@richardmurray You need to check out the part of this video at the 1 hour and 13 minute mark where he talks about how Universal Income is a trap.
I said something similar about it months ago.

The only way people will be able to avoid the Universal Basic Income (UBI) is to have knowlege, skills & abilities of value.

People will have to produce things that others are willing to pay for & consume.

In the future, trading labor for a salary will be more difficult. Especially when AI takes jobs. 😎

12 hours ago, ProfD said:

The only way people will be able to avoid the Universal Basic Income (UBI) is to have knowlege, skills & abilities of value.

People will have to produce things that others are willing to pay for & consume.

In the future, trading labor for a salary will be more difficult. Especially when AI takes jobs. 😎

In other words, they want to take America back to the way Feudalistic Europe used to be back 1000 years ago where the rich nobility owned all of the land and the serfs and peasants were just silent workers with no rights.

AI has nothing to do with it.
They've been moving society in that direction in the United States for about 50 years now, since the Civil Rights Movement.

There are enough jobs in Healthcare ALONE to provide every stable-minded able-bodied person with decent employment.
Those who run this society are CHOOSING not to because limiting their ability to make a living maintains more control over them.

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

.... rich nobility owned all of the land and the serfs and peasants were just silent workers with no rights.

There are enough jobs in Healthcare ALONE to provide every stable-minded able-bodied person with decent employment.

Those who run this society are CHOOSING not to because limiting their ability to make a living maintains more control over them.

The question becomes what are the masses of people who will be reduced to serfs & peasants going to do about it.😎

51 minutes ago, ProfD said:

The question becomes what are the masses of people who will be reduced to serfs & peasants going to do about it.😎

The masses???

I expect most of them to do what they're doing right now, which is smoking that fake weed and play video games.
....and when things get too bad for some of them, internalize their frustrations and commit suicide.

Again, not all...but most.

29 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

The masses???

I expect most of them to do what they're doing right now, which is smoking that fake weed and play video games.

Gotcha. Reads like you were referring to a select group of Black folks becoming serfs & peasants under the Universal Basic Income (UBI) system.

UBI is going to affect all working class people (masses) especially when AI & robots are capable of doing their jobs.😎

ProfD

Gotcha. Reads like you were referring to a select group of Black folks becoming serfs & peasants under the Universal Basic Income (UBI) system.

I was actually refereeing to Americans PERIOD of different races becoming serfs and peasants.

But the majority.....ofcourse....would be people of color.

UBI is going to affect all working class people (masses) especially when AI & robots are capable of doing their jobs.

True.

As it was designed to do.

However if you look at the portion of the video I mentioned after the 1:13 minute mark, UBI is going to be used as an instrument for social and societal control.

I know this is coming because that's what it's being used for in China right now.

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

UBI is going to affect all working class people (masses) especially when AI & robots are capable of doing their jobs.

True.

As it was designed to do.

However if you look at the portion of the video I mentioned after the 1:13 minute mark, UBI is going to be used as an instrument for social and societal control.

I listened to it from that mark & before & beyond.

Societal control has been ongoing long before UBI & AI.

Welfare & other forms of social services already places a certain amount of control over people who use it.😎

ProfD

It also forces a lot of people to lie and sets them up to be charge for fraud.

Some of these government programs actually require you to be dirt poor with NO assets what so ever.....then you can get some help.
Most people aren't going to sit up and let their money run COMPLETELY out before asking for help; what are they going to do while the government is deliberating whether or not to help them?

I'm not sure how it works, but many people on Social Security are either not allowed to work, or the amount of money they are allowed to earn is limited.

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Some of these government programs actually require you to be dirt poor with NO assets what so ever.....then you can get some help.

That is their weird way of determining who really needs the help & trying to prevent people from defrauding the system.

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Most people aren't going to sit up and let their money run COMPLETELY out before asking for help; what are they going to do while the government is deliberating whether or not to help them?

The government is less inclined to give money to people who have it. They'll give tax breaks to the rich though.

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not sure how it works, but many people on Social Security are either not allowed to work, or the amount of money they are allowed to earn is limited.

Correct.

