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Troy

Has Anyone See the Film Zeitgeist (2007)?

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I watched this film on Netflix last night (yeah I could have read a book but I was too lazy). It is also available on youtube (I've posted links below). I thought Zeitgeist was fascinating. I don't know how much of it was true, but much of it resonated with me:

I could not understand, from day one, how the Twin Towers simply imploded in on themselves. The collapse of build 7 simply dd not make any sense. I already knew many of the well known stories from the Bible are at the same as much older stories, and religions. I don;t even want to get started on the financial system...

I appreciate that I've shared a lot of information below. If it is too much you can always visit Facebook :P

zeitgeist.jpg

Zeitgeist: The Movie (2007)

http://bit.ly/zeitgeist2007

Full version also available on Youtube (I suggest skipping the first 5 minutes if you watch from the beginning you'll understand -- I almost bailed on the movie before it got going because of the unusual intro)

Zeitgeist: The Movie, by Peter Joseph. Originally released in 2007 as a non-commercial performance work - only later to evolve into an unprecedented internet sensation - Zeitgeist: The Movie is a aesthetically driven documentary film divided into three sections - each a commentary on what the director calls angles of "Social Mythology".

The first section, entitled "The Greatest Story Ever Told", explores the topic of comparative religion, specifically the controversial relationship between early pagan religions and their influence on the Judeo-Christian system of belief as it is practiced and defined today.

The second section, entitled "All the World's a Stage" explores the events of September 11th 2001 from the stand point of inconsistencies, inaccuracies and improbabilities with regard to the official account put forward by the United States Government.

The third section, entitled "Don't Mind the Men Behind the Curtain" explores a series of monetary related and power issues, including central banking, money creation, wars for profit and their pretexts, terrorism, the consequence of excessive security, government corruption and much more. Zeitgeist: The Movie has undergone a series of Updates overtime and the DVD provided here is current, including the 2010 Update.

Please also note that a free 220 page Companion Source Guide which sources virtually everything in the film can be found online. (Simply search for "Zeitgeist Companion Source Guide") Zeitgeist: The Movie was followed in 2008 by a sequel entitled Zeitgeist: Addendum.

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I'm post two different reviews lifted from Amazon. They are both diametrically opposed to each other, but seem to be written by reasonable people. The first is a 1 star (out of 5) review:

1 Star Review

By E. M. Hodge "Cuindless" (Virginia Beach, VA) - See all my reviews

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A3GGHEP5RMOC04

Zeit·geist, noun: The spirit of the time; the taste and outlook characteristic of a period or generation...

This movie has spread through the internet like wildfire, and it's obvious why. It takes the greatest and deepest fears of fringe culture and gives them a voice that not only sounds legitimate but is also done with eloquence and a deep understanding of marketing. From the opening montage of horrific war images set to a cacophany of disrupting sounds, the viewer is placed in a hypnotic spell almost certainly designed to shut down the logical, questioning part of the brain and put the viewer into a completely emotional state. Then... the film talks about Jesus.

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in a god. I'm certainly not a Christian apologetic, so I was very interested in researching what this film had to say further. Unfortunately, I was soon to discover that almost all of this so-called documentaries claims regarding the historicity of Jesus come from a single source: "Acharya S", aka D.M. Murdock, a person without the credentials to make the claims they make. Further, even a cursory examination of the primary sources reveals inconsistencies, misquotes and outright lies. The disputed claims are far too numerous to mention here, but a few tidbits have to be listed for the discerning mind.

