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Troy

W. E. B. DuBois Criticizes Capitalism

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Du Bois's speech reminded me of a comment @Delano, made in a conversation I started last week.  Du Bois died a year after I was born and was old enough to have personally known black people who were formerly enslaved. It is a crying shame that almost 60 years after this speech was delivered the things Du Bois criticized have only gotten worse. His point on what we now refer to as campaign finance reform was particularly telling.

W. E. B. Du Bois Criticizes Capitalism in the audio below.  He was 93 when this speech was delivered and was a remarkable human.  It seems he was wrong about socialism being the dominant world structure.  I guess he was far more confident or optimistic in human nature.

“…American Negroes must know what is going on in the world today and learn for themselves what [Socialism] has to teach them in order that they may preserve their culture, get rid of their poverty, ignorance and disease and help America live up at least to a shadow of its vain boast as the land of the free and the home of the brave”

Del, maybe Dubois was right too.

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Although I'm not a pure Capitalist and prefer a mixed economy with the best elements of both socialism and capitalism....I lean more toward Capitalism and the so-called Free Market system as the best economic system for not only Black people but human beings in general.

Booker T. Washington said the same thing and this was one of the reasons he and Dubouis didn't get along.

Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's more in tune with human nature as it provides motives and incentives for most people...especially people with ambition...to aspire to.

It inspires you to be creative and bold and take risks for rewards.

While I think SOME things should be socialized and used for the good of the public....like healthcare and police protection.....socialism in and of itself isn't very practical for our people.

To keep it real.....
Too many of our people are LAZY, and if they know they can get taken care of in the way of food, clothing, and shelter while not having to work than many of them will take advantage of such system and pretty soon society will collapse from so many people not working.


What we need is Capitalism with a strong social safteynet.

But most people in general, and especially our young men need a strong INCENTIVE to work and be ambitious.

The promise of getting rich, getting plenty of women, having nice things, and owning property is that incentive to make sure people keep the society operating.

 

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I guess the problem in the US is that we do not practice a true form of capitalism, which is the fundamental problem.  I

I don't agree that capitalism is "in tune with human nature," unless you consider the exploitation of large swaths of the earth's population and the concentration of wealth into the hands of a few "human nature."

People are more effective when they share resources and work together.

While I agree there are many people who seek wealth, women, property and nice things as you suggest; I think most of that motivation is created because of the capitalist system.  It is part of the conditioning that is required to make our brand of capitalism work.

In fact, many could make a strong argument that constant consumption or the desire for it, makes us less happy.  Are we happier upgrading our cell phones every two years, or buying more clothing than we can ever wear? 

Besides the majority of us are not benefiting from this system.  I can't image that any thinking person would agree that progressing on our current trajectory is sustainable.  

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To say that people are more effective when they share resources and work together is like saying society is better when people don't lie or steal from eachother.

Meaning...the statement is just as impractical and unrealistic as it is obvious.

Since when or in what society have people EVER worked together in harmony and shared resources?

Even before slavery and colonialism and before Africans or Native Americans came into contact with Europeans.....Africans and Natives had their own despots, dictators, and blood thirsty strong-men who ruled over their tribes and kingdoms with violent absolutism.
I'm not saying this was the case with all or even most African and Native American leaders.....but many.
You always had men who were smarter than others and saw a way to "take advantage" of the other.

Even under communism and socialism......
In THEORY everyone lives together equally with the same resources all working according to his/her ability.

But in PRACTICE of just about every communist nation you have the masses of the people living poorly with just a very basics guranteed to them in the form of food, clothing, and shelter while the members of the communist party of that nation living large and dividing any wealth produced among themselves.

Atleast in Capitalist America, England, Nigeria, or Brazil you have a handful of super rich people...a large number of poor....and a pretty decent size (but shrinking) middle class who own various degrees of wealth.

When China and Russia were straight up purely communist EVERYONE was poor and living in the projects.....even those who were highly educated.
While only a couple thousand people who were members of the government got to enjoy the finer thing of modern society like thier own house, cars, and fine dining....and even wearing a suit.

It was actually nothing but an extreme form of Capitalism that eliminated the middle-class!


