Michel Montvert

27 minutes ago, Delano said:

 The bit about time starts at 32:01

Thank you, I shall view this this evening when I get the gardening done. Interesting topic, to be sure!

On 9/4/2022 at 11:56 AM, Delano said:

@Michel Montvertsearch "absolute elsewhere" + "Dudley Moore" it's a clip about time

I got the music but no Dudley. Not bad music...

If time is cyclical, and our lives are in part determined by karmic imperatives, I've wondered if when we reach a point on the cycle where we are repeating something from past cycles, we don't have a perception of that prior time. I've often felt that at times when I am relaxed, in an interval between actions, that I glimpse the same circumstance but in a different place, in the past. It is as if I'm being made aware that what I'm doing is part of a larger pattern, to realize that this keeps happening, and I should get it right this time.

In India such talk is readily accepted. It is said that Indians did a poor job of recording their history because they never considered the specifics of this time around the cycle to be of much importance. Understanding the cycles is more important than the points along the timeline of a particular one.

Some have said that our existence is simply bits of Creator trying to find their way back home. Time perhaps is the means by which we were separated. It's a giant cosmic game. Time ends for each individual, perhaps, at the time of moxa (enlightenment), and yet for everyone that point will occur at the same "time". or within the same timelessness.

On 9/7/2022 at 6:26 PM, Cynique said:

@TroyYou don't immerse yourself in FaceBook, but you seem to consider yourself an authority on it, convinced that in a nation rife with suspicion and mistrust, Facebook posters are the naive exception, - unlike the chronically vigilant folks to whom, algorithms are the latest Boogie Man. A Boogie Man that only naive people think can be avoided, done so at the cost of giving up one freedom to protect another. Ultimately, boycotting social media is a way for folks to feel good about themselves, assured that they are too aware to be taken advantage of. But pop culture is an important dynamic when it comes to the zeitgeist of any era and it is not some sinister realm to be villainized. It's all about keeping things in perspective. Manipulation exists everywhere.

 

Speaking of which, to me FaceBook and Twitter are microcosms of modern society, and are instrumental in delivering the world to your finger tips. Their political forums attract highly opinionate people who consider themselves "in the know" about how social media manipulates and about the clandestine forces at work to control people. You'd be right at home among them. As a source of news, however, they are no more influential than local network news stations ABC, NBC,CBS &FOX. (Everybody thinks where they get their news is the most accurate and reliable station.) 

 

Social media can also be a conduit to an organic spectrum of life in general, an online experience that can assist in broadening one's exposure, making  for a well-rounded, interesting individual conversant on a variety of subjects; not just serious ones.

 

So, our difference of opinion persists. 

It's like TV... a force for good, to inform us about the world, yet it ended up broadcasting mostly insipid nonsense.

The internet is repeating that pattern. Yes, you get to meet people from all over the world and broaden your horizons, but also nefarious forces are in there manipulating what info you see, what is allowed, and so on, and the big ones like Facebook are already notorious for these manipulations. I hate Facebook because they allow Russian propaganda, antisemitism, and other filth to be propagated freely but will attack anyone who confronts those things! I'm convinced that Zuckerberg, to use Prof. Snape's phrase, is "up to something".

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Michel Montvert

But as I've pointed out before.....
When it comes to the poverty of rural areas like Kansas or West Virginia and wide swaths of Middle America where half the population is hooked on meth and have no teeth in their mouth and over 90% of them are White.....most of them WANT to be in that condition.

Maybe "want" isn't the best word to use but they ACCEPT their position as the "grunts" of the system.
They are what are called "White Sacrifices" that are being used as pawns to keep going. 
Cheap and handy labor to keep the system operating.

They also stand as a cushion between the masses of Black and other people of color who are poor, oppressed, and angry and they act as a buffer to keep the wealthier classes protected "just in case".

They KNOW they are being exploited and mistreated but unlike most Black people they are WILLING sacrifices.

In West Virginia a lot of the poor Whites who worked in those coal mines KNEW that it would fuck up their lungs and that they were being exploited by wealthy mine owners and investor....but they labored on working their asses off with the excuse of "feeding their families".....until they got sick and dropped dead.
They were WILLING pawns in the game of what they believed was "White Supremacy".....the System.
You find these type all over the country keeping things operating at the expense of their own bodies and health.

They'll work hard all day long and sit around at night with no teeth in their mouths smoking and drinking until they drop dead....and do it WILLINGLY to keep the System going strong.

 

"Here's to  repealing Obamacare and the rest of that socialist garbage!
Real men don't give a FUCK about their health or teeth!
Real men don't need helmets when they ride motor cycles!
And real men ain't gonna walk around with a damn face diaper on, Pandemic or not!"



  -If Social Darwinism is real...I say let nature take it's course.

 

I think you're giving the rightwing working-class whites FAR too much credit as thinkers. They are not willingly sacrificing themselves to anything. They think that their problems are all caused by exterior forces (never the actual oppressor who is screwing them). They are NOT aware that their situation is enabled by anti-black racism. The racism is one of the primary means by which they are conned into supporting their oppressor. It is not conscious!!! They are full of FEAR! The old Southern politicians would get elected by stirring up fear of the blacks. Now they also use immigrants, Muslims, trans, etc., but the dynamic is the same.

How informed can they be if they refer to the ACA as "socialist garbage", when in fact it is Romneycare! Romney is a socialist now? These fools wouldn't know socialism if it crawled up their leg. I know it's difficult to understand for us more rational folks, but these dupes really do believe the nonsense fed to them! They think Obama closed coal mines because he's a socialist Muslim! Makes no sense... but don't let that stop them! The folks in WV who correctly identify the COAL company as the problem... well those are the Democrats. Union people.

The fools believed their handlers, refused vaccination and masks, and died in piles! Did they do that as a conscious sacrifice to keep the system going and keep blacks down? HELL no, that is too much "thinking" for them. They just believe what their idiot hero tells them and do what they're told. I've tried arguing with those types... I'm convinced they are not intelligent or aware enough to sacrifice themselves for anything.

15 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@Michel Montvert  Help? well, maybe if the mexican government would help them, they can make more possible. At the base level, they are refuting wanting to live in the USA as their parents and more like their forebears who lost that war at the end. When one loses a war, it is a gang like scenario. 

 

Well, the history of gangs is violence. The irish /white jewish/italian mobs mostly terrrorized their own as well, all gangs do  The gang is never for the other, but a gathering of those who are not convinced by the system, which doesn't mean all have to be that way. yes, some mexicans kids, think like their parents, like you but my simple point is that those who don't have the right to.  The KKK was a gang no different in nature. The KKK killed or hurt many white people as well. Not all gangs have the same level of power. But that connects to outside sources. Maybe the mexican government needs to aid the mexicans gangs more? I know the southern governments aided the KKK. NYC's government was a partner to the irish/white jew/italian gangs. So... 

 

 

Yes nearly every ethnic group in the USA has produced gangs. I still can't see how that is a good thing in any way. Gangs are not "for the other", but they don't prey on "the other"; they prey on their own people.