First, the earliest depictions of the zodiac do not have 12 signs. Some have as many as 20, such as the Mayans, while others have as few as 4, such as the early Japanese. Second, the movies depiction of Horus is pretty inaccurate. A reading of the Egyptian Book of the Dead reveals that Horus only had 4 disciples, each of whom was semi-divine himself. It further reveals that he wasn't actually killed and was certainly never crucified. It further reveals that his mother, Isis, had intercourse with Osiris to conceive Horus, and while the details of his conception are certainly complex, Isis is not a virgin and the conception is certainly not immaculate. Horus was not born on December 25th, he was born on the 5th day of the "Epagomenal Days", which does not even take place in December on the modern or ancient calendars. The other gods likewise have a series of factual errors. Dionysus was not born of a virgin. His father was Zeus. Mithra did not have 12 disciples, he had thousands upon thousands of servants. Krishna was born on the 19th or 21st of July, and he was the 8th son of a Queen (certainly not a virgin). The list goes on and on and on... The constellation Virgo is never mentioned as the "House of Bread" in any text I can find, there's very little association between astrology and the cross. I could go on for hours.

That's just Part 1.

Part 2 is even worse. The second part starts with the claim that a Pakistani general financed 9/11. The original source of this claim is the Times of India, which is itself unsourced. Given the long history of antagonism between India and Pakistan, the bias of this article can easily be called into question. The "of little significance" quote is taken completely out of context as well. the commission actually said that they knew funding came from Al Qaeda, but where Al Qaeda itself received the money was not known, mainly because they had so many sources of money. They did attempt to track it down, and the leads ran cold. Therefore, "at this time", finding the exact origin of the money used for 9/11 was "of little practical significance". You will note the word "practical" is removed completely in the text of the film. As with Part 1, the errors in Part 2 are simply too numerous to completely list, but there are a few more that deserve some special attention. The film claims that in the 9/11 Commission report, building seven is "not mentioned at all". It is actually mentioned on pages 301, 310, 319, and 322 (twice). Though it should be noted that no explanation for WTC7's collapse is given ni the report, it is still actually mentioned. The 9/11 Commission Report is a large document, and it can be assumed that most viewers haven't actually read it. With that in mind, this inaccuracy is either an outright lie or a representation of the filmakers laziness.

Part 3 continues this trend of misinformation, but is punctuated with edited quotes and quotes taken completely out of context by a whole litany of people, from our nation's founders to modern bankers. Again, the examples are too numerous to mention all of them, but a few need to be expounded on. "The real truth of the matter is that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson." This is attributed to Franklin D. Roosevelt. Unfortunately, it isn't sourced, and a lengthy search did not reveal any source that was not itself a conspiracy theory website. "If you want to remain the slaves of the bankers and pay for the costs of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control the nation's credit." Attributed in the film to Sir Josiah Stamp. While he did indeed say much of this quote, the ending is actually about deposits rather than national credit.

I could continue pointing out error after error after error, but the fact of the matter is that almost the entire film is counterfactual and stemming from a preconceived notion of conspiracy that is not supported by the evidence. The film's aim, getting people to question the truth and think for themselves, is admirable, but then the film goes on to provide a healthy dose of the disease that it's supposed to cure. Misinformation, lies and information taken out of context only serve to further obscure reality rather than make it clearer.

For a full, honest, unbiased and intelligent debunking of the movie, visit [...]. I used this as a starting point for much of the above information.

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5 Stars Review

By BassMan (East Coast) - See all my reviews

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A1MBBLBHDL8W8Z/

This review is from: Zeitgeist: The Movie (DVD)

Truth is found when one chooses to exercise responsibility for their own life.

THE PRODUCER:

Peter Joseph is not presenting any original concepts in this movie. Far from being propaganda, the movie is inspiring as a documentary that attempts to reveal a wealth of misinformation falsely promoted to society for as the basis of our belief systems that we use to make life decisions.

The only original thing in this movie is how the information is presented. Does that mean that Peter Joseph's is correct in all he states; probably not. But there is more truth and accuracy to what he says than what is reported by the Media, Educational and Governmental institutions of our country. Does this make him a conspiracy nut? Perhaps to those that have never questioned whether the story is true.

Part I: Christianity

From the perspective of Zeitgeist, the producer, Peter Joseph, correctly pointed out that Christianity replicates many of the same religious characteristics of Paganism. Jesus was a Jew; there was no immaculate conception in Judaism, nor was there any concept of having an intermediary to go to God.

