AI makes things too easy

[Delano]

It's rewarding solving a difficult task.

[ProfD]

I'm curious to see how long it will take before AI can relieve me of having to do yard work, fix things and knock out home improvement jobs just to name a few.

[Troy]

@Delano that’s true and with AI you can solve even more difficult problems, which is more rewarding.

 

@ProfD it is artificial intelligence, so while AI can tell you how to do something, Artificial labor will probably take a bit more time, unless you are a truck driver

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, Troy said:

@Delano that’s true and with AI you can solve even more difficult problems, which is more rewarding.

 

@ProfD it is artificial intelligence, so while AI can tell you how to do something, Artificial labor will probably take a bit more time, unless you are a truck driver

My vehicle of choice is a truck but I'm not a truck driver by profession.

 

I realize AI is being used to produce content right now. 

 

I'm looking at a future of AI lawnmowers. A higher tech version of that  Roomba vacuum cleaner. 

[Delano]

On 4/24/2024 at 1:36 PM, Troy said:

that’s true and with AI you can solve even more difficult problems, which is more rewarding.

What will become of people when they no longer have to think or work. I reckon that drugs, VR and escapism will be more dominant than they already are. Which will may result in the collapse of civilisation

[aka Contrarian]

6 minutes ago, Delano said:

What will become of people when they no longer have to think or work. I reckon that drugs, VR and escapism will be more dominant than they already are. Which will may result in the collapse of civilisation

@DelanoI agree. Looks like life as we know it will eventually succumb to the technology that will subsequently eliminate humans - and ultimately itself. What remains will be the "back-to-square-one" phenomena during which a huge explosion will once again occur as the  "creator" keeps on trying til it turns out right.  🗯

See ya next time. Maybe.

 

[ProfD]

10 hours ago, Delano said:

What will become of people when they no longer have to think or work. 

For those so fortunate, every day will be like the weekend or whatever day folks don't have to do physical labor in order to survive.

 

Already, there are many jobs that are glorified welfare.  IOW, the world would not stop spinning if nobody sat in that office or cubicle. 

 

AI will allow those people to literally sit at home and collect their UBI (Universal Basic Income). 

 

It will be very similar to retirees, folks on worker's compensation, disability and welfare, etc.

.

There is always a few billion people on the planet who have never had to work a day in their lives. We call them children.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, most people in oil rich countries don't work to survive.  The job is more of an avocation.

 

Civilization will not collapse just because a few billion people are on permanent vacation. 

 

There's no shortage of real work that has to be done.  No way to outsource it.  Not even technologically. 

[Delano]

7 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

Civilization will not collapse just because a few billion people are on permanent

You may be an exception but most people can't handle large blocks of free time.

Some retirees literally drop dead once they stop working. Also you often hear the story of successful entertainers developing an addiction. The other example I use is Covid. Work provides structure and social interaction. So as much as people say they wish they didn't have to work reality is much different. In addition a study was done on people who won millions on the lottery

. The only people who weren't broke were the ones who kept their jobs.

 

If people used their free time productively the entertainment industry would be a fraction of its current size. 

 

In Australia a lot of retirees gamble. While some are gamblers most have a lot of time. I used to go to dive bars in New York and there were a few patrons who were there all day.

 

While that's not everyone and may not be a large percentage of people it is an issue.

[ProfD]

15 hours ago, Delano said:

Work provides structure and social interaction.

Right.  But, a lot of so called work doesn't really produce anything tangible. 

 

Many jobs are the equivalent of a daycare center for adults.  Designed to keep people *busy*.

 

As I mentioned above, there are many jobs that could disappear and society would not fall apart. 

 

OTOH, there are many jobs that are necessary.  Blue collar jobs where people make, build and fix things.  Service industry jobs where people provide  products, goods and entertainment.  Transportation-related jobs are vitally important to an economy.   Entertainment is a job.

 

The pandemic actually showed that people could work from home instead of commuting back and forth and causing traffic jams. 

 

In most white collar jobs, 60% of the work involves a computer and the other 40% is meetings. 

 

In the future, many of those computer-based jobs will be replaced by AI.  Higher unemployment.

 

It is true that many people who are accustomed to the routine of being a hamster on a wheel when told to get off don't know what to do with themselves.  Some of them atrophy and die. 

 

I know a whole lot of people who have been retired the majority of their lives.  Never really worked anywhere.

 

Most wealthy people and their families don't have to work.  They aren't running around committing mass suicide either.  

 

The number of people who can be supported by one person with millions or billions of dollars is exponential.  The same applies to countries with  countries with socialist governments. 

 

There's a reason we hear talk of reducing the number of hours per week that people work.  Provide more free time in an effort to increase quality of life. 

