MUHAMMED ALI DEAD..

[harry brown]

MUHAMMED ALI HAS DIED.THE GREATEST, HE  ONE OF SPORTS,BLACK. HISTORY GREATS.YOUNG  BLACK ATHLETES ARE AFRAID TO TAKE A STAND BLACK ,RACE ISSUES LIKE HE  AND JACKIE ROBINSON,ARTHUR ASHE DID...  

[Pioneer1]

Atleast our brother isn't suffering anymore.

When people are in the last stages of a debilating disease, sometimes it's best that they make that transition rather than continuing to "hold on".
Too often it's the family that keeps them when they are ready to go.

I was having a conversation about him with a doctor yesterday and we were talking about how he...like so many other boxers....took repeated blows to the head.
But Ali was especially famous for his "rope a dope" where he just took so much punishment in order to wear his opponent down.
Most of these boxers don't know that many of those blows give the brain "mini-concussions" that turn out to affect them later on in life.

I also believe all of the pain killers Ali and other professional atheletes take contributes to the neurological problems so many of them develop after their careers.
When there's millions of dollars and championships at stake, a lot of young people will readily put their health at risk and push past the pain with medications for a temporary boost not caring (or knowing) about the drastic effects it may have on them later on in life.

Concussion....the movie in which Will Smith played a doctorr who investigated brain injuries related to NFL players could have just as easily been done about boxers.

[Cynique]

Actually, it's been a running "joke" since way back in the 1920s, that boxers acquire "cauliflower ears" and end up being "punch drunk" from getting their brains beat out. 

I heard on the news that, although all of his other organs were shutting down, Ali's heart was still beating strong, and he was squeezing the hands of his loved ones,  until his wife whispered to him that it was OK to go...

[Pioneer1]

I remember years ago I was in the hospital for some routine tests and a man who was in his 80s came bouncing in my room calling me "school boy" and asking me was I ready to go fishing.
Now, this man was 80 something and I was in my 20s...lol.

Despite his age AND the fact that he was in socks and just a hospital gown, he spent, slid,  and dashed around my room with the agility and grace of a ballerina.

One of his loved ones finally tracked him down and came in to get him and explained that he was a boxer back in the day and was  senile, no doubt from so many licks he probably took upside the head.
When he was reminded of his boxing career he began to relate stories from back in the Depression and REALLY put on a show before they took him away !

I'm not suprised brother Muhammad's heart was still beating strong...as only a champion boxer's heart would.
These atheletes have bodies like MACHINES, it's a shame that so many of them end up ruining their brains and nervous systems with all the injuries and drugs...both legal and illegal.


On a more spiritual note.....
I used to think that people couldn't control the actual moment of death.
I figured you went when it was your time...not a moment sooner or later.
But time and time again I hear stories of people on their death beds who seem to have a "choice" when to call it quits and literally "give up the ghost".
If they aren't doing it at the nod of understanding family members.....
They're "holding on" until all of their loved ones arrive from out of town to say their last goodbyes.
Others "hold on" until they finish other business.

It's interesting how so many people seem to have control over their moment of departure.

[Pioneer1]

I guess my strong belief in God and the afterlife prevents me from feeling too sad about him making that transition.
Like my parents, I would like the people whom I love still here....but healthy and happy.
I wouldn't want them living a life debilitating pain and suffering.


As long as it's not FORCED, I actually support euthanasia for those who are seriously suffering and desire it for themselves.

Often times people who are terminally ill not only have to suffer physically from thier illness, but also the psychological torture of having to decide whether or not to kill themselves and whether or not they'll end up in hell for doing it.

In the news you frequently hear of people killing their own spouses out of frustration after seeing them suffer so much and not being able to ease their pain.

Ideally, a terminally ill person would be surrounded by family and friends to peacefully say there goodbyes and then a medical physician would administer something that would gentley put them to sleep, to a deep coma, and then to death.

[Cynique]

 Putting the survivors of a deceased person into categories serves no purpose.  Death is a fact of life. How it affects the living obviously depends on the role a dead person played in the lives of those he or she leaves behind.  

[Troy]

Pioneer what informs your belief in an afterlife?  Is it a specific religion?

[Cynique]

You did put survivors into categories including calling some of them "monsters" in your maudlin blubbering.     You're so addled brained your don't even realize what you're writing .  

[Cynique]

And the creature from the ghetto sewer a/k/a sarass continues to drool. 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

Pioneer what informs your belief in an afterlife? Is it a specific religion?

No.

My spiritual beliefs are based on personal spiritual experiences, information I've gotten from friends and family members older than me, and information I've gather from various books dealing with those types of subject.....most of which seem to corroborate eachother.

For example....
It's a known fact that when most people are dying a relatively slow death that may take hours or days....they typically see deceased family members who come to comfort them and also help them transition to the other side.
This was the case with my mother, other relatives, and many nurses and nursing assistants as well as others who've been around dying people have said the same thing.

