Cynique

The only people eager to sympathize with the whites who support Donald Trump, are other white people, moderates who want to portray Trumpites as poor misunderstood souls who feel neglected, threatened and ridiculed but are really good people who should be reached out to rather than villainized. Black people do the same thing, They defend other blacks no matter how wrong they are, portraying them as victims of racism and injustice, who attend bad schools and can't find jobs, losers who, if given an equal chance, would all be productive upstanding people. In reality, Trump's followers are either overt or covert bigots full of resentment toward anybody who doesn't look like them or adhere to a conventional life style. Similarly, a certain element of blacks are gang-bangers and chronic law breakers, slovenly ghettoites, or slick, self-serving hustlers. People don't want to give up on the worst among their group, hoping they can fit them into a category that re-classifies them as being different from what they really are. The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions. The truth hurts but denial takes the sting out of it. Prejudiced white folks ain't gonna change, and jive-assed black ones ain't either. They are what they are. Deep down inside white folks know they are in danger of extinction. Eventually, black ones will realize they will be absorbed by browness. Common ground? When the deal goes down, a matter of survival will force each side to unite with their own kind. If a showdown ever comes, there will be no common ground.

Here is some anecdotal evidence that can be taken into consideration. Back in the early '80s I belonged to a social club made up of about 10 girlfriends who were either childhood pals or college chums. We met once and month to eat and greet and gossip. Men always ended up being the topic of our juicy conversation. This group was a good cross section of married black sistas and the men in our lives were not all cut from the same cloth. A couple of the women complained about their husbands being dead beats who once they go married seemed to have lost interest in sex. Others claimed that their mates wanted it all the time. Still others said they sex lives were adequate, with 2 or 3 times a week being the norm. One woman shared her experiences with a stalker who only had eyes for her and wouldn't leave her alone til he finally gave up. None suspected that their mates were straying, and a couple of the more adventurous one confessed that if their husband cheated on them, they would use this as an excuse to cheat on him. What was notable was that we women had all hooked up with men who were mostly content to stay with one woman. A couple did get divorced later on but adultery was not the reason. The black population according to the latest census was estimated at about 47, 000, 000 and to say that black males run the gamut from womanizers to faithful husbands would seem to be a reasonable deduction. Of course all men have eyes for appealing women, but many have enough control to weigh their options as to what's in their own best interest and choose to look but not touch. A study showed that married men live longer than single ones. That's something to think about.

@Pioneer1 i don't agree with that ambiguous argument. Just because you contradict my statement, doesn't mean you've disproved it. You simply offered your opposing point of view in which, as usual, you overstep your bounds as a self-appointed authority on African Americans. Or are you even an authority of what life in Africa is or was like. You provide nothing to support what you set forth as facts, and your use of the word "perversion" can be applied to your own ideas of how blacks should live in American society because what's "normal" to one person is "abnormal" to another. What i have stated above is an objective and accurate description, free of editorializing and pouting.

@Troy OK. We cool.

Whatever.

@Pioneer1Name one escapade or fantasy i EVER shared on this board. That is what I mean when i refer to YOU lying and making up stuff because all the scenarios about my boy toy were posted by YOU except for my brief reference to him in my satirical piece when i poked fun at everybody From the very beginning, as soon as i casually made a remark about a 72 year old, boy toy, YOU took it and ran with, posting pictures and coming up with the term "stud muffin", something i never used,- talking about cruises when i've never been on a cruse in my life. YOU are who posted pictures, of old white men saying they were him. YOU are who i regularly accused of being fixated on me having boy toy, a name that my kids gave to a friend of mine who occasionally takes me places. I played along with your obsession just once when i posted a picture of handsome young man who was obviously, not someone who would be dating me. I tried to shut you down by teasing you about you having a blow up doll, but that only encouraged to you to come up with more made-up scenarios. So quit trying to draw attention away from you and your lies. My friend is a real person. Your made up stuff was just that.

