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Troy

Trailer for NINA starring Zoe Saldana

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It is me, or does Zoe look like an actress performing in Blackface?

Why does EVERY single film trailer about a Black musician show them wielding a gun?  Whether it is the NWA film Straight Outta Compton or Miles Davis bio-pic, one would think Hollyweird believes this is the only way to attract an audience.

Zoe is a fine (in both senses of the word) actress, but her being cast in this role is distracting, particularly where there are so many dark skinned actresses who could have pulled this role one off brilliantly.

@Chasitie, this will be another flick I'll wait to see when it is available for streaming online ;)

 

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Troy I can't get past her voice or her look. I agree it's a distraction. Other than that it will be nice to see such an amazing artist gain a higher profile. I wish that Kimberly Elise, or better yet Anika Noni Rose would have been chosen for the role. I really can't get around her look, which sucks. Rose can sing, she actually could pull off the transformation and her body shape has the power that I associate with Nina Simone. What I mean by body shape is that Nina was not as fragile or small as Zoe at least in any picture of video I've seen of her. This has a world of potential but it was definitely a poor casting decision.

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Nina must be turning over in her grave. This casting is a travesty.  Xeon mentioned  award winner Viola Davis, the star of "How to Get Away with Murder" as being the ideal choice for this role.  I agree. Zoe is too tall and wiry.  I don't know whether Viola can sing but she could've lip synched to Nina's actual recordings, and just vamped for random snippets of her songs.  Nina's voice is not that hard to duplicate because playing the piano was her primary talent.  She was a song stylist who told a story rather than a vocalist who sung lyrics.

 

 

 

 

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This is just another example of the error Black Americans make by holding on to that "one drop" rule.

Zoe is an AfroLatina of Dominican and Puerto Rican lineage, but clearly her Caucasian and/or Native American genes are just as strong as her African genes.  Despite this, she still apparently considers herself Black.  Which in a way is about time because for decades AfroAmericans have been badgering and begging AfroLatinos to embrace their African ancestry and call themselves "Black".

But the fact is, many of our people (AfroAmericans and AfroLatinos) are NOT actually Black (genetically speaking), despite having African ancestry.   And while they may not have any malicious intent by insisting that mixed people are Black...infact most likey see it as a way to unite our people........still, this type of confusion can lead to many problems.
This one involving a mixed race actress who is CONSIDERED "Black" being given the role of a truly Black woman to play and having to wear make up to do it and "pass" is just ONE example.

Other examples are the tricks that many media and advertising agencies use by purposely picking AfroAmericans who look nearly White (but are still considered Black) and putting them in prominent positions so that the IMAGE remains White, but they can avoid charges of racism by pointing out that they have a "Black".

 

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I'm not sure Zoe considers herself "Black," many Dominicans do not.

I guess when Zoe is given an Academy Award nomination for her performance that will placate the negro masses.

Pioneer you realize there is no way to identify someone as Black based upon their genes. So sentences like the one below are confusing:

"But the fact is, many of our people (AfroAmericans and AfroLatinos) are NOT actually Black (genetically speaking), despite having African ancestry."

If an enslaved African has a son child with a native American is the child Black or Native American?  

If that son (1/2 Black 1/2 Indian) goes on to have a another son with a white woman is that child Black?  

If that son, the enslaved African's grandson has a son with a white woman, is that son Black?  Now this son, as you can image probably looks 100% white, but if you tested his DNA his y chromosome would point directly balck the his African great grandfather. 

 

 

 

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Troy

Pioneer you realize there is no way to identify someone as Black based upon their genes. So sentences like the one below are confusing:

"But the fact is, many of our people (AfroAmericans and AfroLatinos) are NOT actually Black (genetically speaking), despite having African ancestry."

If an enslaved African has a son child with a native American is the child Black or Native American?

If that son (1/2 Black 1/2 Indian) goes on to have a another son with a white woman is that child Black?

If that son, the enslaved African's grandson has a son with a white woman, is that son Black? Now this son, as you can image probably looks 100% white, but if you tested his DNA his y chromosome would point directly balck the his African great grandfather


Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology.
What I'm saying is, just because a person may be an AfroAmerican (American WITH African ancestry even if it's only a small amount) or an AfroLatino (Latino WITH African ancestry even if only a small amount), they still may not necessarily be BLACK racially speaking. 
For me atleast, a person's African ancestry has to be predominant to consider them Black.
Which is why I don't call President Obama "Black", but I do call him AfroAmerican.

