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Leslie Jones Victimized by Racist Trolls on Twitter


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This topic was spawned from a conversation where I argue against the popular narrative that Black women have Power as a result of their outsized use of Twitter.  The treatment of Jones is yet another example of why I say excessive use of Twitter by Black women is not an example of power.

Now Jack Dorsey (someone who actually has power), came to Leslie's defense.  But Leslie is one celebrity.  What about the countless other Black girls harassed on Twitter? Who is coming to their rescue or even thinking about defending them?  I can tell you how many videos and pictures I've seen on Twitter making fun of Black women.  

But Leslie's problem did not start with Twitter...

The first time I saw Leslie was at a Katt Williams concert, she was one of the opening acts.  This must have been at least 10 years ago,  I had not heard of Jones before Katt's concert, but I never forgot her because her routine was funnier than Katt Williams' that night. Leslie has talent.

But it pains me to watch Leslie throw herself at white men who reject her with revulsion--just for laughs.  Jones' line, "You want my number?"  in the Allstate commercial will probably become a catchphrase.  To me it just exaggerates the undesirability of Black woman.  It is not funny to me at all.

But of course white men find this funny, and that is all that matters.  The reaction on Twitter is not the cause of the problem it is a reflection of it.  White men control how we are portrayed.  Reinforecing the hyper-sexuality of Black women is not only funny to them it is lucrative.

Now I know Leslie has gained a lot of fame and fortune as a result of this.  People will argue Jones is rich, and that is better than being a struggling comedian.  Maybe it is, at least for Jones... I dunno.  

But I believe Leslie is happy with all of this, for she feeds into this persona herself as shown in a tweet from earlier today:


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I don't find Leslie funny in general.  She's unimpressive in any role other than that of a loud, animated, desperate black woman.  Her persona is over the top and not that humorous.  She's the antithesis of the cool, feminine Kerry Washington who represents the epitome of poise and intelligence in her role on the TV show "Scandal". Sadly,  the only difference between these 2 characters is that Leslie is like the field nigga who Massa sneaks out to the slave quarters to be with and Kerry is like the house nigga servant and secret mistress of Massa.   And so it goes...

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I'm sure some people will not like what I'm about to say but.......

Leslie isn't catching hell because she's a Black woman.
Her problem is she's not a very attractive woman anyway, and her masculine loud and obnoxious behavior just adds to the animosity that many people have toward her.
But because she's a Black woman she's using racism to explain away why so many men criticize her.

Yes there's been a few ape and gorilla remarks and perhaps it is racial, but plenty of unattractive White women are compared to pigs and other animals by the cruel and immature.  But they can't say it's because society does not appreciate the "beauty of White women"....they have to just deal with it.

Unattractive women tend to just catch it regardless of their color.  It's not necessarily a racial thing but a sexist and patriarchal thing where women are still judged more by their looks than anything else.

I think she's too "manish" or masculine personally, and it seems this type of Black woman is being promoted in some circles as if that's supposed to be a good thing.
Too many of our girls aren't being taught how to be "ladies".
They're just being allowed to grow up with no culture or role to attain.
Perhaps that's a good thing, but if you're trying to attract men who by nature seek a feminine balance in their women...it's counter-productive.
Masculinity is good for MEN, I don't think it's very good for women unless you're trying to attract another woman.



Now I've seen pictures of Leslie made-up and in revealing clothes smiling, and she can be quite appealing when she wants to. But as Cynique points out her overbearing obnoxious attitude really puts her over the top.

Cynique brought up a good point about Kerry Washington as she was one of the first women who came to my mind as an example of a beautiful well behaved Black "lady" as opposed to a loud mouthed trampish woman.
And there are plenty of other beautiful Black women of all shades who know how to act.
Leslie in no way represents Black beauty.



I touched on this subject a little while back when we were talking about young Black girls who think they're ugly.
We need to stop telling Black women and Black girls that they are beautiful REGARDLESS as to how they look or act....because it will definately cause more harm than good.

You don't tell a bunch of 400 pound 8th grade girls with acne how "beautiful" they are and if the world doesn't see it then that's "their problem".
You're setting them up for failure and confusion in life.

Am I saying you call them ugly and degrade them?
Hell no.
But we as Black people need to have our own standards of beauty and maintain them and TEACH our young men and women HOW to attain beauty by eating right, exercising, avoiding self destructive habits, and most of all CARRYING themselves in a proper manner.

I'd love for Black women in Hollywood to step up on this one and let the world know that no matter how cruel they may have been to Leslie, she in no way represents "Black female beauty" so don't even go there.

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It's too bad that the double standard comes into play here.  Because loud burly black men are not subjected to as much scrutiny or criticism as bodacious black women, and while black women are expected to be demure ladies, nobody calls out black dudes for not being more gentlemanly.

Leslie seems like a decent enough person, and she is entitled to comport herself any way she chooses.  But she should be aware that in this cruel world her type will be a magnet for insults and rejection.   As much as  people like to prate that beauty is only skin deep, it's still what initially attracts men, and the standards of beauty in this country are more westernized than African.  

Some black females, however,  do need to step back and take a look at themselves.  i was nonplussed when my 11-year old great-grandson said that at his school, the black guys all like the Hispanic girls cuz the black ones are too loud and ghetto and - "ugly"   What a shame.  I heard this once before from my 19-year old grandson.  Another grandson  dated a Hispanic girl for a couple of years and after they broke up he found himself a sista who is an attractive, polished professional black woman, and she considered herself the lucky one to have found a catch like him. Go figure. The black race is really mixed up - in more ways than one  And the beat goes on; like a jungle drum.        

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Beauty is truly only skin deep.  

For all we know Kerry can be truly ugly and Leslie can indeed be beautiful.  But I guess that depends upon how one defines "beauty."

If we define beauty solely by northern european standards physical standards (tall, slim, blonde, blue eyed) then @Pioneer1, I have news for you; very few Black people are "beautiful" by that definition. 

When I was really young, I discovered that if I got to know someone, I might discover their beauty.  There are some people we call ugly because they look like Leslie, but I'm telling you if got to know them and discovered their beauty, their physical characteristics would become less important.  In fact they might become more physically attractive to you.  

The world becomes a more rich place if we look at people beyond their physical characteristics.  Otherwise we have a shallow experience.

But I know our celebrity culture, with our european standard of beauty is very shallow.  But we don't prepare young children for the world by telling them are not beautiful, thereby reinforcing the shallow cultural norms.  We help them discover and appreciate their beauty, because that is the only defence we have against the shallow culture we live in.

I'm not sure why Leslie was so hurt by the comments. They are so easily ignored.  She should have simply stopped using Twitter, or blocked the comments. As a celebrity, she better develope some thicker skin in a hurry--especially if she is gonna continue with the rugged-aggressive-sex-crazed-lusting-after-white-men persona.

The racist comments will never stop.  Trolls are relentless, and I speak from experience.

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@TroyWell,from pictures of your light-skinned, attractive wife, we have to wonder whether her looks initially attracted you before you came to recognize her inner beauty, which presumably would've inspired you to marry her even if she looked liked Leslie.  ;)

And, tall slim, blue-eyed blonds are not the only standard of beauty in this country.  Dark eyed, golden skinned brunettes with voluptuous figures are regarded as desirable, too; just ask Kanye West. Statuesque, dark-skinned women with a regal bearing and exotic features are also considered "stunning".  

"Cuteness" knows no race or ethnicity.  It is found in all women possessing a universal symmetry known as the golden triangle, wherein the facial features in a round face are arranged in a certain way that involve large, slighted-slanted wide-set eyes, curvaceous lips and a button nose.

