I Have A Confession....I Have More Respect For -

[Pioneer1]

Although I think BOTH tend to be enemies of the progress and advancement of the AfroAmerican community in general,  when compared with eachother I have more respect for the Sell Out and Uncle Tom than I have for the Black gangster and thug.


Infact, I'd rather LIVE AROUND the Sell Out and Uncle Tom.....than live around the gangsters and thugs.

The threat that the gangster and thug poses is a DIFFERENT type of danger than that of the Sell Out and Uncle Tom.

What do I mean?

Most Sell Outs and Toms don't pose a danger to the Black community period.
They just dismiss and abandon their people and refuse to help them in order to win favor with the Whites.
Of those who DO pose a danger, most of the dangers they pose are through helping the Whites institute policies and laws to harm Black folks either at work and or in society in general.
This is bad enough and although it certainly affects your LIVELIHOOD....it generally don't cost you your life.
We see this with Clarence Thomas and the Affirmative Action issue.


But the gangster and thug however.......
They DIRECTLY KILL other Black folks.
They sell poisonous drugs to those in the Black community.
They are quick to start fights and harm or kill those in the Black community.
They will break in your house and steal your car and other belongings.
They are the ones most likely to turn informant and agent against others in the Black community is is pretty much a form of selling you out in and of itself.

They may not admit to directly helping Whites against their own people;  infact they may be the MAIN ONES standing on a step ladder preaching about how weak and trifling an "uncle tom nigga" is and how he needs to be tossed in a ditch.
Mean while THEY are engaging in and promoting behavior that harms other AfroAmericans FAR MORE than the most shameless Uncle Tom out there.

The rap group NWA has done more to harm Black folks than Clarence Thomas and Candice Owens combined EVER has....hands down.

There are levels to this.
We need to recognize who the REAL ENEMIES of our community are...and to what degree.

[Troy]

I hear you @Pioneer1 and I understand why you may feel that way, but it is not that simple.  

 

I think the Thug/Tom dichotomy you've created is a false one. Both are bad for the Black community and they are both a direct reaction to and financed by racism.

 

Clarence Thomas may never bop grandma on the head for her social security check, but what do you think the generational impact of the Supreme Court's ruling will mean for Black people in the long term?

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

I've made it clear from the onset that BOTH are bad for the Black community, but that in my opinion the thug is much worse.

I've also given the reasons why.

 

As far as Affirmative Action goes, I'll keep it real with you.

I don't think THAT decision or any other decision on Affirmative Action....as it has currently been practiced for the past 40 years....will have much of a NEGATIVE impact on the Black community.

 

We know that since the 70s...Affirmative Action has done much more to benefit White women and probably Latinos more than it has benefited AfroAmericans.

So to the contrary, I think it will indirectly have a POSITIVE impact on the Black community.

For these reasons:

 

1. It will FORCE Black students to seriously consider going to and supporting more HBCUs.....because their options to go to PWUs  have just been curtailed.

 

2. It will FORCE Black students to study harder and take their education more seriously since they can no longer rely on racial quotas to get into college.

 

3. Black students IN college will get more respect because they will be recognized as being their because they DESERVE to be there instead of being assumed that they got an extra boost because of their race

4. Black people will be FORCED to open up and maintain their own businesses..especially businesses that participated in Affirmative Action programs like marketing, engineering, computer software tech, etc...

Because this ruling will eventually lead to White owned institutions cancelling THEIR race based Affirmative Action programs as well and kicking Black employees out.  So Black professionals will be FORCED to "do for self", which they should have been doing decades ago anyway.

As painful as it may be initially, it's a part of growing up because it will FORCE our people to be independent and not rely on the generosity or help of White folks.

No doubt the Latinos and Asians will TRY to take our places after we leave these universities and corporations...but they will be CRUSHED.

Just like welfare made a lot of our people lazy and it took a few generations for us to get off of it and make it happen....affirmative action had the same effect on a lot of professional AfroAmericans AND women of all races.
But while a lot of Black women might still be able to take advantage of Affirmative Action, this decision will FORCE Black men to do for self...and it will make us stronger.

This is a GOOD decision because our creativity will no longer be limited or diverted by going to school under or working for Caucasians.

 

[ProfD]

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

compared with eachother I have more respect for the Sell Out and Uncle Tom than I have for the Black gangster and thug.

Understood.

 

Sellouts/Uncle Toms/Aunt Sarahs make white folks feel comfortable maintaining the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

Thugs and gangsters poison and murder Black folks. Many of them go to prison or end up dead too. All of it fuels the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

IMO, net negative effect is the same.