Further, December 25th, the Immaculate Conception, the resurrection, the 12 disciples, and most of the miracles attributed to Christ are all traits of pagan traditions and Gods that long predated Christianity and have no Judaic roots.

If I am to believe Christianity, than I am must be given to the idea that Jesus the Jew suddenly turned tail on his religion and said I think the Pagan traditions are right let's incorporate those into a new religion called Christianity. NO! Jesus died a Jew at 33 years old and was likely killed with the full knowledge of the Jews who despised his teachings as a threat to their belief system and definitely killed by the Romans as a threat.

Christianity (the Bible) was made from a blend of Jesus' teachings, pagan traditions and politically motivated re-writes of his life by the council of Nicaea. There are no historical documents anywhere that record miracle healings, feeding thousand with 5 loaves and 2 fish, raising the dead, walking on water, Immaculate Conception, rising from the dead and the like DURING the life of Christ. However, there are plenty of doctrines that existed DURING the life of Christ that record lots of other Gods doing these very same things BEFORE Christ! I believe those accounts as much as I believe the Biblical accounts. Those writings don't exist DURING his lifetime because those events probably never happened. Which if it had, would have certainly been recorded during his lifetime. That is why posthumous historical documents are cited as proof, because these types of writings are the only basis for the Christian belief system.

If you were born in Iraq you would likely be a Moslem, in India likely a Hindu, in Israel a Jew. Most Americans would laugh at those religious traditions as ridiculous and fantasy. But being raised as a Christian there is no problem with walking on Water and being resurrected from the dead etc. After all, it says so in the Bible! Circular thinking, it is written in the book therefore it is true. How do you know it is true? Because it is written in the book!

Part II: 9/11

How can one argue that the government wasn't involved in 9/11 but took advantage of it? That is like a defendant saying I knew the money was stolen when I accepted it but I didn't steal it. The CIA knew what was happening and probably aided the effort but, probable did not DIRECTLY plan it.

Think of all the constitutional rights that have been lost since then; through the Patriot Act, illegal war, wire tapping, the right to home invasion, the right to forced searching based on "terrorist" suspicion and far more. I scratch my head when I see a 400 page Patriot Act written and ready to go 1 week after 9/11. To an objective person that watches Congress take months to decide on anything, it appears that USAPA had already been created and was waiting for publication PRIOR to 9/11.

Domestic Security, Surveillance, Border Security and Money Laundering and still Bin Laden is free, Mexicans and other illegal's cross the border at will. Drug trade is alive and well. Airport security doesn't consider meet the most basic of basic security measures for Cargo transfer. What purpose does this bill serve? And why does it have more impact on my taxpaying, surveillanced, American life?

In a cave or in a village, Bin Laden needs and gets dialysis. Americans are patted down, recorded at every stop sign/convenience store/ shopping plaza/place of employment/any other public place, monitored with the money they spend, health records traced and more ironic than anything asked to sign Privacy Notices when seeking treatment that simply gives permission to their providers to do what they want with the information with no repercussion.

Misinformation, missing information and lies; Zeitgeist does a wonderful job replaying how every national reporter heard loud explosions and believed that the WTC buildings were professionally demolished. Then, one day later, you never hear them mention it ever again, never! Is it just strange coincidence that every major network stopped reporting these two things in unison the very next day? No way! They were instructed/told to/demanded to not to say it!

In fact, even though every reporter stated on 9/11 that the WTCs collapses looked identical to professional demolition and that there were explosions in the buildings (which always precede an implosion) , demolition is never even considered by the Government as a plausible explanation or even as part of the "investigation". Of which there was none anyway! Not until the widows and families that lost loved ones demanded that the government completed one. Yes, that's right a 400 page anti-terror legislation document produced 1 week after 9/11 but no investigation into how it happened and no interest in who funded the terrorists.

