races and how they interact with their children and I often see White and Latina mothers smiling at their children, looking deep in their eyes, kissing on them, playing with them, calling them handsome and beautiful.....and then I look at a lot of AfroAmerican mothers who are constantly yelling at their children and cussing at them and barely looking at them except to scold them or express disappointment.

How can children be expected to grow up well adjusted when they feel that their own community and sometimes their own parents don't even want them?

Michael would not have lasted 5 minutes growing up in my neighborhood... SMH

I don't think Michael's father turned him into the man he became, sadly I believe was just born that way. We all had pimples for Christ's sake. He was actually a handsome guy. I guess he had body dysmorphia. He needed help.

Yeah, clearly Michael was very sensitive.

I get the sense that it may have just been "in" him to be so soft and sensitive but on the other hand he never really got to enjoy a normal functional childhood.
He was forced to behave as an adult since he was 6 or 7....which meant a lot of faking and no actual maturity and emotionally/social growth.

No doubt, his father shared in atleast SOME of his dysfunctionality, because it wasn't just Michael but his other siblings.

Look at Janet and how she got her nose done!

...but growing up in a racist society that told them that unless their skin was light, hair was straight, and nose was thin.....that they were ugly, carries the bulk of the blame.

@Pioneer1 why drag Janet into this? let’s see a picture of you when you were 18 and a picture of you when you were 50 of course you’re gonna look different. What did that prove?

Plenty of white people get those jobs. What are they trying to do make their nose look whiter?

I have no idea what Joe Jackson did to his kids other than help make them global superstars. You clearly have a great deal of affinity for Michael Jackson, and are willing to blame everyone else in the world for his behavior leaving nothing Michael himself other than being “very sensitive.”

I think Michael was a very weird guy at best, a pedophile at worst, who brought joy to a lot of people through his music and dancing.

17 minutes ago, Troy said:

I have no idea what Joe Jackson did to his kids other than help make them global superstars.

I have never criticized Joe Jackson because the reality of the matter is if that father didn't push his offspring into entertainment they probably would have ended up being factory workers in Gary, Indiana.

Nobody can imagine Michael Jackson making widgets or buffing floors in a warehouse & walking back & forth to work with a lunchbox.🤣

Joe jackson, a Black man, did whatever it took to make his family rich. It worked too.😎

Nothing wrong with factory work as long as it pays well.

I'm not just saying that because I work in a warehouse.....lol.....I actually mean it.

Sometimes people overlook the obvious.

Joe Jackson SUPPORTED HIS FAMILY....a family of nearly 10 people....from a FACTORY JOB!

Ofcourse you can make a lot more money IF you become a famous celebrity, but people who are able to achieve this are very few and far in between.

We know about the successes....but how many have failed and fallen into destitution chasing that dream?

How many people with Bachelor Degrees can support a family of even 4 or 5 today?

Let's not overlook the obvious.....

Back in the day you used to hear people who were millionaires or otherwise very successful talk about how their fathers pushed them and their siblings to get an education or be excellent at what they do so they don't have to work hard in a factory like them.

But they were ABLE to work at a factory....because those jobs were available back then!

Now many of those factory jobs are GONE.
Now where are they working?
Many people are locked up behind bars, homeless, or otherwise unemployed WISHING they could work in a factory and make some money like their parents or grandparents did....but don't have that option.

I grew up in a neighborhood where most of the parents were working at car factories and the children all had big dreams about this and that, but they all agreed they DIDN'T want to work at a factory.
Now half of them (those who are still alive) are unemployed, locked up, on drugs, or working low wage non-union jobs.
A handful are what we'd call successful.

Black people should have focused on keeping those factory jobs in America instead of letting them be shipped overseas.
But a lot of our people were lazy and were too focused on "get rich quick" shit like being an entertainer, sports star, or some big time "Superfly" dope dealer.
Anything but waking up early in the morning and taking their ass to work for a decent weeks pay.

As far as Joe Jackson......

It's hard to say whether or not he was a good father because yes he pushed for his children to become successful and kept them out of the streets and supported them.

That's what a father is SUPPOSED to do anyway.

But I heard he was an abusive womanizer as well.

Perhaps the problem is the standard or bar of what it means to be a "good father" has been lowered so much in our community that any nigga who sticks around and feeds his kids is considered "good"...lol.

But I'll leave 'ole Joe alone....lol.

Whatever happened with them is between him and the rest of the Jackson family.