[frankster]

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Although I think BOTH tend to be enemies of the progress and advancement of the AfroAmerican community in general,  when compared with eachother I have more respect for the Sell Out and Uncle Tom than I have for the Black gangster and thug.

The Original Uncle Tom is Misunderstood  because of the propaganda surrounding his story...Todays uncle Toms are sell outs or worst the bought in(honorable whites)

Black Gangster who I grew up around were good for my community....of course because the broke the law the were considered bad.

Thugs and Sell out are despicable human beings and to me are the lowest scum....good for no one but themselves and the Ones doing the buying(Predominant society)

 

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Infact, I'd rather LIVE AROUND the Sell Out and Uncle Tom.....than live around the gangsters and thugs.

The threat that the gangster and thug poses is a DIFFERENT type of danger than that of the Sell Out and Uncle Tom.

What do I mean?

 

Rarely does a gangster impose on your world....

The actions of thugs and sell outs often do...

 

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Most Sell Outs and Toms don't pose a danger to the Black community period.
They just dismiss and abandon their people and refuse to help them in order to win favor with the Whites.
Of those who DO pose a danger, most of the dangers they pose are through helping the Whites institute policies and laws to harm Black folks either at work and or in society in general.
This is bad enough and although it certainly affects your LIVELIHOOD....it generally don't cost you your life.
We see this with Clarence Thomas and the Affirmative Action issue.

 

The sell outs do not kill you...but they tell your enemies how to kill you

Because their actions does not directly ends in death does not mean their actions  is not one of the chief determining factor that resulted in deaths.

 

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But the gangster and thug however.......
They DIRECTLY KILL other Black folks.
They sell poisonous drugs to those in the Black community.
They are quick to start fights and harm or kill those in the Black community.
They will break in your house and steal your car and other belongings.
They are the ones most likely to turn informant and agent against others in the Black community is is pretty much a form of selling you out in and of itself.

Gangster mostly kill others in the game/business.

Yes they sell poison....that results in death and destruction - on some level it is the users choice unless you subscribe to the Pusher man theory.

I grew up among gangster and if you rob any one in the neighborhood without permission...you are going to suffer

Yes many gangster turn snitch...

 

 

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

They may not admit to directly helping Whites against their own people;  infact they may be the MAIN ONES standing on a step ladder preaching about how weak and trifling an "uncle tom nigga" is and how he needs to be tossed in a ditch.
Mean while THEY are engaging in and promoting behavior that harms other AfroAmericans FAR MORE than the most shameless Uncle Tom out there.

The rap group NWA has done more to harm Black folks than Clarence Thomas and Candice Owens combined EVER has....hands down.

There are levels to this.
We need to recognize who the REAL ENEMIES of our community are...and to what degree.

NWA....what are referring to the Prison Industrial Complex

[Pioneer1]

In a way I think BOTH the Sell Out and Gangster chose their life based on what they probably considered the "hopelessness" they saw in their communities.

The Sell Out saw the poverty, crime, hopelessness and dividion among AfroAmericans and asked themselves what's the use in being loyal to these people when you get nothing in return because they have nothing to offer. 
So he sells out and TRIES to join White folks.

The Gangster saw and said the same thing but instead of getting with the White folks, he decides to EXPLOIT the dysfunction he sees and use it to HIS benefit.

The Sell Out could care less about the dysfunction, and the Gangster FUELS it.

 

 

 

 

ProfD

 

 

 

Understood.

Sellouts/Uncle Toms/Aunt Sarahs make white folks feel comfortable maintaining the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

This is true.
But the thug and gangster make Black folks feel UNcomfortable with their violence and dysfunction.

 

 

 

Thugs and gangsters poison and murder Black folks. Many of them go to prison or end up dead too. All of it fuels the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

Facts.
 

 

 

 

frankster

 

The Original Uncle Tom is Misunderstood  because of the propaganda surrounding his story...Todays uncle Toms are sell outs or worst the bought in(honorable whites)

 

You're correct.
I use the term "Uncle Tom" as a hold over from the misunderstood actual story of the original Uncle Tom who actually helped Black people.
Although most Black people DO see the term as disparaging, I'll probably stop using the term in a disparaging way anyway see some of us know better and know the truth behind the Uncle Tom character.

 

 

 

Black Gangster who I grew up around were good for my community....of course because the broke the law the were considered bad.

 

How were they good for your community?

