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Pioneer1

The Wrong Woman To Flirt With

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She basically spends basically an hour berating Black men for using ALL forms of communication in displaying their attraction towards Black women.
I mean just about everything.

As far as this woman is concerned, even calling a woman "beautiful" or asking her where she goes to church is an insult....lol.
 

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A situation I ran into the other day in Pennsylvania made me think about this video and others like it that are a little extreme but I do think it gets into the head of how a lot of sisters actually view Black men and "our" approach to women.

I stopped into this place to get some coffee and there was a young Black girl at the counter I'd judge to be about 22 or 23. She smiled and asked me my order and I said a large coffee. She asked did I want any cream or sugar in it and I said,
"No.
I like my coffee like I like my women....straight and Black."


A line I've used thousands of times....
A line that has actually gotten me a few dates....
A line that had women smiling over 80% of the time.....

But this time, this young girl stared at me for a COUPLE OF MINUTES with a blank look on her face.
Now I didn't say a few SECONDS.....I said MINUTES.
A minute is a long time for someone to stand there staring at you.
A number of thoughts was going through my head about what was in hers.....lol.

After staring, she rolled her eyes and sighed while shaking her head, went and got my coffee (I had to watch her after that....lol) came back and gave it too me without giving me any eye contact.  As I was leaving I heard her go to her co-workers (white girls) and say,
"Giiiiirl, you would not believe.....was he serious."

Now this isn't the first time I've seen something like this.
For the past 10 years or so it seems that a lot of young Black women, especially those who have been raised around a lot of White people, don't seem to understand flirting or "slack talk" that a lot of Black men do.  It seems that many of them are being TAUGHT....not coming to the conclusion on their own but TAUGHT....that the way Black men talk to them is rude, inappropriate, and disrespectful.....especially compared to the rather bland way White men conduct themselves around women which is being held as the ideal.

Now I know a lot of Black men ARE rude and disrespectful with women as well as with eachother, but it seems like with this new "#metoo" movement and "street harassment" movement......the very culture of Black masculinity seems to be scrutitinized.


Does anyone understand what I'm saying?

In other words.......

Black men have THEIR way of communicating with women.
White men have THEIR way of communicating with women.

But the way Black men do it is slowly being framed and labled as "wrong" or "inappropriate".

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@Pioneer1How do you know a white male saying the same thing to a young white woman wouldn't have elicited the same response as you did?   And you continue to underestimate the intelligence and instincts of black women.  They are no more influenced by white women, than white women are by them. These fragile "me too" white women are now emulating strong sistas most of whom have learned how to deal with men who proposition them, something they've been doing for centuries. All women are a part of a current culture which is becoming increasingly cynical about the inappropriate behavior of horny males.   

 

The girl in question is of the humorless Millennial generation and these types are "politically correct" to the extreme.  What might've offended her was your insinuation about  "straightness" and "blackness" which is a "no-no" to the Millennial mindset of inclusiveness and tolerance.  This is why many stand-up comedians won't appear on college campuses anymore, because the audiences there are too easily offended about subjects comedians have traditionally made jokes out of.

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Cynique

How do you know a white male saying the same thing to a young white woman wouldn't have elicited the same response as you did?


I don't know it.
But I don't believe it would, because out of the decades of observing Black females deal with White males.....I haven't seen one react to a White male the way she did over an issue so petty.

Oh don't get me wrong....I've seen Black women cuss out and beat up on White men.
But it was usually over something serious like a threat or racist insult, but not mild flirting. Usually the Black woman will still smile a little out of social respect even if they didn't particularly find the remark particularly charming.



And you continue to underestimate the intelligence and instincts of black women. They are no more influenced by white women, than white women are by them.


Yeah?
Well how do you explain so many younger Black women today WELCOMING homosexuality and befriending gay Black men?

2 generations ago it was totally unacceptable among most Black women, even if they had a gay brother or son they condemned it.
Today many defend it.

In most African and West Indian socieites where there is LESS direct contact with White people....most Black women are still anti-gay.

I'd say that Black women in the United States....just like Black men....are heavily influenced by White society.

 

 

These fragile "me too" white women are now emulating strong sistas most of whom have learned how to deal with men who proposition them, something they've been doing for centuries.
 

