Time for a New Pope

[frankster]

On 7/19/2025 at 3:13 PM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

 

 

Cool.

I agree your Rights can be Denied...

 

Then they aren't inalienable as you claimed.

They remain inalienable....they can be denied

Some one can deny your humanity and treat inhumanely.....but you are still human

 

On 7/19/2025 at 3:13 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Lastly you going all the way back to his childhood....before he became an adult and developed his own mind is a weak argument - he would have been considered a minor and not entirely responsibile for his decisions or actions as he would be under the care and guidance of the adults in his family having not reach the age of Maturity/majority or Responsibility

 

Perhaps you're confusing a "weak argument" with an "easy win" since it clearly proves you wrong...lol.

Your suggesting that Dr. Clarke has never compromised or submitted to racism flies in the face of common sense.

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/19/2025 at 3:13 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Even in the heart of slavedom in the Antibellum Southern United States South of the Mason Dixon line Quakers never accept or practice Race and or Racism in their communities as a rule law or way of life.

 

In THEIR communities.
But once a Black Quaker steps OUTSIDE of that community, he's subject to the same laws and rules that other Black people are subject to.

Yes and in the larger society they undermine refute and stood against it

 

On 7/19/2025 at 3:13 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Yet you still have not answered yes or no....lol

 

And neither have you.
And YOU were the first one to be asked the question.

You ask a question that you refuse to give a straight answer to....means it is not a genuine question but a gambit.

Your ruse failed.

[Pioneer1]

frankster

They remain inalienable....they can be denied
 

What exactly do you mean be "denied"????

 

You ask a question that you refuse to give a straight answer to....means it is not a genuine question but a gambit.
 

The QUESTION ITSELF was straightfoward.
You simply refused....and still refuse...to answer it.
 

[frankster]

On 7/27/2025 at 12:38 PM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

They remain inalienable....they can be denied
 

What exactly do you mean be "denied"????

Where in societies and or individuals do not recognize your rights

 

On 7/27/2025 at 12:38 PM, Pioneer1 said:

You ask a question that you refuse to give a straight answer to....means it is not a genuine question but a gambit.
 

The QUESTION ITSELF was straightfoward.
You simply refused....and still refuse...to answer it.

So do you...

[Pioneer1]

frankster

Where in societies and or individuals do not recognize your rights

If they aren't recognized by society or individuals, they aren't rights.

That's like a man claiming to have a Driver's License but it's not recognized by the State....lol.

So do you...
 

Yet, I didn't make the bold and ridiculous claim that telling ONE lie makes a person a "liar".

[frankster]

On 8/9/2025 at 7:18 AM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

Where in societies and or individuals do not recognize your rights

If they aren't recognized by society or individuals, they aren't rights.

What then are rights?

 

On 8/9/2025 at 7:18 AM, Pioneer1 said:

That's like a man claiming to have a Driver's License but it's not recognized by the State....lol.

Yep....though a dreivers license is a privilege...

A man can institute laws that say.....you are not a human being and proceed to treat you accordingly.

His denial of your humanity does not make you non-human.

 

On 8/9/2025 at 7:18 AM, Pioneer1 said:

So do you...
 

Yet, I didn't make the bold and ridiculous claim that telling ONE lie makes a person a "liar".

yet you still refuse to answer....your own question

[Pioneer1]

frankster

What then are rights?
 

Permissions granted by law because of your position in society.

Yep....though a dreivers license is a privilege...
 

And water is wet...lol....tell me something I don't know.

A man can institute laws that say.....you are not a human being and proceed to treat you accordingly.
His denial of your humanity does not make you non-human.

Again, what does this have to do with you providing me with the list of inalienable rights?

yet you still refuse to answer....your own question

Because I didn't ask MYSELF the question, I asked YOU the question.

And you have yet to answer it.

[frankster]

On 8/17/2025 at 8:05 PM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

What then are rights?
 

Permissions granted by law because of your position in society.

Rights are Yours grant by Nature

 

On 8/17/2025 at 8:05 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Yep....though a dreivers license is a privilege...
 

And water is wet...lol....tell me something I don't know.

cool

 

On 8/17/2025 at 8:05 PM, Pioneer1 said:

A man can institute laws that say.....you are not a human being and proceed to treat you accordingly.
His denial of your humanity does not make you non-human.