[Troy]

@Pioneer1, have you ever considered that seeing past relatives is just one mind playing tricks on them?  Also the experience is not universal.  Why don't you hear stories of those about to be executed being visited by relatives to help them transition, or those who are about to die from an accident or heart attack?  Surely we don;t have to be dying a slow death for them to know we are about to transition, right?

Would you care to relate a personal spiritual experience?

This is a situation where the phrase, "playing the devil's advocate" seems particularly apropos 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

@Pioneer1, have you ever considered that seeing past relatives is just one mind playing tricks on them?

I have, as have many early researchers of the phenomena.....but the evidence that spans across periodic and cultural lines is too consistent and too overwhelming for this to be just some "mass hallucination" that so many people down through the annals of history have been experiencing as they lay on their death beds.
It's scientific to the point that because of prior knowledge of these things I expected my own mother to have them....and she did.
I can ask almost any nurse who has been around the dying certain things and they will confirm them as being true.

This knowledge...that dead loved ones come to assist you in the dying process....is WELL KNOWN in most traditional African and Native American religious systems.



Also the experience is not universal. Why don't you hear stories of those about to be executed being visited by relatives to help them transition, or those who are about to die from an accident or heart attack?

One could imagine how hard it would be for a dead body to tell you ANYTHING about what they experienced before they actually died....lol.
But as for those who either came close to death or actually DIED briefly but were brought back to life, there are millions in the United States alone.  And they too talk about seeing dead friends and family as well as having experienced other realms or other worlds.
I'll direct you to Dr Raymond Moody's work with near death experiences.
As well as Dr Melvin Morse and many others scientists who have been tracking those who have died or were near death and were resucitated to talk about what they've witnessed.



Would you care to relate a personal spiritual experience?

Not yet.
Not until I figure out a way to actually PROVE the experiences.
A personal experience is usually only proof to the person who had it, especially experiences that are spiritual in nature and tend not to leave too much physical evidence.

What I will suggest though, as EVIDENCE for you is to ask someone of sound mind that you trust in your own circle be they friends or family members who have been around the dying and ASK THEM....and see how many smile at you and tell you the same thing I just told you....lol.

You'd be suprised  at people you could have known for 30 or 40 years who would have never mentioned it until you asked them.

[Cynique]

And after these dying people are visited by those who have gone on ahead and who presumably will escort them through the valley of the shadow of death, - where is it they are going?   Do you really think there is a judgment day and a heaven and hell?

I don't necessary think that death is final.  I prefer to believe it is a gateway into another level of existence.      

[Troy]

Pioneer just because a countless people experience something, does not make it reality.  You may recall all the descriptions of near death experiences of people who see a bright light, these perceptions can be explained and have been replicated in the laboratory.

What do you think about all of the experiences we have when we dream?  Do you think they are real too?  Do you ascribe meaning to dreams as well?  Some people believe they can use used to tell the future.

Maybe people close to death are having a dream, in which they see loved ones.  I have heard these stories too, but again that does not mean that those love ones were actually present, or that the ones close to death can now perceive things healthy people can not--i'd think as one draws closer to death they would actually perceive less as their body breaks down...

Maybe the comforting visits by loved ones is our bodies natural reaction to ease the transition to death.  A biological adaptation to prevent the mortally ill from being a drag on the community longer than necessary.

Besides, it just does not seem likely that on a spiritual plane that we would retain the same identities we have on earth where we are limited by a our physical bodies.  

I would not worry about you trying to "prove" you spiritual experiences, you can't prove these thing.  I just think it would be interesting to read.

Maybe I'd share a spiritual experience to two of my own ;-)

[Pioneer1]

Cynique

And after these dying people are visited by those who have gone on ahead and who presumably will escort them through the valley of the shadow of death, - where is it they are going? Do you really think there is a judgment day and a heaven and hell?

I don't know about heaven or hell in it's traditional sense, much of the details of that belief comes from religious dogma.
But I definately believe there are other realms of realities that people go to when they transition from this one and I believe those realms offer rewards.

 

I don't necessary think that death is final. I prefer to believe it is a gateway into another level of existence.

Exactly.
 

 

Troy

There are a lot of "maybes" in your post...lol.
But the evidence from all over the world and through out history is too consistent and too overwhelming for this all to be mass hallucinations and dreams or the brains way of "coping" with trauma.

Scientists tell us that the brain shuts completely down when the heart stops beating beyond 5 minutes and there is no sign of brain activity to even cause hallucinations, dreams, or anything else of a cerebaral nature...yet these people STILL have these spiritual experiences during their "death" state before being revived to talk about them.

I actually DO believe that many if not most forms of dreaming is spiritual in nature and involves entering other realms though I'm not sure how much of it is.
Many Native American traditionalists believe that the higher spiritual realms can be accessed THROUGH the dream realm.

And btw I'd LOVE to hear some of your spiritual experiences!