I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat....in that White women are learning to be bolder toward their men.
However, the difference is no matter how much White women condemn sexism and "toxic masculinity".....you don't really hear too many of them condemning "White men" in specific.
Where as a lot of Black women will actually name BLACK MEN in their condemnation.


 

 

All women are a part of a current culture which is becoming increasingly cynical about the inappropriate behavior of horny males.

But how do we know most of this behavior is actually "inappropriate"?

Who is making the rules?

Again, I have to go back to what I said earlier about White women influencing Black women.
Black women aren't the one's making the policies that decide what IS and ISN'T inappropriate.....White people in general are.



The girl in question is of the humorless Millennial generation and these types are "politically correct" to the extreme. What might've offended her was your insinuation about "straightness" and "blackness" which is a "no-no" to the Millennial mindset of inclusiveness and tolerance. This is why many stand-up comedians won't appear on college campuses anymore, because the audiences there are too easily offended about subjects comedians have traditionally made jokes out of.


I can't argue with anything you've said here.

I just hope that young Black women don't allow themselves to be "tricked" out of healthy sex lives and relationships by listening to racist White women.
Black people should be educated about THEMSELVES and realize that our mentality and how we relate to eachother is DIFFERENT than White people and we shouldn't use their standards of sexual relations.

Most White men I know would never flirt with a woman in public, but would be all over them in a bar.

 

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Man I started to listen to the video, which is just audio, and it is 45 minutes long. She did not open up with anything compelling enough to entice me to invest the time to listen to the entire recording.

 

But in a lot of ways I agree with both of you;  on the surface the political correctness that seems so important to millennials is really a false front to less honesty, more tribalism, increased filter bubbles and less true communication. 

 

Millennials overshare on social media creating a  false facade of who they really are, primarily motivated by slick marketers who have addicted these adults on psychometricly timed rewards in the form of likes and shares.

 

The nuances of flirting, genuine complements, or even constructive criticism is lost on these folks who spend their time communicating with each other behind a handheld screen which prevents them from truly knowing each other.

 

 

 

 

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I asked: "How do you know a white male saying the same thing to a young white woman wouldn't have elicited the same response as you did?

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I don't know it.
But I don't believe it would, because out of the decades of observing Black females deal with White males.....I haven't seen one react to a White male the way she did over an issue so petty.

@Pioneer1 ???  I'm wasn't talking about how a black female would react to a white male saying what you said.  I asked how you knew whether a white female wouldn't have reacted the  same way, had a white man said to her what you said to a black female, - my point being that "race" very possibly had nothing to do with the after effect of an encounter like the one you described.

 

Moving on, everybody isn't a homo-phobe like you. That's why same sex marriage is becoming legal in all states, and why the Supreme Court  strikes down those who practice discrimination against people because of their sexual orientation. Plus, more than half of the population accepts gays as legitimate members of society. Broadminded people don't concern themselves with  "what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults". Furthermore, conventional wisdom in the medical community says that homosexuals are born that way and should not be ostracized for being themselves, and that a truly straight male cannot be converted into being gay or bi-sexual. ( Something i imagine you would attest to). Incidentally,  superficial things like clothing have no gender.  They are just a matter of taste and preference.  i don't agree with the claim of some who insist attempts are being made to feminize black men.  i, personally,  find the latest style of suits  with tight trousers and short, single-breasted, 3-button coats quite sexy.  Nothing more appealing than muscular male thighs shown off by tight pants.   Also, sistas have always had gay male friends and confidants, especially among hairdressers because these guys are good, sympathetic listeners.This is nothing new! And show biz females of every ethnicity have always had legions of the adoring gay groupies who these women appreciate because these fans are so supportive and loving.    In any case, homosexuals have a right to exist, whether you despise and stigmatize them or not.

 

Finally, your fear that white females will somehow corrupt the sexual behavior of black ones is ridiculous! Sexual antics transcend color.  All women do whatever works when it comes to pleasing a man they desire. And in regard to your observation about white men, how do you figure a bar is not a public place??   I guess you  are also unaware of how typical white construction workers ogle and make cat calls at female passers-by.  Or do white people have a monopoly on good conduct!   Black folks who embrace civility do so as human beings who reject crude behavior, not as "wanna-be's" influenced by white people, as you suggest.  Anybody who equates black propriety with their being influenced by white society, brings to mind the slave mentality that scolded black folks for being "uppity".  It also reeks with your inconsistency. You want black folks to imitate what white people do to achieve economic success, yet you criticize them for swimming in the main stream.  Your implication  that  blacks sacrifice their uniqueness by having poise shows how you constantly underestimate them.  Their being able to successfully preserve their mystique is a not only a reality, but a tribute to the adaptability which allows them to be elegantly black.  