KKK you can call a gang but they had a particular political view, which was toxic of course, but that meant they were fighting for political change (or to maintain the racist Jim Crow status quo). Gangs usually are not political, though I have seen political expressions coming from the Latin Kings in Chicago.

I was familiar with gangstas in S. Central L.A. where I taught school. I'd talk to them in the street. One once walked up and shook my hand, saying, "Thank you for trying to show our little brothers a better way, to get out of this life." "Just doing my job," I said. "Yeah, but you're about the only teacher doing it." So I understood their dilemma... they themselves knew that gangbanging was not a good thing. They wanted better.

I have to point out that it is racist to always separate out "white Jews". Jews are Jews. Are there "non-white" Jews in the USA? I've known Iranian Jews and they could pass as Ashkenazim. Also, the adjective is "Jewish". You use "Irish" and "Italian", but refer to Jews using the noun as an adjective. That is how antisemites talk. Hitler referred to "Jew art" and "Jew science". Certainly he did not consider any Jew to be "white".

But then, "white" is an artificial construct created in Virginia in the 17th century to facilitate the enslavement of blacks...

As for gangs... there are still white gangs in California. One called the Peckerwoods. And I'd say that outlaw motorcycle gangs are, well, GANGS. I've been around those people too, and they are in no way preferable to the non-white versions. Gangs often are a symptom of alienation, dispossession... in other words, oppression. Lift the oppression and those gangstas would have an education and real jobs and be contributing to their community. Certainly that's what I taught my inner-city students they ought to do...

15 hours ago, Troy said:

@Chevdove if I got rid of everyone who disagreed with me, or you, there would be absolutely no one left.

 

I admit, I liked a lot of what Michel has previously posted, he came across as sincere, articulate, and well-meaning.  I thought he added something to the conversation given that he is (or presented himself as) an older white guy with a great deal of experience in the Black community. That said he seems to have flipped.  It doesn't seem like the same guy.  

 

@Michel Montvert yeah you are coming across as very racist right now.  You posted a video by a couple of nobodies, but reject Van Sertima?!  Who is the guy in the photo below, from the video you shared?  What are his credentials? 

 

You obviously have not read as much as you say you have on the subject of Africans in the Americas before the era of Columbus.  Columbus did not discover America he never set foot here -- despite what we were taught in school. 

 

I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. You obviously have your own opinion and I'm confident there is nothing I can write, or share with you, that will change your mind.  Your belief system was forged by a system of white supremacy.  (i.e. Chevdove don't waste your time) 

 

Racists can't see their own racism and this makes it exceedingly difficult for them to change.

 

@Michel Montvert where did you get the following?

 

 

Can you cite a reputable source that says "many Africans" have neandertal DNA?  It has been some time since I read on the subject, but I never read that. I wonder where you got it from.... probably the guy below, huh?

 

 

I've said nothing racist and you know it. Nothing flipped. I am simply supporting indigenous rights against outsiders trying to steal their history.

Africans have Eurasian admixture. Eurasian DNA is common in the Horn, northern Nigeria and Cameroon, and other places. Eurasians means neandertal genes!

Also it was discovered by an anthropologist named Hammer that W-Central Africans are mixed with another species, which is likely bodoensis. What we learn from this is that our species interbred with other Homo species wherever they were encountered. There are at least 3 species included in "Denisovans", and all 3 mixed with sapiens.

None of this is racist. It is simply scientific fact. Very few humans on earth are pure sapiens. As I am graduate educated in anthropology, I know about this material. I know about Van Sertima and why he is not accepted by real science. He did NOT provide any citations, any real evidence. It's all hearsay and speculation.

Do I CARE who are ancestral to whom? No. Anyone on earth could be part black or part white and why should I care? Only a racist would be bothered by that. What I care about is science, logic, evidence, facts.

My primary interest in this forum is in the politics of the movement for liberation, specifically of African-Americans, a cause I've supported since childhood. I am interested right now in what will occur in the future regarding BLM, who now has a scandal going on. My view is that black lives matter, without the caps, and that is the focus of struggle, not any particular org. I'm hoping that the various crises mounting rapidly will impel change on many fronts, including attention to ending the racism in this country. It's about time, no?

I'm tired of having a flame war with someone who doesn't understand the science and only calls me names. I mean, for dismissing Van Sertima, one is a racist? That is ludicrous. Keep in mind that white anthropologists assert that Egypt was created by black people, that humanity originated in Africa from black people. Yet we're racists? I think not.

On 8/28/2022 at 5:44 PM, Pioneer1 said:

 

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

What the rich are doing makes sense.
I don't agree with much of it and think it's exploitative....but it does make sense.
What most poor people are doing doesn't seem to make sense.

The conditions and forces which make those poor people dysfunctional are structural and by design. Keep them unhealthy, subject to bad food and conditions, poorly educated, and pumped full of media BS, and naturally they'll behave badly.

I'm not trying to inject WV into the forum but I mention it for comparative purposes, and it is instructive because we have there a subset of the USA which suffers high levels of poverty and dysfunction, and are overwhelmingly white. I look at their behavior and it makes me feel ill. The grandchildren of farmers who watch grandpa's tractor rusting in the field while they eat junk food and complain about the unpicked fruit which falls and rots on the ground.

I just have to remember that I'm university educated, we got out of WV young. I grew up in affluent suburbs of Pittsburgh and L.A., so they perhaps rightly dismiss me as a pointy-headed smartypants outsider if I criticize what they're doing in WV. So I end up having the same view you express. that they are willfully dysfunctional and hurting themselves.

The rich of course are behaving rationally. They have to in order to preserve their position of privilege, which requires a lot of manipulation to pull it  off.

21 hours ago, ProfD said:

There is a difference between war and murder. 

 

I'm a proponent of folks protecting themselves by any means necessary. 

 

I don't think folks should kill each other out of envy, jealousy, greed, hatred or because their feelings got hurt. 

 

It is sad if one truly believes humanity cannot exist without violence. 

If it's change we want, I don't think the question comes down to violence or non-violence. It comes down to effective tactics. There are times when violence is appropriate. However, non-violence has great advantages, and is a way of breaking with the violent past of humanity. And violence has the disadvantage that once it starts, it becomes indiscriminate. People end up being shot just for being black or white. That accomplishes nothing.

So, I think the BPP was right to carry guns for self-defense, but at the same time it seems that as a political tactic, non-violence is the best way to go, pragmatically if not ethically.

8 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

@Michel Montvert fair enough, I want to add one thing, about people who complain about the next generations not continuing the style of life from the prior. ... People of color, defined as non white europeans, in NYC do that often. The children don't comprehend , the children are insulting their forebears. But, are the mexican children joining gangs in california for example, insulting their forebears? when the whites of the USA took the west by defeating mexico in a war? when the whites of the usa took all the land and resources mexicans had owned in that region for themselves? When the whites of the USA had made mexicans in the western states live on fiefdoms controlled by white landlords. In California and western states, what about the following? < https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2060&type=status >  And let me not go into indigenous peoples history in the lands that are the western states, let alone the USA itself. The gang desires goes back to the violence of the past, which was 100% warranted. The children don't have to see the world the way we do, nor do they have to want what we want, for many if not most of our forebears didn't want what we want. If Mexico had won that war, the children who are gang members would be the land owners today. 