I didn't grow up in the hood but I did have SOME Black gangsters in my community where I grew up who sold dope, pimped, and ran other types of operations.

Although they didn't harm me, I didn't see them helping the community at all.

 

 

Thugs and Sell out are despicable human beings and to me are the lowest scum....good for no one but themselves and the Ones doing the buying(Predominant society)

 

So I take it you put the thugs and sell outs on the same level.

 

 

 

 

Gangster mostly kill others in the game/business.

Yes they sell poison....that results in death and destruction - on some level it is the users choice unless you subscribe to the Pusher man theory.

 

True

But isn't selling poison to your people literally SELLING out?

 

 

I grew up among gangster and if you rob any one in the neighborhood without permission...you are going to suffer

 

Lol.
It's funny because I remember when I was a kid before the Crack Era....crime wasn't organized, but it was "known".
If someone broke into a house or stole a car SOMEBODY of importance on the streets knew who did it and could "handle" it for you.  But when Crack came, the instability it brought changed all of that.

 

 

 

NWA....what are referring to the Prison Industrial Complex

 

They didn't build it, but they fueled it.
They made a lot of young Black boys want to grow up to be "Niggas Fa Life".
 

 

[frankster]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

 

The Original Uncle Tom is Misunderstood  because of the propaganda surrounding his story...Todays uncle Toms are sell outs or worst the bought in(honorable whites)

 

You're correct.
I use the term "Uncle Tom" as a hold over from the misunderstood actual story of the original Uncle Tom who actually helped Black people.
Although most Black people DO see the term as disparaging, I'll probably stop using the term in a disparaging way anyway see some of us know better and know the truth behind the Uncle Tom character.

Cool

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black Gangster who I grew up around were good for my community....of course because the broke the law the were considered bad.

 

How were they good for your community?

I didn't grow up in the hood but I did have SOME Black gangsters in my community where I grew up who sold dope, pimped, and ran other types of operations.

Although they didn't harm me, I didn't see them helping the community at all.

Maybe "Good for the community" was a little strong....

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Thugs and Sell out are despicable human beings and to me are the lowest scum....good for no one but themselves and the Ones doing the buying(Predominant society)

 

So I take it you put the thugs and sell outs on the same level.

Yes but for different reasons

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Gangster mostly kill others in the game/business.

Yes they sell poison....that results in death and destruction - on some level it is the users choice unless you subscribe to the Pusher man theory.

 

True

But isn't selling poison to your people literally SELLING out?

Yes....But they can't or don't just sell this poison to any and everybody in the community.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I grew up among gangster and if you rob any one in the neighborhood without permission...you are going to suffer

 

Lol.
It's funny because I remember when I was a kid before the Crack Era....crime wasn't organized, but it was "known".
If someone broke into a house or stole a car SOMEBODY of importance on the streets knew who did it and could "handle" it for you.  But when Crack came, the instability it brought changed all of that.

Not Important but Respected.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

NWA....what are referring to the Prison Industrial Complex

 

They didn't build it, but they fueled it.
They made a lot of young Black boys want to grow up to be "Niggas Fa Life".
 

 

yep

[richardmurray]

@Troy I concur to your position. The question is: Who does more damage to the black community? 

The problem with such a question is the difficulty in assessing the damage over time from either party to the greater community. 

Pioneer1 has biases, as do we all, but to properly assess, the biases have to taken out and the process of determination, historically is quite a challenge 

@frankster 

comprehend one thing, the white jewish, white italian, white irish community in nyc today owes the white streetfolk for everything, the same white streetfolk who many times killed,  acted illegally for profit, acted petty or violent or murdered in their own community. But said streetfolk were the key to those communities, or at least many people in their communities,  betterments down the road.  And the same to black streetfolk. Some black people today in harlem own buildings, have their busineses or other because of black streetfolk. 

I repeat, in the usa, fiscal capitalism only provides two ways to make large revenue absent inheritance or knowing someone. Illegal activity side entertainment. Everything else requires inheritance or knowing someone plain or simple. 

[frankster]

9 hours ago, richardmurray said:

comprehend one thing, the white jewish, white italian, white irish community in nyc today owes the white streetfolk for everything, the same white streetfolk who many times killed,  acted illegally for profit, acted petty or violent or murdered in their own community. But said streetfolk were the key to those communities, or at least many people in their communities,  betterments down the road. 

True

 

9 hours ago, richardmurray said:

And the same to black streetfolk. Some black people today in harlem own buildings, have their busineses or other because of black streetfolk. 