 

Sooo, 2018 is starting off on a familiar note.  We are just never of the same opinion. 

 

 

 

 

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Pioneer your fixation on the artificial construct of race and the associated misguided stereotypes create a bias in your reasoning. 

 

Obviously Black people in America, indeed all over the world, are influenced by western (white) culture.  But that does not have anything to do with rates of homosexulaity occuring in the population. It does however influence our collect condemnation of homosexuals through, I suspect, our brand of Christianity. 

 

As Cynique indicated, science is showing people are born this way. It will however take time a long time for homosexulaity to become more universally accepted, probably as long as it will take people to dispense with racial-driven stereotypes. 

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Troy

It appears to me that most millenials are more sexually repressed and timid than even the baby boomers were at their age!

There is no social and sexual freedom among them.
No one is meeting anyone new and growing because they're all continuously revolving in their own little social media worlds....afraid to leave their comfort zone.

 

 

 

It does however influence our collect condemnation of homosexuals through, I suspect, our brand of Christianity.


If you eliminate Christianity you would still have Islam as a religion...which condemns homosexuality.

And if you look at all of the traditonal African societies that neither ascribe to Christianity or Islam, can we find any that accepts homosexuality?

 

 

 

Cynique indicated, science is showing people are born this way. It will however take time a long time for homosexulaity to become more universally accepted, probably as long as it will take people to dispense with racial-driven stereotypes.


I do believe human sexuality for the most part is a predisposition, however that doesn't make all sexuality "normal".

Natural doesn't necessarily equal normal because a percentage of the population are born psychopaths.

Nor do I think it will ever be universally accepted.
I think it may be "tolerated" but not accepted or welcomed....because it is a clear abnormality.
Even most heterosexual children have an aversion to homosexual behavior.

Take little boys in the 1st and 2nd grade who barely even know about sexuality if at all......

Now if a little girl came up and kissed one of them they would probably blush or smile a little.
Very few would say that's nasty and try to hit the girl, most would be shy and bashful while secretely enjoying it.

But if another boy came up and kissed them the same way, most would probably have a gutteral reaction of "yuck" , or one of anger pushing the boy away or even hitting him.



Look......

My position isn't to condemn homosexuals or punish them for being who they are.
My position is that we as Black people...both in America and abroad....should be the ones who decide what OUR morals will be and what we will and will not accept.

It shouldn't be force on us from the outside.

 

 

 

 


Cynique
 

I'm wasn't talking about how a black female would react to a white male saying what you said. I asked how you knew whether a white female wouldn't have reacted the same way, had a white man said to her what you said to a black female,


I'm sorry I didn't read that correctly.
To be honest, I think a White female's reaction to a White male saying something like that would be FAR WORSE. She'd probably turn red and tell him to "fuck off" or somehow make it verbally clear that his comment was unwelcomed.

But this is because flirting and the warmth that Black men and women traditionally showed to eachother during social interactions is UNCOMMON among most White people, especially in Western society.
Sexuality and public displays of sexuality are often shunned, condemned, disapproved of.

But that's not us.

I don't now about the 60s but in the 70s ad early 80s Black men and women who didn't even know eachother still called eachother "baby" and "honey" every other sentence.


I'm not homophobic.
But I have family from the West Indies on both sides and I can tell you for a fact, there WERE NO BLACK CARRIBEAN WOMEN taking on gay men as "confidants" and "best friends" back in the old days.

Ofcourse homosexuality existen, but it was hidden and kept in the closet because it wasn't seen as acceptable back then like it is today.

In places like St. Kitts and Greneda if a man was caught being a "batty boy" the women of the family would get together and beat the hell out of him before the men got to him.
I don't approve of that treatment of homosexuals.
But it gives you an idea of how far we've came as a people where that which was once vehemently rejected is now embraced.