M.I.T. sponsored a talk by the "Architects and Engineers for 9 11 truth". These men, who are structural steel engineers with many years of combined Architectural experience, refute the 9-11 Commission's findings that the buildings fell by fire. Are these men conspiracy nuts too? They travel the country giving lectures about the inner workings of a buildings structures and how buildings collapse given different sets of circumstances. They show how a building that collapses by fire falls and then how a collapse by demolition looks. Their conclusion, the WTC collapses all fit the demolition pattern exactly.

It does not take a lot of insight and simple observation to conclude that any one of the 9/11 events have an extremely low probability of happening on any ONE day; NORAD standing down, 19 uneducated me with box cutter hijacking planes, no warning given of terrorist attacks, Cheney in the NORAD bunker during the whole event, vaporized jet engines, 100+ story buildings collapsing at free fall speed due to fires. That they all happened the same day within hours of each other is impossible. Unless of course you choose to believe that people wearing towels on their heads and believe in 30 virgins are something less than men who believe in Christ walking on water and feeding thousands with 2 fish. Than these mysterious beings are easily capable of making this all happen.

One must draw their own conclusions as there is no report from the CIA stating that they planned or assisted this event even if the evidence clearly points in the direction of cover up and a government trying to dismiss logic in favor of fear. Hell fire, brimstone and terrorists!

Part III: The Federal Reserve

Year 2010, the housing bubble has burst, the Fed could not see the coming collapse, large banks have collapsed, the largest government agencies are insolvent and trillions of dollars in debt, the US economy cannot sustain itself, the US consumer is unable to sustain the economy, real unemployment is at 18% and the Federal Reserve has printed $3 trillion as part of their mandate to help "stabilize the value of the dollar" and "maintain a comfortable level of inflation". Err, what was that? A stable dollar and comfortable inflation?

Housing prices that grew at an annualized 30% rate for 4 years was considered a "comfortable" level of inflation and "stabilizing"? The value of the dollar has declined by 98% since 1913, which seems equally acceptable to the men that call for a "Strong dollar policy". Homes, gas, food, insurance, education and clothing have all continued higher in price every single year and inflation is not at a "comfortably" high enough level and so the Fed is printing more money to "stabilize the value of the dollar"! Even more unbelievable, most, if not all of this money went to the very same institutions that created the problem in the first place. Are these statements made to idiots? Or to people that are stated to be "not able to understand the intricacies of the Financial Systems workings"?

Is the "comfortable level of inflation" comment directed to me or you? Or is there another interested party that is involved in wanting asset inflation through a devalued dollar? What kind of business determines their current net worth and future ability to earn profits solely based on the value of the assets listed on their balance sheet? Let me think, I got it! Banks! And who runs the Federal Reserve System? Bankers! Now it makes sense to me, this message is for bankers!

Need a clearer picture of the corruption called the Federal Reserve, start with this. The Federal Reserve controls the US money supply and is a group of private bankers that are not responsible to a political party or directly to any Americans, they are not at all Federal but included this in their name to give the impression that they are governmental, they have the ability to make any decision with the American credit system they choose, came into existence in 1913 by a legislative act that they wrote, and have since amended a number of times since it became law, and is governed by a group of bankers whose strongest influence is the largest cabal of banks in the world. Who watches over the Federal Reserves transactions and business dealings? The Federal Reserve!

Clearly the founding fathers, who were adamantly against Central banking, understood the dangers of such a system.

Does this mean International bankers rule the world and desire control over everyone? Well, if the Federal Reserve is an "American" institution and they have managed to transfer 90% of America's wealth to 1% of the Americans and devalued the dollar by 98% since 1913, then why are the World Bank and IMF, which are the International versions of the Federal Reserve, any different? The principles are the same. Loan money (a.k.a. create debt) at interest and when it cannot be repaid accept ownership in the country in return; ala wealth transfer. Since the money that is loaned is nothing more than paper that is decreed legal tender by law, they get something for nothing. Legal tender ensures everyone is FORCED into using it. When money becomes tracked by a chip in your body or an RFID card, anything you do that is not approved will allow the powers to be to shut off your access to your money! Now that is control!