It's easy to advise people to ignore the slings and arrows hurled at them on a public forum, but it's kinda like telling someone to ignore bullets fired at them on the street.  The injuries afflicted should be addressed, whether with first aid or retaliation.

Let's get real! Civility is losing its place in this country and is becoming equated with political correctness, which is why Donald Trump has so many supporters. The word "utopia" is a name given to a perfect, ideal society; the opposite of this is "dystopia" which is what America has degenerated into and is why Trump may very well become the next POTUS.  



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Without divulging too much about my personal life it was not my wife's looks that first attracted me to her.  If I went on looks I would have gone for a petite brown skinned woman, which was basically all I dates.  I was attracted to her because she is easy going, smart, athletic, down-to-earth, friendly, funny, generous and caring.  Now I will admit over the years she has maintained both her appearance and physique, relative to her peers, but that is a fortunate bonus, not something I considered when marrying her.

Of course I'll agree that there are different standards of beauty, but it also sounds like you are suggesting that our girl Leslie is objectively ugly. Again, for all the points I mentioned Leslie could be considered very beautiful.  Indeed I suspect her wealth has raised her profile among potential mates :wub:

Image the brother who was willing to look past Leslie's exterior and see the funny, driven, goal oriented women destined for wealth and fame.  The'y be sitting pretty right about now huh?  Shoot maybe if she had a loving Brother at home she'd be less likely to play the role she plays now...

I'm not about to debate a point premised on equating bullets with insults.  Besides I did not say nothing shouldn't be done--Trolls must be stopped.  I'm saying she better learn not to take what folks say personally, otherwise she is in store for a world of hurt.

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Leslie looks nice when she dresses up.  It doesn't matter what I think, however. I'm not a man - which I presume is what she's trying to attract.  She's 6 ft tall without heels, and I think her height may discourage men shorter than her as much as anything.

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Yeah I'm 5' 7" so I'd rule her out on that basis.  But I freely admit this is shallow on my part.  I've been brainwashed to believe women should not be substantially taller than their male partners.  But again this is my loss...

Fortunately there are plenty of taller brothers, and short Brothers far deeper than I, for Leslie to choose from.

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I don't say this much but, we need to stop using "racism" as an excuse to explain away every act of negativity experienced by Black people from outside.
Sometimes the negativity is justified and at other times even when it's NOT justified it has little to nothing to do with the actual race of the victim.



I'm glad you agree.
We need to maintain our own standards of beauty.....but we do need standards.

BTW, I don't think she's funny either.
I think she's obnoxious.
I try not to be sexist and pick on her behavior when a lot of male comics act the same way but what really offends me is how she likes to cloak herself in some sort of "Black womanhood" cape as if how she looks and acts is the avatar for Black American femininity.


It's too bad that the double standard comes into play here. Because loud burly black men are not subjected to as much scrutiny or criticism as bodacious black women, and while black women are expected to be demure ladies, nobody calls out black dudes for not being more gentlemanly.

There is indeed a double standard, but it's not unwarranted.
Ofcourse loud burly men aren't scrutinized because being loud and aggressive are masculine traits.
In a more natural setting (and some urban settings) a big loud aggressive man is seen as a protector......a defender of the family or neighborhood.

What can a loud burly woman do besides get herself and everyone around her killed for saying too much of the wrong things to the wrong people....lol.
Or get laughed at and made fun of embarrassing her family.

Women can't look or act like men and get treated the same, just like a man can't look or act like a woman and expect people to accept him the same.
It goes against the very basics of human nature.



"Cuteness" knows no race or ethnicity. It is found in all women possessing a universal symmetry known as the golden triangle, wherein the facial features in a round face are arranged in a certain way that involve large, slighted-slanted wide-set eyes, curvaceous lips and a button nose

This is true.
Rather than "cuteness" I prefer to use the word "attractiveness" which is biological as opposed to "beautiful" which is mostly based on cultural standards.

Nice smooth skin, soft features, nice teeth, and a slim but well curved body are features that make a woman ATTRACTIVE regardless of race or culture.
Smooth skin, thick hair, and a slim muscular body is seen as attractive for men regardless of race or nationality.

Where as in one culture long blond hair is considered "beautiful" and in other cultures tribal scars are considered beautiful and in yet another a very large butt is considered beautiful.

But attractive features are universal and we just can't make it any other way.


For all we know Kerry can be truly ugly and Leslie can indeed be beautiful. But I guess that depends upon how one defines "beauty."

If we define beauty solely by northern european standards physical standards (tall, slim, blonde, blue eyed) then @Pioneer1, I have news for you; very few Black people are "beautiful" by that definition

But I'm not using European standards of beauty, I'm using UNIVERSAL MALE standards of beauty!

Whether you go to Africa, Europe, South America, the Australian bush....all straight men look for certain traits in women that they deem as attractive that have nothing to do with race.

Most men like women with delicate small features relative to their facial size, smooth skin, smaller bone structure, big eyes, light voices, and a mild and often times meek attitude.
Leslie possesses few of these traits.

If people think Leslie was called an ape or gorilla simply because she's a Black woman then look at women like Lauryn Hill, or
Lupita Nyong'o....

Image result for lauryn hill    lupita-nyong-o-inaugural-image-maker-awa

These women are both dark skinned and have kinky hair and are among the most beautiful women in the world.
.....have you heard any reports of THEM being called "ape" or "gorilla"???

Any reports of Kerry Washington being called a monkey or baboon?

Let's keep it real, Leslie's treatment isn't because people can't appreciate her "beauty", it's just that she isn't what most men of ANY race consider attractive and her attitude makes it even worse.

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@Pioneer1, I understand what you are saying.  But there is so much more to a woman's attractiveness than her physical characteristics.  

Here is a simple question for you.  Would you rather be married to Lupita Nyong'o (who you have pictured above) or Leslie.  Now before you answer I'd like to add a couple of additional parameters. Lets assume the following

  1. Ignore, for this exercise, both women's professions, wealth, and celebrity status--just assume it does not exist  
  2. Lupita is terrible in bed. Worse, she doesn't even like sex
  3. Lupita is dumb as a door nail, you are embarrassed to bring her around friends and family.  She is frustrating to talk to because she grasps so little.
  4. Leslie is brilliant, a tremendous conversationalist, others seek her council, and she is always coming up with great ways to make money
  5. Leslie is far an away the best lover you ever had, each time is better than the last

Now tell me Brother who would you prefer to marry? Also, in this scenario, would you consider Leslie a beautiful person?

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That's a lot of hypotheticals.

That's like asking,
If you had a choice between being a slave who was well fed, well clothed, had the kindest master in the world, who never harmed you --or being a free man who was broke, hungry, living in the woods, and constantly on the run from slave traders who were trying to enslave you........which would you choose, slavery or freedom?

Even in the hypothetical scenario you laid out above between the two women, it would be hard for me to choose Leslie because you neglected to include the gender qualifiers of beauty and femininity and they are the main traits that make a woman attractive to the opposite sex.

Femininity and beauty go a long way.
Even with the description you gave, to me Lupita looks more beautiful and more feminine and those particular traits COMPEL me to incline toward her over a more masculine and domineering Leslie despite her intellectual and social graces.

The sexual aspect aside, I have plenty of MALE associates who are brilliant, know how to make money, and are great conversationalists to kick it with.....but I'm not trying to get with them.
Because I'm not attracted to masculinity.

Again, it's not JUST the way Leslie looks that I find unattractive...though she's not the best looking sista in the world. But I probably could even get past that IF she had a nice mild feminine attitude instead of being so "manish" and obnoxious as if she can FORCE people into accepting her as attractive.