 

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But this is because flirting and the warmth that Black men and women traditionally showed to eachother during social interactions is UNCOMMON among most White people, especially in Western society.
Sexuality and public displays of sexuality are often shunned, condemned, disapproved of.

I totally disagree with your assertion about white people. They do engage in public displays of affection; I've witness this all my life, and they don't shun or disapprove of sexuality.They are demonstrative, horny and freaky just like everybody else even if they happen to use different terms of endearment. Do you live in a cave?  Where do you get these ideas? 

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Again the sterotypes are killing your reasoning pioneer. The quote of yours that  Cynique disputed is absurd on its face.

 

As far as a traditional African cultures that accepted homosexuality and was not influenced by islam or judism... try all of them. 

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I don't understand heterosexual males or females who are so upset about males or females who are gay. What difference does it make to you who someone loves? Also, how does a black person not see that condemnation of gays involves the same dynamic patterns as racism? It never made sense to me.

 

My brotherfriend, Alan, is gone now, but I miss him every day. He would have been another male in our son's life-- joining my life partner, my life partner's brother, and another gay brotherfriend--who was a sterling example of a kind, loving, intelligent African American man.

 

Alan, a gay black man,  was a director/actor/writer who was in my life for a few brief years. He encouraged me to collaborate with him on writing a  play based on Ida B. Wells's autobiography. We had both read it as part of a black book club, focusing on reading books about African American History, that we had  co-founded. Alan had given me comments on an early draft and was about to start writing his revisions when he contracted AIDS. He was in the first group of  people to get mowed down by this disease in the '80s. He died on Christmas day at the age of 36.

 

I stopped working on the play as I grieved his death, but I received the message that I must get back to work and finish the play. Twenty-three drafts later, I did that and dedicated the play to him. "In Pursuit of Justice: A One-Woman Play about Ida B. Wells," ultimately won four AUDELCO awards.

 

My life was enriched by knowing Alan and having him as a friend.

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Troy

 

As far as a traditional African cultures that accepted homosexuality and was not influenced by islam or judism... try all of them.


Come on man, can't Black men stick together or atleast unite on SOMETHING?

It used to be a time where unless a Black man was actually gay himself, you could rely on your brother backing you up in acknowledging that.....right or wrong....homosexuality was routinely condemned in Black culture and that the acceptance of it came from OUTSIDE of our community....usually from White culture.

How many Africans have you met who told you that homosexuality was accepted ANYWHERE in their country or culture whether it was Christianity, Islam, or traditional?

I haven't met one yet.

 

 



Wendy

 

I don't understand heterosexual males or females who are so upset about males or females who are gay. What difference does it make to you who someone loves?

Because of 2 reasons:

1. More women who practice homosexuality means less available women for me as a heterosexual man to chose from.
Black men who aren't wealthy are already limited in their sexual options.
Lesbianism takes even more of those options away.

2. The more homosexuality is encouraged in the Black community the less sex men and women will be having with eachother....which will in turn lower the birth rate.






Also, how does a black person not see that condemnation of gays involves the same dynamic patterns as racism? It never made sense to me.

Because it's not.

Homosexuality is condemned in most major monotheistic religions, and because of this there is a strong moral foundation for the aversion and condemnation of homosexuality.

Although racism has a long history and strongly practiced, their is no moral argument for it's practice like there is for being anti-homosexual.


I'm trying not to sound insensitive to the death of your friend.
He sounds like he was a productive brother and I'm not taking that value away from him because he was homosexual. 
But the fact is, since the 60s there has a been an agenda from OUTSIDE the Black community to push homosexuality and other forms of sexual deviancy ON TO the Black community.

And this kills two birds with one stone:

1. It lowers the Black birth rate.
2. It tears the community apart because you have Black people who either ARE homosexual or SUPPORT homosexual loved ones fighting with those who CONDEMN homosexuality as a sin or see it as a non-productive way of life.

The energy we're using to fight with eachother over a practice that is NOT a part of African culture could be used to build stronger healthier families among ourselves.

And q
uite frankly, it irriates me that so many Black women love running to the defense of deviant Black men.

If they aren't defending thugs, criminals, and dead-beats......they're standing up for and defending homosexuals and transvestites.

It's as if White men have unzipped Black women's backs....crawled up inside of them....and are now using their bodies to push THEIR agendas.

Why would a heterosexual Black women DEFEND a Black man who has sex with another man or where's a dress and acts like a woman?