Wealth is power. It is not hard to conclude that the banks are transferring control of the world to themselves and continually take "legal" actions in the form of legislation and special interest lobbies to ensure that the process continues. International bankers ruling the world does not sound like the conclusion of a conspiratorial nutcase, in fact, I would argue those that refusal to see it that way makes the non-believers the real nutcases.

Those that control the money system make the laws to work in their favor. When events don't turn out as planned by this group, taxpayers get the bill via money printing in the form of Bonds, which is debt, that becomes the financial obligation of the citizens of the country where it is printed. Given the competitive devaluation of global currencies, it appears the world is becoming responsible for a whole lot of printed money and wage/tax slavery to feed the rich is now the norm.

Privatizing profits and socializing losses.

For more information about the Federal Reserve and their history of "Financial Stability" read the "Creature from Jekyll Island"; the truth is contained in those pages.

SUMMARY:

Like religion, those given to being told the truth, rather than seeing and learning the truth are likely to be captives of the story tellers and have neither truth nor Freedom. With free will comes responsibility. You can accept the spoon feeding of stories and go back to bed or be responsible for using your god given powers of reason and logic to understand the world you live in. One way may seem/feel easier than the other, but as more of your tax money goes to Government deficit spending, how many hours of your life's work and personal wealth are you willing to give away before being convinced that there is a clear choice.

Being raised by a government sponsored vision of freedom is not freedom at all. As Ben Franklin wrote; those who are willing to forego a little freedom to have more security deserve neither and will lose both. It's your decision!

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Man, that's some good stuff, Troy! Anything that deals with truth and reality is my cup of tea. I especially appreciate having 2 points of view to consider. This allowed me to distill what resonated with me, and contemplate the criticism that I didn't agree with. Naturally, I dug all that material in regard to religion and paganism.

The problem I always have with conspiracy theories is that their being true would have to require the complicity of so many people. And they lend themselves to romanticizing; the idea of Big Brother or an evil cabal of men is always at the core of these alleged plots.

For almost 50 years people have been debating the assassination of JFK, with clearer heads claiming that this was such a monumental event that many people couldn't wrap their minds around the idea that it was a fluke, - the desperate act of one social misfit. There's also a community of conspiracy buffs who claim the moon landing was a fake, a ploy to outshine Russia in the space race, a deception which would've required all the thousands of people who worked for NASA to have been in on. Others claimed that FDR knew in advance about the plans of Japan to inititate a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, but that he looked the other way because going to war would jump start the sluggish U.S. economy trying to recover from the Depression. Over 50,000 young sons of America lost their lives in WW II. Would a U. S. President really have been a party to this??

The killing of Osama bi Ladin seems to neutralize a lot of the claims about 911 being a conspiracy. Who are these people who want to oppress Americans by using the threat of terrorism to take away their freedoms??? The nebulous mysterious Illuminati? Who really benefits from this?

It really takes an overview to assess truth and reality. There's a truth, and then there is the whole truth. I alway reference the 3 blind men and the elephant analogy; the first blind man upon touching the elephant described it as having rough skin, the next one said it had a little tail, and the third one declared it had a big trunk. They were all telling the truth, just not the entire truth.

When it comes to reality I always look for a parallel in nature or science. And that quantum physics phenomenon that blows my mind and involves not being able to believe your eyes because an image will change when you look away from it, raises questions about the nature of reality. Then there's how an environment allows animals to become invisible by camouflaging them. One person's reality can be another's imagination. A snake in the grass can catch you off guard.

I'm ignorant when it comes to high finance but the theories about funds being controlled by devious greedy bankers doesn't sound so far-fetched.

It's a crazy world, not always what it seems. There is an underworld. The truth is the light but Mankind has a dark side.

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I think the way Osama was killed (was he really killed) actually raised more questions. Why not give him his day in court. Why was the body quickly dumped in the ocean?

While Zeitgeist is an award winning film there is no shortage of entities debunking these films.

Of course I would understand why a Christian would have serious issues with the film -- believing it would completely disrupt their world view.