@TroyWe obviously are at odds as you defend yourself from the label that i used when defending myself from the one you used to describe me. So this old lady from a suburb of Chicago who you have decided holds in contempt the "large swaths of this country that don't agree with abortion, out of wedlock birth, homosexuality, consumption of alcohol, and all the other practices you city slickers seem to enjoy", will leave you to stew in the resentment that is the result of your not being able to take what you dish out. I might add that not only don't you not know anything about my moral compass, but where do you get the information that small town America in more prudish than urban American? Their populations do just as much dirt as anywhere else in this country, especially in rural parts. And the so-called religious ones are the biggest offenders. Where do you think the term "shot gun marriage" originated And the "respectable" middle class are the ones who have abortions to get rid of the indiscretions that might disgrace the family name. And let's not over the town drunk that is a familiar character. I can only assume that the "Peyton Place" and The Kinsey Report are before your time. Moving right along, what originally sparked my input into this discussion, were the comments being tossed around about the lifestyle of this country not being an environment that is compatible with the natural instincts of African Americans in regard to their sexuality and their affinity for polygamy. For the umpteenth time, all i am saying is that adult black people are free to indulge their desires in these areas as long as they don't rape adult females or commit statutory rape against minors under the age of 17. I also noted that, horny black men with a penchant for variety are free to keep a bunch of common-law wives under the same roof. And black females of any age are free to procreate as much as they choose. Taking all of this into consideration was enough for me to argue that this country does not inhibit the natural desires of African Americans. All of this other stuff about hair and colorism and injustice are a different matter. And your marijuana example is really weak inasmuch as this natural plant is not indigenous to Africa, and is no more desired by blacks than whites, and the fact that it is readily available is just another indication that this society is not repressive. Selling it is a crime that dealers of any color will be arrested for. Inequity in regard to who gets the stiffest penalties falls under the category of "injustice" not sexual repression.

OK. . Righteous indignation permeated your whole attitude as you proceeded to show me the error of my ways. That is a arrogant presumption delivered from your pedestal, an assessment that ignores the fact that i never condoned any of these sins that apparently offend your noble sensibilities In another instance after I told you 17 was the age of consent, you decided to focus on age 15, grilling me, trying to elicit a judgmental testimony from me. But you wouldn't leave it at that. You went off on tangents bringing my adult daughters into the picture as if to shame me for not being appalled by the thought of them being promiscuous. Then - you condescended to forgive me for perhaps not being as depraved as you assumed i am. Last but not least, you keep referring to my "views" in spite of the fact i have not expressed any personal views about this subject. i have simply provided information as to why, all things considered, American society is not an unnatural repressive one constrained by western values.

It is apparently not clear to you because you have cruised into straw man territory, veering off into projection side roads, lecturing to me about things which i have not rendered an opinion on. i've never said that everybody in this country approves of the behavior that adults are free to indulge in this society, and i didn't express my approval of everything adults are free to do. Or have i belittled moral codes as you imply. These are all things you conjured up to refute. What book of morality are you referring to? You're the one who has set himself up as a paragon of virtue, whose example i should follow. If you think i have "puritanical" values, why would you "accuse" me of being liberal? Make up your mind, or check the definition of the word puritanical if you can stop being inconsistent long enough to do this.

I'm not trying to justify destructive behavior. You have cited bad examples to fortify your arguments. But not everything that people are influenced into buying is bad for them. Some purchases may prove beneficial and worthwhile. If manipulation is such a powerful tool, how can the black males in Chicago be manipulated into stopping the wanton and often random murders of their own people? They seem to be very gullible, - prime targets for manipulation. What can be done to influence them to make different choices. Lord knows everybody is trying to bring this about, but nothing seems to work. Maybe these offenders really have minds of their own, - like other so-called targets of manipulation.