Social Security was initially designed to provide income to people over a certain age who can no longer work.

The Social Security program was expanded to provide benefits to a broader group of people.

Therefore, Social Security doesn't allow recipients to make more than a certain amount of income while receiving benefits.

Thought is if a person can work & earn more than a certain income per year, they don't need Social Security benefits.😎

ProfD

That is their weird way of determining who really needs the help & trying to prevent people from defrauding the system.

When it comes to helping people, conventional wisdom would dictate that you err on the side of CAUTION.

Help out everybody who asks you for help even if some of them don't actually need it to ensure everyone who DOES need it will get it.

Not making sure a person is down, out, and on the street begging BEFORE you even entertain the possibility of helping them...to ensure they aren't scamming the system.

The government is less inclined to give money to people who have it. They'll give tax breaks to the rich though.

As well as billions of dollars in foreign aid to other countries who have NOT paid taxes to the United States, like most American citizens have.

Correct.

Social Security was initially designed to provide income to people over a certain age who can no longer work.

Either couldn't, or reached the age where they SHOULD no longer work (unless they wanted to).

When you've worked all your life and have reached the age of 65.....you DESERVE to take a break, lol.

The Social Security program was expanded to provide benefits to a broader group of people.

The only people I know of who can get Social Security are aged people and disabled people -and their dependents.

Unless they've expanded THAT to immigrants as well, lol..

Therefore, Social Security doesn't allow recipients to make more than a certain amount of income while receiving benefits.

Thought is if a person can work & earn more than a certain income per year, they don't need Social Security benefits.

True.

However they make that window very narrow.

I agree that if a person is making a million dollars a year....no...they shouldn't be receiving Social Security payments, although they still should be getting free healthcare.

But if a person is making under $100,000 a year they should still get a check to supplement their income.

@Pioneer1 you say Universal basic income is a trap aligning to his stated position that universal basic income will force people to adhere to whatever government mandates or policies to retain the money needed for them to survive in the usa, in which their rent, food, clothing, ehalthcare, schools, holiday costs are more than most can afford.

Now while I contest his attempt at prescience, assuming universal basic income will come with fealty of a petty nature, let us assume it will happen. Ok. Then the fears you or he have are warranted with the assumption. But, let us look at the environment, the financial environment in the usa?

Now he admitted in the very same video that the labor market for humans in the usa is dwindling. He admitted it. Now, it is also commonly comprehended that ninety percent of wealth in the usa is inherited, meaning, acquired by geniture, or bloodline descendency. It si also commonly known that ninety percent of the wealth is in the hands f a one percent ... sometimes one percent of a one percent.

So

overwhelming majority of wealth being inherited +

most wealth in an extremely small percentage of the populace,+

a dying human labor fiscal need =

the fiscal sitaution in the usa today

said fiscal situation in the usa today +univeral basic income = maintenance of the current system of debt, wealth, inheritance, market manipulation or structures. or cost in various industries.

Absent this elevated welfare, what do you propose for people to do to pay for rent/food.healthcare? I didn't listen to the whole video but he didn't offer solutions.

Are you suggesting fiscal poor people kill themselves? yeah ok, I know a number of blacks throughout the years, all ages, have said that. Most in humanity will never do it. Do you know why I know? nothing black people went through in the usa was harder than legal enslavement on the mind + body+ spirit and yet they as humans foun ways to survive, not thrive, but survive such that they didn't kill themselves. Even if that meant being a shell or empty vessel just breathing till you die. But they didn't kill themselves.

Most humans will not kill themselves today and especially with the option of Universal basic income.

The problem with every single person opposed to universal basic income is the absence of an alternative from them.

you say it is a trap but I still think it is an inevitability based on the environment.

I live in NYC, the rent is too high, the food is too hgih, the healthcare is too high. Now you can sya, people should move. But, move where? Is los angeles cheap? is louisiana safe? Remember, right now, the carpet industry, based in georgia, has multiple lawsuits from white people , fiscal poor white people, from south carolina to alabama, over their air and water being cancer causing for decades, at least fifty years easy.

Moving isn't going to help most people in the usa.

