Azacotogan

6 minutes ago, Delano said:

@Azacotogan you have studied it and found it lacking. There's nothing for me to add. Since the word is self explanatory plus any contemporary definition provides clarification.

It's actually not self explanatory because as I said there are many branches of astrology. But I definitely found it lacking since the word itself is non African and so are all the manifestations of it. That was enough for me as a maroon. I was simply curious about which aspect you were dealing with but since you don't seem to want to go into that no problem.

5 minutes ago, Delano said:

I am accustomed to people dismissing or believing in it without any real exposure. You're uncertainty is counter indicated by the your following statement. Based upon the caucasian influence.

I used to study many of the systems that people commonly referred to as astrology, but since that is a rather vague term, when you say astrology what in particular are you referring to?

@Pioneer1Not accusatory nor paranoid. You can't cause paranoia within me. What you don't seem to see is that if I have to "provide evidence" of African concepts to an "African" then it is already a lost proposition. Period. Like I said, if this info doesn't make sense to you so be it. Someone who is looking to learn can't make the person they are asking questions of paranoid in a situation like this. I calmly explained why I won't engage you on that level. That's all. And it's in part, for the above reason. 

I am an African, not black, as you called yourself. There's HUGE difference from a psychological perspective. For those who are not actively living African culture, to think that those of use that are must meet the criteria of proving themselves to those who don't is totally backwards. Because for those of us who still have yet to find true African culture, and live it on a day to day basis, they often times have yet to innerstand that difference. The proof you are talking about comes from actually LIVING the culture and no other way. It's as simple as that. 

So now,  again I don't answer questions like that from those who claim to be trying to learn. It doesn't work that way. But it's clear now you're not going to get it. So I'll move on.

1 hour ago, Azacotogan said:

@Pioneer1 Oh, I did forget to add that, regarding the fairness of it all, the way it is looked at is that we must take care to not negatively disturb our lineage salawa. So the focus is on CHARACTER as the CAUSE and not lack of character as the effect. We focus on living in order so that we don't harm our descendants with our selfish ways. Once again you've seen examples of how things that happen to or are caused by ancestors affect the descendants. We, as I'm sure you know, still carry the effects of the captivity (slave) trade with us and it reflected in our behavior today, even though none of us experienced that directly. Is that fair? See what I'm saying? You're not asking the right question. Whether or not it's fair is irrelevant because this is SIMPLY A COSMIC LAW. You can choose to concern yourself with its "fairness" or you can control what you can control and add goodness to your lineage both on ayi (earth) and in Yetome (one aspect of the spirit realm).

^^^^^^^^

Your last question was already answered in my first answer to you. You just asked it a different way. The above is my answer to that. 

59 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Furthermore, if this is controled by a Superior Power or THE SUPREME POWER then it seems to me that karma would be more than something you "inherit" from another but an actual sentence or judgement rendered by an Intelligent Being with the power to put it on or take it off.

There is a difference between karma and salawa. First and most obvious is that salawa is west African and existed long before the concept of karma even came into existence. Karma could be looked at as a weak shell that attempts to replicate an ancient African concept. I used karma as a reference because most have a general idea of it but not because the two are parallel. That's why I say salawa throughout my post and not karma. Your characterization of what we call Mawu Lisa in Vodun is far different from how that cosmology actually works. Putting it on and taking it off, nah, in Vodun it doesn't work like that. 

59 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

The genes responsible for heredity has very little intelligence, free will, and ability to discrimninate in it's actions as compared to the Intelligent Being or Beings authorized to distribute karma.
So I would expect more discretion when karma is being delivered.

Where are you getting information from? There is no African culture that I know of that has this stance on these things. It certainly isn't like that in Vodun. You are just speculating. There is so much more to these things in Vodun but you write as though you have it all figured out. Smh. But you are focusing on karma. The article is about salawa.

59 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

We (the Black man) were created in TRUTH and the way to deal with eachother is in TRUTH.
You shut another Black man up NOT be acussing him of being skeptical or trying to undermine you but by presenting your information so game-tight and irrefutable that he has no choice but to either concede and accept it or leave the community out of humiliation.

What are you talking about? I'm not shutting you up. Go back and read why I said I wouldn't answer that one question. I answered several of your others. You think that I have to share certain experiences I've had with you as strong evidence that what I'm saying is correct? Are you serious? That's your criteria? That could easily be made up. I could tell you anything and you would have no way of truly knowing if what I'm telling you is the truth. So for someone who is secure in their being, as an AFRICAN and NOT a black man, the information given would be enough to make sense of it or not.

59 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

It's like a man who shovels snow for the elderly and gives charity to the poor; everyone who knows him says he's a good man.  But because he crossed the street without looking properly and got hit by a car.....some STRANGER watching it and don't know shit about him will point the finger and claim that his getting hit was "karma" for him not paying attention.