I'm not coming from a right-wing conservative Republican point of view.
But after having lived all over the United States, traveled to other countries, and spoken to people from all over the world about what they've experienced where they were ...it's lead me to my current beliefs that Capitalism in practice....although not perfect....is much better than Communism or even socialism.

The desire for wealth and women isn't generated or create by society.....
These traits are inborn.
MOST men have the natural desire to not only procreate and spread his genes but also accumulate the resources to protect and care for himself and his progeny.
Also, most men by nature want to CONTROL and OWN resources and property....not share them or have them taken away from him and distributed to others.


I agree with you that most people aren't benefiting by this current system, which is why it needs to either be reformed or replaced.

But the biggest problem with the system isn't that it's not working, but that it's just not working for most of OUR people.

In other words.......
In a Capitalist system that demands some people must assume the role of wealthy owners while the masses must assume the role of poor workers;
Perhaps Black people should take a lesson from the Asians and other immigrants in this nation and start trying to audition for the role of WEALTHY OWNERS instead of constantly begging for a role a poor worker....who doesn't even WORK half the time!

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thewisdonofnagtiveamericans.jpgI'm reading a book right now, The Wisdom of the Native Americans, just little quotes from the indigenous people describing their way of life.

There is nothing in it that describes all of the negative attributes that @Pioneer1 seems to think is human nature.

Again, I think this is more a reflection of conditioning than an indication of human nature.  I sure you've traveled and talked to a lot of people but if you probably talked to others like yourself who were fed a diet of the virtues of capitalism and the ills of socialism.

I'm not trying to glorify the native American's but there is nothing in their history to reflect what you describe as human nature.

The same goes for the precolonial African peoples.

Capitalism, as we know it effectively started with Europeans about 500 years ago.  The shit only works when people are exploited and enslaved--you know this right?

Even when great wealth is amassed by a few they never share it. Today the majority of the Earth's population lives in abject poverty thousands of people die every day from starvation.  This does not have to be the case, we have the resources to eradicate starvation, we just don;t have the systems to do it.

In all of your travels have you seen real poverty? Do you think it is human nature to let that exist?

 

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Capitalism communism or socialism. Can also apply to the system of government. 

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Is it any wonder that I am a  pessimistic?  What is there to be optimistic about?  "Man's inhumanity to man is what prevails in this god-forsaken world were truth is a casualty, and equality a myth.  The rich get richer and the poor will always be with us.  

Have a good day.   

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Troy

For every book you can find me showing how peaceful and wholesome the Native Americans were and what a "heaven" the Americas were before White people arrived.....I can find another that portrays Native Americans as blood thirsty savages and cannibals who were ripping eachothers hearts until they were either decimated or "civilized".

As I've said numerous times before, to me it's a bit futile to argue over history because no one is able to actually PROVE what happend hundreds of years ago.
The most you can do is gather evidence to support your position and hope it outweighs the opposition.

I'm sure the truth lays somewhere in between.
Some tribes were violent and war like, others were peaceful and isolated.
Some were matriarchal and had women leaders, others were partriarchal and men called the shots.

The same with the continent of Africa and it's many different tribes and ethnic groups who like they are today were probably warring with eachother thousands of years before the first White man ever set foot on the continent.

The point is, people very from one region to another and no place on this Earth is perfect.
It wasn't back then, and it isn't now.


 


The shit only works when people are exploited and enslaved--you know this right?

And you
DO know that Communism doesn't even work AT ALL right?


I don't think Capitalism necessarily needs enslavement to work properly but it DOES need a certain amount of exploitation in order to function.
But exploitation ITSELF lines up with human nature.

A small minority of people are very smart.
The majority are of average intelligence.

A small minority of people are very ambitious and want to own everything
The majority are content owning just enough to provide comfort for themselves and their families

A small minority of people are managerial and love organizing and controling people
The majority don't like the mental work of organizing or telling others what to do and would rather be TOLD what to do.

Thus you have the recipe for exploitation.


I'm not arguing that it's right....or wrong..but almost all human beings are exploited be someone to some degree at some time or another.

When you realize this, you then demand adequate compensation for your exploitation or you go into business for yourself and turn the tables around.



 




Cynique Miss Sunshine

Is it any wonder that I am a pessimistic? What is there to be optimistic about? "Man's inhumanity to man is what prevails in this god-forsaken world were truth is a casualty, and equality a myth. The rich get richer and the poor will always be with us.