Then the learn skills argument . But here is the problem with the skills argument. the history of labor in the usa proves labor was never given for skills, that is another myth in the usa.

Black people were used as enslaved labor not because of merit or their skills but cheapness, affordability. The second legal ensalvement ended, circa 1865, white people went about entrapping black people in bad contracts which whether legal or illegal were expensive to contest in a court of law and since 99% of black person born before 1965 in the usa had no money , no financial inheritance, they had no money to afford the legal fees necessary to challenge all the legal traps whtite people terrorized black people into from 1865 to 1980.

When the immigration act came in the mid nineteen hundred and sixties, the whites used uneducated immigrants, not because of skills but because of cheapness of labor.

The use of robots/computer programs/machines of various levels began taking over human laborers in the usa before said electronics were a skillwise replacement for human labor.

So what is the answer?

At the end of the day, all movements anywhere in humanity to be stopped need an alaternative and in absence of the alterantive, the movement will kee moving to its inevitability.

ECONOMIC CORNER

https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/787-economic-corner-42-07262026/

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Help out everybody who asks you for help even if some of them don't actually need it to ensure everyone who DOES need it will get it.

Agreed.

When a person rolls into a shock trauma center the doctors immediately spring into action to save their life. They don't have time to ask the patient a bunch of dumbazz questions & have them fill out paperwork.

All of that information is collected if/when the person is sitting up recovery eating applesauce & drinking Ensure & talking & laughing on their phone.

Patient talking to a homie ..."Hole up mayne....deez peoples wanna ask me bout my insurance & allergies & sh8t. I'mma call you back but find out who shot me. Dat n8gga needs to be dealt wit when I come home."🤣

The government could take care of every citizen in need of food & healthcare & housing. It chooses to prioritize defense & other sh8t that has little or nothing to do with quality of life.😎

richardmurray

Absent this elevated welfare, what do you propose for people to do to pay for rent/food.healthcare?

Petition their respective governments to provide these basic necessities for it's citizens in a limited and strategic way so that nobody goes without them and this will provide a decent "competition" with private sources to discourage them from raising the prices too high.

Take healthcare for example.....

The reason health insurance is so high is because there is almost no competition from the government offering a cheaper alternative.

That's what the "public option" was supposed to offer, but your boy Obama cut that out of his Obamacare deal.

Are you suggesting fiscal poor people kill themselves?

Absolutely not.

If their situation is so dire that they feel like dying, they should consider a revolution before doing that....lol.

nothing black people went through in the usa was harder than legal enslavement on the mind + body+ spirit and yet they as humans foun ways to survive, not thrive, but survive such that they didn't kill themselves.

A couple points:

1. Many of them DID kill themselves.

Not only jumping off of ships during the Middle Passage, but even during their enslavement they found ways to kill themselves.

It wasn't very common, but it occurred.

2. It's commonly said that our people "survived".

For the most part...yes.

But millions DID NOT survive....they succumbed.

So what is the answer?

The answer is for AfroAmericans to carve out a piece of America to focus our political and economic power on and try to control as much of our collective destiny as we can instead of relying on the ideas and schemes of Whites to save us.

We should try to get as much political and legal power as we can.
That way if UBI becomes a reality here in the United States, we can atleast control:
....how much of it we get.
....what terms and conditions must be met for individuals to get it.

This whole conversation reminds me of the Luddites revolt in the early 1800's....

Technology is usually feared when first it presents itself

Theirs and y'all or your fears are misplaced...

Did industrialization help or hinder us?

AI is about to empower the individual way beyond what y'all thinking....

4 hours ago, frankster said:

Technology is usually feared when first it presents itself

Theirs as y'all or your's fears are misplaced...

I'm a huge proponent of technology. Especially if it makes life easier & better for humans.

4 hours ago, frankster said:

Did industrialization help or hinder us?

Industrialization was a huge boon to both the infrastructure of the USA & the fortunes people were able to amass.

4 hours ago, frankster said:

AI is about to empower the individual way beyond what y'all thinking....

Sure.

Some people are going to make a sh8t ton of money on the strength of AI.