 

@Pioneer1 fair enough, that is your opinion.the black community in the usa or the european colonies that preceded it has always had people who speak like you do. Fully invest in the fiscal capitalism, become an owner, the american dream is yours. But most black people have always refuted it, based on the truth of their lives. Consistency has reason to be, it is never a choice. 

 

Yes, many white christians talk about the financial efficiency of white jews, many phong talk about the japanese americans, many black christians or non NOI talk about the financial prudence in the nation of islam as compared to the black tribes outside of it. yes, small subcommunities always are financially better than their larger counterparts in the USA and the reason is simple. The larger your community the more fiscal poor will exist for the nature of fiscal capitalism. Black people in the usa haven't figured out how to make the majority have positive business  ownership but neither have whites in the usa so...

 

I think it's likely that black people remember what happened to "Black Wall St." in OK, and similar incidents, and many perhaps just become fatalistic, that none of that is possible. I disagree, I say it is all possible and one should fight for what is right and beat the odds.

Yes, the history of Mexicans in the W is as you say. How do gangs help that? They mostly victimize their own people. That is how they're betraying them. If they were fighting for their lands back, in the manner of Tijerina, or even like Juan Murrieta, that would have some validity. Most of these gangsters are children of immigrants, not descendants of those who lost the war to the gringos. Their war was in Mexico, the Revolution of 1910, which was won and then lost... it's complicated.

I've lived in the "barrio", I've taught school to the children who are immigrants or the children of immigrants. I see clearly what the gangs are up to, and it is bad for the community. How are they hurting the gringos with that behavior? They just give the system an excuse to lock them all up.

The Mexicans who worked effectively against oppression were groups such as La Raza Unida Party, the UFW, MEChA, Brown Berets, and such. I worked with 2 of those groups. The Chicano Movement adopted much of the language of pachucos, cholos, gangbangers, but the criminal activity no. ¿Qué pasó, vato? ¡Órale!

It is too bad the schools and society generally has failed those people, and other people as well.

The best thing you said: "...but neither have whites in the usa so..." Bingo! WHITES haven't done it either! They're screwing US, too! It would be helpful if all non-whites understood that. and even more helpful if the damned dumbassed delusional brainwashed WHITES would get it! This system is by nature oppressive and exploitative! If anyone thinks that is directed only at non-whites, they should read up on the history of Ireland and Scotland.

3 hours ago, Chevdove said:

@Michel Montvert

 

I'm not reading anymore of this racist rhetoric that you are putting into this Black community.

You ave come here under false colors.

You have provided NO references to support anything you have said.

You spent time telling us how we need to provide references yet, you've not provided any to support what you are saying simply because you are lying.

 

I have provided numerous references.

Therefore, I am asking you @Troy to intervene.

This guy is really racist.

 

The references of the genealogy trees that I posted reflect the other references in that GENOME PROJECT is fact based.

I provided reference of the Genome Project in that it is an internationally accepted project of scientist across the world and 

states that ALL MODERN HUMANS STEM FROM ONE AFRICAN MALE INDIVIDUAL.

 

The educational curriculum includes evolution and states that it is a theory and so far to date, nothing has been proven based on evolution.

 

Black African people today have NO other primitive hominid DNA other than like other 'races' some do show Neanderthal DNA.

@Troy I want you to realize that this @Michel Montvert putting blatant lies about people of African descent having other hominid DNA. This is very far fetched and extremely racist. 

 

 

 

Yes, he is completely disrespectful about the late Ivan Van Sertima who was highly educated and his work has been confirmed.

This is definitely a racist attack against this Black community.

 

 

 

@Troy This racist is completely ignoring numerous publications which obviously shows his intent on being here.

I have shared in the past in several other threads about how, more than 100 years prior to Columbus, that over a million Aztec ancestors migrated from Europe around the time of THE BLACK DEATH PLAGUE which occurred around the AD 1330s. And soon after the Toltec civilization came to an end. I have written about the many people who fled the Old World from Africa to the Americas long before Columbus and here, this idiot is so evil with his racism that he is tripping over obvious historical facts to try and keep the Africans confined in Africa. LOL.

 

No Troy, I hope that you look into this. Please and thank you.

 

 

You should stop the name-calling and the lying. I spoke no racism, nor did I speak falsely about anything. I simply reported what science knows of this issue.

Your behavior is reminiscent of Trump followers who simply want to silence all voices they don't like. As for Van Sertima, he is respected only by cultists, his work is worthless, and he proved nothing. Find ONE of the proofs of anyone here before Columbus. You cannot, and you know it, hence the vitriole and vile lying name-calling. How disappointing... and you call me racist, while one of your first statements was that no scientist can be trusted who is white!

You lost the argument. You produce no evidence. Because there is none. Find it, if there is. Something real, not Van Sertima's vain speculation.

Why did he not get peer-reviewed? Why does all real science reject his "work"? Because it's bogus.

And the RACISM is in trying to steal other peoples' histories. Get y'all's hands off the Maya and Olmec and worry about someone else.

And cease and desist with the slander against me. You lost, be gracious and mature and move on. Why would this get you so heated? Agitated, like racists get. Listen to them seething over BS like CRT and you'll hear attitudes similar to yours. Check yourself.

If you want online discussion to be nothing but an echo chamber for those in your own cult, you could find some really nasty fora to join... this one generally seems reasonable and intellectual, so I wonder why you think throwing temper tantrums is appropriate here.

I've already won this argument and am interested in discussing issues of importance to the betterment of this society, and specifically black people. There is a big scandal brewing over BLM leadership which the white racists will seize on... I wonder where the anti-racist movement goes from here... It's getting nasty out there! Don't make it nasty in here, too, please.

9 hours ago, daniellegfny said:

That doesn’t seem like confusion to me. It makes good sense to copy the right cat and not want crime rampant in ones community. Not to mention not wanting to lose one’s job over pronouns or have their children groomed. And let’s not mention the right to worship God in our own ways.

Trump himself is rampantly criminal. So... a remedy for crime is to be ruled by a felonious psychotic narcissist megalomaniac who hates democracy and fancies himself a dictator?

Now THAT is confusion!

16 minutes ago, Nnamdi Azikiwe said:

I love that!!!

In my opinion people fight because they have bought into the Hegelian dichotomy of fight or flight as though there are not other options. Only people who have achieved self mastery could consider mastering their opponent.

#ChessNotCheckers

#Mate

This pretends that no forces of oppression are arrayed against the people, which is of course an absolutely false assumption.

One's individual efforts are laudable, but when the system is stacked against you... then systemic remedies are required.

That means one does not sanely close one's eyes and pretend that society is just and functional.

Also, your comment regarding Hegel has nothing to do with Hegelian thought, which stipulates that a synthesis is achieved through the interaction of disparate forces. So... add struggle against injustice to injustice. and often a better result is the yield.