I repeat, in the usa, fiscal capitalism only provides two ways to make large revenue absent inheritance or knowing someone. Illegal activity side entertainment. Everything else requires inheritance or knowing someone plain or simple. 

To me there is a difference between thugs and gangsters....Gangsters have a (street) code - Thugs is the law of the  jungle.

Hence the reason why initially I said they were good for the community....

to those families in the community that they hurt or destroyed - how could they be good?

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, it would be very wise for you to travel to the thriving black communities across America. 

 

You will find many well-to-do Black folks who are neither sellouts nor thugs and gangsters. 

 

I grew up with the gamut of Black folks and know how to deal with *us* accordingly. 

 

There is method to the madness plaguing impoverished Black communities.  Thugs and gangsters should be the least of our worries.  

 

My *issue* with Black folks is the lack of being code in terms of building an infrastructure and bridge to uplift our own people and dismantle the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

I feel that religion, money and politics, etc., have lulled Black folks into a false sense of security as it relates to dealing with the real devil out in these streetz...it's white folks and the system they've built. 

[Pioneer1]

frankster

 

 

Yes....But they can't or don't just sell this poison to any and everybody in the community.

 

SOME don't...but some do and don't care.

You've heard the old saying, "There's no honor among thieves".
There's a lot of truth to it.

There's no real "code" among dope dealers and the street element except survival and staying alive and out of jail at all costs.
There are dudes out there who sell dope to their own mothers.

 

And the reason is simple....it's an underground industry so there is no real way to enforce any type of code or law that everybody has to follow.
The man who breaks the code can kill his punishers just as easily as they could try to kill him.

 

 

 

 

Not Important but Respected.

 

True

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

richardmurray

 

 Some black people today in harlem own buildings, have their busineses or other because of black streetfolk. 

 

I wonder to what extent?

Ofcourse you got your Bumpy Johnsons through out the historically Black ghettos of the U.S.

I'm sure that of ALL the dope dealers, pimps, prostitutes, and numbers runners in Harlem....SOME of them set family members to school or helped them go in business.
The question is what percentage of Black success in Harlem or any other Black community in the U.S. is actually owed to the generosity of the Hustlers and Gangsters?

My guess is the percentage isn't very high.

 

Most of the money and wealth a Hustler or Gangster makes is either recycled back into the streets or goes to the government either in legal fees or confiscation.
Little of it is passed down or even invested -especially with the money laundering laws enacted since the 50s.

ProfD


My *issue* with Black folks is the lack of being code in terms of building an infrastructure and bridge to uplift our own people and dismantle the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

Well, remember I told you you can't get on code with a damn FOOL.
He ain't got sense enough to even acknowledge a code, let alone adhere to it.

 

You might as well catch a rat and try to teach it ballet.

 

The sell out usually doesn't believe that system CAN be dismantled...anytime soon atleast.  So they feel their best option is to join the "winning" team as best they can.

 

The Gangster and Hustler doesn't care. They are only concerned about themselves, their crew, and how much money is in their pockets.

They'll be pro-Black when it's convenient and be down to help the White folks when THAT pays more.

 

Like that dreadlocked nigga on Queen and Slim who sold the Black couple out for some money and at the end of the movie sat there in a pile of cash smoking it up in weed.

 

 

 

That's not too far from the truth.
 

[frankster]

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

 

 

Yes....But they can't or don't just sell this poison to any and everybody in the community.

 

SOME don't...but some do and don't care.

You've heard the old saying, "There's no honor among thieves".
There's a lot of truth to it.

There's no real "code" among dope dealers and the street element except survival and staying alive and out of jail at all costs.
There are dudes out there who sell dope to their own mothers.

True....

No honor among thieves is true....undeniable true.

The Code is real.....every rule can be broken

It's a tricky subject...but before you judge please realize the following.

The Right of Conquest, The  Doctrine of Discovery and  Letters of Marque Are Laws....Which Are Fundamental to European civilization - Straight up gangster

All Dynasties Emperors Kings Queens Aristocracies and Nobilities  started out as gangsters.

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And the reason is simple....it's an underground industry so there is no real way to enforce any type of code or law that everybody has to follow.
The man who breaks the code can kill his punishers just as easily as they could try to kill him.

It's Cops and Robbers on steroids.....You got dirty cops and Robin Hoods in them dere streetz.

