is the USA in the way of a better humanity?

[richardmurray]

Circa half of the populace in the usa wants to dominate the world using military might gardless of the violence. Circa half of the populace in the usa wants the usa to be the center of a dysfunctional global order that every human is shackled to gardless the fiscal poverty for most humans. Circa nearest one hundred percent of the populace in the usa wants the usa live along time after its two hundred and fiftieth birthday but nearest zero percent of the populace in the usa want to lead it in uncomfortable ways to live along time. 

Is the USA in the way of a better humanity? Absent the USA would the militaristic impotency of all other governments or racial balance of all other populaces lead to the greatest peace in humanity? 

 

https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/657-economic-corner-34-02202026/

 

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Is the USA in the way of a better humanity? Absent the USA would the militaristic impotency of all other governments or racial balance of all other populaces lead to the greatest peace in humanity? 

No.

 

IMO, human greed is the biggest impediment to greater peace in humanity. 

 

The general population of the world has to decide if/when they no longer want to enable a handful of greedy people to empower & enrich themselves.

 

People have to be willing to give up the  comfortability they have taken up in a less peaceful human existence in order to achieve a greater level of peace.

[Pioneer1]

.......lol @ "gardless"

In answer to the question in the title: No

Infact, I truly believe that America is and will continue to IMPROVE and PROGRESS humanity.

I'm not trying to be funny or facetious either, I sincerely mean that.

The United States is the main reason racism and sexism and even slavery itself is no longer OPENLY tolerated in most societies.

Before the existence of the United States.....racism, sexism, and slavery was not only rampant around the planet but brazen and openly practiced as a normal way of life for many if not most.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

13 hours ago, ProfD said:

No.

 

IMO, human greed is the biggest impediment to greater peace in humanity. 

 

The general population of the world has to decide if/when they no longer want to enable a handful of greedy people to empower & enrich themselves.

 

People have to be willing to give up the  comfortability they have taken up in a less peaceful human existence in order to achieve a greater level of peace.

even enough, only one question I have, when you say

"The general population of the world has to decide if/when" the financially common section of humanity isn't one peoples, to first make a collective choice a group of peoples must be an organized collective, in some fashion. So first the masses in humanity have to find a way to be a group that can make a collective decision right?

Cause as I comprehend your words, it seems like said masses can make this decision today or tomorrow as they are, and I don't see that as true.

 

@Pioneer1

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

In answer to the question in the title: No

Infact, I truly believe that America is and will continue to IMPROVE and PROGRESS humanity.

I'm not trying to be funny or facetious either, I sincerely mean that.

The United States is the main reason racism and sexism and even slavery itself is no longer OPENLY tolerated in most societies.

Before the existence of the United States.....racism, sexism, and slavery was not only rampant around the planet but brazen and openly practiced as a normal way of life for many if not most.

well... two things, 1) humanity progresses itself to whatever end. 2) all governments , no matter what movies say, have positive or negative results. all governments. and that includes the usa, but that also includes the peoples republic of china or russia or south africa or haiti or other. 

 

you said " United States is the main reason racism and sexism and even slavery itself is no longer OPENLY tolerated in most societies." I don't think that is the truth. in my travels I find many negative biases or openly expressed. I argue many negative biases are accepted or embraced, you suggest negative biases are tolerated, which suggest people don't want them. that isn't what I have found. 

 

I think what the usa has done positively isn't in the common communities in humanity. I argue, modern humanity is rife with various biases based on a persons gender/phenotype or appearance / fiscal class leading to enslavements. I think many of these negative biases are openly practiced. Last year was when the usa finally disallowed underage marriage at the federal level. I did a post about it, but I couldn't find it to link. 

What the usa has done positively is in governments themselves. In modernity most governments legal codes suggest most negative biases, as you correctly stated, are illegal. Most governments legal codes don't permit the negative biases the peoples under those codes do everyday. But the enforcement to such codes is absent. In this way, the usa breaks even. This goes back to Jim crow usa [ 1846 to 1980] the reality is , with black tulsa or rosewood as the most known highlighted examples, the usa legal code made all the terrible actions by whites to blacks illegal, but the usa leading by example shows that legal codes, don't give the law power. Again, for all the court cases black people did in 1865 to 1980 based on white terror. What percentage of white terrorist actions to blacks went to court? I argue, less than 1%.

 

the rule of law makes the law the king, but the law is the most impotent king. The law can't stop any illegal act. the law can't recover damages from illegal acts. the law can't change the heritages or cultures of any peoples that have illegal aspects. The USA has led a governmental legal code modulation movement where south africa has the most unbiased legal system in humanity, even though white south africans are as abusive as ever. China though people keep calling it a dictatorship, which is totally false, has actually modified and adjusted their constitution more than any other government of a powerful country, power defined as nuclear militaristic capability of a global reach. But this doesn't mean the ugyars are safe. The usa still has black towns throughout the former confederate states, lviing near toxic wastes the states put next to them, denied water the white towns next to them horde so... the law is nothing, the law is weak, the law doesn't make anything better. 

BUT, the law does allow the abused who have the rare resources/levels of money to utilize legal systems to challenge the criminal actions from abusers which are illegal. And that is positive. 

Negative biases are still mostly embraced by humans, whether legal or not, and no government has enforced their legal code to delete or diminish or cause to delay actions reflecting a negative bias or abuse or criminal act that said laws deem illegal. 

BUT, most legal codes today, do have 

[Pioneer1]

richarmurray

 

Laws can't stop an illegal act directly, but it can INDIRECTLY by:

1. Establishing law enforcement officers who CAN directly stop illegal activity
2. Discourage illegal activity through deterrence
3. Change the prevailing attitudes of the current and especially succeeding generations by equating that which is illegal to being ethically and eventually morally "bad"

 

One of the reasons many of the laws around the world don't change things is because they aren't ENFORCED.

Ofcourse slavery will continue in a culture where it's illegal only on paper but not ENFORCED.
Ofcourse human trafficking will continue in a culture where it's illegal only on paper but not ENFORCED

Laws can definitely change the prevailing attitude and even morals and norms of a society when adequately ENFORCED.

 

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

even enough, only one question I have, when you say

"The general population of the world has to decide if/when" the financially common section of humanity isn't one peoples, to first make a collective choice a group of peoples must be an organized collective, in some fashion.

Definitely requires organization among tribes. 

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

So first the masses in humanity have to find a way to be a group that can make a collective decision right?

Correct. Tribes must decide what's most peaceful for them & build strategic alliances with other like-minded groups. 

 

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Cause as I comprehend your words, it seems like said masses can make this decision today or tomorrow as they are, and I don't see that as true.

Right.  Those decisions won't be made today or tomorrow.

 

Mainly because people are comfortable as individuals & tribes.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Laws can't stop an illegal act directly, but it can INDIRECTLY by:

1. Establishing law enforcement officers who CAN directly stop illegal activity
2. Discourage illegal activity through deterrence
3. Change the prevailing attitudes of the current and especially succeeding generations by equating that which is illegal to being ethically and eventually morally "bad"

 

One of the reasons many of the laws around the world don't change things is because they aren't ENFORCED.