Again, what does this have to do with you providing me with the list of inalienable rights?

Google it....i refuse to do for you what  you should do for yourself.

 

On 8/17/2025 at 8:05 PM, Pioneer1 said:

yet you still refuse to answer....your own question

Because I didn't ask MYSELF the question, I asked YOU the question.

And you have yet to answer it.

You have already answered....it only served to confirmed what I already knew

I quote:  Who HASN'T told a lie, before????

One thing is clear from that response.....you have lied.

[Troy]

On 8/20/2025 at 3:49 PM, frankster said:

Rights are Yours grant by Nature

 

Name a right "granted by nature," that can't be taken away by a law.

[Pioneer1]

frankster

Rights are Yours grant by Nature
 

Rights aren't granted/given by Nature.
It's a SOCIETAL/LEGAL benefit granted by the state.


 

Google it....i refuse to do for you what  you should do for yourself
 

How can I "google" something that only exists in your imagination, lol.

You have already answered....it only served to confirmed what I already knew

I quote:  Who HASN'T told a lie, before????

One thing is clear from that response.....you have lied.
 

It wasn't just a response but a QUESTION.
And one may wonder what your refusal to answer that question with "I haven't lied",  makes clear about YOU...lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

Name a right "granted by nature," that can't be taken away by a law.

I tried this already.....lol.

If you want a detailed map of the Rabbit Hole he'll take you down and through trying to get an accurate answer out of him, read though the last couple pages....lol.
 

 

 

 

 

[frankster]

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

Rights are Yours grant by Nature
 

Rights aren't granted/given by Nature.
It's a SOCIETAL/LEGAL benefit granted by the state.

These Rights are yours by Nature

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

Google it....i refuse to do for you what  you should do for yourself
 

How can I "google" something that only exists in your imagination, lol.

Natural Rights

So you refuse to look it up....lol

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You have already answered....it only served to confirmed what I already knew

I quote:  Who HASN'T told a lie, before????

One thing is clear from that response.....you have lied.
 

It wasn't just a response but a QUESTION.
And one may wonder what your refusal to answer that question with "I haven't lied",  makes clear about YOU...lol.

Yours is  a rhertorical question used to make a persuasive point....you have lied and so have many other people

My refusal to answer is just that a refusal to answer

[Troy]

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I tried this already.....lol.

 

Sorry this conversation started back in April, and I have not read all of it.  Still, I'm curious to know what right you believe what "right" a man has that cannot be usurped or granted by a government.

[Pioneer1]

frankster

 

 

These Rights are yours by Nature

 

WHICH rights are you speaking of, specifically?

 

 

Natural Rights

 

Again, what EXACTLY are you calling "natural rights"?
I may actually agree with you, but I'd like to know exactly what you're referring to first.

 

 

My refusal to answer is just that a refusal to answer

 

And there's a reason WHY you refuse to answer that question.
It would probably be self-incriminating....lol.

Although you refuse to directly come out and say it, the fact that you would seriously come before other adults and try to suggest or give the impression that you have never lied before actually speaks volumes about your arrogance.
 

[frankster]

On 8/30/2025 at 8:29 AM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

 

 

These Rights are yours by Nature

 

WHICH rights are you speaking of, specifically?

Natural Human Rights....

 

On 8/30/2025 at 8:29 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Natural Rights

 

Again, what EXACTLY are you calling "natural rights"?
I may actually agree with you, but I'd like to know exactly what you're referring to first.

I know you know and if not you know how to find out...

 

On 8/30/2025 at 8:29 AM, Pioneer1 said:

My refusal to answer is just that a refusal to answer

 

And there's a reason WHY you refuse to answer that question.
It would probably be self-incriminating....lol.

Although you refuse to directly come out and say it, the fact that you would seriously come before other adults and try to suggest or give the impression that you have never lied before actually speaks volumes about your arrogance.
 

One does not and should not answer a rhetorical gambit

Rhetorical questions do not demand an answer...they in themself is both the question and the answer

 

[Pioneer1]

frankster

 

 

 

Natural Human Rights....

 

But rights...human or otherwise...aren't natural.
They are granted by the State.

 

 

 

I know you know and if not you know how to find out...

 

Yeah.
I find out by ASKING YOU.
....since you were the one who said it.

