Most Black Leaders didn't advocate for reparations even though most Black people wanted and that made the usa, but it came with a negative price for Black people

[richardmurray]

You know, maybe because of Juneteenth, I have thought about freedom   in the black community in the usa and when black people talk about reparations we mention how most black people wanted it, but we don't mention how black leadership in the usa since the war between the states in majority never advocated for reparations.  No black leadership group has ever truly advocated reparations. The Black church hasn't, the NAACP hasn't, Black colleges hasn't , black elected officials to any party of governance hasnt. So, yes, most black people in the USA have thought of reparations, wanted reparations, but a majority of black leadership in the usa hasn't advocated it, even if they spoke well of it or desired it in private. If our leadership isn't advocating something, no matter how loud we are, it will not be done. With the modern black community in the usa internally more multiracial than ever before, mostly allegiant to the usa more than ever before, more willing to live aside non blacks more than ever before, more financially wealthier in the usa  than ever before, the issue of reparations is least desired today than ever before in the black community in the usa. It doesn't mean reparations isn't warranted, nor is the ower the usa. The ower is the White community. But, Black leadership in the usa in majority chose to guide the black community to where it is now, and one of the negatives of that choice is black people have to live with reparations being warranted but no longer majority supported in the black community itself. 

 

 

REFERRAL

 

 

THE PRICE OF TRYING TO BE EQUAL TO AN ENEMY

Single Status Update from 06/04/2023 by richardmurray - African American Literature Book Club (aalbc.com)

 

JUNETEENTH IDEAS

 

[ProfD]

IMO, most AfroAmericans have not thought much about reparations.  It's impossible to fathom.

 

There's only been a handful of AfroAmericans advocating for reparations throughout our history. 

 

Neither Black leaders nor politicians have attempted to seriously frame and/or tackle the issue of reparations. 

 

Most of them have either been manufactured by and/or co-opted by white supremacists.

 

The idea of reparations is like asking one's parents for 1 million dollars.  The majority of folks wouldn't even bother full well knowing that it's just not going to happen. 

 

America is definitely indebted to AfroAmericans but it will never pay.  Mainly because there is no way to enforce collection of it.

[Troy]

The are plenty of people advocating for reparations.  I have identified a few books on Reparations recently that speak to this advocacy. 

 

Never say "Never," I was once paradoxically told, and I would never use it in the case of American not paying what they owe. You never know.

[frankster]

Power Concedes nothing without a Demand

If there is no struggle there is no progress....

Frederick Douglas

Check out N'cobra

[Troy]

Founded in 1987: https://ncobra.org/aboutus/index.html

 

https://www.officialncobraonline.org/home-page

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, Troy said:

Never say "Never," I was once paradoxically told, and I would never use it in the case of American not paying what they owe. You never know.

Fair enough. I've heard that faith changes things. 

 

2 hours ago, frankster said:

Power Concedes nothing without a Demand

If there is no struggle there is no progress....

Absolutely.

 

IMO, the demand for reparations has not been made with a solid outline/plan nor followed up with enforcement i.e. actions 

[richardmurray]

@ProfDfair enough, my read of history suggest  most black people in the usa have thought of reparations but most black leaders in the usa haven't prioritized or functionalized  the issue.  For me, reparations isn't due from the usa, it is due from the white community.

 

@Troy I apologize for miscommunicating. My point wasn't to say that most black people in the usa haven't thought about or desired reparations. my point is most black leaders in the usa haven't approached/functionalized/prioritized the issue. But i did say most, not all.

 

@frankster fair enough, but my point is not to condemn the past. I think most black leaders in the usa didn't or don't see reparations as a positive goal for black people in the usa. I am not suggesting most black people in the usa  never or do not want reparations. I am speaking on black leadership in the usa, specifically.

 

 

[frankster]

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

 fair enough, but my point is not to condemn the past. I think most black leaders in the usa didn't or don't see reparations as a positive goal for black people in the usa. I am not suggesting most black people in the usa  never or do not want reparations. I am speaking on black leadership in the usa, specifically.

Do not mistake Politicians as  Leaders...More often than not Politicians are Managers - and seek to see which way is more Expedient than what is Right and Just.

Black politicians are notorious for having allegiance to those who support their candidacy with cash....than those who vote them in.

Politicians are consensus builders and test all idea as to how much and what type of  support it will garner before doing anything.

 

A Leader does not seek popularity or expediency but Inspires and Motivates for that which is True Just and Right.

 

 

17 hours ago, ProfD said:

Fair enough. I've heard that faith changes things. 

 

Absolutely.

 

IMO, the demand for reparations has not been made with a solid outline/plan nor followed up with enforcement i.e. actions 

Every struggle has its own unique situations and circumstances....

There are plans and outlines.....even Laws and Precedents  - Indemnity, Theft,  etc.