Ofcourse slavery will continue in a culture where it's illegal only on paper but not ENFORCED.
Ofcourse human trafficking will continue in a culture where it's illegal only on paper but not ENFORCED

Laws can definitely change the prevailing attitude and even morals and norms of a society when adequately ENFORCED.

Your wrong , but what is important is that many black people have thought like you from the founding of the usa and many black people have thought like me in opposition to you and yours, since the usa was founded. I don't see how these viewpoints have a bridge and i argue this is the most important issue in the black populace in the usa, because more than anything else, the black experience in the usa is one of being terorrized abused, whether legally or illegally by whites. So, how black people in the usa, view the law is essential to how we see the usa, non blacks, or ourselves. 

 

 

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Correct. Tribes must decide what's most peaceful for them & build strategic alliances with other like-minded groups. 

 

what if their aren't so many like minded groups? 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Mainly because people are comfortable as individuals & tribes.

you think its comfort...  i know a number of blacks who have said that... I don't think its comfort. 

I think it is honesty. I always tell the children I tutor, words are the least proving actions. In black history month so many black people we refer to have beautiful speeches, but little in the way of non verbal actions to prove anything. I think black people and I will argue, most people, at some point get tired of being told to try again for trying for agains sake. Some will argue people should act with a faith but I have always thought that is silly. faith isn't enough. results profd, you got to show results to the people. People who want to do things have to show results to themselves. 

[ProfD]

6 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

what if their aren't so many like minded groups? 

There aren't many like-minded groups &/or they're too disconnected.

 

For example, the smartest among poor people could organize to fight for more opportunities & resources.

 

Yet, poor people keep voting against their own interests & consuming just enough to survive. They enable the rich & powerful. They're comfortable in their station.

 

6 hours ago, richardmurray said:

you think its comfort...  i know a number of blacks who have said that... I don't think its comfort. 

What other reason(s) keep people from taking action to improve rheir position in the grand scheme of life?

 

6 hours ago, richardmurray said:

I think it is honesty. I always tell the children I tutor, words are the least proving actions.

Correct. Actions speak louder than words.

 

6 hours ago, richardmurray said:

In black history month so many black people we refer to have beautiful speeches, but little in the way of non verbal actions to prove anything.

The speeches & marches organized & conducted by FBA/AfroAmerican leaders were effective in getting Civil Rights legislation passed.

 

By extension, those actions by FBA/AfroAmericans made it even more possible for Black immigrants to get a foothold into the USA.

 

White folks use other Black & non-white groups of people in their maintenance of the system of white supremacy. 

 

 

6 hours ago, richardmurray said:

I think black people and I will argue, most people, at some point get tired of being told to try again for trying for agains sake. Some will argue people should act with a faith but I have always thought that is silly. faith isn't enough.

The aforementioned FBA/AfroAmericans put in work over a half-century ago that made it possible for other Black folks & non-whites to have better opportunities & access to resources under the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

 

6 hours ago, richardmurray said:

results profd, you got to show results to the people. People who want to do things have to show results to themselves. 

As I've mentioned above, the groundwork has already been laid for Black folks to have more access to opportunities & resources.

 

Unfortunately, for a half-century & counting, many Black folks have chosen to rest on their laurels under the system of racism white supremacy.

 

Actions do speak louder than words. Taking up a seat of comfort under the system of racism white supremacy is the action many Black folks have chosen. Same goes for poor people under the status quo.

[Pioneer1]

I think yall may be taking this "tribes" business a little too far....lol.

 

 

 

richardmurray
 

but what is important is that many black people have thought like you from the founding of the usa
 

That's because there's always been INTELLIGENT Black people, from the founding of the USA...lol.


 

and many black people have thought like me in opposition to you and yours, since the usa was founded.
 

Well, that's because there's also been Black people who were NOT so......well....never mind....lol.

the black experience in the usa is one of being terorrized abused, whether legally or illegally by whites.
 

Have YOU been personally?
Are you being, now?


 

So, how black people in the usa, view the law is essential to how we see the usa, non blacks, or ourselves. 

True.
Because I see myself and other AfroAmericans as valuable CITIZENS of this nation with power....limited ofcourse...to change the conditions IN this nation for our betterment and empowerment.

It takes unity, intelligence, and a DESIRE to do so; however it can definitely be done.
 

That would be more effective and beneficial to us than sitting packed together somewhere in a hot ass room cussing and crying about how hopeless and helpless you are and how you "don't belong" in the country you were born and raised in, lol.
 

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

For example, the smartest among poor people could organize to fight for more opportunities & resources.

 

Yet, poor people keep voting against their own interests & consuming just enough to survive. They enable the rich & powerful. They're comfortable in their station.

ahh the smartest are among the poor are the ones who get results, not organize. Organization has no value without results. Results isn't fighting for a thing, it getting a thing. 

And this goes back to the many black elected, the many black owned business, many of them will talk about fighting but when black people see their results they see, little or worse no results, and black people realize the scam. No one wants to spend their whole life a sucker, voting and carrying on and getting nothing. as James Baldwin near his death said, I paraphrase,  when will it happen? when I am fifty or a hundred? will it happen for me or my children or my grandchildren. 

Baldwin's point to me is excellent. His point is that government is results based, not faith based, and when results never come through all the methodologies present in government people wisely pull out of activity. 

It isn't that people vote against their interest, they pull out of the bureaucratic system. To rephrase, if you look at voting patterns in the usa, across all demographic lines, the biggest winner is none of the above. None of the above isn't against the peoples interest, none of the above is an indictment on the entire governmental system or its agents elected or not. Poor people not voting proves the system's functionality is negative or dead. It is up to people in the system to prove otherwise and if they can't... it's over. 

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

What other reason(s) keep people from taking action to improve rheir position in the grand scheme of life?

 

I answered honesty

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

Correct. Actions speak louder than words.

 

Exactly, but not just the voters actions speak louder.  the elected people or the appointed peoples actions speak louder than their words and in terms of results, the elected /appointed peoples actions are more important in getting results.  that is the great flaw in the white enslavers called the founding fathers schema that is the us constitution. The rule of law government isn't just the people and the law, the rule of the law government is the people+ the law+ the government officials. In the usa the government officials who are born from the people have succesfully made the people vote against the government itself , which is what a majority no vote means.  Now people like yourself find that unacceptable, but that is where your dysfunctional or where said white enslavers made a great error. In the preamble to the constitution, the incestual rapist, jefferson, correctly admitted that if the government of the usa is dysfunctional the people have the right to destroy it. He admitted, correctly, that a government can be too dysfunctional to warrant any thing but destruction, i argue the usa government is there in the eyes of most people in the usa. The voters are speaking loudly, they are finished with the usa. that is why they are mostly not voting. Government isn't faith it is results.

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

The speeches & marches organized & conducted by FBA/AfroAmerican leaders were effective in getting Civil Rights legislation passed.

 

By extension, those actions by FBA/AfroAmericans made it even more possible for Black immigrants to get a foothold into the USA.

 

White folks use other Black & non-white groups of people in their maintenance of the system of white supremacy. 