Have a good day


Hey Sunshine!
I'm reading a pretty good book I think YOU should check out:



Image result for alpha god

 

You can take lessons from this dude......lol.
He paints an even gloomier picture of humanity than YOU do!

I have no doubt that Troy would also find much of the content of this book quite interesting as well.


 

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I discovered late in life that I am  an Existentialist and didn't know it.:huh:

                                                       The 3 Stages of Life: 

                                                                 (1)  Birth 

                                                                 (2) What the fuck is this?

                                                                 (3) Death

 

 

                                                                         

 

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Miss Sunshine, that was a good one LOL!  (is that original)

@Pioneer1 please refer me to a single book, written in the last 50 years, that describes native Americans as "blood thirsty savages and cannibals." 

It is interesting you are so quick to say what can't be proven but you use "unprovable" information to support your arguments.

Pioneer America was built on the back on, and derives most of its wealth from, the labor of enslaved Africans.  Even today people labor all over the Earth in slave-like conditions so that you can pay $200 for a pair of sneakers that cost a few bucks to produce.

It is very easy to become wealthy if

  • Your labor costs are $0
  • You have consumers brainwashed into buying thing they don't need or paying for the things that they don't need
  • You own politicians so that you don't pay taxes, don't deal with regulations, get bailed out if you ever lose money, etc
  • You convince the masses that you are righteous because greed is good, or as you put it "Human Nature"

No man, what we have is an oligarchy and it is sad to see so many people defend it when so many people are suffering under it. I guess it is no different that the house slave who fights to defend massa's house...

 

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No, the 3 stages of life meme was not original.  I came across it, and it made me laugh out loud.  And that was a good thing. Life is a joke you just have to catch on to. Maybe.  :wacko:

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Lol Yeah that was a good one!

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21 hours ago, Cynique said:

I discovered late in life that I am  an Existentialist and didn't know it.:huh:

                                                       The 3 Stages of Life: 

                                                                 (1)  Birth 

                                                                 (2) What the fuck is this?

                                                                 (3) Death

 

 

                                                                         

 

And some Joy

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Troy

@Pioneer1 please refer me to a single book, written in the last 50 years, that describes native Americans as "blood thirsty savages and cannibals." 

 

Image result for Cannibalism headhunting and human sacrifice in north america


I believe that book was published in 2008

I just found that one after a quick 2 minute search, but there are others.........

I didn't post this book because I agreed with it's content, but to prove my previous point that for every book showing how gentle and peaceful the Native Americans were there are others that say the exact opposite.

Again, it's fruitless to debate pre-modern history because as soon as you THINK you know the truth about an event someone comes along with brand new information that was stored away in some old vault somewhere.

I'm not going to deny that the exploitation of Black labor wasn't one of the key factors in making this nation the economic powerhouse that it is; but slavery existed and STILL EXISTS in dozens of nations all around the planet  If slavery was the sole reason why the United States is so rich then why aren't OTHER nations that practiced and STILL practice slavery just as rich?

Slavery....especially the exploitation of Black labor...was prevelant ALL OVER the Americas from Cuba to Brazil.....why aren't THEY doing as good as the United States?

CAPITALISM and is one of the reasons for our tremendous wealth.
Not JUST because of the exploitation...although that admittedly is a factor...but also because:

a) The incentives Capitalism offers to not only the business owners but also to the workers themselves actually encourages productivity with the hope for more gain.

 b  ) The light restriction and regulation under most Capitalist systems allow for a more flexible way of designing and managing economic structures and businesses to maximize profits and production.

 

 

No man, what we have is an oligarchy and it is sad to see so many people defend it when so many people are suffering under it. I guess it is no different that the house slave who fights to defend massa's house...

Well.....
If the field slave doesn't have anything to OFFER the house slave and doesn't have a plan to get both of them free, perhaps the house slave is better off keeping his ass IN THE HOUSE and enjoying as much of massa's luxuries as he can get his hands on!

Think about it.
If the field negro doesn't have a plan to get free, and is just mad because he has to work his ass off sweating in the hot sun.....is YOU leaving the comforts of the house just to come out and keep him company in his misery going to help either one of you?