@TroyNothing you say has anything to do with the point i am trying to make in response to you and Pioneer insisting that this society with its white western values is a puritanical one that represses people's natural instincts. The gist of what i am saying is that this is actually a pretty free-wheeling society we live in. i am not talking about the necessity of moral codes. That's another subject. And i can't believe you don't know "the age of consent" when it comes to sex. Anybody over 17 is free to engage in sex with anyone they choose, as long as it is mutually agreed upon. They just have to deal with whatever personal consequences ensue from this. But it is not something they are legally forbidden to do. And it's also not against the law for any single female to have a baby. Abortion is more contested than this. When statutory rape enters the picture then the law steps in. This is how it goes in this white western country. i have no idea what the rules are in the African sphere where Pioneer, especially, seems to think that anything goes when it comes to black folks gettin their groove on in the course of being "natural". Incidentally, my daughters and granddaughters are all over the age of 17 and i don't meddle in their personal lives. I trust them to be mature enough to do what's best for themselves inasmuch as my disapproval would probably fall on deaf ears. 

@TroyBeing manipulated by the commercial world is a fact of life, and is the name of the game that incorporates the supply and demand principle. People are not as naive about this as you seem to think. They just don't care. They want enjoyment out of life and they don't have a problem with letting those with technical and creative expertise provide them with status symbols that make them happy and placebos that give them false hope. As for cigarettes and liquor advertisinment, they do not saturate the inner cities anymore after complaints about their bill boards appearing there. Enterprising companies cater to consumers. Why wouldn't they? And the public is made up of those who work for the manufacturers who produce and provide the goods and services they purchase. They are scratching each other's backs, and this helps the economy. Have you forgotten this is a capitalistic country? If you had your way, everyone would lead a Spartan existence, never indulging themselves, ever on the alert lest they be exploited by the dreaded manipulation mafia. i never said you are telling women how to dress. But you are advocating how they should wear their hair. And please don't say i am advocating skin lightening inasmuch as i didn't recommend it. And actually, i don't have to advocate these best selling products because many black women use them to simply even out their skin tones. No bleaching cream is going to turn an ebony colored woman into an ivory colored one. Michael Jackson claimed he had alopecia and he had his skin professionally bleached so that he would be all one color instead of speckled. @Chevdove Hummm. Interesting. i'm from a suburb of Chicago. I wore my hair in a bouffant Angela Davis Afro all during the 60s and 70s and i never heard of the term "TWA". either. After a while .women around here did start cutting their Afro's down close, but i never knew this style had a name or do i recall them wearing the kind of chokers you described. Maybe it's a regional thing or maybe i just wasn't hip to this because i was in my 40s during that era.

??? i am not making any judgments. I am simply saying that this Western World Society is not as repressed and as inhibited as you and Pioneer have been claiming it to be, and 2 examples of this are that consenting adults are free to do whatever they want when it comes to sex. And nobody is stopping single, adult females from having babies if they so choose. The only consequences to doing these things is the possible disapproval of those who think of themselves as "respectable" or "conventional" people.

Well, what i'm basically saying, is: "so what if European standards do influence black women?" Self-esteem is the real issue. You say that black women who emulate Europeans standards have low self-esteem. i say that self-esteem is in the eye of the beholder and women themselves are who determine what self esteem represents to them. Not men who want to impose their definitions on us. And i disagree that my metaphor is reaching. All "beauty" has it's origin in nature, and enhancement is a factor in highlighting beauty. European standards of beauty talk about rose bud lips, and sky blue eyes and lily white skin and flaxen hair. Other ethnics can and do find examples in nature to compare themselves to. When they attempt to adopt western standards of beauty they simply work with what they have.

This is not what i implied when i spoke of "single adult women deciding to have a child". Many single women nowadays who have not found someone they want to marry, are opting for artificial insemination or employing sperm donors because they have decided they want a child before they get too old. They are usually career woman well equipped to take care of themselves and their child. They don't get a lot of flack about this. Also, i am not undermining a structured society with moral standards. i am just saying that people are free to circumvent it if they so choose; some do so boldly, others are more discreet.

The law says Pioneer can't have multiple common-law wives living with him? Consenting adults can't have sex anytime they want to without the benefits of marriage? Single, adult females are ostracized for deciding to have a child? Come on.