 

 

One does not and should not answer a rhetorical gambit

Rhetorical questions do not demand an answer...they in themself is both the question and the answer

 

Seems to me that the INQUIRER would be the one to decide whether or not their question was "rhetorical", not the one being questioned.

YOU have decided that my question was rhetorical.
I haven't.
It was an actual question that seeks an actual answer from you.

[frankster]

On 9/4/2025 at 7:45 PM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

 

 

 

Natural Human Rights....

 

But rights...human or otherwise...aren't natural.
They are granted by the State.

Human beings exist before and some exist without any state.

 

 

On 9/4/2025 at 7:45 PM, Pioneer1 said:

 

I know you know and if not you know how to find out...

 

Yeah.
I find out by ASKING YOU.
....since you were the one who said it.

And I am telling you where to find it.

 

On 9/4/2025 at 7:45 PM, Pioneer1 said:

One does not and should not answer a rhetorical gambit

Rhetorical questions do not demand an answer...they in themself is both the question and the answer

 

Seems to me that the INQUIRER would be the one to decide whether or not their question was "rhetorical", not the one being questioned.

YOU have decided that my question was rhetorical.
I haven't.
It was an actual question that seeks an actual answer from you.

You have already answered your own question....i need not answer it

[Pioneer1]

frankster

 

 

Human beings exist before and some exist without any state.

Yes.
And they often didn't have any rights THEN that others respected.

 

 

 

And I am telling you where to find it.

 

No, what you are attempting to do is RE-directed me and MIS-lead me.

YOU are the one talking about these things so as far as I'm concerned YOU are the source of this statement until you can prove otherwise.
So I ask YOU to list these "unalienable rights that can't be taken away".



 

You have already answered your own question....i need not answer it
 

I didn't answer it because it was a question FOR YOU.

I don't speak for YOU.

YOU are the only human being who actually knows whether or not you've ever lied.
This is why I'm asking you directly.

Care to give me an answer?

[frankster]

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

 

 

Human beings exist before and some exist without any state.

Yes.
And they often didn't have any rights THEN that others respected.

Rights are inherent....you are born with them..

 

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

 

 

And I am telling you where to find it.

 

No, what you are attempting to do is RE-directed me and MIS-lead me.

YOU are the one talking about these things so as far as I'm concerned YOU are the source of this statement until you can prove otherwise.
So I ask YOU to list these "unalienable rights that can't be taken away".

I have responded to this question already

 

 

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You have already answered your own question....i need not answer it
 

I didn't answer it because it was a question FOR YOU.

Yes you did

 

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I don't speak for YOU.

YOU are the only human being who actually knows whether or not you've ever lied.
This is why I'm asking you directly.

Care to give me an answer?

You seemed to have already answered for everyone...

[Pioneer1]

frankster

Rights are inherent....you are born with them..
 

Oh.
Were the Slaves in the United States born with rights?

I have responded to this question already

Questions demand more than just a response.
They demand ANSWERS.
 

If I ask somebody what time it is; just them LOOKING in my direction is a "response".
It's not an answer, though.



 

You seemed to have already answered for everyone...
 

Perhaps "seemed" is a fitting word, because regardless of how things may have looked to a mind influenced by "sticky green", the truth is....that question hasn't been answered.

[frankster]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

Rights are inherent....you are born with them..
 

Oh.
Were the Slaves in the United States born with rights?

Yes....

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I have responded to this question already

Questions demand more than just a response.
They demand ANSWERS.
 

If I ask somebody what time it is; just them LOOKING in my direction is a "response".
It's not an answer, though.

If in the question they then proceeded to tell me what time they think it is.....then i no longer feel the need to answer.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You seemed to have already answered for everyone...
 

Perhaps "seemed" is a fitting word, because regardless of how things may have looked to a mind influenced by "sticky green", the truth is....that question hasn't been answered.

The only "seemed" in there is your attempt to speak for every one....

Whilst in reality you were really only speaking for yourself....

[Pioneer1]

23 minutes ago, frankster said:

 

If in the question they then proceeded to tell me what time they think it is.....then i no longer feel the need to answer.

 

 

Wouldest thou leave them in error to dwelleth in the valley of confusion, out of mere spite?