I want to feel sorry for her and what she's been going through, but part of me says when a woman carries herself in such a pushy and negatively stereotypical way....she needs to have a little sense cyber slapped into her. I just wish it was done by other Black women instead of racist White trolls who are just using this as an excuse to cloak their racism.


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Yes, my question was very similar to yours regarding slavery, but the answer to that one is easy.  Most people would, and to this very day, pick slavery.  Being a slave even without the benevolent master is easy.  Freedom is hard.

@Pioneer1, all I'm trying to get you to do is a appreciate the fact that Leslie (all of us really) is much more than her physical appearance.  But since you dodged my question, I assume you understand what I'm saying but refuse to concede the point. ;)

Also, we don't know what Leslie is like in person, she might be very sweet, in the stereotypical feminine way that is important to you.  

Finally many men find Lupita flat-chested boyish physique more of a turn off that Leslie's.  


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I understand your position clearly.
I already recognize that there is more to making a woman appealing than just her looks.

Many people think Serena Williams looks better than her sister Venus (I don't) but when it comes to cuffing her up and making her "wifey".....I and most of the brothers I know would take Venus in a heart beat OVER Serena because of her milder and a more shy personality which most find very feminine and more agreeable.

But your point about personality is a MOOT one in this case because we KNOW what Leslie's personality is like...and it's not sweet.
If you notice, Leslie's ATTITUDE....not her looks....have been the main focal point of my criticizm of her. So there is no need for hypotheticals and "what if's" in this case because I have enough facts to come to a sound conclusion regarding her over-all attractiveness IN MY OPINION.

Add to that the fact that she routinely disgraces the Black community in general and Black women in particular on  a weely basis with her obnoxious and almost hyper-masculine behavior broadcasting and re-enforcing negative stereotypes that so many around the world have about AfroAmerican women......




....and I'd say she must be auditioning for "Queen Coon of the Year" to the best of her abilities.

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Oh OK, I did not realize that you knew Leslie Pioneer.  You see I've never met her and all I know about her is the characters she portrays.  I also figured that since she was acting, the characters she portrays has nothing to do with her real-life personality.  But since you obviously know her, I defer to you.

That was a funny skit :lol:

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That satirical skit was funny.  And, I don't think anybody has to justify their preferences when it comes to a mate. The old adage of beauty only being skin deep was probably made up by an ugly person.  Furthermore, some people are comfortable with dumb mates because it makes them look and feel smart.   Different strokes for different folks.

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That skit was very funny and interestingly enough would have never been done just a few years ago as SNL didn't have any black women. Kennan actually had to hold his own personal boycott against wearing another dress in a skit which forced SNL to find Black actresses.

I haven't weighed in on this very much. First I think Leslie doesn't look bad when she's made up. I also think her character or the roles she plays are entertaining. What I've always had a problem with is Black folks and their inability to allow Black actors/actresses to play the roles that are available to them while they wait for the characters that could be more thought provoking and challenging. It's very hard to get work as a Black performer and when a woman gets a chance to be in the not ready for primetime crew that has launched the careers of a number of Black entertainers then she should take it. I don't think she demeans or perpetuates anything. People are going to think what they want whether she plays these roles or she doesn't.

Since this is about her looks, she is boisterous and loud. I think she can be attractive if she wants to be just like I always thought Whoopi Goldberg could be attractive and was in some instances. Then again, I was one of the few people who thought Grace Jones was stunning, just as much as I think Halle Berry is stunning. I have friends who wouldn't date dark skinned women at all. I think guys who focus on certain looks as beautiful are guys that have the ability to focus on certain looks. I never thought of myself as a catch so I was always more open to women who weren't stereotypically beautiful and I think this whole conversation has missed my voice. Although Troy did make the statement that beauty is only skin deep. I agree with him, but I guess I would add that it is really that way for guys who don't feel that they can "pull" a woman that looks like the "ideal" beauty.

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You all thought it was funny but I actually didn't find the skit funny in the least.

I sort of took offense to it's demoralizing portrayl of urban Black women.
The  image Leslie seems to be an expert at potraying.
Which is probably why she was hired by SNL in the first place.

My little analysis of the skit was......

Here you got a White man who plays an "intelligent well spoken man" but has to pretend to talk like an uncouth ghetto Black woman (althought it's not actually called that)...just to keep his job.

I was just waiting and waiting....because I knew it was coming....when Leslie's character was going to utter something racist just to give the audience the impression that urban Black people are not only rude and ghetto but racist against Whites...therefore justifying the racism that is practiced against them in REAL LIFE.  And like clockwork-right at the end she has to mention his race and call him a "White so-n-so".

Why did the writers feel the need to inject race into this skit which would have been just as "funny" without any racial remarks?
And why did they choose...as SNL USUALLY DOES...to make the Black person the racist??

On top of the racial and cultural stereotypes,
Leslie is portrayed as a verbally abusing boss who doesn't know how to speak to her employees, again.....which will subconciously justify the racist and unreasonable behavior of some White managers toward THEIR Black employees in REAL LIFE.

People must understand that Leslie's behavior acts like a REVERSE catharsis, sort of like the original Birth of a Nation movie.
Instead of giving racists an outlet for thier own racism by seeing it on television, it actually acts as a JUSTIFICATION by providing made up false scenarios that they can subconsciously point to and say, "Well look...they're rude, ghetto, and even racist themselves so I'm just given them a taste of their own medicine!".






This has nothing to do with Leslie's skin color.
There are women much darker than her....like Naomi Campbell and Lauryn Hill....who are very beautiful.

Also, I'm not the best looking brother in the world myself so I'm not beating up on Leslie because of the way she LOOKS.

(although I must say that one of the tricks I've observed in the media is that many Whites love to contrast themselves with Black people in the way of taking an attractive White woman and featuring them in the same movie with an unattractive Black woman; or taking a wealthy intelligent White man and pair him with a broke ass idiotic Black man to give the audience an impression of White superiority)

It's all about Leslies loud and manish behavior that makes her such a turn off.
No, she's not the most attractive person....but she's not deformed or hideous either.
If she'd just doll herself up and act like a lady both on and off camera, she wouldn't have so many problems.



Grace Jones ????
Come on brother....that woman is scary!

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@Pioneer1  Sometimes things elicit chuckles because they are just comical.   The skit was not slapstick, or corny, it was a lampoon.  Does race always have to be injected into everything?   Pushing the envelop about controversial issues is SNL's specialty and they spare no ethnicity.

As for Hollywood casting attractive white female movie stars against unattractive black ones, puleeze. With a few exceptions like Whoopi and Leslie and Gabourey Sidibe (Precious), there are no unattractive black movie actresses.These women   make it into the movies because their looks have appeal.Only in all-black movies do homely black character actresses appear.  

In this day and age, the average black person has figured out that black images are manipulated by a media that reeks with negative subliminal messages. But there are always people standing around pointing this out, underestimating the intelligence of other black people who have enough common sense to discern this for themselves. Recognizing the ulterior motives of white people is in the DNA of black people dating back to slavery when they rolled their eyes at their clueless white masters.  But then as now, they lack the power to deter racism.

Leslie has chosen to capitalize off her boisterous black woman character just like white women capitalize off the dumb blond stereotype, and Mexican women do the same with the fiery Hispanic drama queen. That's show biz.   And life.  


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Yes, I really believe that many Black people DON'T have enough sense to know when someone is subliminally making fun of them and being psychologically racist....so it must be pointed out.
They must be educated on it or they will continue to be taken advantage of.

