@frankster With all of our discussion about Freedom and Restrictions.....let us not confuse Freedom with Liberty.

Although they're closely related, they are actually two separate concepts....lol

Brotha @Pioneer1 beat me to the punch in starting a separate thread about freedom.

Adding liberty to the mix ends the circular nature of the discussion in the Captain Traore thread.😁

Liberty is the freedom people have in civilized societies.😎

7 hours ago, ProfD said:

Adding liberty to the mix ends the circular nature of the discussion in the Captain Traore thread.😁

Or opens up a new theater.....lol.

16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

@frankster With all of our discussion about Freedom and Restrictions.....let us not confuse Freedom with Liberty.

Although they're closely related, they are actually two separate concepts....lol

True....

The following is my definition of them....

Freedom is a Natural Inheritance or State...

Liberty is a form of Political Freedom granted by Societies to its members....

10 hours ago, ProfD said:

Brotha @Pioneer1 beat me to the punch in starting a separate thread about freedom.

cool

10 hours ago, ProfD said:

Adding liberty to the mix ends the circular nature of the discussion in the Captain Traore thread.😁

You mean someone being intellectually dishonest....by being ambiguous and switching up - that is not going to end

10 hours ago, ProfD said:

Liberty is the freedom people have in civilized societies.😎

true

frankster

31 minutes ago, frankster said:

Liberty is a form of Political Freedom granted by Societies to its members....

Interesting definition.

My definition of Liberty is the state of having few restrictions.
The fewer the restrictions....the more the Liberty.

So while I don't believe in "degrees of freedom", by that definition there can indeed be DEGREES OF LIBERTY.

34 minutes ago, frankster said:

You mean someone being intellectually dishonest....by being ambiguous and switching up - that is not going to end

Perhaps it is the detailed expression of ideas and their proper articulation rather than making broad sweeping generalizations and holding extreme beliefs.....that you are CONFUSING with "ambiguity" "switching up" and "dishonesty".

A fool will look at a Mayor, a Governor, and a President each occupying positions in Executive Office, and say:



"Ok, so which one is in charge?

I thought the President held the executive office, but now they're saying the Mayor holds the executive office.

And the other day on television somebody said they were running for the executive office of Governor!

Somebody is lying to us.
Somebody is being dishonest.
They are trying to switch it up and confuse us.
Everybody can't hold the same office!"


It's not that people are lying or being dishonest; it's that he doesn't have the intellect to understand the complexities of the U.S. political system....lol.

Instead of trying to engage in intelligent discussions above his grade, his ass needs to be slinging a rag at a carwash somewhere....lol.


My point?

The confusion that one may call "dishonesty" or "switching up" only ends when you are intelligent and analytical enough in thought to understand the ideas being presented to you.
At that point...it no longer confuses you or seems like deception and dishonesty because it makes sense to you now. 🌤️

......if you ever reach that point, lol.

Liberty is more formal. It's about Rights. But I don't think we should overstate the difference between Liberty and Freedom. Individuals want Rights - Liberties because they don't want to be constrained. Freedom is about the lack of constraints. And yet their are boundaries, limits, and order. These things prevent harm to self and others. They keep us from imposing on each other in pursuit of the freedoms that Liberties guarantee.

I think a deeper discussion might be about the kinds of Liberties and thus Freedoms a political and social order requires. Is noninterference from the government and other people the only thing that matters? What about the ability to choose to act on your thoughts, desires, and prerogatives as an individual. How do societies and the State undermine this pursuit? How are individuals legally and extra legally deprived of choice?

Keep in mind I'm using my own personal understandings and definitions of "freedom" and "liberty" because they are more absolute and less confusing than what you may find online or in some dictionary which may offer you 12 or 15 different definitions.

They are known as "compensatory definitions" meaning they make up for what's lacking or confusing.