Well...if a black child asked me, which some have, about the black movements in the jim crow era, 1865 to 1980, and what they were effective in doing . I have said they failed. Because the goal of most black people wasn't civil rights legislation. Again, knowing history really knocks the bullshit off of many sayings. Civil rights legislation was an agreement  between a minority of black dosers aside a minority of whites. It was the NAACP victory. And I will say it again, the NAACP was always represented a minority within the black dos. the majority movements in black dos populace was not NAACP. The civil rights act was a compromise unwanted by a majority black dosers or a majority of non blacks that after the civil rights act was used by said minority of black dosers to suggest an improvement to the majority of black dosers , when it wasn't.  Again, the proof is the jim crow era. alice was enslaved 1963, so 1965 civil rights act doesn't address her situation. And as the Kern Commission , sanctioned by lyndon b johnson, all members of it white except for one or two people. flat out stated, the usa needed a complete overhaul. Lyndon B Johnson was angry at the kerner commission, but , and I must admit it is hilarious that nearly everyone in the kerner commission was white and they didn't come up with "gone with the wind" or "birth of a nation" they came up with the usa needs a complete overhaul. The kerner commission made in the 1960s literally refutes the position you and many other people, black or white, give claim to the civil rights acts.  and I think most people, though tthey don't know or have heard of the kerner commisison, concur to the kerner commission completely, and think the position by you and those like you to the civil rights movement or your assessment of the time after is hogwash. 

Kerner commission

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2685&type=status  ;; or https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/197-economic-corner-15-02172025/

 

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

The aforementioned FBA/AfroAmericans put in work over a half-century ago that made it possible for other Black folks & non-whites to have better opportunities & access to resources under the system of racism white supremacy. 

No, not over a half century ago, near two hundred and fifty years ago. It was the blacks who fought for the usa at its infancy, who were again, a minority in the black dos populace. which you never say. But I get it. you are one of those minority blacks. Your not thinking of the majority of the black people in the same way, the black people like you and James Forten[  https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/592-the-american-revolution-pbs-documentary-episode-6/  ]  have always seen the usa in a way unreal to the majority of black people and then accuse the majority of black people of various negativies rather than admit your view doesn't serve the majority of black people.

Your correct, a group of black and whites worked together for this modernity but neither were a majority of blacks or whites and when you see the complete canvas of the usa you can see that both of said minorities did well for themselves and used their associative majorities to do it... which has led to a lack of results from the government of the usa to most, and no amount of faith can change that.

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

As I've mentioned above, the groundwork has already been laid for Black folks to have more access to opportunities & resources.

 

Unfortunately, for a half-century & counting, many Black folks have chosen to rest on their laurels under the system of racism white supremacy.

 

Actions do speak louder than words. Taking up a seat of comfort under the system of racism white supremacy is the action many Black folks have chosen. Same goes for poor people under the status quo.

I comprehend your position. I do. Your like James Forten who was a black person, a DOSer , who fought alongside a group of whites who to improve white lives while maintaining black peoples lives, in majority as enslaved. I get it. Forten became a wealthy businessman after the secession from the english empire. When I think of you and Pioneer I see James Forten. a black person who doesn't represent the situation of most black in the usa , as most black people in the usa were enslaved. Who doesn't represent most black peoples relationship to whites in the usa or the usa itself. Forten wished to engage to this usa even when it was only a declaration, but most black people wanted to be as far away from whites wherever they are, or kill whites a vendetta whites earned a hundred times over. I get your position. But it was never a majority position in the black dos populace. NEVER. So when James Forten, Frederick Douglass, web dubois when younger, mlk jr , barrack Obama , yourself, all talk, I realize, this is a heritage of your tribe. You know fully well the truth for a majority of black people but you don't care. you have made a choice and can only speak of support for that choice by condemning blacks who didn't choose that. I get it. 

And it explains why the tribe you are in, a minority of blacks DOSers who have always been engaged in the usa, has such alliance with Immigration aCt of 1965 blacks. Cause said blacks come to the usa with a similar mind. Thank you, I get it. 

 

@Pioneer1

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I think yall may be taking this "tribes" business a little too far....lol.

 

I argue black people have never been allowed to by white influence or minority black tribes agendas taken our tribes serious enough and it has cost majority of black peoples. 

You and Pioneer must see the history clearly. When the usa was founded ninety percent of black DOSers forebears were enslaved . Seven percent fought for against the creation of the usa or white people of usa or any of the usa including black people like James Forten. three percent of black folk fought for the creation of the usa. 

What does that mean ?

Today in modernity, 2026, decades after the jim crow era [ 1865 to 1980] over a century and a half since the end of the enslavement era [ 1492-1865] most black people in the usa, with a huge influx of modern black immigrants post 1965 immigration act. are like the three percent of black folk who fought for the creation of the usa. but what does this mean for the history of the tribes. 

This means said three percent which you/profd/james horten/frederick douglass/webdubois when younger/mlk jr/barrack obama + michelle obama represent a heritage in the Black populace as old as the USA itself, BUT also a tribe that worked against the majority of black people with the aid of whites till it became the majority. 

Now my tribe, led by people like Titus Cornelius, who lived at the same time of James Forten, was a minority as well, but the larger minority. My tribe would be the majority minority in the black dos populace till circa 1845. You and profd's  tribe became the largest minority starting in the jim crow era. My tribe was and is the most disliked by whites for obvious reasons, variants of my tribe made the successful quilombos/haiti. The best examples of black empowerment have always been made by my tribe. Your tribe has from the beginning only offered an integrated solution which has limits for black growth. 

But the biggest tribe was the black enslaved, circa ninety percent who had only one desire, ESCAPE. They didn't want to kill whites, like my tribe. But they didn't want to be in any union with whites like yours. My tribe always comprehended the largest tribes truth, your tribe has always denied their truth or at the least, in rhetoric opposed it dysfunctionally, as you and Profd's prose shows. The majority DOS tribe has an interest, a self interest, and that is away from the usa , away from whites. That has always been their truth. They don't want to be president, they dont' want to be governor, they dont' want to a ceo of a fortune 500 company, they don't want to be a law enforcer, they don't want any part of the usa or the whites of the usa. 

Don't you see Pioneer. How weakly Black people overall have treated this important issue, and to be blunt your tribe helped this problem the most. Because your tribe, has always , instead of comprehending what most blacks wants always has tried to do prosyletize/preach the black majority out of their truth. And this explains the immigration act. You know, the civil rights and voting right act serve the function of making federal law make racial[ any type of race: phenotypical/gender/religious] negative biases illagel, make negatively biased to any groups voting laws illegal. But what is the immigration act really? the immigration didn't serve the majority of whites or blacks in the usa. While it didn't serve the black majority tribe who wanted nothing to do with the usa or my tribe that wants war, or serve the majority of whites who want comfort they don't need to work for, it did serve you and profd's tribe of blacks and the minority white tribes of wealthy whites, For the wealthy whites it allowed for cheap labor for their profit. but for black integrationists , james forten to you and profd, it flooded the black populace with black immigrants who shared a similar philosophy to your tribe. I get it, well done. 

Your tribe which started at circa three percent has the majority in the Black populace: Black DOS tribes + Black Immigrant tribes in the usa today. The Black DOS majority tribe still doesn't believe in the usa and I argue never will cause they have never too but without the majority populace they will have a different path. I can see positive plus negative elements in their future. As for my tribe, we live on, we have always existed and always will. Vendetta is powerful. Blood feuds are powerful. My tribe is small but patient. My tribe will get our chance again, and I can only hope someone like me is at the helm, cause if someone like me is at the helm, our successes will be thorough. 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well, that's because there's also been Black people who were NOT so......well....never mind....lol.