It's always best to NOT be a slave.
However if by misfortune you are gonna be slave ANY-damn- way....
And you didn't receive divine revelation to help you free yourself.
And you aren't willing to die fighting massa for your freedom
And you don't have a viable plan for your freedom.
......then wouldn't the logical thing to do is derive as much pleasure as you can out of such a jacked up situation?




I agree that we live in an oligarchy.....an Oligarchal Republic to be exact.
And it's rapidly becoming a PLUTOCRACY.

But the few have ALWAYS ruled the many, in just about every human society you can think of.

You'd like to live under a Democracy but a true Democracy among humans is almost impossible because if EVERYONE is in charge then who would be authorized to make rules and keep order?

You don't want to live under a theocracy where only one religion is allowed.

You certainly don't want to live under a dictatorship with on man calling all the shots.

So do you want to live in an anarchy where NOBODY rules and everyone does whatever they want with no one to answer to?

That'll last about 2 weeks......lol.

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I only asked for a single title @Pioneer1--one book.  I figured you would come strong--definitely a book you'd actually read.  

Is this the best book you could come up with?  A book, from some unknown publisher written by an even more obscure author whose credentials, knowledge and bias are all unverifiable.  This is what you share with me as your reference material?

I am beginning to understand why you feel some things can't be proven.  Like climate change deniers, overwhelming evidence means nothing as long as there is a single detractor that can be pulled from under some rock--they are satisfied.

Keep in mind capitalism has only been practiced for a few hundred years, man has been on earth for 200 thousands years.  If you believe that the last we, Black folks in particular, have fared better than any time in history despite all the ills you know all too well.  Then you are right if can't be debated because nothing can convince you otherwise.

You should read about some of the great African civilizations that existed. I just remembered PBS is broadcasting Africa's Great Civilizations.  I have not seen it yet, but I'm sure they will focus on the tremendous accomplishments of these societies despite the absence of capitalism.

You can also buy the DVD, though I don't know who still buys these things.

Great African Civilizations

 

 

 

"...then wouldn't the logical thing to do is derive as much pleasure as you can out of such a jacked up situation?"

Man, this is such a profound statement.

So @Pioneer1, if you were a slave living in the big house, the child of a raped African (your mother), who was later sold.  You work 18 hours a day every day, wiping the ass of the dude that raped your mother and every other decent looking enslaved Black woman--including your wife...

The only thing that comes to your mind is figuring out how to have fun?  That is deep.

Perhaps you put your finger on the mentality that keeps us mental slaves to this day.  

People are too busy having fun for themselves instead of trying to make things better for everyone...    

Again, this is not our nature, this is our conditioning.

 

 

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@Troy I'd read the book recommended by Pioneer before I condemned it and I'm surprised at your reaction. I don't find it unreasonable to believe that Native Americans, who were primitive people, fought fire with fire and engaged in atrocities against other tribes and white settlers.  Yes, the "Nobel Savage" is romanticized as an ingenuous  people close to nature who learned to live in harmony with the earth and smoked peace pipes and revered the buffalo, and communicated via bird calls and tom-toms and were brave wasrriors,  but they were also human and no human group is all good with no bad. Whether they were all good or all bad is beside the point.  They were here first and were driven off their territory by white people who did terrible things to them.  It's the nature of the beast.  The strong prevail over their adversaries by any means necessary.                                                                                                                                      We're always hearing about the great civilizations of Africa and all the things they introduced and invented.  Are books about this ever written by anyone other than black people?  And why didn't these great African civilizations, who sold each other into slavery, last?  Because they weren't great enough to stave off the onslaught of  great white marauders with guns who sacked and stripped Africa.  There's a difference between "great" and "good". As for slavery days in America.  The masters knew how to maintain control by dividing and conquering.  Slaves with higher status could always be depended upon to betray their lesser brothers. For people who knew no better, house niggas were proud of their rank.   

We know that history is written by the victors and truth is the first casualty.  But one truth endures and it is that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". 

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My argument with Pioneer is not that any group of people are all good or all bad.  My issue is how he describes our nature, as if we perpetuate this perverted form of capitalism because it is our nature. Germans are not inherently evil because they were led by a lunatic. I don't believe humans are inherently exploitative, but we are very easily led.