40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

Having been working since the 80s, I know that things USED TO be much better at work in the United States but after the Reagan Era things took a turn for the worse where the jobs became more demanding, safety standards started disappearing, and management became more authoritative.

But this goes back to what I was saying in the other thread about the poor people in the United States being the main causes of their own problems.
They ALLOWED this to happen without fighting back and demanding more pay, benefits, and respect from these employers

A few drug addicts standing on street corners with clipboards trying to get people to sign petitions to raise the minimum wage doesn't exactly count as a  "labor movement" if anyone asks me.

Yes, how you describe the changes wrought by Reaganomics. And yes, we sure could use a real labor movement as in the 30s! We had a brief moment after WW2 when Unions were very strong and the people could have grabbed their freedom, but failed to perceive the game the system was playing on them. A real labor movement... oh yeah.

Reagan and Gingrich engineered and propagandized all these changes supposed to set us "free". convinced most whites that to be rightwing and pro-corporate was a good thing (what???) and off we go... at-will employment, goods produced in  Chinese sweatshops. white supremacists stirred up and mainstreamed. This stuff did not start with Trump. It is 42 years old.

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Of course, that is one of the fundamental principles of racism white supremacy.  

 

That's why I'm a huge proponent of AfroAmericans becoming self-sufficient.  Stop depending on White folks for everything especially employment.. 

 

Entrepreneurship provides one with the freedom to play by their own rules.

Agreed though I'm a "leftist" and we generally go for institutional reforms, I also learned a lot of anarcosindicalismo in Spain which emphasizes local economy autonomy. The wealth of the community sustains the community's RIGHTS as well as its welfare, is the idea. Notice that since Reagan the rural white communities have also been gutted... rampant underemployment, lots of drugs, single parents, etc. Where there used to be locally owned businesses now are all corporate franchises. All of these communities of various ethnicities would benefit from the entrepreneurship and freedom of which you correctly speak. I hear NO politicians addressing this meaningfully. Neither Party is providing the infrastructural supporter which would facilitate all this. They continue to enable almost exclusively CORPORATIONS, NOT people.

On 9/5/2022 at 2:09 PM, Pioneer1 said:

ProfD

 

 

I'm of the belief...and I could be wrong....that most White people don't want fairness and justice when it comes to people of color and especially Black people.

 

They want freedom and justice for THEMSELVES, but as soon as you or I step into the room....rules, laws, restrictions, limits.

 

It's so funny that on most of the jobs I've been on that were all or almost all White (which were few)...I noticed that at the beginning when there are few Black employees...the rules were almost non-existent.

You just punch in on time, show up to work, do your job, and you were fine.

 

-1 hour lunch break and you can take it in the building, in your car, even leave and come back with your food.
-smoke breaks
-No dress code.

-Talk to whoever you want for however long you want as long as you're doing your job
Few restrictions as long as you coming to work and producing.
 

But as soon as you see a critical mass of niggaz bouncing in through the door grinning, then the RULES start coming down........
 

I've seen this syndrome at work, it is true, you are right.

However, I cannot remember a job which was as you describe an all-white workplace. They treat white workers as powerless dependent and disposable drones. and those behaving otherwise are quickly replaced. We are not FREE on the job and likely haven't been for 4000 years.

But yeah, they make everything worse for non-whites. Like the Walmarts. Go to one where there are mostly whites and there are lots of cash registers open and inconspicuous security. Drive to the next town where everyone is Mexican and the Walmart has 2 cashiers working. and security visible and intimidating.

To see a more free workforce you'd really have to go to one of the developed nations, e.g. France, Singapore. Israel, Japan, Germany, Canada.

31 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

 @Michel Montvert  I am not surprised because, the history of black peoples relationship to whites in the 13 colonies and then the usa from said 13 colonies went from an overwhelming majority , circa ninety five percent, who hated the usa side whites to a plurality in modernity who are a blend of pro usa pro white anti usa anti white and others. The reason for the plurality in modernity is not just whites, it is black people as well. Many black people underrate how the circa four percent of blacks who supported the creation of the usa side living positively with whites had members who worked  very hard in the black community to their cause. I am not saying right or wrong but it is historical fact.

 

Your second paragraph relate to my first reply. The black community went from a standard of hate against whites plus the usa. Didn't need a cult. If anything the cult in the black community was the cult of pro usa the cult of interracial peaceful living that became larger and larger and larger into the modern black community today. James baldwin said it best himself, his father hated whites, the whole black church did. They didn't see an interracial peaceful living. They couldn't bend to it. going back to that cult that baldwin was a partial member of. 

 

Well... outside of human beings stop being human. The answer is simple, black people , as shirley chisholm said, must involve ourselves in business ownership at a very very high quantity. I concur to her. In fiscal capitalism, owning is key. Yes, government can massage business, but that is a far harder thing than simply owning. It goes to women as well. Own and you control, the overseer government model takes a long time

 

Good awareness of history you have, and a good perspective. I may want to be less pessimistic, if that's what it is...

I try to imagine myself in that situation (slavery, then Jim Crow) and I'd likely not be real happy about white folks either. The cult of Love-USA, yes, that is the cult, not black people realistically reacting against oppression by whites. Reaction against oppression is sanity.

I guess I feel a need to bring awareness to the fact that the racist system created the distinction of black and white, they made us into these 2 groups and then told us we were opposed to each other. That is a lie. And therefore, not every white person is the enemy. Some of us do NOT like the ambient racism in this country.

I saw a Jim Crow "whites only" sign in Virginia in 1959, and I asked my Mom, "What's a white?" I did not know that I was "white". She replied, "You know, like us, not colored." So... our identity is predicated on NOT being black??? At nine years old I was a smartassed little kid and I saw that, saw the contradiction. We are defined by NOT being THEM??? Oh hell no... We define ourselves as "white" by not being them, and then we won't let them eat at the diner??? Cracka please...

I voted for Shirley Chisholm for President. And she's right. Economy, as any Marxist would say, is the basis of everything. I do not hold to the economic determinism of Marxism, but certainly economy is essential, crucial, paramount, damned near close to what Marxists say. Here I am now in rural Virginia, near Charlottesville and near where I had that nasty experience in 1959 with Jim Crow and with the nasty cracker who reacted to my naive Yankeeboy comments. Around here are many black people. We intentionally patronize them. We hire guys to do tree work, painting. tractor work, all sorts of stuff. They have businesses doing this stuff. There's one outfit who has all the tree equipment, the huge manipulators of logs and all that. They're nice people. We are conscious that the black economy is important and we support it. Besides, the WHITES who are the alternative are all Trumpos! I don't want to even associate with them, let alone give them money.

If you're not aware of this already, let me inform you that there are MANY whites like us who feel this way and do NOT like the racist and rightwing whites. And they threaten us as they threaten you. So, we may not have to suffer the daily racist environment as blacks do, nobody pulls us over for driving while black, but when these nutcases rise up they intend to shoot us before they shoot you. They've told me that many times.