 

very funny

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Have YOU been personally?
Are you being, now?

to your first question, yes and most black people have throughout all humanity. 

to your second question, I answer with a situation that brings its issues to bare. If a white man rapes my wife and that is the only moment of white terror I have, I am not obliged to treat that moment as a one of. I am free to, yes, your correct. A black person is free to treat a life absent or with less white terror than the average in the past as a betterment or at the least as unwarranting an unmendable bridge with whites. that the point in your question. But you miss the important point,which your tribe always has, which is very selfish, is that no black person is forced or has to come to that conclusion. 

So to answer your second question, in my assessment of white terror, all levels from verbal harassment from white strangers to white people murdering my loving ones, the answer is yes. I think from your tribes assessment the answer is no. 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because I see myself and other AfroAmericans as valuable CITIZENS of this nation with power....limited ofcourse...to change the conditions IN this nation for our betterment and empowerment.

It takes unity, intelligence, and a DESIRE to do so; however it can definitely be done.
 

That would be more effective and beneficial to us than sitting packed together somewhere in a hot ass room cussing and crying about how hopeless and helpless you are and how you "don't belong" in the country you were born and raised in, lol.

yes, you and your tribe in the usa from james horton to now have always viewed the majority of black people in the usa through your tribe's perspective, not any other tribes perspective, which is your tribes forever dishonor in my view. While my tribe is a minority tribe as well, at least my tribe is honest. Your tribe has always been wicked tongued.  For all tribes know why the majority DOS tribe has never wanted anything to do with the usa or the white people in it. But your tribe would rather criminalize what white terror honestly created. 

The good news for your tribe is in 2026, you now have a bunch of black immigrants from outside the usa who have come freely to the usa for the purpose of being citizens, for the purpose of their betterment, and they don't even demand too much empowerment outside of individual rights. So, your tribe for the first time in two hundred and fifty years truly has the numerical advantage in the complete black populace. Your still a minority tribe among DOSers alone, but you now have the advantage with Black peoples altogether in the usa. Use it, focus on it. My advice is to forget about the other two tribes of DOSers you continually complain about. Cause one tribe of DOSers wants revenge on whites which can't work with any plan from your tribe of DOSers,  and the other tribe of DOSers will never trust whites enough to be involved in any plan from your tribe. 

So what are you and Profd going to do to now? forget other DOSers , like myself for example. We will never join you and you know why, even if you cant' accept it.  It is the truth. What you are willing to forgive, who you are willing to work with is not what Black DOSers from other tribes want to do or will do. But the good news is that, the black one percent/the black fiscally wealthy in the usa are 99% your tribe, which makes perfect sense as the usa is a white country and black people making money have to be involved with whites, which is what your tribe has always been willing to do, since James Forten.  And with the Black immigrants post immigration act 1965, your tribe have all the pieces to make a level of integration your tribe has always wanted in the usa. In the end I imagine the usa will be split into parts, which actually make historical sense as well. The logic/reason/thinking coming from a simple truth. Fiscal wealth can be very beautiful, harmonizing even, but some things a human can want can not be bought with money, or acquired through money, or can not come from a peaceful life, or be satisfied with a peaceful life. Thus the usa your tribe has always worked for of fiscal wealth in a peaceful land under the rule of law, can not satisfy what some humans may want. 

 

post script, there is no us. Black DOSers are not an us. The larger Black Americans, canada to argentina, are not an us. You and black people like you need to stop prosyletizing, it doesn't help. Most Black Americans,  share a heritage of being enslaved by whites in the american continent from canada to argentina. But we don't all share the same perspectives on who we are or what we want, and you and yours need to accept that finally. Stop your damn preaching/prosyletizing. 

[Pioneer1]

32 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

 

Now my tribe, led by people like Titus Cornelius, who lived at the same time of James Forten, was a minority as well, but the larger minority. My tribe would be the majority minority in the black dos populace till circa 1845. You and profd's  tribe became the largest minority starting in the jim crow era. My tribe was and is the most disliked by whites for obvious reasons, variants of my tribe made the successful quilombos/haiti. The best examples of black empowerment have always been made by my tribe. Your tribe has from the beginning only offered an integrated solution which has limits for black growth. 

But the biggest tribe was the black enslaved, circa ninety percent who had only one desire, ESCAPE. They didn't want to kill whites, like my tribe. But they didn't want to be in any union with whites like yours. My tribe always comprehended the largest tribes truth, your tribe has always denied their truth or at the least, in rhetoric opposed it dysfunctionally, as you and Profd's prose shows. The majority DOS tribe has an interest, a self interest, and that is away from the usa , away from whites. That has always been their truth. They don't want to be president, they dont' want to be governor, they dont' want to a ceo of a fortune 500 company, they don't want to be a law enforcer, they don't want any part of the usa or the whites of the usa. 

Don't you see Pioneer. How weakly Black people overall have treated this important issue, and to be blunt your tribe helped this problem the most. Because your tribe, has always , instead of comprehending what most blacks wants always has tried to do prosyletize/preach the black majority out of their truth. And this explains the immigration act. You know, the civil rights and voting right act serve the function of making federal law make racial[ any type of race: phenotypical/gender/religious] negative biases illagel, make negatively biased to any groups voting laws illegal. But what is the immigration act really? the immigration didn't serve the majority of whites or blacks in the usa. While it didn't serve the black majority tribe who wanted nothing to do with the usa or my tribe that wants war, or serve the majority of whites who want comfort they don't need to work for, it did serve you and profd's tribe of blacks and the minority white tribes of wealthy whites, For the wealthy whites it allowed for cheap labor for their profit. but for black integrationists , james forten to you and profd, it flooded the black populace with black immigrants who shared a similar philosophy to your tribe. I get it, well done. 

Your tribe which started at circa three percent has the majority in the Black populace: Black DOS tribes + Black Immigrant tribes in the usa today. The Black DOS majority tribe still doesn't believe in the usa and I argue never will cause they have never too but without the majority populace they will have a different path. I can see positive plus negative elements in their future. As for my tribe, we live on, we have always existed and always will. Vendetta is powerful. Blood feuds are powerful. My tribe is small but patient. My tribe will get our chance again, and I can only hope someone like me is at the helm, cause if someone like me is at the helm, our successes will be thorough. 

very funny

ng/prosyletizing. 

 

 

Looks to me like YOUR TRIBE needs YOUR OWN land.

Any plans to get it?

 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

Looks to me like YOUR TRIBE needs YOUR OWN land.

Any plans to get it?

always has, the garveyites/the quilombos/haiti/the black loyalist, all achieved getting a land, achieved not merely attempted. Even the exodusters did achieve... we know what happened to malcolm x's father so... Now holding a land well, some have achieved. I know who has kept the land they earned, even with white terror/power ever present,  and who has not, and why. 