I don't like the connotation of the term "primitive people" in this context.  I think in many ways we are more primitive today, despite our technology--perhaps because of it.  Sure the indigenous peoples of North America were more primitive from a technological people. But from a spiritual perspective, the people inhabiting these lands are spiritually vacuous, despite more the majority of us professing to follow a religion.

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Cynique

Not only do I agree with your post, I often wonder do you REALLY mean everything you post....
Or do you just read my ATTEMPTS to argue with Troy....feel sorry for me.....and out of pity and frustration decide to take up my argument and present it in a stronger more detailed fashion simply to show how it SHOULD be done....lol.


But just one thing......
That book I presented on Native American savagery wasn't RECOMMENDED by me.
I haven't read it so I'm not promoting it nor am I condeming it's content.
I presented it simply as an example of how you can find books for or against any group of people.

 

 

 

Troy

I only asked for a single title @Pioneer1--one book. I figured you would come strong--definitely a book you'd actually read.

Is this the best book you could come up with? A book, from some unknown publisher written by an even more obscure author whose credentials, knowledge and bias are all unverifiable. This is what you share with me as your reference material?

????

Lol....
Excuse me but your EXACT request was:

@Pioneer1 please refer me to a single book, written in the last 50 years, that describes native Americans as "blood thirsty savages and cannibals."

You said nothing about my having to have read it or any other criteria.
You asked for reference material, and I provided exactly what you asked for.

Not only have I NOT read the book, I'm not INTERESTED in reading the book.
I only posted it to illustrate to you and prove to you MY POINT that there are as many books out there that negatively portray the Native Americans as there are those that portray them positively.


As far as the documentaries you recommended.......
I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but my argument isn't whether or not Africans OR Native Americans had great civilizations before.....because we certainly did.

MY argument revolves around the benefits of Capitalism over Communism or Socialism and that's where I'm gonna stay focused on.  I'm not gonna divert from that and chase you all around the planet going all the way back to ancient Egypt in an attempt to prove to me something I already know about Black history.
Ofcourse we had our own systems back then, but we DON'T have one today and until we GET one of our own we should stick with works best for us.


 

Man, this is such a profound statement.

So @Pioneer1, if you were a slave living in the big house, the child of a raped African (your mother), who was later sold. You work 18 hours a day every day, wiping the ass of the dude that raped your mother and every other decent looking enslaved Black woman--including your wife...

The only thing that comes to your mind is figuring out how to have fun? That is deep.


No....survival.

It's easy to sit in a comfortable home in 2017 and "philosophize" about what you would do or not do back in slavery.  But in those days it was about SURIVAL.
Most slaves did what they had to do and what their LIMITED KNOWLEGE allowed them to conceive of doing.
It wasn't about being brave and vituous and enduring mutual suffering, it was about survival and getting through a jacked up situation as best they could.

Besides.....
Aren't YOU the one who questions life after death and the reality of a spirit world?
If so, why the hell SHOULDN'T he make the best out of such a terrible situation?

What good would it have done the house slave to give up what little benefit he was getting just to go out and suffer with the rest of the slaves?

Atleast in the house he had the influence and resources at his disposal to help himself and his family....if he chose to do so.


 

Perhaps you put your finger on the mentality that keeps us mental slaves to this day.

People are too busy having fun for themselves instead of trying to make things better for everyone...

Again, this is not our nature, this is our conditioning.

Again, this is basic human nature.....for MOST people.

By nature most people are selfish and AREN'T concerned about the well being of others but only themselves and their family.

I didn't say most people wanted to HARM others, because I don't believe this.
I'm just saying most people DON'T CARE about what happens to others outside of their family and circle of friend.
Just like only a select few people are psychopaths who have NO empathy or feeling toward others, a select few people are universal empaths who care about the well being of ALL of humanity and go out of their way to help everyone.
But most human beings...regardless of race....reside somewhere in the middle of these two extremes.


This is one of the reasons GOVERNMENTS were invented.
Knowing that most individuals are basically selfish, it was smart and wise to come up with some sort of collective system to ensure the safety and provision for people who ordinarily would be ignored or even taken advantage of and abused by their fellow man.