Some people don't like it when I say that most Black people either can not or will not achieve college degrees so we should focus more on skilled trades and small businesses.
But I believe it's the truth either it sounds sweet to the ears or not.

AfroAmericans are in a vulnerable condition in this nation and we can't afford to assume

As far as the stereotypical roles of Black women.....

A) Sure there are a lot of attractive Black women in Hollywood, but like I said they aren't usually paired WITH White women. Most White women have enough pride and sense not to let herself be portrayed as inferior by being paired next to a better looking Black woman.
But many Black women see no shame in acting right next to a White woman who may be considered more attractive.....they feel no embarassment by it because so many have been taught to see themselves in the inferior role anyway.

B) The difference between the stereotypical roles that White and most Latina women play and those Black women play is the "dumb blonde" and "Latina spit-fire" roles still grant the White and Latina woman her sense of womanhood and femininity. Those roles still make them look "cute" and lady like....where as the ghetto tramp and hoodrat roles so many of our sisters play takes away their femininity and makes them look like freakish "he/shes" who's very gender is questionable.
Just like Hollywood has a history of raising questions about Black men's manhood, they tend to raise the same questions about the Black woman's womanhood.

And again, many of our people....I believe...do not have enough psychoanalytical knowledge to pick up on this, so it MUST be pointed out.

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in other words, there are a lot of "dumb niggas" out there.  OK, if you say so.  I tend to believe that black        people recognize how the media manipulates black images, but since they identify with the caricatures, they opt for being entertained rather than being enlightened.  

I'm curious. Do you visit social media sites? You can learn a lot about the black mentality on them. You can also observe how bad blacks  talk about the white media.   

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Interesting conversation.  Cynique I agree with @Pioneer1, I don't think most Black people, indeed people in general, understand how much and how easily they are manipulated.  Yes there are a lot of "dumb niggas" out there, from time to time I fall into the category :o

But you put your finger on it @Cynique, most people would be entertained than enlighten.  In fact engaging folks in an entertaining way is a good way to enlighten them. But the reality is most of are entertainment is vacuous, while our enlightenment/education is banal, so yes there are a lot of dumb folks out there...

Cynique I'd also be careful about using social media as a gauge of how people, in general, feel about anything.  Social media create filters which present you with the opinions and ideas most likely to keep you engaged, and for most of us this is stuff that we agree, mindlessly entertain you, or vivaciously peek in on others. Potting you finger on the pulse of the Black community it is not... I think it is the primary reason why some folks can't wrap their heads around why anyone would support Trump.  They consume the same biased social media fueled sources of information.  But I digress...

Look while folks have they rude and obnoxious counterparts Melissa McCarthy (starred in brides maids), is basically John Belushi in drag, but white folks don;t get all riles up about her characters, because whites actresses get such a wide variety of diverse roles McCarthy roles don't matter.

Because our roles are so limited we run the real risk of being stereotyped in the minds of white folks. 

The real solution to this is not to put Leslie out of work, but to create more diverse roles for Black actresses, but until we become less dependent upon white folks for gigs this will never happen. So there will never be a shortage, rapper, slave, maid, gangster, and dysfunctional ghetto dweller roles for less than stunning, large dark-skinned Black women.

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@TroyOK, guys.  I guess I must hang around with smart people, because everybody i know is aware that the media is manipulative and racially biased.  In fact, the only thing black people attribute all their woes to more than Racism, is: THE MEDIA - who they blame for almost EVERYTHING. So they can't be but so unaware of how it operates.  

And I'm assuming, Troy,  that since you have no use for FaceBook,  you don't frequent its domain that much. But it really is a reflection of all facets of black life, with  the religious folks offering prayers and the proud parents posting pictures and single women posting selfies and armchair deejay posting music and grieving families posting obituaries, and sports nuts making predictions and old class mates hooking up and old adversaries circling each other and people from all walks of life discussing this upcoming election. Do black people inflate their images on FaceBook? Could be, but the whole panorama unfolds within the context of the black mystique.  And when it comes to current events, I don't think they fake the opinions they vent.     

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Yes Cynique, you hang around smart people...  

But look at it this way, the stuff you see posted on Facebook is, by its very nature, biased.  The majority of people who have accounts don't post, and of those that post the information is filtered by the people doing the posting.  Then Facebook's algorithm determines the content that you see.  Are you beginning to see how these multiple funnels skew things?

Despite the hype from Facebook the majority of Americans are not posting on Facebook, so how can it be representative of what the general population thinks? 

Now Facebook itself has a better indication because they know what you look at--even if you don't comment, they capture the text you type--even if you decide not to submit it, and they capture everything, so they have a better perspective of what people are like, but again the data is only a reflection of the people using the system...

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Troy & Cynique

There are millions of dumb people out there PERIOD, who don't have enough intelligence to properly discern the information they're taking in.
Those who run the media KNOW this and constantly take advantage of it.

Why do you think smoking cigarettes is so popular?
The first time people try cigarettes they start coughing and gagging....they hate it.  But the media has made it seem like the "cool" or "rebel" thing to do and most smokers were dumb enough to fall for it.  Or dumb enough to let peer pressure force them into doing something they personally disliked.
And they to keep doing it until they are physiologically addicted.

Speaking of peer pressure, don't underestimate the mob mentality.
A lot of people who are ordinarily smart will still TRY to play stupid just to fit in with their friends who are less intelligent but they still hold in high regard.  I've seen plenty of smart people act stupid thinking it was "cool".

But more to this subject......
One of the biggest problems I've found among very smart people in general whether they're highly educated or just gifted in a lot of mother-wit is they continue to make the mistake in assuming that everyone is as smart as they are or can pick up on things as easily as them.
If I go before a city council or a county or state board....most of these bodies are made up of lawyers or highly educated professionals. I constantly remind them that when they sit around discussing various laws to make....be sure to make them simple enough so that those on the lower end of average intelligence can easily understand them.

Just because you and those you hang around think a certain way or would never fall for something, doesn't mean others will be able to think so clearly.

Growing up, it was amazing to see how easily so many slow and half-crazy Black people willingly allowed themselves to be taken advantage of for entertainment purposes by White people whether they were teachers at school or at work.
They played class clown for the teachers amusement or they'd come to work telling all types of stories about how they lived in the 'hood and ghetto life and tell their White co-workers who would look at them and smirk then talk about how stupid they were when they were gone.
They saw little shame in their stupidity.
The only people embarrassed were the other more intelligent Black people.

Republicans KNOW how dumb the average American is and they constantly play on their stupidity with irrational lies and emotionalism.
Democrats, liberals, and just thinking people in general stand around scratching their heads as to why so many people still support them against their very own interests.......because they make the mistake of believing everyone has the power to think for themselves.


Not to divert the thread with a long rant but to answer your question Cynique, I don't frequent social media much.
I only go on facebook when I have to such as promoting an event or being interviewed, and I don't do twitter at all.
It's not so much of a protest, I just don't find it interesting.
I don't see the point in it.

I see the point in using drugs, going to prostitutes, gambling, overeating ect.....lol.
They may be vices, but atleast they provide physical pleasure.
What do you get out of posting all of your pictures on facebook and going back and forth with people over foolishness.

Websites like THIS I love because I can have intelligent exchanges with people at my pleasure.
But Instagram?????






When I made my statement about a lot of people not liking my position concerning Black people and academia, that thread you refered to was actually the furthest thing from my mind.
I was speaking from years of experience dealing with Black people who mistakenly believe that "education" (specifically formal academic education) will solve all of our problems.
Whether it will or not is not the point, the point is MOST people will not be able to get a college education for one reason or another anyway, so that shouldn't be the goal or some standard of "normal".