So the question is not plans to get, plans to be apart of, plans to improve, or other. Haitii exists right now, as their constitution under the emperor states, they are called the blacks technically, not haitians. That is a nod to all black peoples around the world. Haiti is a geographic distinction. But in a constitution that black people of haiti had true involvement with, free from whites or blacks who want to be whites, or blacks who want to align with whites, earned through the blood of war. Haiti is the land for all Black Peoples. 

https://aalbc.com/tc/blogs/entry/472-haitian-constitution/

 

So when you say get it? it seems you don't comprehend the land is already earned. which... goes back to the problem with your tribe. the way you see the black populace is very usa centric and ... Haiti has existed my entire life. Now if you want to ask why I haven't gone. Well, the cheapest answer is haiti hasn't invited. Which is what haiti did in the time of the emperor or king, but your man , like you, Frederick Douglass, couldn't even stomach being the ambassador to haiti. I mean, your tribe, love hindering all others, and then get angry when all others don't do what you say... anyway, modernity demands I make my way in. And I am working on it. I am human. My bloodlines don't have a history of massive wealth to provide for vibrant inheritances for most of the last five hundred years. It will take more time. 

 

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

Quote

Haitii exists right now, as their constitution under the emperor states, they are called the blacks technically, not haitians. That is a nod to all black peoples around the world. Haiti is a geographic distinction. But in a constitution that black people of haiti had true involvement with, free from whites or blacks who want to be whites, or blacks who want to align with whites, earned through the blood of war. Haiti is the land for all Black Peoples. 

 

 

But.....

 

 

Quote

Now if you want to ask why I haven't gone. Well, the cheapest answer is haiti hasn't invited.

 

 

 

 

 -Is this not a contradiction?
 

If Haiti is the land for ALL Black people and being the land for "the blacks" it has given the nod to ALL Black people from around the world....that sounds to me like the invitation has been issued.

 

Don't blame "my tribe" or Frederick Douglass because the street lights are on and you still don't want to go home...lol.

 

 

 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

-Is this not a contradiction?

no because of the following

4 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Frederick Douglass, couldn't even stomach being the ambassador to haiti.

what I meant by invite was a robust invitation by the government.  I didn't suggest I couldn't go, to be blunt, I was offered, but I have my reasons for doing all things. and my primary reasons for not choosing haiti is many things that I am not interested in discussing

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If Haiti is the land for ALL Black people and being the land for "the blacks" it has given the nod to ALL Black people from around the world....that sounds to me like the invitation has been issued.

it was, to be blunt, if you search liberia or sierra leone there are still those in both of those countries who open doors for black folk from the american continent to africa for DOSers if they wish. 

The point I was making to you, which you have missed is that lands already exist in various places for my tribe. It is not a matter of needing a new place. You suggested a land was needed and that is not the truth, their are quite a few places on this earth, for my tribe but, my relation to them is not what I discussed. You do seem to be interested in me 

and thus your following, very dry joke. As you well know I have never blamed other Black tribes for anything concerning my own black tribe. 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Don't blame "my tribe" or Frederick Douglass because the street lights are on and you still don't want to go home...lol.

 

 

In my own mind when I think of detroit, the sole black northern [meaning exo southern, west or north of the confederate states] city of a certain size, I wonder what it needs. I know wayne county + michigan are enemies to Detroit, as a black city's growth, this is well documented. But, when I look at cities around the world, the ones that financially thrive have an industry and Detroit doesn't have an industry. The car companies accountants and administrators are there, but not the manufacturing. 

[ProfD]

On 2/22/2026 at 9:01 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I think yall may be taking this "tribes" business a little too far....lol.

Tribe is just a shorthand way of typing "group of like-minded people".

 

On 2/22/2026 at 1:57 PM, richardmurray said:

The best examples of black empowerment have always been made by my tribe. Your tribe has from the beginning only offered an integrated solution which has limits for black growth. 

Please provide examples of their accomplishments in terms of Black empowerment. 

 

On 2/22/2026 at 5:18 PM, richardmurray said:

always has, the garveyites/the quilombos/haiti/the black loyalist, all achieved getting a land, achieved not merely attempted. Even the exodusters did achieve...

Were they able to sustain & make it wealthy?

 

On 2/22/2026 at 5:18 PM, richardmurray said:

Haitii exists right now, as their constitution under the emperor states, they are called the blacks technically, not haitians. That is a nod to all black peoples around the world. Haiti is a geographic distinction. But in a constitution that black people of haiti had true involvement with, free from whites or blacks who want to be whites, or blacks who want to align with whites, earned through the blood of war. Haiti is the land for all Black Peoples. 

Is this the same Haiti that owes a debt to France into perpetuity?

 

Haiti might be *free* from white folks but it will always be poor because white folks have seized their wealth. 

 

20 hours ago, richardmurray said:

was, to be blunt, if you search liberia or sierra leone there are still those in both of those countries who open doors for black folk from the american continent to africa for DOSers if they wish. 

Both Freetown in Sierra Leone & Liberia had huge issues with the Black folks that emigrated from the USA.

 

Black folks outside the USA are not welcoming FBA/AfroAmericans with open arms either. They are looking for us to bring a bag of money.

 

I'm a huge proponent of Black folks being empowered & self-sufficient & autonomous throughout the planet. I would love to see all Black folks winning.

[Pioneer1]

18 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@Pioneer1

 

no because of the following

what I meant by invite was a robust invitation by the government.  I didn't suggest I couldn't go, to be blunt, I was offered, but I have my reasons for doing all things. and my primary reasons for not choosing haiti is many things that I am not interested in discussing

 

Ofcourse it's not UP for discussion......lol.
We all know why you haven't chosen to leave...."robust invite" or not.
You don't want to leave because you have several "addictions" keeping you here.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Addiction #1: FOOD
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Addiction #2: HOT WATER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Addiction #3: ELECTRICITY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Addiction #4: WI-FI

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Addiction #5: CLEAN UNDERWEAR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's easy to trash America when you're sitting in a cozy room sipping on warm apple cider and tapping away on your computer keyboard....lol.

But if you had to LEAVE America and live in a third world country........

It's hard to keep your focus when the only thing you have to eat is a can of sardines, the lights and electricity keeps flickering on and off, and General Bar-B-Que and his boys are kicking in doors and popping caps all around the hood and the sounds keep getting closer and closer.....lol.

 

 

"Tribes?
Oh.....you have...ehhhh..... tribe?
So do I.
I am....ehh...zehhh....Chief of my tribe.
They call me Chief....ehh....Bar-B-Que.
I shall show you why!"
 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 

It's funny, me and a dear friend of mine, by dear friend I mean a person I know offline who is a friend, talk about this sometimes. And... your assertion to me is incorrect but your assertion to me if applied to the larger populace in the usa is correct. many peoples I have heard say they want to leave the usa, in various scenarios, but don't because they enjoy the amenities/friendly things of the usa. But that is not my reason. I have been fortunate to spend enough time outside the usa to comprehend already what I need and don't need to be happy. What is needed or not needed to survive or live or thrive for myself. And I am lucky enough to know those who have left the usa successfully, in my lifetime, from Harlem, not merely history books. And they add the last bit of information about the process. So your wrong about me, not about most people who say they will leave the usa , but it isn't that way for me. I will not give my logic/thinking, I am not interested in preaching or guiding.  But I have said before in this very forum, that I love history and history teaches too... united states of america/liberia/sierra leone/israel/australia  are cautionary tales about immigration, for me anyway. It isn't enough to have resources. I need more than that. I honor my forebears sir and for me what that means is I am not an enslaver nor am I butcher/abuser and the usa/libeira/sierra leone/israel/australia are not born from justice or equality or anything positive usa/liberia/sierra leone/israel/australia are all born from two things alone, an immigrant butchering/abusing  people already there and an immigrant enslaving people already there. I am not interested in that. And sadly for me, modern humanity which has been molded by the usa is ripe most places for immigrants to butcher/abuse or to enslave the people already there. You and your fellow statians only believe in helping yourselves individually, you love to talk of the law but love to abuse others legally, and then blame those you've abused legally for being themselves. I am a thoughtful person. True honor, civility, purpose, matter to me. 

