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Troy

The Best Definition of white Supremacy Ever

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NFL Hall of Famer, Jim Brown , gives the best definition of racism I've heard.   

I completely agree with this definition—particularly from the perspective of a bookseller and someone who celebrates Black culture.  You see, we typically do not value anything that we create unless it has the white cosign (validation).  

We don't value our writers unless they write for a white publication, we don't value our books unless that have been published by a white-owned publisher and have been acclaimed by the white media or some white-owned institution.

Of course, in today's economy, there are those who seek white validation because that is where the money is, But this reality is the direct consequence of white racism, and our conditioning continues to make it true to this day.

“White supremacy says that for you to be considered a person that I respect and like; you must accept the fact that I can validate you and that's the highest honor you can have is my validation.”

 Note: I engaged in a bit of hyperbole, with the click-baity subject line, as part of an ongoing experiment...

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How recent is thIs video?   It doesn't seem to jibe with the news that Jim Brown showed up at the white house days after the election, hat-in-hand, groveling and confessing that he had "fallen in love" with Donald Trump. Did he do this in the hope that Trump, in all of his white supremacist  glory, would validate him???? 

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According to the comments on Youtube, the video made in in 2010.  

Again Cynique you seem to be fixed on Trump being a rabid racist.  If this is your only world view, you'd never be able to conceive how a Black activist, like Jim Brown, might be inclined to be willing giving Donald Trump.  Instead of you'd rather demean Brown by describing him as groveling when you and I both know, Jim Brown does not "grovel."  

 

 

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Donald Trump has laid down with racists dogs and gotten up with fleas.  You seem to be fixed on the idea that racists have to be rabid to problematic. Trump is certainly nobody who considers the black problem a priority and he has the power to enforce his indifference.   It's very possible that an opportunistic Jim Brown is "stooping to conquer", and we can only hope that his ulterior motive is to be victorious in doing some good for his people -  instead of himself.  Frankly, I doubt whether Brown will accomplish much of anything other than being among the blacks who Trump condescendingly considers his best friends.  

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Yeah, for the most part, I am mostly concerned about the racists who will string a Brother up, or shoot up a Church.  I'm also concerned about those rabid racists that feed Black people into the prison industrial complex, by not providing adequate educations and hyper-aggressive policing.

I'm not too worried about the little old lady who clutches her purse more securely as I walk by because she has been brainwashed by the media or the person who voted for Trump because they are suffering economically and fell for the lie that Mexicans immigrants have taken their jobs and believe a wall will help them get a well paying job.

Jim Brown has already demonstrated his commitment, as an activist by dedicating a lifetime to helping Black people.  He is not interested in simply hanging wth Trump.

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Well, like many black men "dedicated to helping  their race", Brown liked his white women and has a history of violence against all the women in his life, having served a brief stint in jail for not observing a restraining order taken out against him. As a black female, down through the years, such publicized incidents were what stuck with me as much as his accomplishments as a football superstar for the Cleveland Browns.  I know he was a civil rights activist but  the first thing that came to my mind when he expressed his admiration for Trump, was how sure i was that this misogynist had no trouble relating to Trump's pussy-grabbing statement that epitomized a disrespect for women.  

So it's not just about racism, it's about all the politically-incorrect issues Trump validated because of his being an outspoken boorish bigot which is slightly different from being a rabid racist like the guys he chose for a couple of his cabinet positions.

Bottom line, I am more amused than impressed with Brown's jumping on the Trump bandwagon under the guise of helping his race.     

 

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I appreciate and believe I can understand your perspective.  You are a contemporary of Jim and a Black woman, so your perception would be different from mine, a Black man who attended the same University as Jim and was fueled on his legendary football exploits.

Jim Brown from my perspective is a classic man's man.  You would never see him doing the Salsa in the end zone or jumping into a Goodwill bucket after making a touchdown.

Still, having recently reviewed JIm's background one has to contend with and reconcile his history of violence against women.  Is it the result of a smear campaign by white men trying to keep another powerful Brother down, as it was done against the leadership of the Black Panthers.  Or maybe it was the horrendous behavior of a young man who dealt badly with his physical strength, power, money, and celebrity.

In any event, Jim hasn't been accused of any of these things in decades.  Rather, he has been a strong activist working for us in a way that few other with his prominence do.  JIm could be doing anything else.  

Do we ever forgive him and move on? What is better keeping a powerful advocate down because of past fuck ups or take advantage of his power advocacy?

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What I think of Jim Brown or whether I "forgive" him is unimportant.  It's a matter of whether or not Donald Trump  will provide Brown with what he is looking for.  Whatever that is.  