It's called HIGHER education for a reason....because most people shouldn't be able to attain it.

As for Black people being workers and peasants without higher education.
I live in southeast Michigan where there are close to a million people of Middle Eastern descent.
The vast majority of those men.....DO NOT have a college education.
Infact, many of them came to America without the equivalent of a high school diploma, and many of the boys who are born and raised IN the United States end up getting kicked out of school for disciplinary problems.

.....yet they own more businesses per capita than Whites, Blacks, and Latinos put together.
They also own more businesses per capita than Asians, most of whom are highly educated.

They make BIG MONEY....why?
Because they have their OWN businesses with their OWN networks.
They aren't worried about being peasants, serfs, and slaves in another man's kingdom because they are too busy building their OWN.

When they DO go to school, it's not to work in a White institution but to help another Arab/Chaldean institution that needs their skill.

If more Black people would focus on skilled trades, owning their own businesses, and even using the higher education they DO receive to build up their OWN communities instead of educating themselves in order to get a better position in somebody else's.....we would make far more progress.

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Cynique, one's own personal filter, though important, is a completely different issue that what I've described; read up on filter bubbles.  

Pioneer I agree with most of what you've written, but I do get the appeal of social media.  While I no longer use social media for anything other than sharing links to AALBC.com, I definitely get the appeal.  It can be a massive ego stroke. I stopped using it because I don't like being manipulated.  The promoting to wish someone a happy birthday, the promoting to share old photos, and even the guilt of not doing it--everything is all designed to keep you engaged get you to use their system--and they do a brilliant job.  

Walk around any city and look at what people are doing...

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Like I said, there are always going to be ideas of what Black beauty/beauty should be. I think because I'm 6-2 and 230 I've always liked taller women. I also like dark skin, but like I said before I like a lot of women that look different in a number of ways. Women that I thought looked good, or okay, most of my boys didn't think looked very good. I happen to think Leslie has a great smile, nice lips and great eyes. It's part of what allows her to create the characters that she does. Her face is able to contort and shift and because of this she has a tendency to look unattractive because the characters she plays are loud and brash. 

Unlike many I don't associate her character with her because I don't know her. She is a Memphis girl and Memphis women are often loud and will whoop and holler at the drop of a dime. It's a character though and not really how they are, it is almost a defense mechanism because men are overall pretty shitty dudes who are abusive and confrontational. Women have to create these personas. Leslie has created a persona that has allowed her to transition into film from clubs and SNL. That is a major accomplishment. She has a right to overreact to the ignorance on Twitter, but she could have easily and quietly pulled her page down and left it alone. However, she is an actress and she may feel she has a duty to stay in the public view to show girls that non-traditional looks can succeed in Hollywood and on the big screen.

I'm amazed we can make such a long back and forth about the looks of a sister. Then again... no I'm not. We place more emphasis on what women should do and be and act like than we place on how men should act and carry themselves. The people attacking Leslie primarily where men. But in a male dominated society founded on rape culture we expect women to be "demure" and less "manly" whatever the hell that means. 

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@Pioneer1 Smoking is not so popular anymore, not since the American Cancer Society and AMA bad mouthed it over 25 years ago.   And it doesn't get a lot of media exposure or ad space. Nowadays nicotine addicts are not considered cool, they're considered defiant, and die-hard (pun intended) smokers complain about being ostracized. 

@Troy I am not promoting or defending FaceBook.  It is a  pass time that is a waste of time.  Yet, not only is it a facet of social media, it is also a sociological phenomenon that  lends itself to being observed because it has permeated our culture, and exerted a lot of influence on Society.  It is a force to be reckoned with and can't just be relegated to being frivolous.  

And for the black masses being clueless about the surreptitious media, back in the day black TV viewers complained about not seeing people who looked like them on their screens, so producers came up with a lot of low brow black comedies, and black viewers complained at the way they were portrayed by buffoons like Jimmy Walker on "Good Times", so they came up with the Cosby show  and black viewers complained that the Huckstables were super negroes who were nothing more than carbon copies of the white middle class.  Before this, was the era of the Blaxploitation movies with pimps and 'hos, feisty black sistas and cool black dudes who black audiences soon recognized as caricatures. Then movies about the trials and tribulations of slavery started appearing, and folks complained about these depressing narratives being turn-offs because they always depicted black folks a victims. The latest media breakout is "Empire", an overnight success that's all about the bling and black folks controlling there own show biz turf. Still, a lot of blacks feel because its producer Lee Daniels is gay, that he is using this series to send silent messages about the normalcy of gayness.

I continue to believe black folks do experience gut feelings about the ulterior motives of what they view but they just accept it for what it is. Who wants to go through life full of suspicion and paranoia, restricting your viewing to PBS, when you can find an escape from your humdrum existence by watching things that entertain and engage you?

@CDBurns Sistas, like all women, do maintain facades, showing different sides of themselves on different occasions. This is how women roll. They reserve their sweet, coy sides for when they are in a seductive mode.  As you imply, men need to polish their images, and realize that they have a lot of nerve demanding certain behavior from a woman if they, themselves, don't look like Denzel or have their act together, - not to mention that element of black men who have no problem hooking up with goofy, fat, white cast-offs.

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I don't think we disagree.
I think we're just placing our individual emphasis on different aspects of the solution.

However I will say that encouraging our people to get more college education is like encouraging people to put more icing/frosting on the plate but there's no cake to go under it.
Higher education was meant to refine and expand upon a foundation that already exists; but Black people in America barely have a foundation in social and civil matters with which to BUILD that higher education up on.

How you gonna go to school to be a doctor when you haven't even mastered the basics of what diet is best for Black people?
Or your administering medicine that not only doesn't work for your people but may make them worse?

How you gonna be an engineer and help others build tall sky scrapers downtown when YOUR neighborhood is falling apart and you can't even build a house from the ground up?

You have a doctorate in bio-engineering and want to run off and work for Monsanto, but don't even own land and if you did don't have sense enough to farm it to feed yourself and your family.

See what I mean?

There's a BASE that needs to be focused on first before we push our children off to help another man build up HIS world.




I think social media is actually making people socially weaker....more shy and self-centered in their own little world.

When I was a teenager, if me or my boys wanted to meet girls we met them on the bus, in the mall, at school, on the street, around the block, anywhere.

Now, a lot of people have gotten so shy and self centered that they are afraid to start a conversation with the person sitting next to them. I can't remember when I last saw a young man try to strike up a conversation with a female out of the blue. If you see it, it's usually a man over 40. It's hard to get next to them today because even when they're alone, as soon as these girls sit down by themselves they whip out their celly and start texting and their eyes light up. The older generation of Black men used to tell us they felt sorry for us and I didn't understand what they meant, but now I feel sorry for the younger generation of Black men coming up.

This "virtual world" of social media is in my opinion disrupting the natural order of things and giving people false courage on-line while making them more cowardly when it comes to social situations in real life.

Those same people attacking Leslie on social media probably would NEVER say those things to her face to face.



Mr Burns

Again, the crux of my argument is NOT how Leslie looks but how she behaves.

It really doesn't matter than she is from Memphis because you'll find her type all over America.   Big, loud, brash, shameless women who are angry because society in general doesn't accept them with their unnatural behavior.  But let them tell it, THEY aren't the problem.  They'll claim this society can't accept a "strong Black woman".