[ProfD]

I do not agree with how the USA was founded.  I detest the original sin of slavery. 

 

I believe enslavers...white folks & Native Americans and anybody else who participated in &/or benefitted from the transatlantic slave trade owes a huge debt to FBA/AfroAmericans.  Reparations.  Cut the checks. 

 

However...I was born & raised in the USA.  It is my birthplace.  It is my *home* country. 

 

While I have options, there is no other country I want to go & live & consider home. 

 

I do have every *right* to thrive in the USA. 

 

I have to play the hand I was dealt under the system of racism white supremacy.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

18 hours ago, ProfD said:

Please provide examples of their accomplishments in terms of Black empowerment. 

 

haiti. the only country started by Black Americans whose forebears were enslaved to whites.  What is more powerful for any people than starting their own country?  What is hilarious is a black person in modernity asks this, is ignorant to haiti's value as the greatest symbol of black empowerment and yet, the whole reason zionists, white jews, made israel was to do what black americans whose forebears were enslaved to whites did in haiti. and profd and other blacks need an example of my tribes accomplishments in black empowerment. And I will add on the cake, while the white jews of israel use their white status to scheme and plot , using advantages, haiti did this while being attacked in open warfare by france/england/spain/U.S.A. all recorded as being defeated by haiti. Was it easy? no, many black people died. it was the hardest of things. but it was done and even though haiti has suffered surrounded by the two biggest slave states in modern human history: USA + Brazil or  surrounded by anti black or black integrationists countries: mexico/jamaica/venezuela/trinidad/puerto rico/cuba/panama/costa rica Haiti had golden times. 

18 hours ago, ProfD said:

Were they able to sustain & make it wealthy?

Yes, the citadel la ferriere is the biggest fort in the american continent and still stands. Built by Blacks of Haiti. 

Did the golden age last forever... no countries golden age last forever. And I will not chagrin Haiti's golden age not lasting forever when no one chagrin's Rome's golden age not lasting forever, or England's or China's or the USA's... all  government have golden times, and not so golden, and miserable times. I don't know what you mean by sustain. 

During HAiti's golden time, Haiti was littered with beatiful homes, and the usa circa spanish american war, stole a lot of gold from haiti, which is of course breaking the law, your fellow black integrationist  @Pioneer1 of course has little to say when white people or white countries, like the usa,  break laws, but.. ok. So They did make it wealthy. I will apologize for Haiti and say, its not easy being the only country in an entire continent [ from canada to argentina ] where black people are free and in charge, but I have always comprehended you and your tribes love of the usa and unforgiveness for any other tribes ways. 

 

18 hours ago, ProfD said:

Is this the same Haiti that owes a debt to France into perpetuity?

 

Haiti might be *free* from white folks but it will always be poor because white folks have seized their wealth. 

The USA seized the wealth. The debt to france is not physical. I will explain. One of the governments of haiti, after the golden time decided to accept a reparation debt to france, which is hilarious at some level, and that is what france suggest is owed to it. And for the record, Algeria says France owes them, but... anyway. Governments of countries have these sorts of arrangements. by france's own record the USA owes france so... countries say they owe things...I don't know why you made that statement as if you don't comprehend how these things are. The USA owes France, the USA has tons of money, can print tons, has never once thought to pay France so... It seems to me you love to mention anti black . Maybe I am reading to much into your position, but very anti black for me. you mention a situation that happens. If every coutry/government in the world was based on whether another country said they owed, the entire college of governments would be in financial destitution. Why does Haiti have a double standard? why does haiti's supposed debts warrant mention but other countries don't? outside of the fact that some blacks, who love the usa, who don't care for other tribes, like to make uneven arguments. 

The Blacks of haiti are freer even today than any other black americans including in the usa. Not as financially wealthier based on white owned banks and white currencies but... ok. 

As for the eternity of poverty your wrong, first or foremost because some haitians who live in haiti are wealthy that means a brighter day is always possible. I can't tell you when. I have no foresight, but it will happen. Again , Ireland was taken by england in 1541, most of ireland was free from england in 1921 so circa three hundred and eighty years and in some parts of ireland from 1100s england was king, so things take time. I don't know where your from where somehow, things are supposed to be forever, nothing is forever. Just so you know, the usa will fall one day, through rupture in itself for some reason , or maybe decay in itself for some reason , thrugh some opposing government somewhere rising as it falls. It will happen. I think maybe you think it will not. 

Haiti had a golden age, it will have one again. 

19 hours ago, ProfD said:

Both Freetown in Sierra Leone & Liberia had huge issues with the Black folks that emigrated from the USA.

 

Black folks outside the USA ar e not welcoming to FBA/AfroAmericans with open arms either. They are looking for us to bring a bag of money.

 

I'm a huge proponent of Black folks being empowered & self-sufficient & autonomous throughout the planet. I would love to see all Black folks winning.

I rather reword what you said here. the indigenous black peoples of what would become sierra leone and liberia were treated like the palestiniean while the black americans who founded freetown or monrovia were like the set white jews commonly called zionists.  

 

I wanted to reword only because the issues you mention are best described in a proper way. In the beginning sierra leone or liberia didn't exist. These were lands of black tribes of africa. I forget their names, but so many exist in Africa. 

The next step was when black americans financed by whites made monrovia or freetown, freetown was first actually, monrovia was second in time. 

And third step was the creation of sierra leone about freetown or liberia about monrovia. I did research on this. The problem  or issues is  between step 2 and 3. 

The black americans who immigrated back, not all, it was messy ok, but many black americans who immigrated back , like so many immigrants in the USA age, the last white european imperial era, think only of themselves and little of the people they have to interact with. The tragedy for me is the black americans like me who lived with the indigenous blacks weren't strong enough to stop the black americans like you and pioneer who only look to themselves, which is not a crime it is a choice,  and were willing to abuse their fellow black, for financial profit, which came true. the descendents of the black americans who were greedy and cruel , as i guess par the course in all humanity, are the wealthiest in sierra leone and liberia today. 

 

Your right, most, not all but, most blacks outside the usa aren't welcoming to black amerians as strangers although, we black americans earned that reputation in liberia or sierra leones. 