I utterly agree with the self-help economic rap as used to be pushed by Tony Brown, if you're old enough to remember him. That is true for all communities. My white West Virginia people have the exact same problem. There aren't even food stores up there for many people. It's a food desert, a rural white ghetto. We have common interests. We're stronger united.

Right-thinking people, I advocate that we unite. Forget about the irredeemable racist dungheaded whites and the unconscious asleep blacks. The rest of us will get it done.

21 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

@Michel Montvert, are you familiar with the work of Ivan Van Sertima? Start with him. Clearly, there is a lot you don't know about that subject. 

 

As far as DNA it was hard to understand where the point of contention is, a percentage of so-called white people have some Neanderthal DNA. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact modern humans have other species mixed in. We know of neandertals, Denisovans and a species in Africa, likely bodoensis. It is not only Europeans with this admixture, but nearly everyone.

Van Sertima is not a legitimate academic. He is in the category of "alternative" archaeology, like Graham Hancock. I am familiar with all of his writing and that of others in a similar vein. The fact is, there is still no evidence of anyone in America before Columbus. besides indigenous people, with one exception, a small failed viking settlement in Labrador.

There are people claiming all manner of nonsense for America. Vikings mining copper in Michigan. Someone from the Old World building the mounds. Africans in Mesoamerica. Chinese in California. NONE of this is proven, and it is all rejected by legitimate scholars.

In the popular mind there is much confusion about this. For example, stating that "white people have neandertal admixture." In fact, all non-Africans have it, and many Africans do as well. It is not a "white thing". and Europeans have less non-sapiens admixture than eastern Eurasians have. The people found to have the most non-sapiens admixture are Melanesians. The percentage of presumed bodoensis admixture in W-Central Africans is twice that of neandertal admixture in Europeans.

Nobody really can point a finger at anyone else about being mixed with another species of Homo.

Over the centuries there have been a lot of crazy ideas about human migrations and civilization. 19th-century Europeans tended to believe that all civilization diffused from Egypt. We now know this is not true, as there were civilizations elsewhere as early or earlier, and without any Egyptian influence. Europeans loved to claim that Native American civilizations were the work of outsiders, as they couldn't believe, due to their racism, that the indigenous people could have done it. Claims of African Olmecs or Mayans are just more of the same, attempting to steal other peoples' civilizations.

Vague cultural similarities are found all over the earth and prove nothing. The Vikings and Polynesians used the same means of securing planks on their boats. So were they related in some way? Did this knowledge diffuse? No, it was independently invented.

There is NO evidence for anyone coming to America before Columbus. None. Nothing is being suppressed. Academia is so competitive that no such cover-up could succeed. To prove African contact, we'd need something from this list:

1. African DNA

2. African boats

3. African human remains

4. African cultural remains

5. African crops

NONE of that has been found in America. DNA has been tested of many precolumbian remains and not ONE bit of African DNA has been found. Nor European. Nor Chinese. By stating this I only indicate that I know anthropology and am informed about developments. For example, I know of the genome analysis done of the Lagoa Santa remains, which include the notorious Luzia, and their DNA was proven 100% indigenous. Yet again, all claims of outside contact fail for lack of evidence.

There is a lot of information coming out which indicates civilizations in Africa as yet unidentified. One is in the Sahara, and preceded Egypt. Another was in the Congo basin and created extensive irrigation systems, about which we know virtually nothing. These and many other finds coming out of Africa should stimulate people to explore that. to find out about civilization created by Africans rather than casting about hither and yon to find someone else's civilizations to claim. The ongoing attempt to claim nearly every civilization on earth as "really African" resembles more than anything the 19th-century diffusionists trying to make every civilization on earth the work of white people.

Many people seem not to understand that 2/3 of the earth's people are neither white nor black!

On 8/24/2022 at 6:59 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Kenneth 

Thanks for the insightful posts that stimulate me to comment on....lol.

Well I'll say something that may sound shocking but in THIS nation poor people....collectively...ARE primarily to blame for their condition.

Yes they are being exploited and the wages are being kept low and they are being manipulated and hammered with one distraction after another but most of them don't seem to CARE even when these injustices are brought to them for their attention.
In the old days, men used to get together and MARCH and PROTEST and even RIOT to demand hire wages.
They'd be all over the streets demanding hire wages and more benefits.
That's when it was a man's responsibility to take care of his wife and children....no excuses.

But now when it's primarily women's responsibility to support themselves and any children they have and most men only contribute what they want or what the court ORDERS them to contribute....the pressure on them to earn more simply isn't there.
If the average man in the lower socio-economic sector is getting (notice I didn't say "earning"....there's a good reason for that) just enough to keep his bills paid, some food in his stomach, and can maintain his supply of liquor to drink and weed to smoke -he thinks he's doing good.

Who cares about a LIVING WAGE?

Who cares about SAFE WORKING CONDITIONS?
Who cares about a PENSION PLAN?

Who cares about eliminating this "right to work" crap that is getting people fired all over the nation for the simplest of reasons by egotistical managers???

Until the POOR and WORKING CLASS people put their differences aside long enough to decide ENOUGH IS ENOUGH....don't expect much to change.


Personally, I'm no longer riding for the poor.
I'm working class and trying my best to GET OUT of that class and into the upper middle class and eventually WEALTHY class.
Not only is it nicer but because the people tend to be more selfish...they actually CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES.

All of that behavior by the poor which you decry is engineered. The system saw very well what happened when people stood up for themselves: labor movement. civil rights movement, womens' movement... They have extensively manipulated people to create all this cynicism and anomie. It's all by design.

On 9/5/2022 at 9:42 AM, Chevdove said:

 

I think the masses on the bottom of America need to realize that power is the hand of a few and we are being thrown together and pushed down no matter what we look like. 

 

That is precisely the big TRUTH which needs to be spread, widely realized. Dumb rednecks who think they're in control because of their white face... they actually will become angry and fearful if it is suggested to them that in fact they are oppressed and used. They'll divert to blaming "immigrants! Muslims! blacks on welfare! Democratic far-left extremists!" and other such nonsense. Nope, their oppressor is precisely the billionaire white parasite whom they stupidly ADMIRE!!! unbelievable

19 hours ago, richardmurray said:

In my historical assessment of black people this is common among black people. 

Some black people even before the war between the states, just attacked white people. we forget how many slave revolts failed:) 

IT is more common than black people in the USA like to admit for a black person to be fed up and go the violent route.  

No entitlement. 

And my last support is that the majority of black people in all the tribes <DOS/JAmacian/Ethiopian> in the Black COmmunity in the USA  accept abuse from the white system. But, there are always those black folk who do this. I don't see entitlement just common expenctancy

It is common among all people. A Korean student at VA Tech had been bullied and subject to racism, and he flipped out and shot students. White workers often show up at their place of employment shooting people due to real or imagined abuse. We all learn to take a lot of crap in this society, and sometimes we just get tired of taking it. Since black people take more crap than whites, generally, I'm surprised there aren't more incidents of violent retribution. The Uvalde school shooter was Mexican. also bullied.