Why?

I could understand it more if most women just remained neutral and didn't have anything to say about gay men one way or the other, but the fact that so many actually come out to DEFEND gay Black men and fight for them....is what puzzles me.

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Pioneer1

 

I don't know where to begin, but I am  only going to deal with some aspects of your argument, because I know that your mindset is so different from mine that there is no way we can do anything but agree to disagree.

 

I see people as individuals and don't lump them into rigid groups. As a lifelong outsider, I am most interested in people who are different from me. Yes, there is usually some intersection of commonality, but I learn most from people who look at life through a different lens. As such, I tend to have friends who are also outsiders in some way. They have always been much more intriguing to me than people who spout some version of the party line. I have a hard time breathing freely around them.

 

First, I want to say thank you for that humane paragraph about the death of my brotherfriend. You looked at him as an individual, not as an abstraction or part of a group that you have stereotyped.

 

I'll begin at the end. I am truly disturbed by the Great Yam's policies which are gutting our social safety net and destroying what is left of the planet.

 

But no, I am not "disturbed or repulsed" by people--whose Creator made them who they are--being who they are. I will not quote bible and verse to you because I am a spiritual person, not a religious one. But prostitutes were included in the group of people that Jesus gathered around him. "Love thy neighbor" includes the neighbor who is gay or transvestite.

 

You do give white people a lot of credit and black people very little. Is it not possible for black men and women to decide on their own what they will and will not "condemn"? How do you condemn a person for being who s/he is anyway?

 

It is somewhat amusing that you see the pool of heterosexual black women, assuming that you are restricting yourself to black women--and I am not saying you should--I believe that people are free to love whomever they love--as all being available to you.

 

Black Lesbians are not the only black women who would not be available to you. Some would not see you as their type. Some don't speak your language or languages, if you are multilingual. And on and on. At any rate, unless you are looking for a harem, you are only looking for one woman.

 

I am sure that the pool is not so depleted by the less than 10% of black women who are gay--I know that in most cultures 10% of the people are gay, but don't know the breakdown by gender or race--that would stop you from finding a life partner, if that's what you want.

 

As far as the birth rate goes, being gay does not stop you from having children if you want them. Gays can have children either through adoption, with the help of a surrogate, or the children they had when they thought you were heterosexual.  I know gay people who have children and grandchildren.

 

Two black gay men I know, one of whom is another brotherfriend, adopted two little boys whose mother, a single parent, died. She was a relative of one of the partners. They raised those two boys--both heterosexuals, by the way--and now they are grandparents since one of the young men has a son.

 

Not all heterosexual black women want children, can have children, or would make good parents. So the birth rate is not threatened by people being gay.

 

As for fighting about this. I don't see anybody fighting about this except the people doing the condemning. It is not anything I see worth fighting about.   

 

Read the 19th century racists' moral justifications for slavery, read the 21st century racists' moral justifications for their bigotry. Just replace black people with homosexual and your argument is no different.

 

As for staying neutral about black male and female gays, transvestites, bisexuals and those who are questioning, that would be a betrayal of my brotherfriend. He would stand up for me and I will proudly stand up for him.  If they come for you in the morning...they will come for me in the afternoon. I feel protective of all outsiders because I am one myself.

 

As I said, we will have to agree to disagree. But I am glad we are doing it civilly.

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Wendy

Honestly I've been going back and forth on this subject......homosexuality....for years.

First as a kid I didn't know what it was.
Then as a younger adult who was very "religious" I condemned it.
Then as I got older and learned to think more for myself, think more analytically, and became less religious I TRIED to accept is as just a natural part of life with no threat to our community.
But then as I got even older and looked more into the history of homosexuality, the history of White supremacy, and interacted with Black people from all over this planet.....I began seeing it as a threat to Black society.

So here I am.

Not condeming it, but not welcoming it either.

You mentioned Jesus.
I'm not religious but I do know the Bible.

Jesus said you can COME TO HIM as you are.....but you can't REMAIN like you are.
Once you are in his presence you must clean yourself up and make your body presentable as a temple.
He didn't come to erase the law, but to fulfill it....meaning the law was and is still in effect for those who believe in him and the law strictly prohibits men from sleeping with men.

It's White people who made it ok....not Jesus....so Black Christians need to get a back-bone and decide who their REAL master is.