[Delano]

9 hours ago, ProfD said:

Many jobs are the equivalent of a daycare center for adults.  Designed to keep people *busy*.

Is it true the army had soldiers dig a ditch then refill it.

 

I just don't see it. People used to read on the train ride to work. People have more of relationship with their phone than other people. Myself included as is evident by the forum.

 

What do people do now? I see babies on phones. I see parents on phone and sometimes the kids on a phone. I see couples at restaurants on phones. So once people stop working do they put down their phones? In the pandemic how many people do you know that did something they wanted to do, but didn't have time?

 

I am outside watching people walk by the only people not on a phone or carrying their phone like a pacifier for the mind. Are older people and immigrants. Even homeless beggars are I. their phones while they are asking for money.

 

I just saw this on Facebook. I don't know if this makes your point or mine.

Kurt Vonnegut tells his wife he's going out to buy an envelope:

“Oh, she says, well, you're not a poor man. You know, why don't you go online and buy a hundred envelopes and put them in the closet? And so I pretend not to hear her. And go out to get an envelope because I'm going to have a hell of a good time in the process of buying one envelope.

I meet a lot of people. And see some great looking babies. And a fire engine goes by. And I give them the thumbs up. And I'll ask a woman what kind of dog that is. And, and I don't know. The moral of the story is - we're here on Earth to fart around.

And, of course, the computers will do us out of that. And what the computer people don't realize, or they don't care, is we're dancing animals. You know, we love to move around. And it's like we're not supposed to dance at all anymore."

Let's all get up and move around a bit right now... or at least dance

 

[Troy]

@ProfD Transportation: Planes fly themselves (for all practical purposes). The trains I ride in many places are fully automated, and self-driving trucks are on the roads today as well as self-driving taxis.

 

There are people who will never stop working. I'm one of them. 

 

People are addicted to their phones.  I have to be very intentional on how I used my phone in order to avoid becoming addicted to it. Itis a great tool, so I'm not getting rid of it but I have to be careful with it.

 

I OFTEN see men at urinals one hand on their penis and the other on their phone?! These dudes usually leave the bathroom without washing their hands.  How many of us know someone who has dropped their phone in the toliet by accident. People can't even drop a deuce without their phone.

 

@Delano I don't read a daily newspaper anymore (1) they are very expensive and (2) they are not as widely available as they once were.  You used to be able to buy a newspaper or get a free like the Village Voice or Newsday one in most subways stations, but those days are long gone... 

 

[ProfD]

12 hours ago, Troy said:

Transportation: Planes fly themselves (for all practical purposes). The trains I ride in many places are fully automated, and self-driving trucks are on the roads today as well as self-driving taxis.

Sure. There is plenty technology in transportation vehicles.

 

For now, in most commercial transportation, a human still sits in the driver's seat. Just in case a manual override is required.

 

12 hours ago, Troy said:

There are people who will never stop working. I'm one of them. 

 

Same here.

 

People like us have always been around. That won't change especially when it comes to work that can only be done physically.

[Delano]

I like to solve puzzles. 

 

I think therefore I am.

 

What happens when as a civilisation we no longer have to think.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Delano said:

What happens when as a civilisation we no longer have to think.

When folks have more free time on their hands, civilization will end up with more thinkers.

[aka Contrarian]

Actually, I've reached the point in my life where I no longer have to work for anything, living off a generous pension, having everything done for me by my family or hired help or computerized technology. I am a generic beneficiary of AI.

 

Mostly all my friends and contemporaries are dead and, by choice, my social life is nearly non existent. Alas - I am too unsteady on my feet to dance and revel. >sigh<

 

But -  television is my window to the world, recently allowing me to watch the NFL draft in Detroit and see da Bears for the first time in over 20 years exercise their first pick privilege, selecting a Heisman trophy QB as Chicago's hopes for a winning season soar!

I also watch the news and pop culture programs and late night talk shows and documentaries about a variety of subjects dealing with both the past and the present.

My phone is my companion which, via social media, enables me to interact with "frienemies" and play card games with robots and scroll through comedy club video clips of foul-mouthed stand-up comics and music videos from back in the day.

My plush adjustable recliner is my  lover in whose arms I languish and snooze and reminisce...

Weather permitting, I go for a daily stroll up and down my driveway. What about reading books, you ask! As a lifelong reader, unfortunately, my short attention span has hampered this pass time, but I still manage to fit an occasional crossword puzzle into my routine to preserve my love of language. 

Very little cooking for me. Ignoring diets, I snack on goodies, and feast on a variety of fast foods - liberated by my vices. So goes what's left of my one-day-at-a-time life.

 

Is this the chronicle of a lonely person? No, it is not. It is a preview of what Artificial lntelligence will improve upon. 