The most vile incidents by far are those committed due to motivation of racist ideology, like Dylan Rooff shooting up the black church in Charleston, or that freak in Pittsburgh shooting up the synagogue. I cannot think of any black examples of this. I suppose that's because the black community really doesn't have organized racist cults as whites do, with the possible exception of NOI, but they seem to control their members. Black Hebrew Israelites are supremacists, but despite their violent rhetoric I'm not aware of them attacking whites or blacks, both of whom they threaten to kill en masse.

There are so many idiots at jobsites I'd love to knock out. I don't think of killing them... just a good smack. I mean on one job. where we had to speak Spanish, I was getting persecuted by the Puerto Rican supervisor because I speak Spanish like a Mexican. and he hated Mexicans. He'd write me up for saying things the Mexican way while he's spewing Puerto Rican slang all over the place, but that's ok...

Our workplaces are often VERY abusive. That is a problem we need to address.

On 9/5/2022 at 10:13 AM, Pioneer1 said:

richardmurray

Visiting New York is the next closest thing to visiting a foreign country and in some cases it seems MORE like a foreign country than some of the Canadian cities I used to frequent...lol.

What you say about Black people feeling the need to accommodate or what the older Black folks used to call CATERIN' TO White people is true.  
This desire affects the way we talk, dress, carry ourselves, and even eat.  I know a lot of Black folks who usually didn't use napkins but would rather lick their fingers and wipe them on their clothes instead...but when we went somewhere that was predominately White, THEN all of a sudden they became "proper" and started using napkins, lol.

 

 

 

NYC is the proof. NYC has black multi millionaires, mayors, police chiefs, teachers, small business owners. Individually you can find a black person has achieved anything individually possible. But, the black community in NYC has next to nothing. 

Well there are many reasons for this but one of the MAIN reasons is lack of unity.

As FBA as I am (for those who don't know FBA stands for Foundational Black American and has become a bit of a nationalist movement lately) I have to admit that compared to most Black immigrants, most AfroAmericans have dropped the ball over the past 50 years, particularly when it comes to community unity and financial industriousness.

While the AfroAmerican community has collectively slid down into a pool of laziness, criminality, and routine dope smoking that has halted much of the progress we were making in the 70s....Black immigrant communities....of which New York is FULL OF....have been fueling much of what we are calling "Black success" in this nation and especially in places like New York, D.C. and other major cities with a large Black immigrant population.

Whether we're talking about doctors, professors, military officers, ect....if it requires a lot of education and delayed gratification to achieve success.....if you see a Black person in it chances are they are an African or West Indian Black person and much less an AfroAmerican because many of our people no longer have that drive to achieve success through THOSE channels but would rather take an easier route requiring less work and dedication.

So while New York has a lot of Black wealth and success, I would attributed much of it (certainly not all) to it's large Black immigrant population who either are the one's ACHIEVING it....or have created an environment of such intense competition that it's forced even Black Americans to put the blunts down and get to work grinding before they end up sleeping on the streets.

 

 

 

I would only point out that when people decry the lack of activism and leadership among African-Americans... there were a number of talented and impressive leaders, and they were nearly all MURDERED! Medgar Evers, Malcolm, Dr. King, Fred Hampton, and I have suspicions about the death of Ron Brown...

Immigrants always come here energetic and eager to work. Compare an immigrant from Europe to a lazy-assed USA white...

Small business growth in California is being fueled by mostly Mexican, Chinese, etc., immigrants. Many Mexicans complain that the 1st generation comes here and busts their butts to make a better life for their kids, who then choose instead to join a gang.

Imagine my chagrin when I visit my home state of WV, where half the population is on opioids, many do not want to work at all, the culture is rapidly evaporating, and nobody gives a damn. So I think I know how you feel when you observe similar problems among your own group.

22 hours ago, Chevdove said:

@Michel Montvert You keep repeating yourself. 

Again, I am a biology major so NO, EVOLUTION IS ONLY A THEORY, nothing has been confirmed. I teach this because it is on the educational curriculum. 

Nothing has been proven about evolution.

 

"Sorry, African folks, but it has been found that W-Central Africans also mixed with a non-sapiens species, likely Homo bodoensis (formerly heidelbergensis or rhodesiensis). Neandertal DNA was also carried into Africa,..."

 

 Again, NO other HOMINIDS EXISTED AT THE TIME OF MODERN MAN other than NEANDERTHALS. That is in the Smithsonian. The date of the heidelbergensis and all other dark skinned hominids were completely extinct by the time the African man was created. THAT IS FALSE INFORMATION you are putting out and not science based at all.

 

THAT AFRICAN INDIVIDUAL HAD NAPPY HAIR, all of the dark skinned primitive hominids DO NOT HAVE NAPPY HAIR!!!

The curl patterns, wave patterns, etc. of mankind today would be another fact that separates modern mankind from even NEANDERTHALS!!!!! 

 

I do agree that Neanderthal DNA was also carried into Africa and not just in certain areas but this whole world has a degree of DNA, however, in African people, it is not as much as others. As you said, the immunity of Neanderthals was a benefit to the females and intersex beings but on the other hand, it was fatal to modern mankind!!!

Black Americans and Native Americans are getting their azzes kicked by the diseases we get from Neanderthals!!! LOL.

 

You see, you are an extreme Supremacist Michel. But hey, you were given a pass to put out these lies with NO EVIDENCE in black communities. LOL. 

 

I have posted 3 genealogical trees and ALL MODERN MANKIND STEM FROM ONE AFRICAN INDIVIDUAL. 

ALL NATIVE AMERICAN HAPLOGROUPS stems from an African origin. 

Now all you are doing is being harassing. 

 

I have posted references: 500 Nations documentary--Kevin Cosner showing the presence of ancient African Native Americans all across the Americas.

I have given you much evidence but you refuse to accept it.

My father-in-law hosted POW WOW annually, and many Natives, including him admit that they have African origins. 

You are not native American, but yet you are so upset about the African presence in Native Americans. 

I have not looked at your video on Olmecs and Mayan, but I hope to, however, I am not that interested in that research right now.

 

I'm sorry, but much of your information is simply wrong. First, evolution is a "theory", but that doesn't mean it isn't proven. Cell theory is proven. Any scientific construct is a theory. There is a mountain of proof confirming that evolution is true. Creationists lie about this, and pretend it doesn't exist. They are liars, and proven to be liars. Ken Ham and all the rest of them: liars. You got a degree in Bio but don't know what a "theory" is? Very strange...

Also, there were half a dozen Homo species alive when sapiens had already evolved, not only neandertals. The list includes: Homo bodoensis, daliensis, Denisovans, naledi, floresiensis, erectus and luzonensis, at the least, making eight Homo species contemporary with sapiens. Bodoensis was still alive in Africa to interbreed with W-Central African sapiens. The anthropologist who discovered this is named Hammer.

I am no supremacist, and that is just name-calling. You simply do not know much about this topic, and when I post real facts you become hysterical. The fact is I'm well-informed about these matters, and you are not. If you wish to engage this topic, learn more about it first, so as not to embarrass yourself.