Now for a scientific point of view, I actually believe that just like mental retardation and people being born blind or deaf.....homosexuality occurs NATURALLY....to a certain extent....in society.
Meaning that, if there were no influences PUSHING homosexuality in the population....a certain percentage of people would STILL be homosexual and BI-sexual as well as A-sexual.
I believe it to be a natural form of birth control.

However I also believe that chemicals have been introduced in our environment to ENCOURAGE many of our people to be born predisposed to homosexuality.
A much higher percentage than normal.


So now you got one group introducing chemicals in the environment that causes more homosexuality and transgenderism in the society.....

And then on the other end of this you have another groups pushing us ACCEPT them instead of scratching our heads trying to figure out why so many of our people are like this TODAY as opposed to 200 years ago.
We as Black people don't control the media....Whites do....and they are the ones who are telling Black people what is and isn't acceptable.


Look at the amount of autism, drug addiction, and alcoholism so many of our children are being born with today. It's not too far fetched to believe that many of our women and men are being introduced to chemicals in the environment (like soy products) that are actually producing an unnaturally higher rate of homosexuals in our community than would naturally or ordinarily would.

 

 

I encourage you to look up a man by the name of Wesley Muhammad and the work he's been doing on the chemicals that have been introduced in the Black community since the 60s to increase the homosexual population among our people and how the synthetic marijunanna that is on the streets of Black America today is also playing a role in feminizing Black men.

I also encourage you to check out a scientist out in California by the name of Tyrone Hayes who has found chemicals in the water of many Black communities around the United States that has been showned to increase the amount of trans-sexualism (species being born half male and half female) among fish and frogs and how these chemicals are being directed at the Black population.

This is not natural sister....our people are being targetted and we have to be wise enough to realize this and not just accept it.

 

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 I would be remiss, if i didn't DISAGREE  with Pioneer's declarations about conspiracy theories that date way back to over  50 years ago - scenarios  which i always find amusing.  Why?  Is there a secret government department run by The Man, one that is concocting chemicals to introduce into the black ghettos via food and marijuana, ingredients that will turn black men into homosexuals? What is the name of this chemical and  is it why black males in these communities are shooting each other up because they are trying to cover up their gay inclinations by exhibiting the macho behavior that leads to settling "beefs" with bullets? 

 

You can come up with sinister plots about anything.  Those who spread these  ideas are usually ones who think they are smarter than everyone else, and cannot be hoodwinked like those who dismiss them.  The Man is really kept busy,  what with the task of making sure lead would be present in The Projects.  He must've been miffed when the gangsta drug dealers beat him to introducing Crack to the ghettos.

 

 

 

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@Wendy Jones I totally agree with everything you said. My favourite line was the harem.

 

Jesus makes an interesting commentary by what he doesn't say about prostitutes. Adultery is against the Ten Commandments. A prostitute is having sex with many men who are not her husband. Jesus didn't say stop whoring it's against the law.

Plus be saved by faith not works indirectly covers a lot 

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LOL @Pioneer1 who know I got your back when we agree (even when we don't).  As I said before, I completely understand your perspective -- many of them I previously shared.  LIttle of what you see in Africa today reflects traditional culture, which is what you asked about. 

 

Modern African (in the cities) are perhaps more influenced by western traditions and religions than Black Americans.  The was the most striking thing I noticed in the three countries I visited.  It can be 90 degrees and 90% humidity and brothers are wearing three piece suits to the office.  Virtually all the professional women have their hair straightened, or have it covered with a wig or head wrap.  Skin lightening cream is widely available and visible in drug stores.  So if they have even harsher views on homosexuality today, that is not surprising.  Bt again this has nothing to do with traditional cultures.

 

I'm not gay but I also understand some people are born that way.  Still others may chose to "swing" in that direction.  In a free culture this has to be allowed.  As long as it does not involved children, forcing the behavior on others, or infringes on others rights, why should I care?

 

I think people tend to overshare on the sexual predilictions more than necessary anyway.

 

All of your conspiracy theories ignore that fact the there are a lots of white people who are gay too. Is there a conspiracy against them too, or are they just collateral damage?  Again, your racial bias blinds you to the fact that homosexuality is human condition one's so called "race" is irrelevant.  