Maybe that is indeed how karma works, but it's not how salawa works. 

@Pioneer1 Oh, I did forget to add that, regarding the fairness of it all, the way it is looked at is that we must take care to not negatively disturb our lineage salawa. So the focus is on CHARACTER as the CAUSE and not lack of character as the effect. We focus on living in order so that we don't harm our descendants with our selfish ways. Once again you've seen examples of how things that happen to or are caused by ancestors affect the descendants. We, as I'm sure you know, still carry the effects of the captivity (slave) trade with us and it reflected in our behavior today, even though none of us experienced that directly. Is that fair? See what I'm saying? You're not asking the right question. Whether or not it's fair is irrelevant because this is SIMPLY A COSMIC LAW. You can choose to concern yourself with its "fairness" or you can control what you can control and add goodness to your lineage both on ayi (earth) and in Yetome (one aspect of the spirit realm).

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Thank you for this information.

I have a couple questions:

1. Have YOU actually visited the ancestral or spiritual realms, and if so can you describe some of those experiences in great detail?

2. You talk about family and national Salawa.....
Do you think it's fair or just for a person to have to answer for and possibly pay for the negative behavior of someone else who happened to be in their family or nation?

For example, say a man was married but routinely cheated on his wife and abused her having fun sex with many many women and beat his wife and took her money whenever he liked and he lived to be 80 then died of a heart attack.
Is it fair that one of his sons or grandsons or someone 200 years later pay the price for HIS misdeeds when he apparently got to have his fun and died a quick death?

Say what you will about the Caucasian (White man) but as wicked as he is, in his court systems it is believed that if YOU commit a crime then YOU will do the time....not your kids or grand kids or cousins.....but YOU.
So again, is is justice for SOMEONE ELSE to pay for the sins or crimes or misdeeds of another?


Not only do I hope you answer my questions but I hope you will NOT be like many people who just pop up on this site, drop a few interesting posts, and then disappear not to be heard from again leaving one to wonder why in the world they bothered to register and post to begin with....lol.   I hope you stay for a while and engage.

To keep it short and to the point, and to make it clear, I posted what I did not for the purpose of legitimizing African spirituality for those who may be skeptical of it for whatever reason. It is for those who are actually interested in learning about Vodun. Not sure where you are in your journey but your first question is, interesting. Maybe you don't even see why it's odd, I'm not sure.

Your first question can't be answered  according to the nature of the realms you're asking about, aside from it being an obvious attempt to undermine the information related, but I will say this: any experience I have had with those realms, why would I relay that to someone who off the bat is skeptical of the concepts and thinks I owe them an explanation on whether or not I've "been to those realms." That would be an attempt to validate Vodun and African reality to someone who clearly questions it. I'm sorry but I don't do that. I don't have to prove anything to you. Either the information makes sense to you or it doesn't. But I'll say this in short, in Vodun and all other African spiritual traditions that I'm familiar with, interacting with the different realms spirit on a personal level is essential, necessary and a given when living the lifestyle. 

Another thing that is odd is that you use the caucasian court system as a premise for trying to challenge the legitimacy of the concept of salawa. There's like a hundred things wrong with that logic. 

On a philosophical level though, a couple of your questions are legit. With regard to your example about the grandfather, if he was disrespectful of his family, body and soul, when he reincarnates later down the road he will face tougher circumstances from birth because of his poor choices in his previous life. So there is always accountability. No one gets a free pass. That is one of the reasons I said in my initial post that in Vodun our CHARACTER is of utmost importance because we cannot go around leaving a wake of destruction and not have to atone for this next time around or avoid bringing shame and ruin to our families. So this is one of the ways that murderers, rapists, pedophiles, people who do negative spiritual work for the highest bidder, are all held accountable and face justice. They may appear in some cases to get away with it by committing suicide, never being caught kwk, but in reality they don't. I'm sure you've heard of families being ruined because of the actions of one member of the family; it happens right here on the physical plane so is it so hard to see that these things happen within the span of generations? That's salawa in one manifestation. 

But as far as his descendants "paying" for his misdeeds, based on the examples you gave those actions would do little to negatively affect lineage salawa. They would affect his soul and personal salawa more than anything. Things that would contribute more toward lineage salawa would be things like, murder, rape, doing wicked spiritual acts against others, selling out the culture, trying to sell Africans as property to other people (a major taboo), things like that. 

12 minutes ago, Delano said:

@Azacotogan much appreciated will watch the link when I have some quiet time. My astrology teacher was into this as well. He talked about the forces. Some of his family said I had connection with a cigar smoking power. 

@Pioneer1if you can inherit your genetics and wealth why not karma: the Kennedy's.

@Delano Thanks for replying brother. Not sure what to make of what your astrology teacher told you. I do know that most of those astrology systems are based in caucasian ideology and when used they can be wildly dangerous and inaccurate with relation to African people using them.