[frankster]

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

Wouldest thou leave them in error to dwelleth in the valley of confusion, out of mere spite?

Matthew 7:6

[Pioneer1]

On 9/8/2025 at 7:11 AM, frankster said:

Matthew 7:6

 

Ezekiel Chapter 3   18-19 :

"If I say to wicked people, ‘You are headed toward certain death,’ and you fail to give them warning by not speaking up to warn the evil ones against their evil courses so as to keep them alive, then the wicked ones will die for their sinful deeds. But I will hold you responsible for their deaths.  But if you do warn the wicked and they keep sinning anyway, they’ll most certainly die for their sin, but you won’t die. You’ll have saved your life. "
 

[frankster]

51 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

Ezekiel Chapter 3   18-19 :

"If I say to wicked people, ‘You are headed toward certain death,’ and you fail to give them warning by not speaking up to warn the evil ones against their evil courses so as to keep them alive, then the wicked ones will die for their sinful deeds. But I will hold you responsible for their deaths.  But if you do warn the wicked and they keep sinning anyway, they’ll most certainly die for their sin, but you won’t die. You’ll have saved your life. "
 

You are not headed toward certain death.....

Instead you are trying to make a mockery of me....

 

 

Proverbs 9:7

He who corrects a mocker brings shame on himself; he who rebukes a wicked man taints himself. / Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

[Pioneer1]

28 minutes ago, frankster said:

 

Proverbs 9:7

He who corrects a mocker brings shame on himself; he who rebukes a wicked man taints himself. / Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

 

 

James 4  17:
"So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin."


So the question....is correcting someone you believe is in error the RIGHT thing to do?
 

 

[frankster]

Proverbs 18:2

Fools don’t want to learn from others. They only want to tell their own ideas.

 

[Pioneer1]

2 hours ago, frankster said:

Proverbs 18:2

Fools don’t want to learn from others. They only want to tell their own ideas.

 

Matthew 5   22:

 and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[frankster]

Jesus says in Matthew 23:17 & Luke 11:40

Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?

 

Proverbs 12:15

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

[Pioneer1]

35 minutes ago, frankster said:

Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Acts 17   24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands

 

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, frankster said:

Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?

 

Matthew 5   22:
 but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

No need to dig up a new verse to counter that one.
It's as plain as day.
 

 

[frankster]

10 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Acts 17   24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands

 

 

 

 

 

 

Matthew 5   22:
 but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

No need to dig up a new verse to counter that one.
It's as plain as day.
 

 

Is Jesus in danger of Hell fire?

[Pioneer1]

Just now, frankster said:

Is Jesus in danger of Hell fire?

You tell me.
YOU believe in the scriptures.

Either they mean what they say....or they don't.

[frankster]

1 minute ago, Pioneer1 said:

You tell me.
YOU believe in the scriptures.

Either they mean what they say....or they don't.

Where do you think hell?

[Pioneer1]

4 minutes ago, frankster said:

Where do you think hell?

I don't know.

[frankster]

On 9/14/2025 at 4:14 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I don't know.

Hell as in Gehanna is a place where refused is burned...impurities are removed

Hell as in sheol is where the dead are buried....released from the Shell

Hellfire is a Furnace ....crematorium - purification

Hell like the Kingdom of God is a state of Mind

[Pioneer1]

58 minutes ago, frankster said:

Hell as in Gehanna is a place where refused is burned...impurities are removed

Hell as in sheol is where the dead are buried....released from the Shell

Hellfire is a Furnace ....crematorium - purification

Hell like the Kingdom of God is a state of Mind

Do you know anyone personally who has actually BEEN to these places to verify them?
Have you ever seen them YOURSELF to verify them?
Has any Divine Entity come to you and verified them?

[frankster]

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Do you know anyone personally who has actually BEEN to these places to verify them?

Yes

 

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Have you ever seen them YOURSELF to verify them?

Been there

 

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Has any Divine Entity come to you and verified them?

Yes...

[Pioneer1]

11 hours ago, frankster said:

Yes

 

Been there

 

Yes...

Are you saying that you've actually been to "Sheol" or "Hell" to verify it?
If so, please tell what happened.....the experience and circumstances.

I actually study and collect Near Death and other Spiritual Experiences.

[frankster]

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Are you saying that you've actually been to "Sheol" or "Hell" to verify it?

