Cynique

Not to worry. You've found Del, - your savior and protector from the slings and arrows you are too lame to dodge.

Yes, you were. Loser.

Who said his position was invalid? I acknowledged that income is a criteria. He's the one who is trying to dismiss values. What's emotional and foolish about embracing the conventional wisdom in regard to the difference between blue collar and white collar brackets of middle income? And when did you become the arbitrator in these arguments??Thought you were a impartial spectator except of course when you're complaining about Troy's "style"or about me "projecting". Get outta here.

Puleeze. What would a liar like you know about honesty? What's obvious is that if you could answer what you asked, you'd do it, rather than trying to chide me for not answering the ambiguous irrelevant non sequitur question you posed because you couldn't come up with a coherent response to my question. You're pathetic in your attempt to mask your stupidity.

@Pioneer1You're such a loser. You act as though stating what your position is, legitimizes it. And it doesn't. You're not an authority on anything. You have a degree from Starbucks College of Caffeinated Swill where you majored in opinion as fact, and minored in self-contradiction. You're nothing but a wanna-be who's never gonna-be because you're incapable of conceding your fallibility. (The issue of values is every bit as relevant as income, Dummy.) You try to bluff your way through life but you're not even good at doing that.

Right, Troy! Except for a few predictable "pioneerisms" to muddy the picture, all Pioneer did was regurgitate everything you and i already said when we rebutted his original contentions.

@Pioneer1You turned down my invitation in regard to why white supremacy endures, and i'll return the favor by taking a pass on the non sequitur question you posed.

Well, empathy is at the core of political correctness. So the Liberal segment of the country is feeling the pain of others - to the extent of becoming a pain in the ass because they are going over board in dictating to people how they are obligated to act...

What will they tell me? What people think of themselves is not always accurate when compared to how a sociologist objectively classifies them in the big picture. Politicians lump middle income people altogether because they know voters tend to vote their pocketbooks. But political consultants take other factors into consideration and look for clues that have to do with standards of behavior. A "poor" person can have respectable middle class values. Middle income and rich folks can be unrefined and immoral in spite of what they earn. Millionaire Donald Trump is a prime example of this.

Yet, another occasion to apply the "one person looking at the cow's head and the other peering up her ass" analogy. You are missing the entire point. What does all that "viable alternative" blather have to do with me challenging someone to disprove that Whites remain in world-wide control because they are, indeed, superior to others???

What does an alternative have to do with white supremacy except that if there is one, it obviously is inferior.

The fact that one group is referred to as "blue" collar, and the other group as "white" collar, is how and why society distinguishes the 2 from each other. They are different.

While Del and Troy fall back and re-group, i will respond to Troy's remarks. You were the one up in arms, preaching about him being a "degenerate". i later said the women were drugged in the same post you alluded to. Also the euphemisms were ones the rape victims, themselves, used. You allowed yourself to get caught up in putting your daughters in the place of these rape victims, and this seems to have magnified your empathetic indignation.

@Pioneer1Are you willing to concede that white human beings are, indeed, superior to other groups as witnessed by how they continue to dominate the world? Or do you want to debate this?

There's a difference between middle income and middle class. Hard working blue collar folks can earn enough money to put them in the middle income bracket. But they do not have middle class values, which include being upwardly-mobile when it come to education and employment and the respectfulness of family stability.

I wasn't trying to exonerate Cosby. What ever he did while his victims were asleep, the sex was non consensual. which makes it rape. But, whether it was "degenerate" or not is a matter of opinion, Just because the women were drugged does not mean he was doing freaky things especially if it was something consenting adults would do without giving it a second thought. i think one of the things one woman vaguely remembered him doing was sucking her toes. We seem to be having a problem with the term "assault". To me, it is synonymous with violence. A lot of women prefer the less volatile term "violated" when a man uses her body without her cooperation. This is why rape so often goes unreported because it is so hard to prove, unless the victim has been beaten up.

I'm not prepared to argue about rape either since I'm not an authority on it. Even the courts can't always reach a verdict about it. A college campus might be a good place to take a survey, since rape in all of its variations is a common occurrence there.

Sexual assault is violent. But not all rape involves physical battery. Date rapes are usually just a girl giving in, in spite of not wanting to have sex. The same for marital rape. But- i guess rape is really in the eye of the beholder - or in the "vajayjay" of the victim.

Rape can involve physical assault, or non consensual sex. One is an act of violence, the other is an act of violation. Cosby didn't beat up the women he raped he simply stole him some nooky without their permission. (Many non consensual "rapes" go unreported because, for some women, it ain't that serious nor worth the trouble and this includes marital rape.) Of course, Feminists and Me-tooers don't like to admit this because it dilutes their agenda. i don't dwell on my feelings for Pioneer. My reaction to him is usually a knee-jerk one. As soon as he starts pontificating, thoughts of disagreement just automatically come to mind. His bare-faced lies about my sending racy pictures of myself to him left me nonplussed. Comforting? No. Amusing? Yes. But people with real class don't try to flaunt it, They just let theirs speak for itself. Understatement is a mark class. At least this is the way it used to be. Today, money is the name of the game.