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Nothing wrong with factory work as long as it pays well.

Joe Jackson SUPPORTED HIS FAMILY....a family of nearly 10 people....from a FACTORY JOB!

Right. Working in a factory or warehouse is an honest way to make a living.

Joe Jackson understood it 1sthand which is why he didn't want that for his offspring.

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black people should have focused on keeping those factory jobs in America instead of letting them be shipped overseas.

How could Black folks as employees have stopped white company owners from outsourcing their businesses?

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But a lot of our people were lazy and were too focused on "get rich quick" shit like being an entertainer, sports star, or some big time "Superfly" dope dealer.
Anything but waking up early in the morning and taking their ass to work for a decent weeks pay.

Many of them couldn't go into that same factory job their parents worked because it was gone overseas.

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As far as Joe Jackson......

But I heard he was an abusive womanizer as well.

Katherine Jackson stayed with Joe for a long time. Long after she had more than enough money to leave him.

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But I'll leave 'ole Joe alone....lol.

Whatever happened with them is between him and the rest of the Jackson family.

Sure. But, we shouldn't allow white media to turn a good Black father into a villain.😎

ProfD

How could Black folks as employees have stopped white company owners from outsourcing their businesses?

Many of them couldn't go into that same factory job their parents worked because it was gone overseas.

2 points:

1. If we were properly organized, we would have bought atleast ONE of the big three automakers as well as many of the other steel and coke factories that many of our people were gainfully employeed in for decades and they would have been a legacy of good jobs to leave to our children and grand children.

Infact, instead of buying them we should have risen as high as we could in those jobs and learned the in's and out's of them so that we could have built OUR OWN car, beverage, steel, and other factories!

That's what people who know how to think ahead usually do!

2. If we were REALLY properly organized.....instead of Mexico and China.....we would have convinced the owners of some of these factories to move them to places like Haiti or countries in Africa where they could not only employ the people of those countries as well as move to those nations ourselves to help manage those factories.

But again, that's too far ahead for many of our people's thought processing.

Katherine Jackson stayed with Joe for a long time. Long after she had more than enough money to leave him.

From what I understand, she's a nice woman...religious woman...and somewhat old fashioned.

A lot of women will stay even with the most no good men not just for the money but because they feel it's the "right" thing to do.

Stand by your man.

Sure. But, we shouldn't allow white media to turn a good Black father into a villain.

100!

I think this movie villanizes Joe pretty good...lol....and actually made Mike's White/Whitish? bodyguard look like the good guy.

However guess who directed it?

Antoine Fuqua

Mr. Denzel Mr. Equalizer himself....lol.

I'd hardly call him a sell out.

@Pioneer1 #1 ignore something called competition. If you’re competitors are using low wage labor and foreign companies and sell their products for half of what you were selling yours, you would not be in business very long.

#2 I guess we could exploit the labor in those black countries as well, but then you’ll still be left with the same problem a loss of jobs in the United States

I still have no interest in seeing the new Michael Jackson movie. When I saw TV for free, I still don’t think I will watch it unless I’m with someone who’s really wants to see it.

I don’t know enough about Michael Jackson’s parents to offer an opinion other than to say, my guess is that they did the best they knew how like any of us parents.

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

1. If we were properly organized, we would have bought atleast ONE of the big three automakers as well as many of the other steel and coke factories...

Agreed. As a huge proponent of ownership, Black folks should have bought &/or built factories.

Of course, easier said than done back in those days when white folks had everything on lock.

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

2. If we were REALLY properly organized.....instead of Mexico and China.....we would have convinced the owners of some of these factories to move them to places like Haiti or countries in Africa where they could not only employ the people of those countries as well as move to those nations ourselves to help manage those factories.

IMO, that would have been hustling backwards.

Black folks would have still been employees & susceptible to whatever the white owners decided to do.

Owmership is the only way to insure security & build wealth.

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I think this movie villanizes Joe pretty good...lol....and actually made Mike's White/Whitish? bodyguard look like the good guy.

However guess who directed it?

Antoine Fuqua

Mr. Denzel Mr. Equalizer himself....lol.

I'd hardly call him a sell out.

Reads like the producer, script writers & Fuqua bought into the belief that Joe was a villian.

Yet, they had enough sense to leave out the allegations against MJ.

There are degrees to selling out. Several factors influence it.😎

Troy

#1 ignore something called competition. If you’re competitors are using low wage labor and foreign companies and sell their products for half of what you were selling yours, you would not be in business very long.