A lot more jobs will be replaced by AI. Those unemployed people will not feel empowered either. 😎

frankster

Technology is usually feared when first it presents itself

Depending on WHO is presenting it....ofcourse.

The Native Americans who only knew bows and arrows or poison darts had a right to "fear" the new technology of long arms and cannons used against them by White invaders.

Did industrialization help or hinder us?

It helped some and hindered others.

If you were a man who was naturally strong and self sufficient, industrialization "leveled" the playing field by making life easier for men who were weaker and more fragile than you and allowing them to be just as productive if not more productive using the technology.

The legend of John Henry and his sledge hammer vs a steam drill, comes to mind.

Much of the technology that comes out of the West is designed to help White men do what most Black men can do naturally.

AI is about to empower the individual way beyond what y'all thinking....

POSSESSION is also a form of "empowerment".

But often times the malevolent kind.

@Pioneer1

On 7/27/2026 at 8:30 PM, Pioneer1 said:

That's what the "public option" was supposed to offer, but your boy Obama cut that out of his Obamacare deal.

the affordable care act was from nancy pelosi, not obama so it should be called pelosicare

and it wasn't obama who cut it out, the congress did. Obama told pelosi whatever she could get through congress he would sign, and he did. PElosi couldn't get the votes without the public option going away. The reason was simple, the usa is a country of over three hundred and fifty million people cut up in fifty states that are uneven financially.

What that means is, healthcare and the cost of living shifts from state to state and from region to region in states, thus the affordable care act, trying to make healthcare affordable for all the fiscal poor in the usa while in fifty different financial regions which are themselves cut up into various fiscal zones is a hard challenge.

Many donkeys opposed the public option which people don't realize, because healthcare is different in each state.

On 7/27/2026 at 8:30 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Petition their respective governments to provide these basic necessities for it's citizens in a limited and strategic way so that nobody goes without them and this will provide a decent "competition" with private sources to discourage them from raising the prices too high.

hasn't the whole world been petitioning? when you say petition what do you mean? people write letters the government all the time? what do you mean by petition? The UA doesn't allow for direct democracy to be applicable at the federal level so....

On 7/27/2026 at 8:30 PM, Pioneer1 said:

But millions DID NOT survive....they succumbed.

well with at least over ninety percent of black people enslaved from 1492 to 1865 in the lands that make up the modern usa, I am certain all those enslaved in said period survived.

On 7/27/2026 at 8:30 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The answer is for AfroAmericans to carve out a piece of America to focus our political and economic power on and try to control as much of our collective destiny as we can instead of relying on the ideas and schemes of Whites to save us.

We should try to get as much political and legal power as we can.
That way if UBI becomes a reality here in the United States, we can atleast control:
....how much of it we get.
....what terms and conditions must be met for individuals to get it.

ok ,

1) carve out a piece of the usa in which one historically impotent populace within the usa has governmental + financial power to control its destiny

2)if UBI gets implemented , in said carved out piece, said historically impotent populace will be able to dictate how ubi will relate

Your plan is not impossible , but it requires alot of considerations.

1) what percent of black people are not interested in carving out a piece of the usa. whatever percent that is , is a deterrent. I can't say how large but it will include, all black individualist, which has a long history in the usa, these are black people who simply do for themselves as individuals , and view collective black life through the lens of black individuals. Some black people will be part of other black groups that will oppose carving a piece out of the usa. so black donkeys[ party of andrew jackson] black elephants[ party of abraham lincoln] all the black wealthy whose financial wealth is tied to an integrated existence with the non black, black integrationists, who have along history in the usa, who want mixed communities, they don't want individualism but they want black populaces to coexist intermingled with the nonblack. I am missing many others of course, but I can easily assume, maybe twenty percent of the populace of black people in the usa will be willing to carve out a piece of the usa for governmental plus financial control.

2) beyond who among the blacks will be part of this, what part of the usa is to be carved out?