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Cynique, you were the one to bring up Brown's "...history of violence against all the women in his life..." Why do you bring it up if it were not a factor in making your point?

Who knows if Trump will give Brown what he is looking for?  What Jim is doing is trying.  Trump, whether we like it or not, is the President.  We can sit in the corner and sulk while things get even worse, or we can continue to try to improve things.  

 

I don't know if Obama reached out to Jim Brown; maybe I'll look that up later.  However I do know Obama reached out to Al Shapton.  This does give you something to think about, doesn't it?

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Because my point was that it wasn't all about sucking up to a racist sympathizer like Trump when having doubts about Jim Brown's resume. It was also about my cynicism in regard to them being fellow misogynistic womanizers, something that does not speak well for the integrity Hillary haters criticized her for.lacking. Not to mention their condemnation of Bill Clinton's behavior which Hillary was held accountable for.

And what is your point in bringing up Obama reaching out to Al Sharpton?  Since Sharpton didn't get any appreciable results in dealing with a black Democratic president, why do you think Jim Brown will fare better when dealing with a white Republican president, who you seem to be assuming reached out to him??  

As for sulking in the corner, that doesn't describe me.  I'm on the sidelines,  rooting for the Progressives who are about holding Trump's feet to the fire and are who Jim Brown might do well to ally himself with, unless of course, like you, he has no problem withTrump's unscrupulous disregard for truth and legality.    LOL

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OK I see you can't get past Brown's issues with women from decades ago, and it appears to be impacting your impression of Brown, and maybe you are right.  But why do you give Bill Clinton as pass and not Jim Brown?

Why should Brown align himself with the progressives you speak of?   We can have a multi-pronged approach when dealing with Trump.   Besides, the progressives haven't done such a great job holding Trump's feet to the fire so far, have they?

I brought up Sharpton/Obama to contrast with Brown/Trump.  If Brown/Trump reaches the same level as Obama/Sharpton, I think the relationship will be very different and there will be a positive outcome for Black folks.  I can't see Brown being a Trump sycophant, in the manner of Sharpton, for the next 4 to 8 years, without getting anything in return.

No, Cynique I actually have complete and utter disdain for Trump's "unscrupulous disregard for truth and legality" and our media's inability to call it for what it is rather than use it to boost ratings.

But at this point, it does not matter what I think about Trump--good, bad, or indifferent he is the president and he is the man we have to deal with.  

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I don't give Bill Clinton a pass, I just question why his wife should've had to bear the guilt of his womanizing.   Obviously your hero worship of Brown is what influences you to give him a pass.                                                                            

Trump isn't even inaugurated yet so nobody knows how successful the Progressives in the House and Senate will be in their attempt to keep him in check, or gain ground through compromise.

BTW, did Trump request a meeting with Brown, or did Brown request a meeting with Trump?  And why will Brown whose accomplishments in benefiting his race are mediocre, succeed where others have failed in influencing a Republican president? What bargaining tool does Brown have to win over the rich, white, right-wing  conservatives who have Trump's ear?  

I agree, however, with your last statement that good, bad or indifferent feelings don't matter inasmuch as Trump will be the president that everyone has to deal with - unless there is a successful impeachment process. i am just debating with you because that is my polemic nature, but in reality, I am indifferent.  As I previously said I really don't give a damn. At my age, waking up every morning is enough to amuse or divert me. Whatever will be, will be.      

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Well, I appreciate the debate Cynique.  Trump and his presidency are so emotionally fueled that reason, facts, and relevant information are largely absent to very difficult to isolate. Perhaps by critically examining my own ideas, will make is possible for me to see where my own biases club my judgment.  So thanks.

I don't think Hillary should be judged based upon Bill's policies or behavior.  But if is difficult to ignore her reaction to his behavior which she obviously condoned or perhaps enabled.  I think it speaks to her own motivations and what she is willing to tolerate in exchange for moe power and wealth.  Obviously, I can't know her motivation but if it difficult to look at favorably.

Do you think Michelle's would have reacted the same way as Hillary if some intern was caught blowing Barack in the oval office?  That on top of all the other stuff we know about--God only knows what else we don't know Bill has done.

I don't who called the meeting between Trump and Brown.

No, it is not my hero worship of Brown that makes me more inclined to give him a pass than Trump.  I don't believe I engage in hero worship in that sense.  What resonated with me is the statement I quoted from him.  I've seen it in action; we live for white validation and it has debilitated the Black community.  White validation diminishes Black institutions, businesses, and our very culture--effortlessly. 