But you are the one who constantly brings up this subject; always playing the "72 year old boy-toy" card when you can't come up with a response, and are left to resort to posting phony pictures and telling silly lies. It's your "go-to" diversionary tactic when all else fails. I claim to have a 72 year old boy toy because i like to poke fun at myself. Something your ego would never allow you to do.

The problem i have with this study as well as the older one is that it placed too much emphasis on how adults interpret children's reactions. The goal in taking a test to is to "pass" it. Those being tested, select that answer which they hope is "right" whether it's their opinion or not.Some of these kids seemed rather cautious in their answers. So it's possible that they tell the tester what they think she/he wants to hear. Especially if the tester if white. And just because a black child points to a dark doll as being ugly or bad or dumb, doesn't necessarily mean the feel that they, themselves, are like that doll. I really don't think that in the year 2018, black kids are preoccupied with whether white kids are better than they are. They are more concerned about whether they might get shot by an evil white cop.

Who is to say what's natural? Natural compared to what? It's natural to try and survive. As nature takes its course, however things sort themselves out is natural. Randomness is not unnatural. I continue to embrace the "survival of the fittest" principle and the "it is, what it is" philosophy. The state of the world today is not abnormal; it's is simply a situation called "Life". As for polygamy, in the animal kingdom, some species mate for life, others don't. It's the same among humans; it just depends on the individual. Marriage is a choice. Being a bachelor is accepted in society. Single women are no longer stigmatized. Having children outside of marriage is now an acceptable option. People are free to choose whatever lifestyle works for them. Pioneer continues to complain about this western-influenced repressive society as if marriage and monogamy are mandatory. They are not. What's stopping him from being the head of a household that consists of more than one mate willing to accommodate his desire for variety?

What did the present system devolve from? Your version of what is natural? Which would be sexual communes where everybody was free to screw everybody else, and wild untamed hair was be mandatory, and government would be run by whomever drew the longest straw and industry would consist of scratching around for food and water.

@TroyWell, maybe if you took off your blinders and relinquished your role as the Great Grand PooBah of how black women are obligated to look, you wouldn't be so frustrated. Perhaps these Nigerian women appreciate manageable lustrous hair they can flip round because it reminds them of flowing silk instead of immobile wool, and skin color resembling beaming copper that shows off their face, instead dense onyx which absorbs it. They might be inspired just as much by Nature as by Europe. And where is it written, except in your mind, that people have to settle for their looks, if they can change them and become another version of themselves? Self-esteem has many facets, but you and others want to decree what facet black women are obligated to reflect. You all think the criteria you want to impose on black women are preferable to European ones, disregarding the complex aesthetics of the female psyche. Furthermore, transforming her appearance can boost a woman's moral enough to improve her effectiveness in other areas of her life. You may be appalled by this idea, - but so what? Whatever the motivation for modifying their looks, since Nigerian woman have not anointed you as their Savior and Redeemer, you'll just have to fall back on the "denial" explanation you cling to because you can't accept the idea that a woman has to learn to like herself, and it's her prerogative to choose what self she wants to like.

@TroyDid you miss this post? i didn't exactly ignore your question about your 8 year old video about dolls. BTW, in the real world, black kids have always appreciated seeing characters who look like them in the books they read and the movies they watch. Your perspective needs broadening. @Mel Hopkins Congrats on your EBONY cover!

@TroyWell, in the video i saw the black kids were just as prejudiced against white kids as white kids were against them. So how bad can their self-esteem be? i was, however, struck by how one little black girl used the term "light-skinned" instead of "white" when she referred to one of the figures. "Light-skinned" is a black term used to refer to other blacks. So her answer takes on different implications. Were you expecting me to be surprised by the results? Didn't i just write an essay absurdly suggesting that what black folks need to do to solve their problems is to find a way to change the color of their skin? Like i said, my argument with you and Pioneer was about your over-emphasis on hair. America is what it is. and blacks are who they are. Time and time again, i remind that this country is not Utopia. It a white-controlled society dominated by institutionalized racism and it is not interested in sharing the power with its black minority. To continue implying that blacks would excel if only they acted like Africans instead of Europeans remains to be seen. and is a waste of time. It has also been established over and over that blacks are not a monolithic group, which is why i have no problem with individuals among them doing their own thing, using their skill-sets and talents to work The System to their advantage. More power to them. As for Beyonce, i think she rocks. She's an inspiration to ambitious black women.