You "evidence" is statements from people with Native blood! Having Native DNA doesn't give one anthropological knowledge, sorry. Oh hey, I'm part Scottish, so if i say Scots descend from Hercules. it must be true, right? Because I would somehow KNOW this due to my Scottish DNA. That is the argument you're making about Native DNA.

I'm not "upset" about anything. I argue strongly against those who claim Egypt was created by whites or Arabs, since I know that the evidence shows that it was created by black people. So... I'm not black, so why am I "upset" about Egypt? Because my goal is to teach truth.  to dispel lies, to combat racism. Denying the African role in building civilizations like Egypt is racist. Claiming Africans created Native American civilizations is also racist, following the same culture-vulture pattern.

The diseases afflicting Native Americans did not come from neandertalensis. They were brought by European whites. Natives died due to lack of immunity. Europeans in Africa often died because they had no immunity to African diseases. That has nothing to do with other species.

You continue to use the term "intersex" which has no meaning. There were no such individuals. The DNA of the several species mixed with sapiens did not change gender in any way. It was just that male hybrids usually did not survive. Neandertal DNA is not in modern humans because since males did not survive, the Y-DNA was not passed on. Perhaps you are aware that females do not carry the Y chromosome.

So far at least 3 other species are positively identified to have mixed with modern humans: neandertals, Denisovans and the unknown African species which is likely bodoensis. W-Central Africans have a higher % of ancestry from that species than Europeans have from neandertals. Melanesians have twice as much Denisovan ancestry than Europeans have neandertal. In all cases, some of the DNA was deleterious and was eliminated via natural selection (you know, evolution). Advantageous DNA was retained, in all cases. Example: Tibetans interbred with Denisovans and acquired a gene which enables them to better process oxygen at high altitudes.

Graham Hancock has appeared on Joe  Rogan's show! LOL!!! that is where these alternative archaeologists belong... in the nutcase corner. That would have been a good venue for Van Sertima, utterly devoid of academic legitimacy, pop schlock nonsense.

Please indicate some evidence for any of the following in America. If you cannot... well, then move on to some other topic.

1. African DNA

2. African cultural remains

3. African physical remains

4. African boats

5. African crops

....or, any of that from America found in Africa before Columbus.

I know for a fact there is none.

Also, please look up the meaning of "supremacist". You seem not to understand that word either. Someone trained in science and knowledgeable on the topic of human evolution... that doesn't make the person a supremacist in any way. A racist supremacist believes one imaginary "race" is superior to another. Since race doesn't even exist scientifically, the entire notion is absurd and impossible.

7 hours ago, Chevdove said:

 

It doesn't make sense to you @Michel Montvertbecause you're entitled.

 

100% native means they were definitely African.

I repeatedly agree that Neanderthals had YDNA, YOU KEEP TRYING TO INTERJECT A LIE.

 

 

Then stop pushing your evolution.

 

 

Never said they did!!! You keep pushing lies.

Scientist know full well that Neanderthal DNA is around due to the females they have successfully been able to extract!

They know about the YDNA of Neanderthals, easy because of the presence of TRAITS that the modern African males and modern mankind DO NOT EXPRESS.

They know due to hybridization. 

 

 

You can come into AA forums because we generally are a welcoming people and would not treat you the way that we've been treated. And the other reason is because we've been oppressed for so long due to White domination, that some of us have been weakened. So, even if you were a racist, a troll or whatever, Black sites get that kind of behavior all the time. 

 

 

This really bothers you. LOL.

I've presented enough evidence. You just totally upset about this thing.

Just because a genocidal attempt was made to wipe the African presence in the ancient Americas does not erase YDNA evidence found in native Americans today and yesterday. You just don't want to accept it.

 

 

Neandertals... controversial because when it was discovered that non-Africans had mixed with them. everyone jumped on it. To whites suddenly neandertal ancestry was an advantage. To blacks it was often, ha ha we knew you were cave apes. The reality is that neandertal ancestry was negative and positive. The negative aspects have been eliminated by natural selection (evolution, always true). The positive traits were retained, mostly those conferring disease immunity.

Non-European Eurasians of course also have this neandertal admixture, and in the east, especially the far southeast, they also have significant Denisovan admixture.

Sorry, African folks, but it has been found that W-Central Africans also mixed with a non-sapiens species, likely Homo bodoensis (formerly heidelbergensis or rhodesiensis). Neandertal DNA was also carried into Africa, especially in the areas of North Africa. obviously, also Ethiopia, around the Chadic speakers (such as Hausa), into Madagascar by the Malagasy from SE Asia, and in recent centuries in South Africa (Euros, Indians, and others).

The least mixed, the purest sapiens. would be an African who managed to avoid all that admixture. likely from Sudan or Ethiopia area not affected by Semitic or other immigration.

As for America, you've presented no evidence, you just stated that Africans are here. I keep asking for boats, DNA, human remains. cultural items or crops, but there is nothing. But don't feel bad. Such evidence does not exist, so there is no way you can find it. The claims that Olmecs, Maya. etc., were other than purely Native American are considered racist by many indigenous/Mexican activists and scholars. The leading expert on Mesoamerican archaeology, Michael Coe (yes, he's white), utterly dismisses any such claims of anyone coming here but Native Americans.

For a while people were claiming that Luzia, a find in Brazil, was either African or Melanesian/Australian. However. subsequently the DNA of her and other individuals whose remains were found with her at Lagoa Santa was analyzed and it was 100% Native American. Despite that, many online continue to claim that she somehow was "black", a nebulous term which must be defined to use it scientifically. And Kennewick Man, from Washington state, also was confirmed as 100% Native, not in any way European. Many are unaware that Native Americans and Europeans are related through the QR Y-DNA clade which evolved in central Eurasia or northern India (Q ending up in America, R in Indoeuropean speakers and pre-Aryan Indians).

That is the closest link to whites science has found for Native Americans. It is some 25k yrs old. For Africans, it is at least twice that long since there is common ancestry. which would be at the time of OOA. Among Native Americans, the only ancestral DNA found in living or excavated remains is: Y-DNA C & Q; mtDNA A, B, C, D & X. None of those is African. African Y-DNA is A, B & E; mtDNA is L.

The people with African admixture and cultural influence are mostly in Europe and the Mideast. That is not surprising, since those are the regions closest to Africa. The largest genetic influence into Europe was by way of the Neolithics, many of whom had Y-DNA E1b1b, which is African, by way of the Natufians. The Natufian culture influenced the Mideasterners who mixed with them and then created the Neolithic. After that, the greatest cultural influence on Europe from Africans was from Egypt.

There was African trading contact with India in very ancient times, a lot of interaction across the Red Sea, and even in Palaeolithic times there was movement in both directions between Iberia and the Maghreb. Europeans had contact across the continent to China, and with Africa north of the Sahara, and of course the Mideast. Before the Viking visit and then the "Age of Exploration", there really is zero evidence of either Europeans or Africans reaching America.