But I suspect that others who have issues with the 911 conspiracy, Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Lusitania, or our entry into the sustained conflict in Vietnam would have serious issues with the film for the same reason a devout Christian would -- it disrupts their entire world view. Who wants to believe that the US would deliberately kill 3,000 of it own citizens -- for money?!

Now if you ask me, any group of people that would enslave another group of people for hundreds of years, for money, would have less than zero problem killing a few thousand people -- with much higher returns to boot!

Recall how the 2nd Poet Laureate of New Jersey So outraged was the state of New Jersey by the public reading of the poem "Somebody Blew Up America" they eliminated the Poet Laureate position just to get of a man who would dare suggest a conspiracy.

My God! A little old man could intimidate an entire state with just his words...

Somebody Blew Up America

by AMIRI BARAKA

Somebody Blew Up America

They say its some terrorist, some barbaric A Rab, in Afghanistan It wasn’t our American terrorists It wasn’t the Klan or the Skin heads Or the them that blows up nigger Churches, or reincarnates us on Death Row It wasn’t Trent Lott Or David Duke or Giuliani Or Schundler, Helms retiring

It wasn’t The gonorrhea in costume The white sheet diseases That have murdered black people Terrorized reason and sanity Most of humanity, as they pleases

They say (who say?) Who do the saying Who is them paying Who tell the lies Who in disguise Who had the slaves Who got the bux out the Bucks

Who got fat from plantations Who genocided Indians Tried to waste the Black nation

Who live on Wall Street The first plantation Who cut your nuts off Who rape your ma Who lynched your pa

Who got the tar, who got the feathers Who had the match, who set the fires Who killed and hired Who say they God & still be the Devil

Who the biggest only Who the most goodest Who do Jesus resemble

Who created everything Who the smartest Who the greatest Who the richest Who say you ugly and they the goodlookingest

Who define art Who define science

Who made the bombs Who made the guns

Who bought the slaves, who sold them

Who called you them names Who say Dahmer wasn’t insane

Who? Who? Who?

Who stole Puerto Rico Who stole the Indies, the Philipines, Manhattan Australia & The Hebrides Who forced opium on the Chinese

Who own them buildings Who got the money Who think you funny Who locked you up Who own the papers

Who owned the slave ship Who run the army

Who the fake president Who the ruler Who the banker

Who? Who? Who?

Who own the mine Who twist your mind Who got bread Who need peace Who you think need war

Who own the oil Who do no toil Who own the soil Who is not a nigger Who is so great ain’t nobody bigger

Who own this city

Who own the air Who own the water

Who own your crib Who rob and steal and cheat and murder and make lies the truth Who call you uncouth

Who live in the biggest house Who do the biggest crime Who go on vacation anytime

Who killed the most niggers Who killed the most Jews Who killed the most Italians Who killed the most Irish Who killed the most Africans Who killed the most Japanese Who killed the most Latinos

Who? Who? Who?

Who own the ocean

Who own the airplanes Who own the malls Who own television Who own radio

Who own what ain’t even known to be owned Who own the owners that ain’t the real owners

Who own the suburbs Who suck the cities Who make the laws

Who made Bush president Who believe the confederate flag need to be flying Who talk about democracy and be lying

Who the Beast in Revelations Who 666 Who know who decide Jesus get crucified

Who the Devil on the real side Who got rich from Armenian genocide

Who the biggest terrorist Who change the bible Who killed the most people Who do the most evil Who don’t worry about survival

Who have the colonies Who stole the most land Who rule the world Who say they good but only do evil Who the biggest executioner

Who? Who? Who?

Who own the oil Who want more oil Who told you what you think that later you find out a lie

Who? Who? Who?

Who found Bin Laden, maybe they Satan Who pay the CIA, Who knew the bomb was gonna blow Who know why the terrorists Learned to fly in Florida, San Diego

Who know why Five Israelis was filming the explosion And cracking they sides at the notion

Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain’t goin’ nowhere

Who make the credit cards Who get the biggest tax cut Who walked out of the Conference Against Racism Who killed Malcolm, Kennedy & his Brother Who killed Dr King, Who would want such a thing? Are they linked to the murder of Lincoln?