Fortunately, i don't rely on syncophants when i debate. The story about Cosby hiring people to write his dissertation has been floating around for a long time. i think somebody even offered proof of this. I tend to believe it's true because Cosby is the type who thought his money and power allowed him to live by his own rules, not to mention that he's never exhibited any great intellectual prowess. IMO Style is created in attempt to enhance your social status. The kind of class i'm talking about is innate, not social; it has more to do with being well-bred.

@TroyWell, the argument about the value of a college education was thrashed out when Pioneer made his case for black men not really needing to go to college. and got a lot of flack for saying this. Not surprising, no minds were changed and no consensus reached. Considering that Del has advanced degrees, if he so chooses, he is qualified to speak on this subject because he can imagine how deprived his life would be if he didn't have an education. So, what you want him to do is to say you're right and he's wrong when it comes to the desirability of having an advanced education because he is proof of this. He, on the other hand, thinks that since you have admitted there are common exceptions to your generalizations, this absolves him from conceding the point you are trying to make. Incidentally, I don't think the example of Bill Cosby supports either of your arguments because what Bill Cosby has are honorary degrees and ones he acquired by hiring someone else to write his thesis. And his MO of taking advantage of women who passed out after he gave them drugs, wasn't actually violent; it was, instead, despicable and sneaky. Finally, Cosby's "education" wasn't what elevated his lifestyle. His comedic talent. is what earned him fame and fortune. And so it goes... @Deli posted this before i read your response, Del. You are making assumption about my detesting Pioneer. That's a strong word. i'd describe myself as being impatient with him because he thinks he's an expert on black people. And I don't agree that style is the same as class.

I don't know about that. In the soccer mom culture, exploring a cave is not necessarily considered dangerous. White people love adventure! i shed my cynicism when it came to this case. Yes, the situation was tailor-made for a cliff hanger movie. But the danger was real and the kids were quite innocent and vulnerable. And i did want to hear the latest progress reports supplied by the media. I am, however, sick of the media fueled drama in regard to the immigrant chilllldren separated from their paaaarents. And i couldn't care less about Muslim illegals because i hate their religion and their customs. I also love having America exposed as the bigoted xenophobic country that Trump has made it OK to be.

Now the question can be asked: "What do you think of the ongoing battle between Troy and Del?" For me, the old saying about "one looking at the cow's head, while the other is peering up her ass", fits this situation. Not mention that these 2 combatants are caught up in a contest to see who can lay claim to being the most misunderstood. But do they understand themselves? Are they guilty of what we all are? Sometimes failing to see ourselves as others do because of being either too subjective or in denial. Bottom line, personalities invariably get in the way when engaging in a debate. When it comes to a violent reaction to having your momma dissed, which is the bone of contention between Del and Troy, a lot hinges on the connotation given to the word "education". There is such a thing as an "educated fool", while wisdom and good judgment can be learned from the school of hard knocks. Violence is unpredictable because it's emotional. So is there a definitive conclusion as to whether an educated person will handle an insult to his mother better than uneducated one. Only if you replace the word "educated" with the word "sensible" and "uneducated" with the word "impulsive". Are we done yet??? @Del IMO, "class" is an indefinable factor. You either have it, or you don't. It's something money can't buy. Many people fall into the middle income bracket but this is not the same as being middle class because middle class is about your value system, not your pay check. When it comes to style, it can be either good or bad. And, BTW, could you be more specific in accusing me of "projecting" when i make observations about you.

I don't think Trump is a shoo-in for re-election. For one thing, he will be too old - approaching 80 and Republicans will be leery about this. But he will have laid the groundwork for a predecessor to continue the Conservative agenda which will drastically change the American zeitgeist. I think, in the process of change and resistance, "Americans" will one day look around and suddenly realize that, right under their noses, the country will have evolved into a land where people of like minds will have congregated in certain states which will operate independently, no longer beholden to the central government or its laws. Who the president is, will be incidental. This will be a gradual process in a world where change will be occurring on every level. Me? Hopefully my ashes will have been scattered in a flower bed where i will nurture the soil from which petals will annually bloom.

Who's surprised that everybody is pointing fingers when it comes to this debate. i can't resist jumping into the fray. Scuse me, Troy if i steal some of your points. Violence is in a class by itself; it is mindless and spontaneous. Discussing other types of crimes and who commits them is irrelevant to the discussion. The traits which foster and trigger violence in a person are the same ones which make him unlikely to pursue a higher education, a goal which requires discipline and higher intellect. When alcohol becomes a factor, one's metabolism enters the picture and this is something an individual cannot control. An educated person who commits a violent act when inebriated, regrets his lack of good judgment once he sobers up. Most likely the only thing an uneducated person regrets when he sobers up, is that he got beat up or arrested. Mob violence is the result of gullible people being manipulated by agitators. If these agitators are not educated, they are more than likely "smart".