Black youth who are into Hiphop need to start reclaiming our titles.

...tired of seeing Whites, Arabs, and Latinos running around calling themselves "DJ" this and that while Black artists have literally belittled themselves with names like "Young" this and "Lil" that and "Baby" so-n-so.

 

FBA/ADOS should know the history of Hip-Hop. The reality is that we aren't doing a great job of codifying and gatekeeping and teaching our history.

 

Especially where money is involved, folks are looking to cash in and live large, history be d8mnd.😎

But that's what I mean.....
That game should be so CODIFIED that a person should have to earn that title from a Black organization.

Like having a Black Belt in a martial art.
You can't just walk around claiming it, but you have to go through a process to EARN it because Asians have codified it.

Hiphop and other inventions of FBA culture should be the same way.

Those candied yams ain't right unless WE say they were cooked right, lol.

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But that's what I mean.....
That game should be so CODIFIED that a person should have to earn that title from a Black organization.

 

Hiphop and other inventions of FBA culture should be the same way.

Unfortunately, FBA/ADOS doesn't hold the patent or trademark on anything. As soon as the price is right, the sh8t gets sold or watered down or stepped on like dope. 🤣😎

I don't understand you guys.  Art is art.  Anyone can create anything in any genre.  That does not mean it will be any good or that we should buy it. But restricting the creation of a genre of art to someone based upon phenotype make no sense and diminished the art form.

 

I recognize white folks enjoy structural benefits, supporting their art, Black folks don't (one reason I run this site), but people should be free to create art unencumbered by racial restrictions.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

I recognize white folks enjoy structural benefits, supporting their art, Black folks don't...

Therein lies the problem.

 

Black folks can't waltz into Nashville and start making Country music.

 

Look at what they're doing after Beyonce won a Grammy for Cowboy Carter. They've changed the rules of the game. Gangsta gatekeeping.😎

What have they done? They have not stopped Beyoncé or Lil Nas X from making country music or even and profiting handsomely from it.

 

I’m not up on the rule changes that you are referencing presumably it has to do with the Grammy awards. But we have to NAACP image awards; don’t they have a category for country music? If not, they can create one.

 

Again, you are free to make and enjoy any kind of music you like and that is the way it  should be. 

ProfD

 

 

Unfortunately, FBA/ADOS doesn't hold the patent or trademark on anything. As soon as the price is right, the sh8t gets sold or watered down or stepped on like dope. 

 

So the problem isn't protection, it's DISLOYALTY.

Black folks know how to protect their property (including intellectual property) when they really want to.

Some Black folks won't even let you claim a CITY or NEIGHBORHOOD if you aren't from there, lol.

But when you have so many willing to literally SELL out, loyalty gets bought out too.

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

 

I don't understand you guys.  Art is art.  Anyone can create anything in any genre. 

 

Ever heard of INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY?

You can "enjoy" it all you want, as long as you don't try to CLAIM it or claim to be the ORIGINATOR of it.
Because that's intellectual theft.

 

The genius BEHIND the art....whether it's music, movies, or clothing design...should be recognized and get their due credit.

 

 

 

 

 That does not mean it will be any good or that we should buy it. But restricting the creation of a genre of art to someone based upon phenotype make no sense and diminished the art form.

 

If a particular phenotype or culture is the one creating it, then perhaps it should.

Should a Chinese man who brings tacos to China get the credit of inventing Tacos or wear the title "Taco King"???

 
The problem is.....

You see the same pattern play itself out over and over again.

Black people invent something and first White people ridicule it and diss it and dismiss it....UNITL they see that OTHER races/nationalities like it and are drawn to it, including other White people.
....and especially White females.

 

Then all of a sudden those same White people who ridiculed it and tried to dismiss it now claim to EMBRACE it because they see a way to make money off of it AND they don't want the charisma of it pulling other groups and even Whites towards Black Americans.

 

Our charisma is ENDEARING.
So they try to limit access to it.
 

Pioneer, I’m not talking about claiming the creation of an art form. I’m talking about creating within the form. I think anyone should be able to create any art they choose.
 