When I lived in New Orleans I heard them say the same thing about New Orleans women, I grew up hearing the same thing about Detroit women, in Atlanta they say them "Georgia Peaches" will cut you to the bone if get out of line, the same in Chicago, Los Angeles, ect.......
The fact is, all over the United States too many Black women in urban areas have gotten a reputation for being loud and vulgar and actresses like Leslie helps to perpetuate that image whether she's like that in REAL LIFE or not. 
We should be ASHAMED of that image, not glorify it or try to defend it as some sort of "defense".

You say Leslie's brash and masculine behavior is a defense mechanism for men acting shitty and disrespectful?

Look at places like Pakistan and Iraq where the women are thoroughly oppressed and abused by men.
These are environments where girls grow up being beaten, abused, killed, see their entire families killed in front of them.
They've experieced and observed extreme trauma far beyond anything we have imagined in the inner cities of the United States yet when they come to America how many of them do you see acting like Leslie Jones?
How many do you see fighting eachother in the street, or walking up and down the street cussing and threating people to fights or getting up in peoples faces wobbling their heads and bucking their eyes?
You probably have NEVER seen any of these women do this.

They, like Asian, African and other women come right over and fit in with other NORMAL women who carry themselves like ladies.
They keep their voices mild and maintain a shyness about them.

If growing up in a violent and sexist environment makes women violent and obnoxious, why aren't THOSE women behaving like some of the women you see in our uban communities?

I say it's the opposite.
I say because so many Black men HAVEN'T checked their daughters and sisters for their loud and obnoxious...un-lady like.....behavior, it's actually encouraged more of it.

It appears that the Black community has lost much of it's "standards" of behavior and what it will tolerate. 
People are using the fact that Black people shouldn't imitate White people or hold their standards up as ideal...which is legitimate because we need to be ourselves.....as an excuse not to have ANY standards at all and just allow our women and men to behave any kind of way and accept it.

I don't expect Black or Asian or Latina women to LOOK or ACT like White women, but I do expect them to look and act like WOMEN and stop using excuses for such demeaning and obnoxious...and yes MASCULINE (loud, aggressive, boisterous, in your face, confrontational, cussing, ect...) behavior.

Finally, the only reason we're talking about women is because this THREAD is about Leslie.  But best believe the Black man is in worse shape and is more deserving of criticism than the Black woman.
But let us not make the mistake that many in the Black consciousness community do of believing that the Black woman is somehow santimonious and beyond reproach.

No one is above criticism.

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In regard to the necessity of attending college debate, IMO at the crux of it is the subjectivity that permeates the exchanges.  When certain people who have degrees are told that being college-educated is not synonymous with high intelligence, this deflates the pride they take in themselves for having achieved a degree, The idea that their accomplishment is met with indifference rather than admiration fills them with indignation. When other people who don't have degrees are put down and told that they are not equipped to better their circumstances, they cynically refute this with anecdotal examples of self-made successes. These personal sentiments overshadow the main issue. 

Taking an objective stance provides an obvious conclusion.  A college degree is a status symbol that opens doors in the workplace and is a gateway to a better existence. The other side of the coin is that uplifting one's station in life can also be achieved with the ingenuity and innate abilities that college doesn't teach. Both contentions are valid and don't devalue each other. When seeking one's fortune, to each his own. Broadminded individuals see the merits of both points of view. 

These opposing approaches hark back to what put W.E.B DuBois and Booker T. Washington at odds, and the after effects of this controversy still linger.        

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I don't know Leslie, but what I see is a persona. It is one that she is using to exist in Hollywood and she has a right to do that. Your observation of other cultures in comparison to Black women is surprising considering how much you appear to understand the treatment of Black women in America. Based on the treatment of Black women in America and the continued treatment of Black women in America their defense mechanisms are going to be much different than any other woman you will encounter. 

The idea that a woman who can be publicly hanged will ever become anything other than demure is completely and utterly absurd. The comparison you make doesn't make sense at all. A woman who has been beaten down as many women in countries abroad will remain beaten. They may eventually fight, in their own way, but it is hard to change what has been placed upon you.

Now counter that with how Black women in this country have been forced to adapt to their situation and their defense mechanisms are a necessary reality in this society. They have to be straddle the line of strength and being reserved. It's a duality that I don't think any other man or woman in this world has to face.

I never said Black women aren't to be criticized. I said the behavior that is exhibited has a reason and that reason is justifiable. You've chosen to say it is not justifiable. We disagree and that is fine. However, I don't agree that Leslie perpetuates any thing by her behavior. She is playing a role. She is allowed to do so to make a living for herself. Her role does not influence or represent Black women. If Leslie is a new actress, this idea of the loud, obnoxious, oversexed women has always been here well before Leslie stepped on the scene. When the sister is being interviewed she is on point and that is the thing that I look at. I simply won't judge someone for the character that they play. I can't pay her bills and I won't deny her the right to earn a living. I don't think it affects or shapes thought. I get that entertainment is influential. I really do. I've argued on this message board that music can change things so I'm not naive to the power of entertainment and perception... but in this instance she is breaking ground and doing her best and in the process her roles are getting better. 


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Lelie has a pretty smile and a nice set of teeth.


No one can say I didn't say ANYTHING nice about our sister...lol.




We shouldn't confuse legality with ethics.
Sure she has a right to get on television and clown and coon and fullfill every negative stereotype that White America has used to demean Black women since slavery.....
But is it ethical?
Is it right?

You mean to tell me that she's allowed to disgrace her own people just to pay the bills?
That's almost like saying since I don't pay the Bird Mayn's bills I have no right to criticize him selling dope in the community.

Where does it end for those who promote non-productive and even self destructive behavior to our young people?

Even in that interview where she is supposedly being "herself"....look how she's sitting and carrying herself.
And then look at how most of the other women who come on talk shows sit and behave.
Tell me if you DON'T notice a difference.

Listen to how she said her friend called her a "bitch" while encouraging her.
Black women didn't call eachother bitches as a term of endearment UNTIL one or two comediennes started saying it back in the 90s and now it's in style for Black women to just disrepect eachother....that's the influence people like her have.

Now granted Black women in America and other women from around the world may come from different circumstances, but as one who was in the military and probably saw the effects that war and an already abusive culture....I seriously doubt that YOU would deny that WHATEVER circumstances Black women in the United States come from they probably pale in comparison to what women coming from in the Middle East or other parts of Asia have been through.

Except for a psychiatric (chemical) explaination such as the water and the foods eat having some sort of chemical effect on their behavior....there is no reason for so many of our Black girls in the United States to maintain such loud, boisterous, and masculine (fighting, cussing, violent outbursts) dispositions except them learning it from people like Leslie.

African women who come to America are Blacker than we are with no admixture but aren't found behaving in that manner.
Something is going on with many of our women and Black actresses like Leslie are being used to "normalize" it  and make it seem as if it's just normal for "a sista" to be loud and obnoxious.

I observed this as far back as the 90s with the Spice Girls....the lone Black member of the group Melanie B was known as "Scary Spice".
She took on the role as the "bad girl" or the evil one with the tough attitude.

Just like there's a history of trying to effeminize and emasculate Black men in the West...
There's year of history of trying to masculinize Black women in order to disrupt the natural harmony of our family and community life in the West.

This is all the more reason that I say we as a people need STANDARDS.

When you have standards and clearly defined social rules, then it makes unacceptable behavior easier to point out and correct and it also makes it harder for those form outside the community to manipulate our youth.

Leslie is more than just a sista trying to catch a break.
Saturday Night Live has for years been used as a tool of social engineering which is why so many politicians routinely pop up on the show as guests.
She is just a pawn in a larger game of influencing negative and counter-productive behavior in the society by influencing Black girls to act other than themselves.
This causes anger and chaos in the community because too many Black girls grow up trying to act agressive and confrontational like men and then can't understand why so many Black men leave them and seek women OUTISDE of the race who were raised to be comfortable in their femininity.