But there's one last thing that makes it all work for me. it is what Delano, Troy, and ProfD instinctively know.  And  it all has somethijg  to do with the "who that is you" discipline .  I am good company for myself; my own best friend. I am never alone.  And when all the substitutes for participation  recede, Me, Myself, and I, commune, -  energized by solitude. Awareness is the ultimate defense against  the potential toxicity of AI.   Don't forget to think.

[Troy]

12 hours ago, Delano said:

What happens when as a civilisation we no longer have to think.

what makes you believe we are thinking now

 

 

20 hours ago, ProfD said:

For now, in most commercial transportation, a human still sits in the driver's seat. Just in case a manual override is required.

“for now” is the operative phrase for now will probably not be as long as you think.

 

11 hours ago, ProfD said:

When folks have more free time on their hands, civilization will end up with more thinkers.

That would seem to make sense, but what appears to be happening is we have more followers people who are more easily manipulated by the information they consume rather than using it to develop better and more sound ideas

 

@aka Contrarian thank you. you are, as people in some circles would say, blessed  

 

Do you think someone in your position 75 years ago would’ve been less well off? You are old enough to have been able to witness this, a time before personal computers, cell phones, televisions, and maybe even plush recliners.

 

You are in the last generation of people old enough to have known someone who was formerly enslaved. Did I ever ask you if you did?

[ProfD]

@aka Contrarian provides an excellent peek into the window of someone who doesn't have to work.

 

It doesn't matter that she did X number of years in the trenches  to afford her a generous pension.

 

The fact is that she has not atrophied or turned into a menace to society because she no longer has to punch a clock and labor.

 

Evil and greedy people have always used the cheapest form of labor to enrich themselves. Slavery is the best and worst example of it. 

 

In the modern era, there are many countries throughout the world providing a cheap labor force to enrich the most powerful countries.

 

Humans have been inventing and using some type of machine to work for them simce the beginning of civilization. AI is a part of the same continuum.

[Delano]

8 hours ago, ProfD said:

to enrich 

 

Humans have been inventing and using some type of machine to work for them simce the beginning of civilization. AI is a part of the same continuum

I would say there is a huge difference.

 

In the past you had craftsmen, artisans and artist. You develope skill by by learning how to use your tools. 

 

Using AI may result I. The end product but it circumvents the process that improves your skill.

 

For certain tasks like writing code AI is a boon. For anything creative I think you still need innate ability. My favourite art capture something or changes how we see the world.

 

If Artificial Inspiration can be programmed that is a game changer. In short it has to become fundamentally human. Which creates serious ethical and legal problems. 

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Delano said:

In the past you had craftsmen, artisans and artist. You develope skill by by learning how to use your tools.

That won't change especially when it comes to custom work.

 

Anything cookie-cutter like IKEA furniture can be made by robots.

2 hours ago, Delano said:

For anything creative I think you still need innate ability.

Absolutely. Creativity is human trait.

 

2 hours ago, Delano said:

If Artificial Inspiration can be programmed that is a game changer. In short it has to become fundamentally human. Which creates serious ethical and legal problems. 

 No worries. Inspiration cannot be programmed into an algorithm. Especially considering not all human beings can be inspired to create and/or produce.

[aka Contrarian]

Will we ever know what the final effect AI will have on Humanity? Or will it be programmed out of our consciousness?

 

 

On 4/28/2024 at 7:43 AM, Troy said:

 

@aka Contrarian 

You are in the last generation of people old enough to have known someone who was formerly enslaved. Did I ever ask you if you did?

@TroyNo  I never knew an ex slave. Although there were a few of them still alive in the 1960s.

However, both my mother and my father were the grandchildren of slaves.

As to whether  or not someone  90 years old would've been better off 75 years ago than I am now, I don't know. They certainly would be more self sufficient if they were  healthy. Having more free time to contemplate life mightve made them a wiser person, and more serene.

[Troy]

On 4/28/2024 at 6:53 PM, Delano said:

In short it has to become fundamentally human. Which creates serious ethical and legal problems. 

This implies that being human is the pinnacle.
 

AI has the ability to become something far superior to a human. 

 

 

[Delano]

I wasn't implying that. If AI has the rights of a person then terminating it is akin to murder. 

[Troy]

@Delano If AI becomes superior to humans the rights we bestow on  it and the murder question are irrelevant. The power dynamic will have shifted. AI would potentially be as concerned about us as we are with chickens.

 

AI would know us better than we know ourselves and train us to do their bidding the way we train animals. That is assuming AI found it necessary to keep us around and not exterminate us like vermin.

 

@aka Contrarian  I often wonder if life would be better without technology. It seems no one is able to make the evaluation given the bias of living in a given time. I’m old enough to remember days before technology was in use and I’m not convinced we were less happy. 
 

technology has brought us longer healthier lives, the ability to travel cheaply and widely, more food, access to information and entertainment, but I’m not convinced people are actually happier. 