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 @TroyJust as you had a problem with me calling Native Americans "primitive", i have a problem with you using the pronoun "we" when it comes to capitalism, as if "you" and the rest of black people have a say-so in whether or not Capitalism is perpetuated.  LOL 

Because you are an idealist you always come from a position of how things should be instead of how they are. The human race gives lip service when it comes to the evil of exploiting people but the greed gene dominates. The quote "I've been poor and I've been rich, and rich is better" has been attributed to several people, all of whom it applied to, and its message resonates everywhere with everyone.  

When it comes to the German people who are traditionally very nationalistic, their resentment against the Jewish bankers who were exploiting their economy already existed. Hitler was telling them what they wanted to hear and they showed no inclination to rebuke him. (Just like Trump and his followers) Black people who, as you would have it, are another form of the human race were exploited because the white form of the human race had no qualms about using blacks for their purposes. Human beings do inherently exploit each other to some degree because doing so improves their own lot in life. IMO

And, yes, the Native American simple spiritual approach to life is an acceptable alternative to our present superficial, materialistic computerized society.  This is not a revelation.  Most people would find merit in this assessment.  

@Pioneer1 I just calls 'em, like I sees 'em.  I find points of agreement and disagreement with everybody who posts here. 

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@Cynique,my problem with the use of "Primitive," in this context, is not specific to you, but how we use the term collectively. The suggestion that a lifestyle different from ours must be primitive and therefore worse.

I think "we" do have a say so in how capitalism is exercised.  We just choose not to exercise it.

The quote, "I've been poor and I've been rich..." besides being glib, presents a false dichotomy.  We can all be doing very well, much better than we are doing now without being poor or rich. We also know being rich does not make you happy, and there are many poor people who are very happy.

I'm not sure people would be so willing to give up their technology to become more in tune with nature. I think must younger people would find nature boring. Again, this is part of the problem.

@Pioneer1 , you've been here long enough to know Cynique is not gonna take your side, however rare that may be, out of pity, 

At the end of the day, it is more profitable to capitalize off a weak, insecure, and ignorant people than it is to profit off those who are strong, conscious and informed (woke).  As a result, corporations have no incentive to uplift us--even if they are an educational institution (think Trump University).

As a direct consequence governments, who do the bidding or corporations, don't do anything to stop them and often HELP corporations exploit people as in the case of Amazon, who is thriving wildly under capitalism, while people become increasingly less well off.

The system is broken, and to suggest there are no other better alternative makes no sense, when history demonstrates that there are.

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@TroyEvery group thinks its lifestyle is the preferable  one.  Primitive people probably think their simple way of life is better than what "civilization" has to offer. I don't think modern society condemns what's primitive.  It  thinks it's quaint and should be preserved and observed. 

And do we really know that "being rich does not make people happy and that many poor people are happy"?? This is just  a platitude. An updated examination of that rationale  says that money can buy happiness because it enables you to decrease or eliminate what keeps you from being happy.   Few people are content living in poverty and it certainly has an impact on struggling black people. The preferred choice between being affluent and being indigent is a no-brainer.

And I don't think technology and spirituality are an "either/or" situation. They can co-exist in a society where compartmentalizing is common.  The conveniences of technology free up time for introspection and leisure.  Also, young people are in the forefront of saving the Earth  and following Vegan diets,  or are they deeply into conventional religion.  

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Sure technology is great, but in the hands of greedy people, it becomes a perversion like everything else from religion to our presidency.

That really is the problem with capitalism; it has been perverted, perhaps beyond the point of no return....

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*Ofcourse money won't solve all of your problems, but whatever problems you have.....being broke will make them THAT MUCH worse!

(now that WAS an original...lol)

 

Troy

At the end of the day, it is more profitable to capitalize off a weak, insecure, and ignorant people than it is to profit off those who are strong, conscious and informed (woke). As a result, corporations have no incentive to uplift us--even if they are an educational institution (think Trump University).

You're absolutely right!
And you know what?
As far as I'm concerned corporations and private businesses HAVE NO OBLIGATION to uplift the public!
Their only responsibility or obligation is for whatever the original founders started them for or the current owners maintain them for; which is presumably to MAKE MONEY.