2-A) for a piece of the usa to have the power to relate to federal law on its own, it must be a state in the union. I restate, Universal basic income will be a federal action , the only legal way to dictte how any federal action relates to a particular region is for a place to be a state. countis or cities don't have the legal power to relate to federal law. This is why NYC continually begs NY state for money. Even though NYC is the engine, the federal government gives money to new york state so nyc , even though it earns most of the money, ike los angeles with california, , new york city has to beg new york state for money. So, the only way to make a distinct relationship to a federal law under the current constitution is to be astate in the union. cities nor counties have the power. So, what state will this be?

2-B)The whole purpose of Jim Crow in southern states was to get black people to run out of the southern states so that black people would not have a majority populace in any state in the union. and no, black people today are not running into the likes of georgia, mississippi, south carolina or other So with no state having a majority black populace and each states, majority non black populace 100% opposed to being the minority, I don't see how you can get any state in the union to become majority black which can then allow the scenario you want.

2-C) maybe you can get a state to split. The law in the usa allows a state to split if the state legislature + the congress approve. Based on this, you only have four states with a black populace percentage that can yield such a situation. Louisiana/Mississippi/Alabama/South Carolina

all other states black populaces are too small a percentage.

The problem is all of those states legislatures have been engineered to make sure black legislation in those states is a smaller percentage than the black population. And beyond that, I doubt the white legislatures in those states will ever vote for a split, absent violence or money. Violence I doubt will be accepted by black people let alone non blacks, and money... well... the black wealthy will not finance such a movement for what I stated already so even if you get the numbers this will be a movement absent money so I don't see how it will be able to pay white elected officials to support spliting a state, not to mention paying the congressional members of various other states who will demand money as they have nothing to lose in saying no.

It is possible to consider a movement of black people to one of the sparsely populated northwest states, ala exodusters, but such a move will require money to move said black people and maintain them in a northwest state. But if you have the money It can be done. For example south dakota or north dakota or wyoming each have less than a million people. the poorest state in the union with at least a million black people is mississippi. so if you had money, you could move the million black people of mississppi to one of wyoming or northd akota or south dakota and you would had a majority black state. All three of those states already offer land for sale. so even if the land is small and it forces an urban existence, the populance is the population and thus your strategy manfest.

Your strategy isn't bad, but it requires focus. It will not be a mass movement within the black populace of the usa, that time has passed. It can't involve violence cause black people aren't willing. So with it being legal, that narrows what can be done or where. But as I explained, possible.

On 7/28/2026 at 6:17 PM, frankster said:

Did industrialization help or hinder us?

AI is about to empower the individual way beyond what y'all thinking....

@frankster

The truth is, all technology, from the wheel to ionic pulse drives powered by nuclear fission reactors [ not science fiction, both are being developed by the usa+russia as we type] has positive or negative effects, no technology is all good or all bad. The problem is humans when a technology benefit don't like to admit who isn't and when a technology malfit don't like to admit who isn't. It's always both.

This whole conversation reminds of the Luddites revolt in the early 1800's....

Theirs as you all fears are misplaced...

On 7/28/2026 at 10:33 PM, ProfD said:

I'm a huge proponent of technology. Especially if it makes life easier & better for humans.

Most if not all tech makes life easier and better....

The tech itself hardly or ever makes life worst....

The problem is usually how its used and its waste or environmental impact is managed

On 7/28/2026 at 10:33 PM, ProfD said:

Industrialization was a huge boon to both the infrastructure of the USA & the fortunes people were able to amass.

True...

On 7/28/2026 at 10:33 PM, ProfD said:

Sure.

Yes....so get onboard early for the sake of yourself and progeny

On 7/28/2026 at 10:33 PM, ProfD said:

Some people are going to make a sh8t ton of money on the strength of AI.

I hope to be counted among them...

On 7/28/2026 at 10:33 PM, ProfD said:

A lot more jobs will be replaced by AI. Those unemployed people will not feel empowered either. 😎

A lot more jobs will also be created by AI

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

Technology is usually feared when first it presents itself

Depending on WHO is presenting it....ofcourse.

The Native Americans who only knew bows and arrows or poison darts had a right to "fear" the new technology of long arms and cannons used against them by White invaders.

So we agree..

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Did industrialization help or hinder us?

It helped some and hindered others.