Hell Is a state of Mind

 

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If so, please tell what happened.....the experience and circumstances.

Growing up with an alcoholic and the pressure and stress of life

 

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I actually study and collect Near Death and other Spiritual Experiences.

I study Near NDE.....started with Dr Weis(many lives) and ended with the Omega Project(Ring)

[Pioneer1]

frankster
 

Growing up with an alcoholic and the pressure and stress of life
 

Sorry to hear that.
However many would argue that THAT was absolutely not hell.
 

1. The stress and abuse wasn't constant....you had breaks in it whether it was going to school, sleeping, etc...
 

2. You eventually grew up and OUT of that situation, you didn't spend hundreds or thousands of years in that situation with no hope of leaving.

 

 

I study Near NDE.....started with Dr Weis(many lives) and ended with the Omega Project(Ring)

I started with actually LEAVING my body, and began researching Spirituality in it's various forms since.
Including Weis, Newton, Ring, Moody, Ross, etc....

 

[frankster]

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster
 

Growing up with an alcoholic and the pressure and stress of life
 

Sorry to hear that.
However many would argue that THAT was absolutely not hell.
 

1. The stress and abuse wasn't constant....you had breaks in it whether it was going to school, sleeping, etc...
 

2. You eventually grew up and OUT of that situation, you didn't spend hundreds or thousands of years in that situation with no hope of leaving.

This life is Hell or heaven.....

According to the Ancients we/some of us have been returning here to earth for thousands if not millions of years.

In a sense some of us may indeed be trapped here.....in a never ending cycle

 

 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

 

I study Near NDE.....started with Dr Weis(many lives) and ended with the Omega Project(Ring)

I started with actually LEAVING my body, and began researching Spirituality in it's various forms since.
Including Weis, Newton, Ring, Moody, Ross, etc....

How did you come to leave your body?

where you conscious the entire time ....that sounds like a great story tell me more?

Did more than 10% of those testimonials by NDE'Rs say they experience a hell? or had a hellish time?

[Pioneer1]

frankster

According to the Ancients we/some of us have been returning here to earth for thousands if not millions of years.
 

...and not just Earth.



 

How did you come to leave your body?

where you conscious the entire time ....that sounds like a great story tell me more?
 

I'll tell more, at a later date....lol.



 

Did more than 10% of those testimonials by NDE'Rs say they experience a hell? or had a hellish time?
 

In my research, no.
Far less than 10% report "hellish" experiences.

 

First of all "hell" is generally a concept of Abrahamic religions.
Like you mentioned earlier about Gehenna which some say is based on a historic pit outside of ancient Jerusalem where garbage and dead carcasses were dumped and burned as waste.

Most Indigenous religions don't teach of a hot burning eternal hell.
However they do...like what some NDEer's experience...speak of certain "punishments" that await people on the other side of death for certain things they've done in THIS life.

 

Based on my studies, of those who have had negative experiences....usually the worst thing they go through are certain aspects of their Life Review where they are forced to experience what they did to others and in many cases the impact it had.
 

[frankster]

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster
According to the Ancients we/some of us have been returning here to earth for thousands if not millions of years.
 

...and not just Earth.

True

 

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

How did you come to leave your body?

where you conscious the entire time ....that sounds like a great story tell me more?
 

I'll tell more, at a later date....lol.

Of course at your convenience....

 

 

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Did more than 10% of those testimonials by NDE'Rs say they experience a hell? or had a hellish time?
 

In my research, no.
Far less than 10% report "hellish" experiences.

True

 

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

First of all "hell" is generally a concept of Abrahamic religions.
Like you mentioned earlier about Gehenna which some say is based on a historic pit outside of ancient Jerusalem where garbage and dead carcasses were dumped and burned as waste.

Purification

 

 

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Most Indigenous religions don't teach of a hot burning eternal hell.
However they do...like what some NDEer's experience...speak of certain "punishments" that await people on the other side of death for certain things they've done in THIS life.

Not punishment....correction to achieve balance and understanding

 

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Based on my studies, of those who have had negative experiences....usually the worst thing they go through are certain aspects of their Life Review where they are forced to experience what they did to others and in many cases the impact it had.

True..so as to learn altruism - basically that we all the same just experience life from different perspective