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Cynique, Del, Troy

I think you all are missing my greater point.

It's not about whether or not people are born gay or become gay....I also believe most homosexuals ARE predisposed to be.

Nor is it even about the morality of homosexuality or whether or not it's acceptable.

My point is,  IF someone from outside of the Black community is actively trying to promote homosexuality inside our community....should we not be concerned?

 

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You mean someone like me @Pioneer1

 

What are you talking about?  What community are you talking about and who outside of it is trying to promote homosexulaity? Has someone from France come to your door and try to turn you out?  Please be more specific.

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The major media in the United States promote homosexuality as normal and acceptable.

Most of the Universities in the United States promote homosexuality as normal and acceptable.

There are laws in every state that protect homosexuals from being discriminated against because of their homosexuality.

Infact there are many internet sites that prohibit you from speaking badly about homosexuality or homosexuals.

And although I'm not sure I've heard from multiple people that there are conditions being attached to foreign aid from the United States that certain countries in Africa and the Carribean must not discriminate against homosexuals in their nations if they want to continue to receive assistance.


In almost every case with the above mentioned, these are NON-BLACK people at the top decision making level trying to force people.....many if not most of whom are Black....to accept homosexuality and not criticize it in any way with threat of some sort of punishment.
 

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Here's an article from the New York Times about how the U.S.has admitted to PROMOTING homosexuality in Africa:
 

 

"Since 2012, United States officials said, the American government has spent more than $41 million specifically to promote gay rights globally, along with a portion of $700 million earmarked for marginalized groups to support gay communities and causes. More than half of the $700 million, and $6.6 million of the $41 million, was spent on sub-Saharan Africa — just one indication of the continent’s importance to the new policy."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/21/world/africa/us-support-of-gay-rights-in-africa-may-have-done-more-harm-than-good.html



Is the fact that over 300 million dollar was spent to support homosexual communities in Africa enough proof that they are PROMOTING homosexuality among Black people?

The question you should be asking yourself is WHY are they doing this?

Why is it so important to get Black people to change their mind and accept homosexuality?
 

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@Pioneer1, you speak as if the major media and Universities don't have Black people in them.  

 

My God man, did you even read the article?  If you did, you clearly did not understand it.  The American government is not promoting homosexuality; they are promoting civil rights for Gay people.  There is a big difference.  Do you did read that it was the Obama administration that led the effort?  Is he part of this conspiracy of yours too?

 

One statement from the article made my earlier point

 

"Same-sex relations remain illegal in most nations, the legacy of colonial laws that had been largely forgotten until the West’s push to repeal them in recent years."

 

In any event, instead of asking me (us) why these things are happening why don't you just tell us.  But then you'd have to explain why there is so much support for white homosexuals--or is that just to throw us off the track of the real agenda--whatever that might be.  Please enlighten us.

 

 

 

 

 

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Gay people have made so many great contributions to all areas, particularly in the sector of the Arts, that they inspire the support of influential institutions who accept them and appreciate their talents. 

 

I still want to know the name of this chemical being introduced into the black communities that can affect the sexual orientation of straight men. Once it is identified, straight guys can avoid anything of sustenance that contains it - if they so choose.   

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I guess my last post on this disappeared into cyberspace. But I will repeat a few salient points.

 

Which of these African Americans who have contributed or are contributing mightily to African American culture--known to be either gay or bisexual--do you, Pioneer 1, wish had not been born?

 

James Baldwin, Bayard Rustin, Langston Hughes, Lorraine Hansberry, and Alice Walker.

 

Also, how are our gay, bisexual, transgendered, and questioning sisters and brothers not part of our community? All of whom, by the way, are reading what you are saying. Just as you were sensitive to the death of my brotherfriend, please be sensitive to our fellow community members.

 

What you are doing is very similar to what white racists were doing throughout the 19th and 20th Century discussing the "Negro Problem." Our fellow human beings are not abstractions. They are our sisters and brothers.

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Troy

You asked me:
"
What are you talking about? What community are you talking about and who outside of it is trying to promote homosexulaity? "

I provided you with not only clear evidence but absolute PROOF from a main-stream well respected media source (NYT) that the West is actually PROMOTING homosexuality among Black people in Africa.
Infact the word "promote" is in the very article!