If a Chinese man wants to make tacos great. If that same Chinese man somehow creates a terrific taco perhaps by infusing his culture into the product even better.

 

This is how our forms evolve and develop.

 

The profit motive generally tends to corrupt things, but we have seen that across all forms of art not just the forms that Black people pioneered.

 

Intellectual property for a specific piece of art is very different than claiming ownership of an entire art form. That is like saying you own the air (though one day Europeans will probably figure out a way to do that too). You can’t tell a Chinese woman not to write blues music any more than you can tell a white boy he can’t perform rap music.  Does that make sense?

 

 

Black folks are cultural whores getting pimped.

@TroyI agree, with your broad perspective. The years have mellowed you into a "Renaissiance Man".

Black folks go overboard thinking everything originated with them. Yet, they always want a black version of traditionally white images. e.g. a black James Bond. 

When did "DJ" become  become an exclusively black title?It is a term that dates back to the 1950s and was originally spelled DeeJay, short for Disc Jockey which was a term coined by white guys spinning the latest hit records on all the major radio net works. 

"Ars gratia artis"  translates into "art for art's sake". The aesthetic community should always strive to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

Not to mention that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

After their abandoment of Blues and Jazz music genres, black folks  need to stop bitchin' about their culture being co-opted. Especially since they want to be judged as individuals, and think America is also their country.

 

You two are simply disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable....lol.

Everybody knows that Black people are the originators and innovators of most music genres and most forms of entertainment PERIOD, in the United States.
Even most White folks recognize this.

If it were high noon and I said the sky was blue.....yall would wait until night time just to disagree with me.🤣

9 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

The years have mellowed you into a "Renaissiance Man".

 

Thank you. 

 

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You two are simply disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable....lol.

 

I'm not doing that. Is it so hard to believe that people would disagree with you based upon your statements?

Here again you throw up a strawman by writing "...that Black people are the originators and innovators of most music genres..." That was not a point I was addressing you kicked off this conversation off by writing, "Black youth who are into Hiphop need to start reclaiming our titles....tired of seeing Whites, Arabs, and Latinos running around calling themselves "DJ" this and that."  @aka Contrarian pointed out the term Dee-Jay predated hip-hop by a generation. I wrote anyone one is free, or should be free, to create any form of art that choose -- including our Latino brothers, who are some of the most skilled hip-hop DJs and MCs.

... and Everybody also knows that Pioneer never met an issue he didn't think he was the final authority on. 😴

Apparently its OK for him to cite black music as being at the root  of white American music but a no-no to acknowledge that the terms  "MC"(Master of Ceremonies) and "DJ" (Disc Jockey) have their origin in America's white culture.

Disagreeing with him is easy because he's so befuddled and biased.  

Troy

 

Is it so hard to believe that people would disagree with you based upon your statements?
 

If those people are other AfroAmericans over 30 years of ag....yes?
Because they've been around enough and seen enough to KNOW that I'm right and wouldn't put up an argument.

What Black person over 30 hasn't already recognized that we are the innovators, originators, and give style and flavor to the United States?????

Why is that even an argument among OUR particular demographic???

...unless your VERY NAME is "Contrarian".

Cynique
 

 "MC"(Master of Ceremonies) and "DJ" (Disc Jockey) have their origin in America's white culture.
 

They didn't give themselves those TITLES until we started doing it in Hiphop.

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

...What Black person over 30 hasn't already recognized that we are the innovators, originators, and give style and flavor to the United States?????

Why is that even an argument among OUR particular demographic???

...unless your VERY NAME is "Contrarian".

 

@Pioneer1One thing Whites did originate is "racial" superiority, and a ego-centric self-appointed arbitraror like you has co-opted that concept, employing half-truths and out-right lies to assert that  black people are solely responsible for America's flavor, etc.

Blacks with your mind-set are the reason your species is stuck on stupid,  marching in place, taking 1 step forward and 2 steps backward. You put forth false premises, setting yourself up to reach false conclusions and then stand around wondering why you arent getting anywhere. It's time to start dealing with the whole TRUTH. 