Reparations as a movement is not seen by most black as Urgent, Imperative or possible......Critical Mass has not been achieve as a result it bog down in the quagmire of Intellectualism (paralysed by analysis) - More Important the Land of the Blacks the Home of the Black is still struggling with Neo-colonialism.

[richardmurray]

@frankster well, the difference between my definition of leader and yours, based on what you said, is in my definition, a leader can be bad:) 

In my view, a leader isn't someone who succeeds at leading. In my view, a leader is someone in a leadership position, regardless of what they do in it. 

So for example, Barrack Obama is a black leader. Mayor Eric Adams is a black leader. In my mind the question isn't are they leaders, but what are their objectives and are they good at being a leader? 

In terms of the black community I argue they are poor. In terms of the USA I argue they are at least good. But their objectives isn't an improved black community first and foremost. Their goal is an improved usa first or foremost.  But that is ok. All leaders have their own objectives. All communities have bad leaders. And sometimes a bad leader does one great thing while a good leader does a terrible thing. And sometimes a leader gets to complete all their objectives even if many consider it bad. 

[frankster]

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@frankster well, the difference between my definition of leader and yours, based on what you said, is in my definition, a leader can be bad:) 

In my view, a leader isn't someone who succeeds at leading. In my view, a leader is someone in a leadership position, regardless of what they do in it. 

So for example, Barrack Obama is a black leader. Mayor Eric Adams is a black leader. In my mind the question isn't are they leaders, but what are their objectives and are they good at being a leader? 

Yes our definitions do differ....

Being Black and in a Position of Leadership does not make one a Black Leader either in my Opinion....Shared Skin Color does not guarantee or imply Loyalty.

Those in positions of Leadership are often bureaucrats at worst and managers at best....rarely are they Leaders

The Two individuals you mention to me are not Leaders but Politicians and as such one should not look to them for direction....instead one should Organize around the  Issues,  Build Consensus, Control the Narrative and Influence Public Opinion - Then one maybe fortunate enough to get politicians to act in your favor.

 

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

In terms of the black community I argue they are poor.

Yes that is often the case since Blacks in Position of Leadership owe their position to Whites.

 

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

In terms of the USA I argue they are at least good. But their objectives isn't an improved black community first and foremost. Their goal is an improved usa first or foremost. 

An Improved Black Community is an Improved USA....

These are not contending forces or communities in terms of if you have one you can not have the other - they are not mutually exclusive.

 

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

But that is ok. All leaders have their own objectives. All communities have bad leaders. And sometimes a bad leader does one great thing while a good leader does a terrible thing. And sometimes a leader gets to complete all their objectives even if many consider it bad. 

True...but troubling.

[richardmurray]

 

 

@frankster 

 

 

Quote

Shared Skin Color does not guarantee or imply Loyalty.

 

I concur to your quote above.

....

I don't think a leader has to be looked to for direction. Again, the IRA freed 3/4 of IReland being feared or despised by many and potentially most irish people. But the IRA had an objective and succeeded and many in ireland are better for it. 

 

 

Quote

Blacks in Position of Leadership owe their position to Whites.

In my assessment 99% of Black leaders in the government in the usa  historically owe at least part of their position to whites. 

 

Quote

An Improved Black Community is an Improved USA....

These are not contending forces or communities in terms of if you have one you can not have the other - they are not mutually exclusive.

Sometimes they are. I can even use a modern scenario that is localized. The marijuana issue in NYC, from the legalization of marijuana to the nyc/nys government program that has provided opportunities to start marijuana dispensaries to those  imprisoned by marijuana possession, which for the record has been utilized. But, to be blunt, if the black population in nyc alone put in prison for marijuana  possession was let out in total en masse, if they all were given a ten year license for opening up a marijuana business and were given money for the years they were put in jail or detention for trying to feed themselves or their families that would be great for the black community but will be a financial collapse of many white towns in upstate New York sate who live off of the prison populace fed by small fiscal crime inmates who are black. New York City is already at the brink, financially and a battle between the mayor and city council over financing is going on as I type. The expenses of giving licenses and a pension for a dysfunctional legal system , which is warranted, will be to the detriment of NYC. It is that simple. No two things in humanity are always better together, some times, most times, few times, but never none of the time while never all the time. 

 

Quote

True...but troubling.

why troubling? Human beings are human. It is human to murder a parent cruelly as it is to celebrate the birthday to a stranger vigorously. Human leadership is meant to have a full spectrum. I will be troubled when humanity losses variance in any aspect, cause that is inhuman. 

 

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

...from the legalization of marijuana...

Drugs have always been used to criminalize Black folks and enrich white folks. 

 

There is a whole economy and prison industrial complex built on drug enforcement laws.  

 

From elected officials to civil servants and everyone else, the real question is what have Black folks done to correct an ill that most adversely affects us.  The short answer is nothing.