So in keeping with the analogy you gave.....

The answer to the first question is NO.
They are mixed.....
"Zambo" I believe is the old term used to be for a bi-racial child of African and Native American parentage.

And that pretty much answers your next 2 questions, lol.

A person doesn't get to call themselves "Black" just because they have a Black ancestor because according to modern science EVERYONE'S ancestors were Black evolving out of Africa, so the line has to be drawn somewhere.

I know what I'm saying may SEEM divisive.
I know some may say this type of thinking may keep our people separated like Willie Lynch.
However the fact is, it's absolutely necessary that we begin thinking along these lines because the very survival of Black people may depend on it.
If we allow ANY and EVERYONE to call themselves Black, pretty soon you'll have blonde haired blue eyed people running around calling themselves Black and pointing to some distant relative to justify it.  Meanwhile you'll be searching hard to find ACTUAL Black people whom they've replaced.

 

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I hear you Pioneer1 but all culture are rife with example that contradict what you are saying.  For example:

Walter White, former head of the NAACP to you and I might be considered whit, but he said he was Black, and Black people embraced him as Black. If you can attend a Klan meeting without getting a beat down, you're white.  Walter White was able to do this. 

white.thumb.jpeg.71546a2270113458b6a57e7.

More famously Rachel Dolezal was able to rise to the presidency of a local chapter of the NAACP, all the while asserting her Blackness. 

rachel.jpg.2db683b4c18013393dcd5ed199f8a

Even Homer Plessy had 7 White great grand parents and was able to "pass" for white until someone who knew his background had him thrown out of the "whites" only car.  Whites in the area had to reconsider the law, for they knew if you looked far enough into their ancestry, you'd likely find a negro lurking in there.

Pioneer, I know a few blonde haired blue eyed of  "Black" people who could pass for white, but don't.  They consider themselves Black and so do I. They have Black ancestry and they choose to embrace it above all else.  They are culturally Black.  

So what you are saying does not "seem" divisive.  It is divisive by definition.

According to America's presumptive definition of "Blackness," Barack is "Black." But again this is arbitrary, for Obama with the same reasoning could say he is white.  Also I would actually consider Barack Obama more African than your garden variety African-American since his father was actually Kenyan. I don't even know how many generations I have to go back to find an African. But again being African does not mean you are racially "Black."

I have another question for you @Pioneer1.  What do we do will all this mixed "race" people running around here?  What racial category do we put them in?  Do you propose a 21st century Brown Bag test?  What do you do with people like Tiger woods that want to embrace the full diversity of their backgrounds?

 

 

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Walter White was often referred to as a "Voluntary Negro".  He was chosen as the face of the NAACP for fund raising purposes.  Rich white philanthropists felt more comfortable providing financial support for an organization with an official who looked like them.

As light-skinned Blacks used to respond to anyone who questioned their authenticity back in the 60s and 70s: "blackness is a state of mind". Whatever. To me, there was a certain vibe I picked up from the fair-skinned people I encountered who chose to identify themselves as black. They seemed secretly pleased by how much their choice surprised and impressed darker blacks. 

There's a very substantial community in America today who identify themselves as bi-racial .This is the term they prefer to be classified as, and there is a blank to check this choice on many applications included the Census form. "Zebras", what some bi-racials jokingly call themselves, apparently want to acknowledge the ancestry of both parents. Then there are those who simply refer to themselves as people of color. In any case, in this country, if you look black you are treated black.  If Tiger Woods wasn't a celebrity, he'd be just another brown skinned male who could very possibly be stopped for driving while black.

 

 

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While I think casting Nina was a horrendous decision, I'm definitely not hatin' on her for taking the role.  I guess she is not quite at the point where she can decline the paycheck that comes with a major role.

She obviously was aware of the justified criticism, and apparently takes it to heart given her responding to a stupid tweet.

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@Cynique, this is from the Biography website:

Walter Francis White was born in Atlanta, Georgia, on July 1, 1893. (Before he became president of the United States, William Henry Harrison fathered several children with one of his slaves. One of these children was Walter White's grandmother, making Harrison Walter White's great-grandfather.) In 1906, he was a witness to race riots in Atlanta, and saw his home come close to being destroyed. He only escaped the violence of the day because he was light-complexioned, with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Since one of Walter's Grandparents was and enslaved Black woman, which by the rule of the day and Pioneer's definition make him "Black."