White mutants  are ruling this world and this country  for a reason. This is not to say that Black folks are inferior but it is to say they that they overestimate their 

impact as it applies to the BIG PICTURE. Something you can't deal with because you have tunnel vision and are, as I previously observed, "biased and befuddled". This has less to do with my being contrary than with you being  deluded.

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Cynique
 

 "MC"(Master of Ceremonies) and "DJ" (Disc Jockey) have their origin in America's white culture.
 

They didn't give themselves those TITLES until we started doing it in Hiphop.

They DID give themselves those titles when the occasion called for it - long before Hip-Hop came on the scene! Black folks borrowed the titles because they couldn't come up with creative ones of their own.  But a myopic black cheerleader like you can't  perceive  that. 

There are "flavors" of this multi-faceted  country about which you appear totally ignorant.

America, however, can only blame itself for the way it has fucked up the black psyche. 

Cynique

The only one "befuddled" is you.......MUTHA FUDDLE.

If White people gave themselves the titles "DJ This" and "MC That", then produce a document proving this.
I'm not talking about them acting in the capacity OF a DJ or MC, but incorporating the actual TITLE in their names.


 

On 7/19/2025 at 11:59 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Black youth who are into Hiphop need to start reclaiming our titles.

...tired of seeing Whites, Arabs, and Latinos running around calling themselves "DJ" this and that...

 

Of course I should've known that a BEFUDDLED  dim wit like you  didn't know what he was talkin about  when he whined about the "Whites, Arabs, and Latinos" walking around calling themselves DJs." 

And it's not as if all Rap and R&B fall under the HipHop umbrella which is just some out dated term left over from the '90s. 

11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

we are the innovators, originators, and give style and flavor to the United States

Again, no one is arguing against this adding more straw men doesn’t improve your argument.

 

 

4 hours ago, Troy said:

Again, no one is arguing against this

Cynique is.

 

 

On 7/22/2025 at 1:03 AM, aka Contrarian said:

Black folks go overboard thinking everything originated with them

 

12 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

Black folks borrowed the titles because they couldn't come up with creative ones of their own.

Those are HER words, not my "strawman" attributing them to her.

 

@Pioneer1 i’m not arguing for  @aka Contrarian she is perfectly capable of doing that herself however, your statement and the ones you quoted from her are not mutually exclusive they can all be true.

 

My argument with you is that you believe so-called Black people should own hip-hop and prevent other people from creating in the form. I disagree with that.

12 hours ago, Troy said:

 

 

My argument with you is that you believe so-called Black people should own hip-hop and prevent other people from creating in the form. I disagree with that.

Talk about a "straw man".......lol.

When have I said Whites couldn't participate and make music in Hiphop???
They can absolutely participate.

Just don't CLAIM it as their own or go around wearing titles almost exclusively among themselves without being sanctioned by us to wear them.

On 7/21/2025 at 12:53 PM, Troy said:

That is like saying you own the air (though one day Europeans will probably figure out a way to do that too)

They are called air rights. some time ago in New York City. An owner sold the air over his building and transferred it to a different building. Since the second building had a height restriction

Black folks didn't invent the terms DJ or MC but we certaiinly made it a universal thing with a multibillion Hip-Hop industry that we started.😎

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

They can absolutely participate.

Just don't CLAIM it as their own or go around wearing titles almost exclusively among themselves without being sanctioned by us to wear them

This is a contradiction.
 

So you want Black people to be in charge bestowing the title of D.j. and MC, to decide who can call themselves an MC or D.j.? am I understanding you correctly?

Troy

This is a contradiction.
 

A contradiction is asserting two directly OPPOSING positions.

What two positions have I asserted that directly oppose eachother?

Back in the day when Malcolm X was asked how he felt about White people supporting his organization he said that they could support it financially and in other ways -but they can't join it.
There can be no Black/White unity until there's some Black unity first.

That wasn't a contradiction, it was a specifically detailed condition of how they could support him and his cause.
Things don't necessarily have to be ALL or NOTHING; there are levels and degrees.