 

I doubt white men are happier. Women are probably happier, but that may have more to do with freedoms enjoyed by civil rights.

 

One could argue that the increased happiness Black people enjoy due to emancipation and civil rights has been wiped out by technology. 
 

net-net I believe I’m personally better off with tech, but as a society I’m not so sure. The quote from Kurt V, @Delano shared was a excellent example.

[ProfD]

IMO, since the beginning of time, technology has never been the enemy.   

 

Humans have become a lot more efficient as a result of technology.

 

As always, how we choose to utilize technology whether for good or bad will determine our outcome as a species.

 

For a long time now, some religious people have proclaimed we are living in the last of evil days (Revelations). 

 

It would be hilarious if AI became advanced enough to be the proverbial nail in the coffin of humans. 

 

No mark of the beast and fire and brimstone.  A super-computer or robots just turning out the lights and putting humans to sleep permanently. 

[Delano]

11 hours ago, Troy said:

@Delano If AI becomes superior to humans the rights we bestow on  it and the murder question are irrelevant. The power dynamic will have shifted. AI would potentially be as concerned about us as we are with chickens.

 

AI would know us better than we know ourselves and train us to do their bidding the way we train animals. That is assuming AI found it necessary to keep us around and not exterminate us like vermin.

You are assuming that AI will have human wants and desires. Even though it may appear that way. I don't know how you could program motivation onto AI.

[ProfD]

48 minutes ago, Delano said:

You are assuming that AI will have human wants and desires. Even though it may appear that way. I don't know how you could program motivation onto AI.

Science fiction writers have provided a few scenarios where computers come alive. We can only hope that information doesn't become an algorithm.

[Troy]

@Delano actually I’m assuming AI will NOT have human characteristics when it surpasses us. I tried to convey that with my comments. When AI is sufficiently advanced humanity will be of no l consequence. 
 

Keep in mind AI is not “programmed” in the traditional sense. 
 

7 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Science fiction writers

 
absolutely the sister who wrote the matrix is feeling write prescient right now.

[Delano]

34 minutes ago, Troy said:

@Delano actually I’m assuming AI will NOT have human characteristics when it surpasses us. I tried to convey that with my comments. When AI is sufficiently advanced humanity will be of no l consequence. 
 

Keep in mind AI is not “programmed” in the traditional sense. 
 

 
absolutely the sister who wrote the matrix is feeling write prescient right now.

There is no logical reason for AI to terminate humans unless it has human drives.

Unless it becomes conscious itself aware. Which I can't imagine. That doesn't rule it out though.

[Troy]

12 minutes ago, Delano said:

Unless it becomes conscious itself aware. Which I can't imagine.

 
yeah it is hard to wrap your mind around that. I think it is because we think too much of ourselves. 
 

how many living creatures did you kill today without even thinking about it? Smashing ants to death as you walked down the street.

[aka Contrarian]

On 5/1/2024 at 6:30 AM, Troy said:

 

 

@aka Contrarian  I often wonder if life would be better without technology. It seems no one is able to make the evaluation given the bias of living in a given time...

l@Troyas far as happiness goes, any technology that replaces tedious drugery can be a temporary fix. But technology that usurps creativity can replace the joy of discovery. Children, in particular, need to be outside running free, interacting, and improvising rather than being as they are today, cooped up inside, preoccupied with computerized devices.  AI is a convenience that saves time to spend on leisure. But It does so at the cost of the creativity and spontaneity which can give rise to enjoyment and -  happiness!

 

What if, as ProfD hints,  AI comes up with an artificial  companion, - an  android to satisfy all of our needs, an all-purpose mate. The worst case scenario could lead to humanity becoming obsolete, its members ultimately having no use for each other; science fiction becoming science fact!

We may have to find a way for artificial Intelligence to keep itself in check...

[Delano]

The Unabomber said that we are slaves to technology. So while I don't condone the violence his premise was correct.

[Troy]

10 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

AI is a convenience that saves time to spend on leisure. But It does so at the cost of the creativity and spontaneity which can give rise to enjoyment and -  happiness!

I think it can do both but we have to be very careful. The geniuses behind the companies that run AI indeed on AI don’t really care about anything but making money so doing both will be exceedingly challenging.

 

10 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

AI comes up with an artificial  companion, - an  android to satisfy all of our needs

where do I sign up! By the time science is advanced we can cultivate more humans in artificial wombs. 
 

have you seen the film Ex Machina? If not I highly recommend it

 

Yes I agree that we are slaves to tech @Delano but it does not have to be way, it is just very lucrative, so there is no incentive to change.