It is just so crazy how President Harrison's serial rape an enslaved Black women was mentioned in the same fashion as Walter's birthday.  

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Why would anybody offer Zoe the role in the first place when there are so many black actresses who would've been more appropriate for the part.  I think  she actively pursued the role and because her name was big enough to get backers for the project, it went forward. At one time  Mary J, Blige was being touted for the role and people were rejecting her despite the fact that she is a singer and bore a slight resemblance to Nina. 

Walter White was a prominent figure during the Harlem Renaissance, and back then, anybody who was light enough to "pass" and didn't, was nicknamed a voluntary negro.  

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Troy

Bro you must be a mind-reader because I was JUST ABOUT to bring up
Rachel Dolezal as an example of how a White person can easily fool others into thinking they're Black as long as we hold on to this silly "one drop" garbage.
She was able to come among Black people and get a prominent position because she knew the love and respect so many of our people pathologically have for Whites or those who LOOK the closest to White.  And she also knew how easy it was for anyone to just CALL themselves "Black" regardless as to how they look and have that claim automatically accepted.

My words can't be divisive because I didn't create the division.
The division was already there. I just exposed it for what it is. Many very light skinned people would have passed for White if they could, and many did.  Many mixed people RELUCTANTLY accepted being called "Black" because White America historically didn't give them a choice until recently.

As far as bi-racial people are concerned. I consider them neither White nor Black.
They are BI-RACIAL...a mixture of both races.

No society gets to determine a person's race, just like society doesn't get to determine where a person is male or female.
Nature has done that already.

Mixed people are MIXED PEOPLE despite what society classifies them as.


Since one of Walter's Grandparents was and enslaved Black woman, which by the rule of the day and Pioneer's definition make him "Black."

Actually, my view is the opposite.
I'm not sure if I made it clear enough but I'm saying simply having a Black ancestor IS NOT enough to make one "Black".
I consider them AfroAmerican...but NOT BLACK.

AfroAmerican is an ethnicity and has more to do with culture.
But Blacks a RACIAL term and is about phenotype.


If simply having a Black ancestor....an African gene..was enough to make one Black then most Italians, Greeks, and Arabs would be considered Black.

 

 

 

 


Cynique

As light-skinned Blacks used to respond to anyone who questioned their authenticity back in the 60s and 70s: "blackness is a state of mind". Whatever. To me, there was a certain vibe I picked up from the fair-skinned people I encountered who chose to identify themselves as black. They seemed secretly pleased by how much their choice surprised and impressed darker blacks.

It didn't stop in the 70s, that attitude still prevails TODAY in many circles.
A lot of very light skinned AfroAmericans love being around other Black people because they are often treated like royalty. As if it's an honor for them to "come down" and be with the common folk.

I'm not very dark, nor very light but am "brown skinned" but I have friends of all shades and I've dated women of all shades.  Some light skinned women would openly diss darker ones around me and make fun of their complexion.   I've noticed for year that many lighter skinned AfroAmericans....especially those who grew up in the Black community....enjoy the attention they often get from Black people who may see them as more attractive and smarter.




So this is another reason why I don't call ALL AfroAmericans "Black".
Not only don't we all share the same racial traits, but many very light AfroAmericans haven't had the difficult social experiences that most truly Black people have had in this society.

 

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@Pioneer1 I'm not mind reader Rachel was just a popular recent example.

If I understand your logic regarding "race," then virtually all so called Black people in America would be Afro-American.  But extending your reasoning so would most white people.

If most so called "afro-americans" have some white ancestry, why would they not be "mixed race" too?  What racial bucket would Walter White go in, mIxed race or Afro-American, or is he both?

@Cynique regarding voluntary negro -- gotcha.  Your explanation for Zoe getting the role sounds more plausible. If that is the case then it sounds like either the movie gets made with Zoe in the role or not at all.  Which would you prefer?  

I'm inclined to pass on this film being made until we could get a Viola Davis in the role and, get the gun out of Nina's hand.

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Troy

If I understand your logic regarding "race," then virtually all so called Black people in America would be Afro-American.