 

So you want Black people to be in charge bestowing the title of D.j. and MC, to decide who can call themselves an MC or D.j.? am I understanding you correctly?
 

Yes.
Black leaders in the Hiphop community.

I'm not sure how likely this would be, but it's something I'd like to see.

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black leaders in the Hiphop community.

I'm not sure how likely this would be, but it's something I'd like to see.

It's not codified but non-Black folks do have to *prove* themselves within the Hip-Hop community in order to be accepted at the highest levels.😎

Sounds to me like Hip Hop is very much like the Country Music community which Pioneer and ProfD are criticizing. Except that the Country Music community has not borrowed titles from the black vernacular the way HipHop has adopted terms from the white culture.

Should, by chance, a person from a different ethnicity secure the official DJ/MC  designation, what does that entitle them to?

Does anyone know if MC Hammer's title is documented?

I assume you HipHop purists would approve if a black person who ventures into the classical music or ballet  field is subjected to some type of validation before they can call themself a Ballerina or a Maestro. 

Could be that these are unspoken rules, unlike the superfluous HipHop bullshit.

 

Great Art for public enjoyment  should not discriminate on the basis of anything but talent. 

 

24 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

I assume you HipHop purists would approve if a black person who ventures into the classical music or ballet  field is subjected to some type of validation before they can call themself a Ballerina or a Maestro. 

Check the number of Black folks conducting symphony orchestras. There's not many if any. Same goes for occupying 1st, 2nd or 3rd chair.

 

The blessing for Black music was classically trained musicians who couldn't get symphony work found plenty of it arranging and playing on songs from the 1960s through early 1980s. 

 

24 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

Great Art for public enjoyment  should not discriminate on the basis of anything but talent. 

Agreed. Unfortunately, there are still gatekeepers for other genres of music. 

 

Black folks should be able to commodify our music and credentialize those who want to exploit it.😎

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blah, blah, blah, yada, yada,yada.

On 7/29/2025 at 4:48 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Black leaders in the Hiphop community.

I'm not sure how likely this would be, but it's something I'd like to see.

First of all, you can’t decide who is black and who is it consistently?
 

Second of all, it will never happen nor should it.

 

12 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

Great Art for public enjoyment  should not discriminate on the basis of anything but talent

Period.

 

11 hours ago, ProfD said:

Check the number of Black folks conducting symphony orchestras. There's not many if any. Same goes for occupying 1st, 2nd or 3rd chair.

Of course there are, but I too doubt there after very many. Sure racism created road blocks in the past but as you might imagine more Black people and best time and energy wrapping and they do conducting a Symphony Orchestra.

 

Great art predicated on talent for public consumption is a noble goal.

 

There's no shortage of public playhouses all over the country featuring plays, symphonies and other arts related events.

 

However, the music business is a completely different ballgame.

 

There are  gatekeepers who decide which artists and musicians succeed. It's not based on their talent or merit. Comes down to how much money they can generate for the company.

 

Berry Gordy understood the game when he started Motown records. He enjoyed great success with it.

 

Unfortunately, the lack of an entrepreneurial mindset and wealth building prevented  more Black folks from replicating Motown several times over and being able to own and control our intellectual property which art becomes as a commodity. 

 

Nashville is the headquarters for Country music. The city was built on it.

 

What do Black folks have within the music industry that bears any similarity to Nashville?😎

On 7/29/2025 at 7:23 PM, aka Contrarian said:

Sounds to me like Hip Hop is very much like the Country Music community which Pioneer and ProfD are criticizing. Except that the Country Music community has not borrowed titles from the black vernacular the way HipHop has adopted terms from the white culture.

Should, by chance, a person from a different ethnicity secure the official DJ/MC  designation, what does that entitle them to?

Does anyone know if MC Hammer's title is documented?

I assume you HipHop purists would approve if a black person who ventures into the classical music or ballet  field is subjected to some type of validation before they can call themself a Ballerina or a Maestro. 

Could be that these are unspoken rules, unlike the superfluous HipHop bullshit.