But instead of conceding and considering that I may have a point.....you decide to ignore the very exerpt you asked for and found OTHER bits and pieces of the article.
Bits and pieces that don't even contradict or oppose what I've said, but just takes the focus away from it.

I'm beginning to believe that you really don't want know whether what I'm saying is true or not.

I'm beginning to believe.....that your mind is already made up brother.





Cynique

I still want to know the name of this chemical being introduced into the black communities that can affect the sexual orientation of straight men. Once it is identified, straight guys can avoid anything of sustenance that contains it - if they so choose.

One of them is called ATRAZINE.

A Black scientist named Tyrone Hayes out of UC Berkely discovered that it was in the water supply and turning a lot of animals homosexual.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z5MA_5Zfb0


But if your mind is made up that no chemical such as this exists.....well.
 

 
 


Wendy

Which of these African Americans who have contributed or are contributing mightily to African American culture--known to be either gay or bisexual--do you, Pioneer 1, wish had not been born?

James Baldwin, Bayard Rustin, Langston Hughes, Lorraine Hansberry, and Alice Walker.


None
They weren't great BECAUSE of their sexuality, but INSPITE of it.


 

Also, how are our gay, bisexual, transgendered, and questioning sisters and brothers not part of our community? All of whom, by the way, are reading what you are saying. Just as you were sensitive to the death of my brotherfriend, please be sensitive to our fellow community members.


Who said they are not part of the community?
 

BTW.....
I'm glad the "questioning" sisters and brothers are reading what I'm saying because perhaps some of their questions may be answered.


 

What you are doing is very similar to what white racists were doing throughout the 19th and 20th Century discussing the "Negro Problem." Our fellow human beings are not abstractions. They are our sisters and brothers.

There are a lot of Black men and women who sell dope to our people also.....doesn't mean I support their behavior and encourage it.

We can love the person without co-signing the behavior.


Instead of making up arguments over things I've never said, why don't you consider the possibility that you are being brainwashed into accepting that which is immoral and against the teachings of Jesus.....by those who want to trick you into hell.

 

 

Public Announcement:
 

It's clear to me that I'm alone in this thread and no amount of evidence, proof, or sound argument is going to convince people who's positions are set and minds are made up.

If after this you 3 continue to ignore any good points I've made and pretend I didn't make them, argue against strawmen statements that I've never made and attribute them to me, or just remain quiet about anything you DO agree with me on only to focus on disagreement........


I don't see a logical reason for me to go further on this particular topic.


It's not the original subject of the thread anyway.

*Although they do typically go hand in hand because almost everytime you find a woman criticizing the behavior of Black men.....strangely that same woman loves GAY Black men.
You never hear a woman who criticizes Black men, talking about how no good, weak, and trifling so many of them are.....criticizing GAY Black men or calling them weak.

 

 

 

 

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@Pioneer1You are pathetically grasping at straws, unable to concede that your argument is lame.  I can't believe that you can't distinguish between America promoting gay rights, and America supporting a surreptitious plot to feminize black males!  Gay rights are about the right of human beings of a certain sexual orientation in certain intolerant countries to be free from discrimination. They are not a case of America publicly supporting an operation  that  will transform  black males from straight to gay - for some reason that you can't come up with.  

 

And, yes, my mind is made up about your claims in regard to a chemical that has been known about for 50 years and has been shown to make some rats gay,  and is secretly being released into the hood to feminize baby daddys.  For one thing, if this is factual,  the plot isn't working except in the imagination of paranoid people who don't seem to take into consideration that society's growing acceptance of homosexuality among all ethnics is a factor in causing more  men to come out of the closet, rather than their ingesting something that made rodents swish when they scurry around.  And it's not as if homosexuality doesn't naturally occur in all animal species.  Or is it like the inner cities are not rampant with horny young straight  men knockin' up the girlfriends eager to post their positive pregnancy test results on FaceBook.  

 

You like to portray yourself as the voice of reason and logic, while accusing everyone else of being obstinate when it comes to rejecting what is stuck inside your thick skull.  But  it's you who don't think things out to their logical conclusion.  You stop at the point where to go further would reveal that most of your kooky notions prove more about your fallibility than ours. 

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I can't imagine what type of promotion makes being eith a man appealing to me.

Having women problems. We have the solution. Date men.

 

Date another woman and the toilet seat stays down. 

 

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