Who invaded Grenada Who made money from apartheid Who keep the Irish a colony Who overthrow Chile and Nicaragua later

Who killed David Sibeko, Chris Hani, the same ones who killed Biko, Cabral, Neruda, Allende, Che Guevara, Sandino,

Who killed Kabila, the ones who wasted Lumumba, Mondlane, Betty Shabazz, Die, Princess Di, Ralph Featherstone, Little Bobby

Who locked up Mandela, Dhoruba, Geronimo, Assata, Mumia, Garvey, Dashiell Hammett, Alphaeus Hutton

Who killed Huey Newton, Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers, Mikey Smith, Walter Rodney, Was it the ones who tried to poison Fidel Who tried to keep the Vietnamese Oppressed

Who put a price on Lenin’s head

Who put the Jews in ovens, and who helped them do it Who said “America First” and ok’d the yellow stars

Who killed Rosa Luxembourg, Liebneckt Who murdered the Rosenbergs And all the good people iced, tortured, assassinated, vanished

Who got rich from Algeria, Libya, Haiti, Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine,

Who cut off peoples hands in the Congo Who invented Aids Who put the germs In the Indians’ blankets Who thought up “The Trail of Tears”

Who blew up the Maine & started the Spanish American War Who got Sharon back in Power Who backed Batista, Hitler, Bilbo, Chiang kai Chek

Who decided Affirmative Action had to go Reconstruction, The New Deal, The New Frontier, The Great Society,

Who do Tom Ass Clarence Work for Who doo doo come out the Colon’s mouth Who know what kind of Skeeza is a Condoleeza Who pay Connelly to be a wooden negro Who give Genius Awards to Homo Locus Subsidere

Who overthrew Nkrumah, Bishop, Who poison Robeson, who try to put DuBois in Jail Who frame Rap Jamil al Amin, Who frame the Rosenbergs, Garvey, The Scottsboro Boys, The Hollywood Ten

Who set the Reichstag Fire

Who knew the World Trade Center was gonna get bombed Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers To stay home that day Why did Sharon stay away?

Who? Who? Who?

Explosion of Owl the newspaper say The devil face cd be seen

Who make money from war Who make dough from fear and lies Who want the world like it is Who want the world to be ruled by imperialism and national oppression and terror violence, and hunger and poverty.

Who is the ruler of Hell? Who is the most powerful

Who you know ever Seen God?

But everybody seen The Devil

Like an Owl exploding In your life in your brain in your self Like an Owl who know the devil All night, all day if you listen, Like an Owl Exploding in fire. We hear the questions rise In terrible flame like the whistle of a crazy dog

Like the acid vomit of the fire of Hell Who and Who and WHO who who Whoooo and Whooooooooooooooooooooo!

Copyright 2002. AMIRI BARAKA.

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Wow. I like that there poem. I haven't seen Zeitgeist the Movie, but I've seen some clips here and there regarding similar conspiracy theories. You know, Troy, I agree with you that something wasn't quite right about that whole Bin Laden thing. If he is dead, I tend to think there should have been more of a fight put up. It happened so quickly that I sometimes wonder if he wasn't friends with his killers.

I imagine that they walked right up to his door, having known his address and having been there before, and knocked. "Oh, what's up Laden...what's good..." and his reply would have been, "ah, what's up my n*****, long time no see...come on in..." And that was the end of him. Two shots to the head, or whatever it was that they did.

But that's just me and my imagination. Of course nothing like that would EVER happen...America could never sink so low...Oh, wait! What was that that Troy said? Something about slavery...

smh...we'll probably never know the real truth about any of this stuff, but if I were a betting woman, I'd bet that whatever the truth is, it aint good.