 

Great Art for public enjoyment  should not discriminate on the basis of anything but talent. 

 

 

I asked you earlier, if White people gave themselves the titles "DJ This" and "MC That", then produce a document proving this.

So.....
Is the proof that I asked you for somewhere in this reply?????




ProfD

The interesting thing about Country Music is.......
Seems to me that more people listen to it up North than the White folks down South.
When I lived in the South, most of the White folks listened to Rap and RnB....lol.
 

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The interesting thing about Country Music is.......

Seems to me that more people listen to it up North than the White folks down South.
When I lived in the South, most of the White folks listened to Rap and RnB....lol.

Country music is definitely most popular in all of the red states.😁😎

On 8/3/2025 at 11:08 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I asked you earlier, if White people gave themselves the titles "DJ This" and "MC That", then produce a document proving this.

So.....
Is the proof that I asked you for somewhere in this reply?
 

 

The  burden of proof is not on me. YOU prove that  these ethnic outsiders you accuse of highjackin hip hop titles are not documented  since you think you're such a well informed expert on this subject when you aint nothin but  biased and befuddled. You offer no specifics; just your usual unqualified pretentions of being in charge of what constitutes "blackness". Put up or shut up. I dont give a damn if hip hop is being infringed on because it's not my musical community. My preferences in black music are jazz and old school R&B. If this offends you, then tough shit! I do not recognize you as being a mover or skaker when it comes to America's non white population. You are not somebody to whom I have  to produce documents to contradict your random claims.

On 8/4/2025 at 3:00 PM, aka Contrarian said:

The  burden of proof is not on me. YOU prove that  these ethnic outsiders you accuse of highjackin hip hop titles are not documented  since you think you're such a well informed expert on this subject when you aint nothin but  biased and befuddled. You offer no specifics; just your usual unqualified pretentions of being in charge of what constitutes "blackness". Put up or shut up. I dont give a damn if hip hop is being infringed on because it's not my musical community. My preferences in black music are jazz and old school R&B. If this offends you, then tough shit! I do not recognize you as being a mover or skaker when it comes to America's non white population. You are not somebody to whom I have  to produce documents to contradict your random claims.

 

 

We're all waiting for those White entertainers who titled themselves "DJ" this and "MC" that.

 

 

On 8/9/2025 at 6:23 AM, Pioneer1 said:

We're all waiting for those White entertainers who titled themselves "DJ" this and "MC" that.

 

 

Speak for yourself. I'm not waiting for any such thing. 'Makes me no difference.

39 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

Speak for yourself. I'm not waiting for any such thing. 'Makes me no difference.

Ofcourse you're not waiting, because you know they don't exist....lol.

14 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Ofcourse you're not waiting, because you know they don't exist....lol.

Then dispense with your presumptuous statements about everybody waiting. Why are you having such a difficult time processing the idea that I don't care whether or not people of other ethnicities are certified as hiphop MCs and DJs???

Because in your usual attempt to control the narrative, you being biased and befuddled thwarts your effort. 

19 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

 Why are you having such a difficult time processing the idea that I don't care whether or not people of other ethnicities are certified as hiphop MCs and DJs???

 

Because you dragged your yellow ass up into MY thread and decided to drop your (valued at below 1 cent) comment on it....lol.
Sure did go to a lot of trouble to log on and go back and forth over something you don't care about.

You said you weren't feeling well.
Stop arguing with me when you know I'm right just for the sake of being contrary...lol.
Take it easy and enjoy yourself on this Sunday morning.
 

I wasn't aware that only certain people could comment on the controversial subjects you pontificate on  in your marathon posts since you've never had a problem barging in on my or anybody elses' posts. 

I leave you with what is the hardest thing in the world for you to do, which is admit you are wrong. Particularly in this case.

I disagree with your take on this silly assed subject and your opinion is no more valid than mine. Except in the narrow confines of your little ego-centric world.

Get over yourself. 

Cynique

 

1 hour ago, aka Contrarian said:

Except in the narrow confines of your little ego-centric world.

Call it what you like, but "little" it's not....lol.