[richardmurray]

@frankster yes, you are correct to those they hurt how can they be good, but then the usa is a country founded by people who have many a statue or have a saintly position  who hurt far more others alot  

 

@Pioneer1 questions you ask no one can answer, can only be guessed at, and even with guesses the considerations to the environment of black street folk may differ between people  

[Pioneer1]

frankster

I was listening to this commentary from Tariq Nasheed the other day and it made me think of you and our conversation we're having on the "g-code" some gansters allegedly had among themselves.

His commentary on it starts at the 1:16:55 mm  and only lasts a few minutes-


 

 

[frankster]

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

I was listening to this commentary from Tariq Nasheed the other day and it made me think of you and our conversation we're having on the "g-code" some gansters allegedly had among themselves.

His commentary on it starts at the 1:16:55 mm  and only lasts a few minutes-


 

 

Yep....the code status class and style all part of the gangster life.

Gangster are  all classist elitist and down right hypocritical to be honest....but somehow they are fundamental to many communities - go figure.

They are people you respect but should hate...why maybe because of their daring bravado as black males in a white society that should have them running scared.

I have seen them make the man(police) back down/back up....More Huey than Malcolm - and to me as a kid on the streets that was some shit

[Pioneer1]

Yeah, I think it's the bravado and charisma a lot of gangsters have that make them attractive.

A lot of people who are born with charisma can use it for positive or negative, and most successful gangsters use their charisma for what most of us would consider "negative" purposes.

I mean that to say that not all gangsters are successful and not all gangsters have charisma....just like not all gangsters are smart.
But the more successful ones usually DO have a level of charisma and intelligence that helps them.

They do and say things that most men WISH they could do and say but are afraid (or smart enough not) to do.

I remember as a kid a few of my classmates who used to get angry and throw their books down or against the walls and tell the teacher "fuck you" and get up and walk out the classroom.  All the kids would go "Oooooooo....." and they would get a lot of pats on the back.  A lot of those same cats are dead or locked up.
What SEEMED to be like an admirable trait or behavior led to negative consequences.

I learned over the years that the best way to achieve things is the RIGHT WAY.
If you're not smart enough to do it the RIGHT way....hold off until the opportunity finally comes.
Doing things the WRONG way too often brings negative consequences.
Some you hadn't even thought about or calculated in the risk!!!!

[ProfD]

I grew up with a lot of brothas who were very intelligent and did well academically too.

 

 Yet,  for many of those cats  *school* didn’t seem to offer a pathway to real prosperity and wealth. Nor did they want to work for white folks. So, they did *illegal* sh8t to build legitimate businesses. 

 

That gangster who is intelligent, charismatic and strong is usually the CEO of a corporation under different circumstances.

[Pioneer1]

I know people, but I'm not acquainted with street life enough to know the full story of a lot of gangsters and their success.

I used to see pimps on the streets when I was a kid, but the Crack Era pretty much put an end to that.
The state lottery system put an end to the numbers game.
From what I understand, pimps still exist but they are mostly NON-Black and traffic women internationally.

The only illegal business I've heard a lot of Black folks are still making money in is dope.
However I don't personally know any kingpins or cartel leaders of ANY race....let alone Black folks on that level.

Most Black folks I've known in the game from what I see and what they've talked about....have been relatively SMALL TIME meaning they made less than a million dollars a year.
I've never been that hungry or desperate, however it just doesn't seem worth it to face being killed by a rival, jail time,  and a lifetime of avoiding enemies and "pay back" for such a small amount of money.

And just regular gang banging (what many "gangsters" do) and set tripping REALLY doesn't make any sense.....to me.
I understand some people grow up in certain neighborhoods where it's required, but to CHOOSE that lifestyle knowing where it will lead.....makes none.

 

[ProfD]

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I know people, but I'm not acquainted with street life enough to know the full story of a lot of gangsters and their success.

Rest assured that many Black student college educations have been financed by gangster activities.

 

As mentioned early, it's not too different from what the white mafia has done to take care of their families and enrich themselves. 

 

I'm not glorifying or condoning  that life. Just providing perspective.

[Pioneer1]

I have to wonder what percentage of street money actually went for productive causes like paying for a good education, buying a nice home, or starting a legitimate business.
 

[ProfD]

18 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I have to wonder what percentage of street money actually went for productive causes like paying for a good education, buying a nice home, or starting a legitimate business.
 

A lot of street money has been used productively over several decades.

 

The gangsters and thugs running around the streetz aren't the *real* bosses.

 

Just like El Chapo, there have been plenty brothas past to present moving heavy weight all over the planet.  They have fed the economy too.