It's hard to ignore competition when they're taking your clientel, potential clients, and resources away from you.

#2 I guess we could exploit the labor in those black countries as well, but then you’ll still be left with the same problem a loss of jobs in the United States

It depends on the communities affected.

If Black people owned the factories and could freely travel back and forth between the U.S. and Africa....then there would likely be NO LOSS of jobs in the Black communities of America and any losses would be among the Whites, Asians, and Latinos.

I still have no interest in seeing the new Michael Jackson movie.

You should.

I think you'd like it.

I didn't think I'd like it very much myself until I saw it.

It's not the best movie in the world, but it's probably better than you'd expect for it to be.

It explains a lot of his history that you ordinarily wouldn't have known about him.
I was a little surprised to find out Michael Jackson used real gang members to make his "Beat It" video.

The movie made we want to go back and listen to some of his music and watch some of his videos again with a better history and understanding of them.

ProfD

Of course, easier said than done back in those days when white folks had everything on lock.

Before so-called "Integration" Black folks...especially own South....owned quite a few businesses!

We owned hotels in almost every major city and I heard a few bruthas owned their own entire buslines!

AG Gaston owned a lot.

Black folks would have still been employees & susceptible to whatever the white owners decided to do.

Owmership is the only way to insure security & build wealth.

Facts.

However, working for White folks is better than not working AT ALL.

If White folks are going to own the factories and pay somebody to work, wouldn't you rather the poor and destitute in African nations get the opportunity over the poor and destitute of Mexico or China?

I know you don't have any grave yard love for Africans, but still.....lol.

Reads like the producer, script writers & Fuqua bought into the belief that Joe was a villian.

Lol....I wonder they could have possibly gotten THAT idea from?

Certainly not from the mouths of his own children saying it.

There are degrees to selling out. Several factors influence it

Joe was certainly villainized in this movie, but I'm not sure if I'd call this selling out to ANY degree.

Unless you're suggesting that holding dysfunctional members of our community accountable and calling them to the carpet for their behavior....an act of "selling out".

I don't support the idea of running to White folks and tattling every misdeed one of our brothers makes or setting them up to be targeted and punished by White folks; however WE need to hold OUR OWN accountable.

Especially if we don't want the heavy hand of the White establishment to come in and do it in our stead.

If a man is abusing his children or other children WE need to hold him accountable.

Don't make excuses for it and let it go until White folks get wind of it and use that as an excuse to lock him up for 100 years.

Afrika Bambaataa and R. Kelly are two examples of what happens with we fail keep our own in check.

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Before so-called "Integration" Black folks...especially own South....owned quite a few businesses!

Integration was definitely a blessing & a curse.

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If White folks are going to own the factories and pay somebody to work, wouldn't you rather the poor and destitute in African nations get the opportunity over the poor and destitute of Mexico or China?

I know you don't have any grave yard love for Africans, but still.....lol.

Sure. I'd rather see Africans get the work.

I'd prefer that Black folks own the industries & businesses & resources especially in their own countries.

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Lol....I wonder they could have possibly gotten THAT idea from?

Certainly not from the mouths of his own children saying it.

Even if Joe Jackson's own offspring claimed he was abusive, they could've dealt with him accordingly especially once grown & successful & rich.

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Joe was certainly villainized in this movie, but I'm not sure if I'd call this selling out to ANY degree.

Unless you're suggesting that holding dysfunctional members of our community accountable and calling them to the carpet for their behavior....an act of "selling out".

The same way they didn't include allegations against MJ they could've left Joe out too. The movie is about MJ. Focus should've stayed on him.

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

...however WE need to hold OUR OWN accountable.

If a man is abusing his children or other children WE need to hold him accountable.

Afrika Bambaataa and R. Kelly are two examples of what happens with we fail keep our own in check.

Absolutely. Black men should be responsible for keeping each other & by extension our families in check.

N8gglets who had 1sthand knowledge of Joe Jackson or Bambaataa or R. Kelly or P. Diddy wrongdoing should've handled that bizness accordingly.

There's never a shortage of n8gglets both males & females around these people. They're aware of the foolishness. Money & fame make them either turn a blind eye &/or keep their mouths shut.

Black folks should be the 1st to check it. Way before white law enforcement & their judicial system gets involved. 😎

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I didn't think I'd like it very much myself until I saw it.

OK, what is streaming, I’ll check it out.