And in principle I don't have a problem with that goal in and of itself, as long as they aren't harming other people to do it (which far too many of them are doing)

That's why we have a GOVERNMENT.
The GOVERNMENT should be the ones we hold responsible for looking out for the general wellbeing of the public, not private businesses.
If the government were doing IT'S job in the way of making sure everyone had decent housing, enough food, and proper healthcare.....then there wouldn't be so much need to pressure private firms to provide many of these basic necessities.




As a direct consequence governments, who do the bidding or corporations, don't do anything to stop them and often HELP corporations exploit people as
in the case of Amazon, who is thriving wildly under capitalism, while people become increasingly less well off.

This is true.
These past 40 years it appears that this nation has grown less CAPITALISTIC and more FEUDALISTIC.
Feudalism being an extreme form or end result of unregulated Capitalism.

 

 

 

The system is broken, and to suggest there are no other better alternative makes no sense, when history demonstrates that there are.

In no way am I saying that this is the best system the world has EVER known.

What I'm saying is I haven't found any CURRENTLY OPERATING alternatives to the system we have in the United States that are BETTER.
If you know of any being PRACTICED RIGHT NOW that yield better results then let me know.....because I'm looking for a way to improve my socio-economic status too!

And certainly we can MAKE a better system than the one we have today but it would take collective effort.

 

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@Pioneer1 Canada seems to have a good system to taking better care of their people.  Australia does too.  As well as many European countries like Denmark.  Now none of these countries have put a car on Mars, created a device to tell you what to wear, or made a website like Twitter, but that is fine.

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It appears on the surface that society is better in Canada and these other nations because of universal healthcare and other social services, but I found out:

1. The only reason Canada and Europe can provide free health care and so many other social services for it's citizens is because the United States DEFENDS THEM...so they don't have to spend much on military defense.

If the U.S. weren't around to protect them they wouldn't have nearly the amount of free social services for their citizens.
And vice versa....
If we didn't spend so much on our military to police the world then we'd have more money for UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE and other social services.

And as proof of what I'm saying, you see austerity rising up in Canada and Europe today.
They're raising taxes and cutting social services left and right because America's military is being spread so thin that these other nations are being forced to boost THEIR military spending.

Which leads me to another issue.....TAXES.

2. Canada and most European nations take way more taxes out of your income than in the United States to pay for many of these services.
Now I wouldn't mind paying UP TO 25% of my income in taxes if I were guranteed universal healthcare and free college tuition and clean safe streets.
But many of these places take far higher percentages than that which makes it almost to the point that you get PUNISHED for generating great wealth and it kills ambition.

If I were poor with no income, I'd love the fact that wealthy people were taxed to help me.
However if I were wealthy or even upper middle class earning a decent living, I wouldn't want to live in a nation that takes 75% of the money I worked hard to earn and just "spread" it around to the disadvantaged.

3. A huge factor in why these nations seem to be doing so well has less to do with thier economic system and more to do with their DEMOGRAPHIC.
Canada, Denmark, and Australia.....although having people of color...are OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE nations!
They want to see their own people living clean safe and civilized.
In the United States you have too many racists in office who have a vested interest maintaining a racial heirarchy and keeping poor and mostly Black and Brown neighborhoods underdeveloped.
This has nothing to do with Capitalism vrs Socialism....but more to do with racism.


Again, this system isn't the best ever.......
But we can still make it work better for us if we were more organized and aggressive.

Black people have been here long enough and have enough financial power COLLLECTIVELY to make ourselves the 4th or 5th richest nation on this planet!


I've heard it only takes $250,000 to start a credit union.
There should be atleast ONE Black owned credit union in nearly every major city in this nation.

Why don't we have ONE major Black hospital in this nation?

No Black owned barber shop or soul food chains nation wide?

It's not Capitalism's fault.....it's lack of unity and mental laziness!

If this nation turned socialist overnight Black folks would still be in the SAME condition and social status.....or maybe even worse...... because many would actually QUIT the jobs they do have believing they'll be taken care of.

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Humm.. it looks like you have made my point Pioneer.  Thanks!

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Either Communism ,Socialism, or Capitalism can be exploitive but I think that Capitalism is ruining our healthcare system.And I don't like African-Americans being

stigmatized as lazy.Some of them just don't want to work for "CROOKED EMPLOYERS" like slavemasters were years ago.

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