For me what is sad is, in freetown or monrovia they could had simply focused on. those cities  were enough. they didn't need to take the land about those cities. Yes what I am about to say is cheap hindsight, worth nothing now, but the lesson is, you have the city,  make a deal with the remainder peoples to extend the city's [freetown or monrovia] land for immediate growth and then make an ironclad law giving the land about freetown or monrovia to the indigenous black folk with the condition that the laws allow for ownership and sales to allow for black americans to buy land for even rate, but also modify the fiscal habits of the indigenous. Allow women to own land, inheritance to pass to male or female, block land from being owned by the nonblack. The legal code. But in defense, most of those black americans who founded monrovia or freetown, which in my mind are the true inheritances, not the country of liberia or sierra leone. is that they were country folk. country folk, don't have experience with cities and more importantly, how cities work. I imagine most of them couldn't comprehend how different a city is. when you look at monaco/singapore, monrovia or freetown should had been like them, but unlike those two , city states who had a century or more of being a city state province monrovia or freetown were ust made by mostly farmers who were thinking freetown or monrovia need to be like pre civil war atlanta, not pre civil war nyc.  But they were wrong, or at least the black americans who won the war between black americans over what to do, were wrong.  But, there are still those in sierra leone or liberia who believe in that old purpose, yes not everyone , but still some exist. 

 

 

Your right, you and pioneer and me all want black happiness. I admit that i react negatively sometimes to the wording of you and pioneer, either you don't know things you should know or you are rattling the saber which I don't find funny, or take lightly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

haiti. the only country started by Black Americans whose forebears were enslaved to whites.  What is more powerful for any people than starting their own country?  What is hilarious is a black person in modernity asks this, is ignorant to haiti's value as the greatest symbol of black empowerment...

A very good friend of mine is Haitian. He & his wife & other family members who immigrated to the USA have given me the whole run down on their beloved home country. They also told me why they're in no rush to go back there to live.

 

Certain parts of Haiti are beautiful to visit. Yet, there's a lot of infrastructure work that needs to be done in the country. The biggest impediment...greed & corruption. 

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 ...your fellow black integrationist  @Pioneer1 of course has little to say when white people or white countries, like the usa,  break laws, but.. ok.

Don't know why you keep insisting I'm an integrationist. 

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

I have always comprehended you and your tribes love of the usa and unforgiveness for any other tribes ways. 

I do not love the USA. It just happens to be my home country. I'm not fortunate enough to have another country to which I can return.

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Maybe I am reading to much into your position, but very anti black for me.

As always. I call balls & strikes. There is nothing anti-Black about me.

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Why does Haiti have a double standard?

Haiti doesn't have a double standard.

 

It is a fact that France has been collecting money from Haiti for a couple hundred years now.

 

Part of the reason is Haitian greed & corruption starting with the lighter-skinned folks running around down there.

 

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

why does haiti's supposed debts warrant mention but other countries don't? outside of the fact that some blacks, who love the usa, who don't care for other tribes, like to make uneven arguments. 

The intent was not an uneven argument. But, I can see where your sensitivity & affection for Haiti might make it seem that way.

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

The Blacks of haiti are freer even today than any other black americans including in the usa.

That has not stopped Haitians from immigrating to the USA.

 

Just think...Wyclef could've started The Fugees down there if his family hadn't posted up in New Jersey.

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

buAs for the eternity of poverty your wrong, first or foremost because some haitians who live in haiti are wealthy that means a brighter day is always possible.

A very small minority of Haitians are wealthy. More than likely, they're among the greedy & corrupt. That's why Bar-B-Que was running amok.

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

I wanted to reword only because the issues you mention are best described in a proper way.

You don't have to reword what I have written in order to give your lecture/sermon.

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

The tragedy for me is the black americans like me who lived with the indigenous blacks weren't strong enough to stop the black americans like you and pioneer who only look to themselves...

There you go again casting unwarranted aspersions against us.

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 Your right, you and pioneer and me all want black happiness. I admit that i react negatively sometimes to the wording of you and pioneer, either you don't know things you should know or you are rattling the saber which I don't find funny, or take lightly.

Most people who have a bias one way or another tend to lack balance in perspective. 

 

Regardless of what I type in calling balls & strikes, I always wanted Black folks all over the planet to win.

 

I believe in tough love. What I think & type about my people...Black folks....might be abrasive sometimes.

 

Our people...Black folks are just as guilty of being greedy & corrupt  & full of sh8t & excuses for why they can't do better. I'll never accept it.

 

The system of racism white supremacy is a big enough enemy.

 

Black folks don't need to be enemies among themselves. Solves nothing. In fact, it helps white folks maintain power & control.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

A very good friend of mine is Haitian. He & his wife & other family members who immigrated to the USA have given me the whole run down on their beloved home country. They also told me why they're in no rush to go back there to live.

 

Certain parts of Haiti are beautiful to visit. Yet, there's a lot of infrastructure work that needs to be done in the country. The biggest impediment...greed & corruption.

I don't know what relevancy your prose has. You asked me the following. 

On 2/23/2026 at 6:41 PM, richardmurray said:

Please provide examples of their accomplishments in terms of Black empowerment. 

I gave haiti as an answer, with full temporal comprehension. Then you replied with the above, which has nothing to do with the question you posed. but ok. You did not ask me about the condition of modern haiti, you asked what my tribe accomplished, i gave the truth. I don't know what your highlighted prose above has to do with the question you posed. 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

Don't know why you keep insisting I'm an integrationist. 

 

What else can anyone who embraces the USA be? You said the USA is your country. I have no problem with that. But, the USA from its very beginnings was integrated. I didn't say the integration was positive, it wasn't, but it was integrated. And it still is today and will always be unless one populace becomes an overwhelming majority which is not going to happen any time soon. And the war between the states is the proof that whites internally have never seen themselves as unified as some nonwhites suggest. 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

I do not love the USA. It just happens to be my home country. I'm not fortunate enough to have another country to which I can return.

 

Even enough. But the usa will always be your home country because , unfortunately, for Black DOSers none of us have a country to return too. Our black forebears, which is what Henry Louis gates rjr shows dismisses so poorly, didn't come from one place in africa, they came from various places. As I have said in this very forum. Most of Black DOSers forebears were buried in the ocean, not any land, as 90% of the people in the boats died on the journey. Those are all Black DOSers initial forebears. And our initial forebears came from all over the continent of africa, not any one particular country, so unless the African Union is handing out citizenship. 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

Haiti doesn't have a double standard.

 

It is a fact that France has been collecting money from Haiti for a couple hundred years now.

 

Part of the reason is Haitian greed & corruption starting with the lighter-skinned folks running around down there.

The double standard I referred to wasn't concerning haiti paying money, but the following.

 

On 2/23/2026 at 6:41 PM, richardmurray said:

Is this the same Haiti that owes a debt to France into perpetuity?

 

Haiti might be *free* from white folks but it will always be poor because white folks have seized their wealth. 

why Haiti being considered owing something is special or warrants note when I gave multiple examples of many countries, whites ones, that are still stated as owing even if they don't pay. so countries have relationships. And the reason isn't greed or corruption, it is simpler than that, it is haiti' uniqueness. I don't know why I have to say it cause you know or should know, that haiti was surrounded by slavers. Haiti's nearest neighbor is modern jamaica which at that time was merely a territory of the british empire and the country garvey wanted to escape which led him to be antiwhite, that is jamaica. so... The reason is when you are surrounded by enemies, it matters.  Intelligence and strategy aren't godly things, they have limits, they can't make everything happen. A kid surrounded by thirty bullies will never kick all those other kids ask or smooth talk his way by them if they want to hurt him. 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

The intent was not an uneven argument. But, I can see where your sensitivity & affection for Haiti might make it seem that way.