Exactly.

I personally use the term "AfroAmerican" to distinguish us from African immigrants who become Americans and would more properly be called "African-American".



But extending your reasoning so would most white people.

Not really.
Because AfroAmerican is an ETHNIC GROUP.
Ethnicity is more complicated than race, it involves ancestry, language, food, social customs, ect...
Which is why Rachel Dolezal wouldn't be considered even AfroAmerican no matter how much she tried to adopt our culture. She doesn't have ancestry.

 

If most so called "afro-americans" have some white ancestry, why would they not be "mixed race" too?
This is true, and many are.
I wouldn't consider Beyonce Black, I'd consider her an AfroAmerican of mixed ancestry.
I wouldn't consider Will Smith Black, I'd consider him an AfroAmerican of mixed ancestry.

Now to you and I.....both these figures are BLACK.
We've grown up with people who look like them that called themselves Black and was accepted as Black, but to a Nigerian or Congolese who comes over to the United States and looks at them they would CLEARLY see the White in them.
Which is why a lot of Africans see "Black" Americans as not entirely their people.

But for most, despite the mix the African ancestry in AfroAmericans predominates and in my OPINION puts most of them over on the Black side.
For me, race is largely determined by which part of your ancestry predominates.
Like most AfroAmericans, I also have White and Native American ancestry...but the African ancestry predominates and so I consider myself Black.

 

 

What racial bucket would Walter White go in, mIxed race or Afro-American, or is he both?

Ethnically Walter would be considered an AfroAmerican because not only did he have African lineage but he also IDENTIFIED with that African lineage and socialized as an AfroAmerican.
But racially speaking, Walter White is a WHITE MAN.

He's not even "mixed".
I don't care if his mother was Blacker than Wesley Snipes, HE is White because his White ancestry clearly predominates.

 

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On 3/4/2016 at 3:21 PM, Troy said:

...  Your explanation for Zoe getting the role sounds more plausible. If that is the case then it sounds like either the movie gets made with Zoe in the role or not at all.  Which would you prefer?  

I'd have preferred Zoe not made her version at all.  There's already a documentary about Nina that just recently came out, and in it we get to see the real thing.  

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YES!  Cynique that should have been the first thing we mentioned.  I saw the documentary, What Happened, Miss Simone on Netflix sometime ago, and learned quite a bit. Nina's daughter was quite impressive.

I may just boycott the Zoe film altogether.

 

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On 2/10/2016 at 11:23 AM, CDBurns said:

Looks cool, but you didn't leave your personal website or more samples and information about you. Leave your website and information. Also on the Amazon page the description is one sentence and doesn't give any details about why I should buy the book. Just some observations. Good luck with this.

 

On 3/2/2016 at 0:28 PM, Troy said:

It is me, or does Zoe look like an actress performing in Blackface?

Why does EVERY single film trailer about a Black musician show them wielding a gun?  Whether it is the NWA film Straight Outta Compton or Miles Davis bio-pic, one would think Hollyweird believes this is the only way to attract an audience.

Zoe is a fine (in both senses of the word) actress, but her being cast in this role is distracting, particularly where there are so many dark skinned actresses who could have pulled this role one off brilliantly.

@Chasitie, this will be another flick I'll wait to see when it is available for streaming online ;)

 

LMAO!!!!!!!  Understood; I may or may not do the same.  I watched the documentary, which was really fantastic...I see no reason to see a film adaptation.  I think it is bad enough that the family does not support it.

Zoe is a great actress if you can get passed the make-up.  Sigh....I dunno; I think in this case, the controversy will outshine the story.

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I just posted Kam's review of Nina (2016)

nina-still.jpg

If anyone would like to share their feedback on the presentation of the film review please do so. What is missing?  Should the information be presented better?  I still have not designed a template for film reviews.

 

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I have not seen the film either.  The review does not move me to see the film either--at least not in the theater.

I would have expected Zoe to Lip-synch. No one would have expected her to sing well enough to mimic Nina Simone.

I was actually surprised to read that the African-American Film Critics Association the film their "Seal of Approval,"  I have not seen any justification for this honor.  Seems like a marketing ploy if you ask me.  I know it is a "Critics" Association, but in 2016 this would not be surprising 

NINA_AAFCA.jpg

When I get a press release I will share it here

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