Whose fault is that?

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you were a man who was naturally strong and self sufficient, industrialization "leveled" the playing field by making life easier for men who were weaker and more fragile than you and allowing them to be just as productive if not more productive using the technology.

What's wrong with that?

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The legend of John Henry and his sledge hammer vs a steam drill, comes to mind.

Who won that contest in the end?

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Much of the technology that comes out of the West is designed to help White men do what most Black men can do naturally.

True

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

AI is about to empower the individual way beyond what y'all thinking....

POSSESSION is also a form of "empowerment".

Possession of What?

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But often times the malevolent kind.

that depends on the individual....not the tech.

15 hours ago, richardmurray said:

he truth is, all technology, from the wheel to ionic pulse drives powered by nuclear fission reactors [ not science fiction, both are being developed by the usa+russia as we type] has positive or negative effects, no technology is all good or all bad.

Tech is Neutral.....What is used and How it is Used Managed and Disposed is good bad or indifferent...

The dangers of Nuclear reactors can and could have been significantly reduced by not using Uranium.....instead by using Thorium.

Uranium was used because of wartime constraints and since the tech infrastructure was already there....why remake the wheel

Yes Ionic drives are in use today and is no longer theoretical

What is moving from the realm of science fiction to theoretically feasible is Warp Drives....prototypes are being developed as we type - though not to scale as of yet.

15 hours ago, richardmurray said:

The problem is humans when a technology benefit don't like to admit who isn't and when a technology malfit don't like to admit who isn't. It's always both.

The problem is not the tech....

The problem is the people behind the tech being used....

29 minutes ago, frankster said:

The problem is not the tech....

The problem is the people behind the tech being used....

Absolutely. Like anything else, tech can be used for good or bad; build or destroy; enrich or impoverish.

The most powerful people control levels of access to technology & opportunities, therefore, determining who gets to benefit most from it.

Thankfully, there are so many forms of technology & things that need to be produced, built &/or fixed; problems to solve, that there is no shortage of opportunities for individuals to find a lane & run it.

Personally, I never have a reason to fear technology because I can always find a way to make it work for me.

However, my concern is for the majority of people who either cannot embrace new technology or have limited skillsets or they have problems adapting to change.

Of course, the universe has its own way of separating the chaff from wheat when it comes to humans i.e. adaptability.

Otherwise, people eventually die which ultimately makes change a moot point for them.😎

frankster

Theirs as you all fears are misplaced.

So where....in your opinion...SHOULD those fears be placed?

Whose fault is that?

For the most part, nobody's.

Many if not most people simply don't have the intelligence to properly and efficiently use most of the technology at their disposal to improve their lives.

What's wrong with that?

Some would say it DISRUPTS nature and the natural order of things.

Nature made it so that most of the work in society would be carried out by men strong enough to do it...whether it's hunting, gathering, building, or protecting.

Under natural circumstances, THOSE type of men would be the most successful....the most likely to find mates...and the most likely to reproduce passing along those strong genes and making more strong people.

Technology disrupts this by allowing weak men to produce, build, and protect; thus attracting mates and reproducing which will likely pass along their weak genetics.

Who won that contest in the end?

Our brother Johnny.

And guess what his prize was for beating the machine...........

Possession of What?

Possession of one's mind and body.

that depends on the individual....not the tech.

It depends on the tech if certain technology is being used as a CONDUIT for Entities to possess people.

22 hours ago, frankster said:

Yes Ionic drives are in use today and is no longer theoretical

What is moving from the realm of science fiction to theoretically feasible is Warp Drives....prototypes are being developed as we type - though not to scale as of yet.

@frankster

Ionic drives haven't been theoretical since the early 1900s.

well, science fiction is theory absent arithmetic support. but theoretical feasibility is determined based on what one decides feasibility comes from. From base feasibility on arithmetics, others on lab work, others on fiscal capitalistic presence. so... in the current environment, until any technology is in the fiscal capitalistic markets, it is functionally unfeasible.

When you say warp drives, do you mean warp space ? or do you mean attaining levels of speed significantly above the projected next new heights at the current time?