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Well, Mark Owen, the Navy seal who participated in the raid and subsequent killing of Osama has written a best seller entitled 'No Easy Day" and in it he describes what all happened. Incidentally, he has been discharged from this elite group for breaking its code of silence. He claims Osama was totally surprised, did not resist, but was gunned because no chances could be taken. He also said one reason he spoke out was because he didn't want President Obama to use what happened to promote his re-election by taking all the credit for getting rid of America's main nemises. I suppose all of this could be cited by conspiracy buffs as - being a conspiracy to divert suspicion. :wacko:

My immediate reaction to Leroi Jones' poem was, "OK, I give, Who is whooooooooo??????" Who are the sinister ubiquitous "they" who are all in cahoots to deceive and control and profit - and are presumably ensconced somewhere in a hideway carved in the side of a moutain, all there plotting and scheming to take over. :ph34r:

Present company excluded, ;) - So many conspiracy theorists impress me as being a certain caliber - often malcontented , usually paranoid, - loners who think they are too savvy to have anything put over on them. Other guilible people may fall for what the powers-that-be want them to believe but, aha, not them! These types have it all figured out, certain that the omnipresent "they" exist and will stop at nothing to gain control. :angry:

Corruption is a reality but - I don't think those guilty of it are united, mostly because they are in competition and are too treacherous to trust one another. <_<

But, whatever. People will believe what they want to and who knows what the actual truth is?????????? :huh:

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For most of the questions the answers are quite simple.

Who knows if there are a formal cabal of evil white men pulling the strings globally. We do know that money controls everything. It controls who is sent to prison. It controls who gets the best educations. It controls who starts out with a leg up because of inherited wealth, it determines who gets the best medical treatment -- and this is at the level of the ordinary American.

The captains of industry control entire economies across national borders. They determine who is employed and who is employable. If a Goldman Sachs has a policy of hiring people from a fixed set of schools, who is going to benefit from that. Does anyone believe that ONLY the smartest people get into Harvard. When a Goldman touts a diverse workforce do they mention how few local Black people have meaningful roles in there work force. Does anyone ask why. Does anyone care.

Of course there is a financial incentive to have long drawn out wars -- that is the only reason we have them. It is obvious. There is no conspiracy -- just look at what we do. Look at what Obama actually does. Obviously we are too blind with Obama worship to see that it really does not matter who is sitting in the white house.

The needs to the people take a second seat to people with the most money -- everything else is a smoke screen to confuse us, placate us and divert our attention.

Real freedom fighters, those who actually change the status quo, do not have secure comfortable lives. Their lives are in danger.

At the end of the day we are probably better off ignoring the man behind the curtain -- 'cause none of us are going to do anything about our collective situation.

Hummm are the Brooklyn Net playing tonight?

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I appreciate your explanation, Troy, because it's literal, not figurative. Simply put, I guess the rich are the ruling class. Everybody else is a pawn. I still can quite process who benefits from the 911 attacks, but it apparently doesn't matter. We have to learn to live with what we can't change and - try to acculmulate our own little financial stash so we can exploit somebody less privileged than we are. :unsure: A sad commentary on the world we live in. :(

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Hey Cynique I was ranting more than trying to explain the poem -- sorry about that.

Regarding who benefits from 911 it is just the companies that profit from selling the tools or war and of course there is controlling the resources of the region, etc.

I watched the 2nd film Zeitgeist Addendum was much more instructional about the financial system describing our financial system based upon a de

Instead of leaving you depressed by the hopelessness of the current situation it film actually gave a prescription on what we, as citizens, can do to change the situation, by reducing the power of the rich elites and improve the world for everyone. We can simply not participating, in much the same way we boycotted the bus system in Montgomery AL.

  1. Boycott Citibank, JP Morgan, and the Bank of America
  2. Boycott The News Networks
  3. Boycott the Military
  4. Boycott the energy companies
  5. Reject the political systems
  6. Join the Movement

Sounds like a worthwhile prescription.

The only other thing about the 2nd film is that is began to sound a little "culty" when they got into all of the metaphysical, "we are all one" stuff. That all fine with me, but we people start ascribing religious significance to the, apparent fact, the we all came from the same stuff going back to the big bang, then I start to get a little uneasy.... but that is just me :o

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