I think if Black people truly understood Jim's statement, that would go a long way to helping Black people move forward.

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I didn't mean your hero worship of Brown "made you more inclined to give him a pass than Trump" when it came to his disrespect of women.  I implied that it made you more inclined to give Jim Brown a pass than Bill Clinton in regard to this.   And maybe Hillary didn't care about Bill's carnal lusting after other women  knowing that he was seeking from them what she wasn't interested in giving him; and maybe she was further adhering to her vow to accept her husband "for better or worse". Women react differently to unfaithfulness, usually in their own self-interest. In any case the Clinton's resilient marriage has endured, and they have steadfastly remained loyal to each, transcending scandal, probably because they are more allies than lovers, and genuinely like and understand each other. As for Michelle Obama, I don't know what she would do in a similar situation and I don't really care because I don't look up to her as my role model. To me, she's just a well-educated woman who married an ambitious man and dutifully met her obligations like all other first ladies. 

And am I to assume that your comparing Obama's reaching out to Al Sharpton, with the possibility of Trump's reaching out to Jim Brown, means that you think the latter will reap better results because a white Republican president will be more successful in getting a white conservative Republican Congress to agree that  black lives matter? Something that Obama failed to do. We shall see.  

Everybody has their interpretation of white supremacy. Jim Brown declares: "for you to be considered a person that I respect and like; you must accept the fact that I can validate you and that's the highest honor you can have is my validation."  Brown's attempt to ennoble and intellectualize white supremacy does not resonate with me because I look upon it differently.  To me, white supremacy has nothing to do  with validation. It is more about arbitrarily deciding that since you do not have white-skin like me, this makes me better than you especially since I have acquired the superior power to enforce my belief. Jim Brown's definition would seem to suggest that to gain the approval of whites, you have to ingratiate yourself to them in order to win the reward of their validation. Translated: Sucking up to Trump is the way to gain his favor. ;) 

But who is to decide how blacks should deal with the burden of their race in the coming years?  As the saying goes: 'guess they'll just have to "git in where they fit in"...

                                             HAPPY NEW YEAR!                                                                      

 

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Yes, I'm definitely more inclined to give a Brother, like Jim Brown, a little more leeway that a rich privileged powerful white man who has had a life time of being given passes, from everyone.  Needless to say, Trump has been given more passes than all the wide receivers in the history of football.

I find it difficult to believe that Hillary did not care about Bill's numerous reckless "activities," but we can't know...  

I mention Obama aligning himself with a Sharpton because it told me he was not really serious about addressing the needs of Black folks. If he would have summoned Brown or better yet, maintained his relationship with West, rather than ditching him after he got elected, that would have been an indication of serious intent.  Now this is not to say that Trump will do anything for us, but the meeting was interesting to note and we'll see what some of it (I don't have high hopes)

Sure your definition of white supremacy is text book, the validation part is the consequence of internalized indoctrination brought on by racism and the reason we struggle.  That more nuanced assessment is important to understand.

Happy New Year Everyone!

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Maybe it's just my take on it but it seems that Jim's response to the interviewer's question sounded like a rant or ramble to me.

The man asked him a simple question about the racism he experienced at Syracuse and he gets into slavery and Obama and everything else and at the end of it, slaps the man upside the head for asking the question in the first place.

I mentioned before that a lot of White people are genuinely confused about how Black people really feel because so many of our people can't properly focus and articulate how they feel in a direct manner.
What Jim said was correct, but much of it was irrelevant to the direct question the man asked him, which although I'm sure the Jim's intent was to INFORM him of the history of racism...the fact is the guy wasn't looking for a lecture.




For me, White Supremacy is pretty simple and straight forward.
White people think they're better than other races because they see themselves as smarter with more accomplishments.
If we want to change this attitude among them, we should show ourselves to be just as smart and smarter....and accomplish just as much and more.
We're not going to "talk down" White supremacy with telling White people history they already know.
Nor should you expect sympathy and understanding from those who put you in the position you're in in the first place.

If we want White people to drop the White Supremacist mentality then we must disprove the myth of White supremacy by showing superiority in thought and action.

 

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In order to argue without  bias you needti be indifferent or aware of your bias , beliefs and assumptions .  Very few even  think about doing this. Or worse assume they are ipen minded or  thinking critically. 

On 04/01/2017 at 1:03 AM, Troy said:

high

Can you explain or reword tjis statement . 

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@Del, I don't understand your request.

I think we are all biased on some level--it is natural; we are all human. However I do believe our bias lies on a spectrum; some are much more biased than others. Indeed some of blinded by it.

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