 

Instead, Black politicians, judges, lawyers, police officers, correctional officers, social workers, etc., are getting paid a salary to enforce the drug laws that enable them to buy houses, vehicles, groceries, education and vacation, etc.

 

Many Black folks are complicit in the maintenance of the system of racism white supremacy.

[frankster]

15 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

@frankster 

I concur to your quote above.

....

I don't think a leader has to be looked to for direction. Again, the IRA freed 3/4 of IReland being feared or despised by many and potentially most irish people. But the IRA had an objective and succeeded and many in ireland are better for it. 

 

 

In my assessment 99% of Black leaders in the government in the usa  historically owe at least part of their position to whites. 

We are in accord.

 

15 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Sometimes they are. I can even use a modern scenario that is localized. The marijuana issue in NYC, from the legalization of marijuana to the nyc/nys government program that has provided opportunities to start marijuana dispensaries to those  imprisoned by marijuana possession, which for the record has been utilized. But, to be blunt, if the black population in nyc alone put in prison for marijuana  possession was let out in total en masse, if they all were given a ten year license for opening up a marijuana business and were given money for the years they were put in jail or detention for trying to feed themselves or their families that would be great for the black community but will be a financial collapse of many white towns in upstate New York sate who live off of the prison populace fed by small fiscal crime inmates who are black. New York City is already at the brink, financially and a battle between the mayor and city council over financing is going on as I type. The expenses of giving licenses and a pension for a dysfunctional legal system , which is warranted, will be to the detriment of NYC. It is that simple. No two things in humanity are always better together, some times, most times, few times, but never none of the time while never all the time. 

I do not believe it is a Zero Sum Game...where there must be winners and losers - that is how it's presented not necessarily the true situation..

 

 

Since 2011, at least 22 states have closed or announced closures for 94 state prisons and juvenile facilities, resulting in the elimination of over 48,000 state prison beds¹ and an estimated cost savings of over $345 million.² The opportunity to downsize prison bed space has been brought about by declines in state prison populations as well as increasing challenges of managing older facilities. Reduced capacity has created the opportunity to repurpose closed prisons for a range of uses outside of the correctional system, including a movie studio, a distillery, and urban redevelopment.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/repurposing-new-beginnings-for-closed-prisons/

 

More than two decades later, those promises ring hollow in Tecumseh, where the 960-bed facility has become more burden than boon, adding to the city’s court costs while doing little to help the town’s economy grow. 

https://www.yahoo.com/now/small-towns-used-see-prisons-100013293.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKMfohnAssqSx4cJTC7etHvjsZlpQfi5DJqwwfMErprA9XJzR-pltBgE2xYUGYJM6FmXuLoRxqiVSTS97Rci5v3_spGOs4WnQECvBpEcFKb6JcvSb-UzmGa9rJWwqowRwQ7kLI1lDsTWgCx2B6IS8E2chDkZkcm2rEkQlIvWdcED

 

15 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

why troubling? Human beings are human. It is human to murder a parent cruelly as it is to celebrate the birthday to a stranger vigorously. Human leadership is meant to have a full spectrum. I will be troubled when humanity losses variance in any aspect, cause that is inhuman. 

 

It is troubling because one of the purpose of civilization is to continually reduce  or mitigate that which is considered bad in the human experience.

[Pioneer1]

I think most AfroAmerican leaders and most AfroAmericans in general have atleast CONSIDERED the idea of Reparations to various degrees, but as has been said previously....most don't believe we'll actually get it.

I personally DO BELIEVE that we will actually get our Reparations and THEN SOME.
When?  I'm not exactly sure.
However I believe we'll the process of receiving Reparations will begin within the next 50 years or so and not only that.....we'll CONTINUE to get Reparations for many many more generations down the line.

I think we'll actually get Reparations when the leaders and we as a collective realize that WE will have to PAY OURSELVES Reparations by attaining as much power in this nation as possible and simply passing the Federal laws necessary to dispense it.
 

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, I don't see an AfroAmerican movement building up that would be strong enough to force reparations.

 

I believe 50 years from now, any AfroAmerican interests will be totally diluted and absorbed into the fabric of America.

 

The movements of the 1960s, Black Power and Consciousness, etc., have already been relegated to the rearview.

 

The lessons of our master teachers, Dr. John Henrik Clarke, Dr. Yosef Ben, Dr. Francis Cress Welsing, Neely Fuller Jr. to name a few,  are only being embraced by a handful of our folks.

 

Maybe a younger generation of AfroAmericans will pick up the information and carry the torch of fighting for reparations. Doubt I'll see it in my lifetime. 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

A lot of THESE youth are so full of that fake weed so many are smoking.....it doesn't look very pretty, lol.

As soon as some of them walk past you....male of female...you immediately smell a SKUNK.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 @ProfD interesting point.