I'm sure you've seen this frustration of young Black females in some of the students you teach.

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I'm sure if Leslie reads this she will appreciate you saying she has something nice, lol.

Nigerian women actually carry the same loud, boisterous demeanor as Black American women. They wouldn't call each other bitches, but the loud, jovial spirit is something that is actually very African. I know you will say that they aren't fighting and cussing... but to be honest I'm out everyday and this is not the norm for the women I encounter. It seems to me you are being manipulated by the media in what you see in Black women.

I mean I can't judge an entire group by dating one family (and when you date one, you date the family) but I dated an Ibibio woman and her aunts, sisters, mother, all were loud, loving women who were very outspoken to an extent. Once again, I don't really look at the negative in a lot of situations because nothing comes from that. I look at the potential of what a person or a situation is. In Leslie you have a part of a duo of the first sisters on a very important show. Social programming happens, but I also see opportunity. 

I really can't understand how Black folks spend so much time condemning every aspect of Blackness. If we laugh and crack jokes we're cooning. If we are uptight and straightlaced we're Sambos. If we are demure or soft spoken we lack backbone. It appears that Blacks can't ever get it right and never will because we all have to bear the responsibility of the culture and the people. It's unfortunate because it seems that we would rather have nothing than have an opportunity to gain something. I am not excusing poor behavior, or shitty music or crappy television, I'm saying that all of these things make up the diversity of a people.

You keep saying that Leslie represents all of the bad qualities... I say she is providing an opportunity for the next person to come along and do it better than she has. I'm also saying that if Leslie wasn't around, or Monique or any number of women who are loud comediennes, people would still say what Black men and women are.

Isn't it time to stop worrying about what everybody else thinks and celebrate and focus on us?

There is a Black woman on a primetime show that has produced some of the great comedy minds in America. This woman is not a traditional "beauty". She has two major films in or headed to the box office. She is a spokes person for a major company. 

While it is definitely argumentative that her representation is negative (I don't see it as such) these are good accomplishments.

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Well, Chris, SNL bills itself as "not being ready for prime time" which is why it comes on late night.  I concur with everything you say, but I reserve the right to be my natural hypercritical self. 

Last night, figuring I could catch the Olympic reruns later, I chose to watch ABC's Sunday evening fare, which is a 3-hour run of updated versions of the old game shows, Family Feud, $!00,000 Pyramid and The Match Game. Coincidentally, Leslie Jones was one of the celebrity panelist on Match Game, and I was glad for what I hoped would be a chance to see her out of character.  

No such luck. If Leslie does play a character, the character she plays is herself. All through the show she was loud and overbearing, in and out of her seat, doing a pratfall, walking off the set, mugging and bucking her eyes, giving an answer to one of the questions that had to be bleeped out, because it was probably "pussy".  She was also being all touchy-feely with the white male panelist sitting next to her, who was very receptive, I might add.  

Yes, the other panelists, who were all white, were also animated and anything but reserved.  Interesting enough, one of the contestants was a black guy, who completely ignored Leslie, focusing on the 2 white female panelists, claiming to have a secret crush on one of them and he was so elated at winning that he did a wild dance.  What can I say? This show is a free wheeling bash that's quite entertaining. 

Nevertheless, for whatever reason, I found Leslie's over-the-top, attention-seeking antics to be annoying. She's too hyper and, in the final analysis, I couldn't forgive her for committing the cardinal the sin of - not being funny; just silly and disruptive like a lot of insecure folks of all colors who go into comedy. That's show biz. 

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9 hours ago, Sara said:

You are one of the very few who post on this forum that I consider to actually think for himself, who read critically and are willing to go outside the Establishment box to seek answers to the black condition.

LOL who on this board besides an unoriginal thinker like you who exists in a cookie cutter world, does not read critically or think outside the box? You're the only one who disagreed with Pioneer on the subject under discussion.  And your advising youngsters to dutifully go to college is as about conventional and unimaginative as one can get. But it is nice that you've condescended to pander to Pioneer by appreciating his being unorthodox.

I also find it amusing how adamant you were about relegating high school graduates to dead-end lives doing hard labor, ignoring how many are able to work their way up through managerial ranks of the companies where they're employed and achieve success, something which you are suddenly patting yourself on the back for. Flip flop, back and forth....  

And anyone who considers themselves informed should be aware that there are many top-rated high schools who do provide their students with good black grounds in Math and Science and English composition, subjects  which enable them to bypass the remedial non-credit courses a lot of matriculating Freshmen from inferior high schools have to take.  Not to mention there are a bunch of second-rate colleges out there, that award diplomas to students who are not conversant on any subject other than the one they majored in. (Sounds like the caliber of  graduate students who don't know how to present themselves to employers, and need a lowly secretary to lecture them on this.) tsk-tsk.  :o

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No, Sara. it's not about seeing what I want to see, it's about seeing you as you are because you're unbelievably  transparent. Intelligence, educated, whatever; you are so inconsistent, and contradictory that you don't fit the description of anything other than an addled-brained blotter who soaks up what others say, then claim it as your own. People on this board were making a distinction between intelligence and education while you in all of your educated pretensions were prating about what a college degree represented. And Google is, indeed, your friend because without it, you would be practically mute.  

Too bad you didn't make your mark at the prestigious Northwestern University instead of northeastern whatever where you worked your way up from file clerk to a secretary,  echoing what employers told you when you gave your second-hand advice to grad students lacking in problem solving skills. You models of mediocrity deserved each other.  LMAO.

It's still a mystery to me why you, with your inflated opinion of yourself, continue to post on this site. (I suspect it's because this is a step up for you.)  

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LOL.  This from somebody whose grammar I had to correct, leaving you to sputter about not "editing" your mistake. Yeah, right.  

This discussion on education vs intelligence has been going on for quite a while and during the course of it, Troy, Chris and I all sided with Pioneer while you were blubbering about a college education being "devalued".  Once you open the door with your sneaky oblique remarks about others, butting into the conversation is fair game. It's  the consequence of your being too cowardly to be upfront.( an example of the slyness that is second nature to you.)  

BTW, I never said you went to northeastern.  But I'm sure if, wherever you went, was a school of any note, you'd be crowing about it all over the board about.  (You really do come across as a Chicago State alumna.) :wacko:

And, as usual, you have to channel the words of others because you never had an original thought in your life. Take note that Haile Selassie didn't say anything about the fact that everybody has intelligence; it just comes in different degrees, - something that would never occur to a dolt like you who is so stuck in the mire of being "educated" that you're incapable of critical thinking.  Interesting, too, The Lion of Judah made no acknowledgement of people who are naturally gifted, those who occupy the realm of the aesthetic, sans education: musicians, and artists and scribes. 

Believe me, if I wanted you off this site, you would've been gone.  But I love having you around to poke fun at on a slow day. You're such an interesting sub-specimen of a paranoid humanoid. I got such a kick out of you bleating  to Troy, telling him to just "cancel my account" :( when you imagined he was picking on you. ROTFLOL

@Pioneer1 I think ol Sara has a crush on you. :wub: Keep stroking her and maybe you can "turn her around" - if you get my drift. ;)


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So, Separatism, Black Nationalism, Afrocentricism. What are you advocating?

Thank you, I appreciate that you can disagree with me but still respect my position and view me in a positive light over all.