 

Haiiti is special for those in my tribe. But my irritation is not from adoration to haiti but miscomprehension. You and pioneer love to veer in your prose. you have a question, i give a response, but then you respond to my response with something totally unrelated to my response. 

 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

That has not stopped Haitians from immigrating to the USA.

 

Just think...Wyclef could've started The Fugees down there if his family hadn't posted up in New Jersey.

hell, go farther back, remember, black people of haiti literally left former saint dominique with their white owners to new orleans, so the heritage of haitians to the usa is arguably older than any other black populace anywhere outside the usa. 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

A very small minority of Haitians are wealthy. More than likely, they're among the greedy & corrupt. That's why Bar-B-Que was running amok.

 

yes that is why I call all the rich around the world the global one percent. every country today has wealthy people, including the somalias/kashmir/east timors of the world. A very small minority of people under any government are the most wealthy in their respective lands.

 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

You don't have to reword what I have written in order to give your lecture/sermon.

On 2/23/2026 at 6:41 PM, richardmurray said:

hahah I am not trying to give a sermon, i have no pulpit in my home

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

There you go again casting unwarranted aspersions against us.

 

I was uneven to you and pioneer. 

On 2/23/2026 at 9:03 PM, ProfD said:

Most people who have a bias one way or another tend to lack balance in perspective. 

 

Regardless of what I type in calling balls & strikes, I always wanted Black folks all over the planet to win.

 

I believe in tough love. What I think & type about my people...Black folks....might be abrasive sometimes.

 

Our people...Black folks are just as guilty of being greedy & corrupt  & full of sh8t & excuses for why they can't do better. I'll never accept it.

 

The system of racism white supremacy is a big enough enemy.

 

Black folks don't need to be enemies among themselves. Solves nothing. In fact, it helps white folks maintain power & control.

Well... onto the future. 

[ProfD]

44 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

 

You did not ask me about the condition of modern haiti, you asked what my tribe accomplished, i gave the truth.

Fair enough. Haiti did successfully revolt against France. That was a major accomplishment. 

 

44 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

What else can anyone who embraces the USA be? You said the USA is your country. I have no problem with that.

Warts & all...the USA is my birthplace. Just as I didn't choose my parents nor was it my decision the country where I was born.

 

44 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

Most of Black DOSers forebears were buried in the ocean, not any land, as 90% of the people in the boats died on the journey.

Those who died & were buried in the ocean didn't bear fruit on foreign soil.

 

44 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

Haiti's nearest neighbor is modern jamaica which at that time was merely a territory of the british empire and the country garvey wanted to escape which led him to be antiwhite, that is jamaica.

Rhetorically, I wonder why Marcus Garvey didn't start his movement in Jamaica. 

 

44 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

Haiiti is special for those in my tribe. But my irritation is not from adoration to haiti but miscomprehension. You and pioneer love to veer in your prose. you have a question, i give a response, but then you respond to my response with something totally unrelated to my response. 

Trust & believe, there's no lack of comprehension. We know the history of Haiti too.

 

44 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

yes that is why I call all the rich around the world the global one percent. every country today has wealthy people, including the somalias/kashmir/east timors of the world. A very small minority of people under any government are the most wealthy in their respective lands.

Most of the wealthy people in a country are responsible for greed & corruption.

 

Until people are willing to fight & seize power in order to redistribute wealth or a sky fairy comes along...the status quo will remain unchanged.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Fair enough. Haiti did successfully revolt against France. That was a major accomplishment. 

 

Free itself from France, but also stay free from the likes of England/Spain/USA who all tried to replace france as its owner, and failed. Not just a major accomplishment to defeat four of the strongest navies in humanity at that time, legendary. Very bloody, many lives lost. I think of a man from north vietnam who once said, I paraphrase, he was the only one to return to his building, all the other homes in his building lost their youngest generations to the vietnam war. 

Legendary, extremely costly. 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Those who died & were buried in the ocean didn't bear fruit on foreign soil.

well, but you forget the first problem is, the rounding up of black people was collective. the papers of the hausa caliphate literally state that their border towns dealt with raiders constantly taking families, whole towns. It was a serious problem.  So... the point being, the relatives of the black people who bore fruit on foreign soil are those people who didn't make it across the big water.  That female or male who became part of the ten percent who survived the trip, lost their mother over the water, their brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins. The town was gone. I never forget the film CEdou by ousmane sembene, I think from senegal and remember, saint lous was a big slave port. Individuals would be taken, as in the film, but the majority would be... groups of those not in power, undesiretable/poor... like the untouchable caste in india. So your correct in that those who died on the water, the ninety percent ,  didn't bear fruit in the american continent, but they were family, or at least clan to the ten percent who became our strict biological forebears and so for me, ... For me, the people who died over the ocean are more my forebears than their living relatives and descendents on the continent.

Another great philosophical variance in the tribes of black americans amazing

 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Rhetorically, I wonder why Marcus Garvey didn't start his movement in Jamaica. 

 

 Based on Garvey's words I think it is clear, garvey didn't see the american continent as a home for Black DOSer. He comprehended that black dosers from canada to argentina, existed and were born or raised in said lands. But, from his point of view all of the american continent was anti black. And even in haiti I get his point. If anything haiti proves garvey's point about leaving the american continent. HAiti's problem sis the american continent. Canada/UA/Mexico/BRasil/Venezuela most of the lands in the american continet are run by those who are anti black. and during his time, Jamaica was a crown colony, where you had europhile blacks in positive positions. I argue Garvey saw jamaica even with its majority black population as white and that makes sense, cause if you consider how much trouble the rastafarians have in jamaica today while jamaica leeches off of the memory of bob marley, I think it is all clear. The blacks in jamaica... are very europhile, even back then. Now one can argue, maybe garvey should had given the english empire more thought. Sierra leone existed, maybe he could had worked to that. But Garvey clearly didn't care/trust/want to work with a majority of the  whites on the land he was raised on. 

 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Most of the wealthy people in a country are responsible for greed & corruption.

 

Until people are willing to fight & seize power in order to redistribute wealth or a sky fairy comes along...the status quo will remain unchanged.

well said:) 

 

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Based on Garvey's words I think it is clear, garvey didn't see the american continent as a home for Black DOSer. He comprehended that black dosers from canada to argentina, existed and were born or raised in said lands. But, from his point of view all of the american continent was anti black.

Garvey was correct in prophecy that a king would ne crowned somewhere in Africa.

 

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

...and during his time, Jamaica was a crown colony, where you had europhile blacks in positive positions. I argue Garvey saw jamaica even with its majority black population as white and that makes sense, cause if you consider how much trouble the rastafarians have in jamaica today while jamaica leeches off of the memory of bob marley, I think it is all clear. 

Yet, inspired by that king, Ethiopian Emperor Haile Salassie, the Rastafarians started their movement in Jamaica & spread it beyond the island nation.

 

Rastafarians have their own tribe, culture & music.