@TroyOK. Obviously, my feeling is that the role of black hair in our society is much ado about nothing. To me, it is a superficial issue inasmuch as a woman's hair style, for whatever reason, has nothing to do with her innate ability to accomplish what she is capable of. Hair is just a blip in the black radar and has little to do with combating racism. I think that anybody who figures out a way to surmount racism is far more admirable than a black woman who decides to wear her hair natural because this makes her feel like she is honoring her ties to the continent whose tribesmen were among those who sold her ancestors into slavery - the same ancestors who were creative enough to figure out a way to make their hair more manageable, an art which became a part of their indigenous African-American culture. And as i previously contended, black women have evolved and assimilated enough into the dominant mainstream culture to wear their hair anyway they please without having their self-esteem questioned. And their skin color is actually an accessory to all the other accoutrements of style. Self-esteem, itself, is a blurred issue. You talked about the folly of everyone on a little league team receiving a trophy because to do otherwise would harm the self-esteem of the little darlings on the losing team. Self-esteem comes from within, not without and it rises once a person goes out into the real world and proves one's self. It can't simply be handed out to the unproven by those with questionable intentions. And once again I say that the same ones bemoaning black hair choices come up with all kinds of rationales and excuses for single black women's unchecked breeding of children, especially fatherless male ones who grow up to become the work force of the notorious prison industry. If these critics were as concerned about the dire ramifications of the baby-mama/baby-daddy culture as they are about synthetic hair, maybe I'd be impressed. As for Beyonce, i am not a rabid fan of hers or her music, but i give credit where credit is due, something you have steadfastly declined to do. Her VOGUE take-over is a feat that broke down racial barriers while reaching a wide audience. That's empowerment and her hair played only a minor role in this. A spread in a black magazine amounts to little more than preaching to the choir. This is true because White, Hispanic and Asian women are just as prone to this behavior as black ones are. Wanting to emulate a paragon transcends "race".

No, we don't all know this to "still" be true. This is what certain black men prefer to think because you are stuck in the past and religiously preserve this scenario because it's dramatic and full of bathos and repeated so much that has dissolved into the realm of lore. But the reality is that little black girls - when they do play with dolls, - don't prefer European looking dolls with blond hair and blue eyes anymore. They choose ones who look like themselves, and these types of dolls are plentiful and popular. Black barbie-type dolls have been around for decades and are a staple in the toy collections of black girls. The American Doll which is the end-all and be-all in the doll industry market put out a special addition of a black doll with caramel skin and thick abundant black hair and, as expensive as it was, was a big seller. Even white manufacturers knew there was a big market for black dolls and capitalized on it. Look around at all the little black girls nowadays. They all have corn rows or long braided extension, in the color and texture of their natural hair. BTW, few platinum blondes are natural ones. White women are all bottled blonds. Asians and Hispanics also change their hair color. But you guys continue to exaggerate, generalize, and embrace the stereotypes about black females, insisting that not wearing their hair natural dilutes their empowerment, ignoring how money doesn't give a damn about the appearance of who's making and spending it. In a room full of professional black females, how many of them would have long blond weaves? Maybe a 1/4 of them. There would be a smattering who would have short bleached-blond or red AFROS. The rest would have their hair styled in a variety of ways. These sistas would be in there, styling and taking care of business, not dwelling on something that certain black men are fixated on. In a country where brown skin and black hair will soon be the majority, white people are who should be worried about perpetuating European standards - and they are. That's what Trumpism is mostly about. Check out the upcoming issue of VOGUE which was taken over and published exclusively by Beyonce, who even hired a black photographer to do all the shots. From what has been leaked about this issue, she has revealed a lot of things about her private life, stripped herself bare and has some very interesting things to say on this subject. And expand on your belief about how black women superficially glamourizing themselves is so detrimental in the changing world of the 21st century.