That is a very complex question because I'm seeing the first hand results of all 3 positions (actually more) being played out in the streets of Detroit in a way I hadn't seen in the past. I'm seeing things today being played out that I only read about sitting up as a teenager in the Shrine of Black Madonna book store.  I read about the various Black political philosophies of the 60s and 70s but now I'm actually seeing them and the various results they're having on the thinking of the people in different communities and it's giving me a better idea of what works, what doesn't work, and what's actually self destructive.

So what am I advocating?

Lol.....right now I'm advocating that you start another thread with this topic so we can delve into more deeply because I don't want to further jack Troy's thread with my responses to it.





I'm glad you noticed how erratic and "wild" Leslie behaves.
Like Sara said....she's not funny at all to me.
Most of her behavior is stereotypical and much of it is offensive and embarassing.





You don't come around this neighborhood (Cynique's Corner) much, I'm glad to keep you on the porch for a while....lol.

Sure African women are loud and jovial.
I found out not to long ago that most ASIANS tend to be loud and a fiesty in their own cultures when they feel White people aren't looking.  And we know most Hispanics are as loud if not louder than Blacks
Infact, MOST cultures period are loud and flamboyant when compare to the rather reserved and restrained northern European culture that dominates the United States.
It's not the loudness and flamboyancy that's the issue, it's the negativity and inappropriate behavior attached to it that I have a problem with like the cussing and violent talk which you intuitively knew and referred to yourself.

I support the right for women and men to behave as they wish as long as they don't hurt anyone else, even if that behavior is abnormal and doesn't fit with their sexual nature.  Which is why I don't bash homosexuality or cross dressing anymore......it's their right as human beings to do that as far as I'm concerned.  However, if you ask me is it the BEST behavior or is it behavior that should be PROMOTED and I'd have to say NO.  I'd rather promote heterosexual behavior where the gender roles are in line with the sex.
And it's the same with Leslie.
I don't mind her being loud and outspoken and I don't mind her cussing a little like Monique.  But guess what? Monique is still a lady...a woman.  Her femininity has NEVER been questioned and she's probably never been called a gorilla or ape.
She LOOKS like a woman and acts like one, and even those she may be a big girl...fat even....she's still made like a woman and her femininity isn't in question.
With Leslie....she's made big and bulky like a man and she behaves on the hard masculine side and this is the difference between the two.

I've been all over the United States, Canada, and parts of Europe and had an opportunity to see hundreds if not thousands of African women, and I've never seen ONE who LOOK AND ACT like Leslie Jones.  They may be her complexion, and may have SOME of her facial features....but most aren't made in the shape she's made  NOR will you find them behaving like she does.
Just look at how she sat in the interview with her legs all open and on the edge of the chair like a dude....how many women do you know outside of the ghetto that sit like that????



Isn't it time to stop worrying about what everybody else thinks and celebrate and focus on us?

When Black people are able to provide full employment for themselves and don't have to rely on Whites and others for the majority of their income....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what other people think of us.

Until then, when Black actors like Leslie come on playing a crappy racist manager or Black people play theives and violent buffoons characters I have to worry about those images having an impact on the White managers and employers who refuse to hire Black people with those images as an excuse.

When Black people provide security and law enforcement in their own communities and no long rely on a majority White police force to keep order and safety for our children....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what other people think of us.

Until then, when Black rappers brag about selling dope and killing people or play dope dealer roles exclusively I have to worry about how many White racist police officers are using that as an excuse to lable Black males as "animals" and dregs on society who they want to exterminate.

When there are enough Black doctors, nurses, and hospitals to provide care for our people.....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what others think of us.

Until then, I have to worry and hope that the White, Asian, and Indian doctors and nurse who are working on Black patients have an open mind and don't believe that Black people are subhuman and not really important enough to keep healthy or alive based on the crap they see in the media or what they've been told growing up.

In other words, when we live in our own society and are fully supporting ourselves and don't have to rely on anyone else....THEN we can stop worrying about what others think of us.
Until then, we have to deal with this.......


Those police officers said that Black people were prone to violence and USED that excuse as a justification for slinging our sister around like a rag doll.
The characters that Leslie Jones plays FEEDS INTO those racist beliefs of the aggressive Black woman.

I'm sure there are no stats on it, but I have to wonder how many Black women.....older Black women...have been hurt or killed by police officers who may have seen those "Ma'dea" Tyler Perry movies where he puts on a wig and dress and plays a crazy wild and hyper aggressive old Black woman who loves violence?

Thanx to Tyler Perry, an entire generation has been influenced to lose respect and sensitivity to older Black women.

They look at old White women and they see a sweet little old grandma who needs a hug.
They look at old Black women and they see some feisty old cussing beast who needs to be man-handled because that's the only thing she understands.

I'm not trying to take away Leslie's right to make a living or express herself, I'm just saying she and other Black comedians should be more aware of the impact their characters have on the greater community.....especially in this volatile political and social climate.


Leslie Jones isn't the first Black woman to make SNL's cast BTW....there have been others.
Actually, there's another sister on there right now who isn't getting much attention.


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Well there you have it, Pioneer. The sly, sniveling Sara is at it again, using you as a conduit to vent her frustrations and delusions as she doles out her instructions on the proper way to conduct yourself if you want to keep her favor.  So be advised to just flatter and humor her or she'll cuss you out like she did CDBurns and taunt you like she did Troy and snipe at you like she does me. Leslie Jones has nothin' on this shrew;)

Meanwhile, I've been relegated to envying her because - um - humm.  Well, I'm sure there must be some obscure reason why I would ever envy this mundane mope.

To dear ol forlorn Sara, I will remind that you, too, once promised to leave this board, but you're still here - through no power of your own, still loitering around, feigning disdain for AALBC, yet desperately seeking the conversation and approval of the regular crew and, best of all, - still amusing me!  LMAO

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You two...lrs (laughing real soft) :-)

Pioneer you are reaching with that entire post you just wrote. 

Black women have always been the receivers of this shitty and unjust society. It has absolutely nothing to do with Leslie Jones. I said a while back that Leslie is one of two Black women. They are both the first black women to actually be cast members, not guests. The other woman would probably be a lot more "acceptable" to you since she's cuter and more "feminine". As far as how she is sitting on the couch... I guess having been a basketball coach and working with both girls and boys teams, I've seen a lot of girls who sit that way when they have pants on. They typically are playing a role. Like Cynique said though, it seems Leslie isn't playing a role at all. I don't know if she is or not, but her role has very little effect on the treatment or perception of Blacks in America and abroad.

Name me any point in the history of us in the US where we were considered respectable, lady like, and gentlemen.

We have always had to fight to overcome the perception. I have argued both sides of this and that's what I'm doing here. I have old posts where I say exactly what you are saying. I didn't finish the series but take a few and check these out. We are both saying the same thing, I'm simply arguing a different side right now: http://www.cbpublish.com/winter-in-hip-hop-essays-and-thoughts-on-the-problem-in-hip-hop-a-web-book/

I won't even write any more about that because you are acting and writing as if the recent trend of Leslie Jones, Madea or Precious or Empire is why Black people are in bad shape. It just ain't the truth man. Not in the least. Also Monique has been called much worse than Leslie.

Black people's problems are systemic, (Racist, patriarchial, historic) and it's self hate. That combination is what creates the issues for Black folks, especially Black women.

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Chris, there is one statement  in your post that i would like to respond to but i will do it on a new thread because this one has gotten is too long and goes off on tangents.  I will entitle the thread.  The Leslie Jones Factor

Pioneer, you might want to post your response to Chris' opinion on that thread, too.  

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Pioneer already suggested that a new thread be started in a earlier post because he felt he had hi-jacked Troy's post.  And I'm sure he doesn't need a ventriloquist to speak for him especially since you're the one who is the Dummy! :wacko:

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