No, no proof that the Vikings had copper mines in Michigan. no proof of Celtic origins of Iroquois culture, no proof of lost Romans. Phoenicians. Hebrews, Greeks, or anyone else.

7 hours ago, Chevdove said:

 

Then because of this AALBC community, I came to hear about the late Nipsey Hussle and listened to his music, and I thought it was awesome. 

I feel that he was gunned down, perhaps due to just one vengeful man, but it would not surprise me that "the folks who control the purse strings." may have had a hand in stirring up the pot. Like his music, there seems to have been a movement going on amongst the fellas to clean up rap music and stop being negative about Black women and such.

I think you are more likely correct about this, rather than paranoid. I have also found it suspicious, just who gets killed. The obvious case is John Lennon.

It is indeed a battle to get conscious music onto the airwaves and to a larger audience.

Queen Latifa did a rap video about that, calling out the males for being misogynist pigs. One of my 5th-grade students once had me listen to a rap tape, and it was disgusting... glorifying rape, really vile stuff. I said you better not be treating girls like that! He said, oh no, teacher, it's just music, I don't act like that. Good I hope not. Damn!

You say good things, we're arguing over the Olmecs and Maya, but you're cool. It's just an academic disagreement. I think you're correct in suspecting the motives of industry execs. There's an old dramatic play from the late 40s or early 50s, called "USA" by John Dos Passos, in which he has corporate execs all collaborating to control the population through advertising... putting not only "buy this" messages, but also sociocultural programming in the ads. I do believe they engage in elaborate attempts to control popular thinking; that's how much they fear the people.

28 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

 

@Michel Montvert

 This statement you made is totally insane! You have presented no proof! ALL OF THE SCIENTIST WORLDWIDE still say they have not been able to get one single YDNA from any male Neanderthal, and that is because THEY WERE NOT VIABLE PURE YDNA males themselves. 

 

"Neandertals produced males just fine."

 

That is crazy! LOL. You have not proof. The YDNA sample that they recently CONSTRUCTED was done with modern Male YDNA. That is why you do not hear any other reports. Prior to the Creation of the African male, all earlier hominids were COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANYWAY, that's what the Bible reveals, and I hope to shed more research on that later. Prior to the Creation of mankind with STRAIGHT VIABLE YDNA from which ALL MODERN MANKIND STEMS FROM, the primitive hominids that were male were totally different as MALES. The problem with the NEANDERTHALENSIS SPECIES is that they are DENISOVANS THAT MUTATED and this is the key to why they could not produce MALES like the DENISOVANS. 

 

"Neandertals and Denisovans were on that same line which split from sapiens."

 

No that's not what the scientiest of the Smithosonian say! The Denisovans were wiped out thousands of years before the Neanderthals. The Neanderthals existed on this planet as the only primitive hominids for thousands of years before the modern mankind manifested. 

 

"The sapiens line at that time was Homo bodoensis (formerly called heidelbergensis), as sapiens didn't evolve until 300k yrs ago, from what we now know."

 

There is no proof! NONE. I saw the heidelbergensis in the Smithsonian and the date given is way before modern mankind. 

The 3 trees that I presented provide absolute evidence that all mondernmankind stem from the A HAPLOGROUP and one African male individual. 

 

 

 

"NO genetic evidence of any but Native Americans has been found in America"

 

And this then is the repeated statement you keep making that proves to show that you are the most extreme White Supremacist of any kind.

For you to have the entitled freedom to come into a Black community and TELL US NEGROES this unsupported belief of yous with NO evidence is so disrespectful and an insult. For you to dismiss my evidence of the genealogy trees and say that there is no evidence the Native Americans being connected to their AFRICAN ORIGINS is so disrespectful. 

 

Even in Africa, the haplogroups vary amongst Africans, so what give you the right to define the haplgroups of Native Americans as showing no original 'African' traits!?

 

THE ANSWER IS you are a supremacist and can't bring youself to accept scientific evidence that you cannot say this as being truth about Native Americans.

The problem is that you cannot say anything about the White Europeans coming into all of the ancient Americas and launched a massive movement of initially killing off the African Natives of the Americas with a genocidal attempt long before they turned against the Straight-haired Natives and went them too with evil intent. 

 

White racist people can never accept that they stem from African people so, they try to say that earlier hominids were here as male and female and that is just not true!!!

 

Are you a racist @Michel Montvert[?]--No, I don't completely believe that you are, however, you are a supremacist based on what you are doing here. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is utter nonsense. A supremacist? For saying the Olmec and Maya were 100% Native, I'm a supremacist?  That doesn't even make sense.

And you do not understand DNA. obviously. All mammalian species have males, with Y-DNA. Look at chimps. They have males. So did neandertals. There is no Y-DNA analyzed from neandertals because DNA decays! And in the damp climate of Europe it decays faster than in a dry place like Syria. It is not that neandertals lacked Y-DNA, it is that we've so far been unable to extract a sample.

Whites online and elsewhere are constantly accusing me of "hating white people" because I criticize them for their racism. So if I'm a racist, I must hate the entire human race. And in fact humans as a whole do piss me off...

Why would I be on a black forum? Because AA forums are the best ones! There's more of interest, more intelligence. Most forums are shit shows. This one is a breath of fresh air. This is true generally of AA sites online.

I've lost track of what you're arguing. I know that there is ZERO evidence for Africans or anyone else in America, so really this gets down to... see if you can find evidence. I keep up with anthropology and know very well that there is none. or I'd have heard of it. Show us: African boats, African human remains. African DNA. African cultural items, African crops. I am requesting that evidence if you are going to persist in supporting unfounded theories about human migrations.

Just the facts, ma'am.

21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Michel Montvert

Not sure if you'd admit to this even if you believed it yourself, however I've constantly said on this site that there has been an OBVIOUS decline in AfroAmerican musical talent over the past 50 years or so.

When you compare the AfroAmerican musicians TODAY with those of the past...especially the 70s and back....not only have fewer AfroAmericans come up with ORIGINAL musical beats but fewer know how to play actual musical instruments like drums, horns, and pianos.

And the LYRICS of the songs have become so outrageously inferior compared to the past.
The stupidity, the glorification of criminality and immorality, the "mumbling" of words to the point that you can't even understand most of the lyrics.
It's atrocious and embarrassing.

It's as if the worse of AfroAmerican sub-culture is being promoted by promoting today's music and today's artists.

I expect to hear some push back from @ProfD over my comment.....lol...but an observation is an observation.
 

Your comment is entirely true, and still true if you remove the qualifer "African-American". Look at the white music! It stinks! We went from Bob Dylan to Justin Timberlake.

There have been brief flashes of light over the recent decades. Snoop Dogg was creative and funny. There are occasional good things, but yeah it bores me shitless.

Lately I listen mostly to Toots & the Maytals,. Marley, Bob Dylan and Ali Farka Touré (and his son Vieux).

The political side of this is that those in power tightened their control of the music industry following the explosion of music which threatened them. in the 60s and 70s. They introduced playlists, DJs playing only approved songs. Songs expressing dysfunctional culture. Glorification of violence and misogyny. It is BY DESIGN.