Prostitutes Vs Housewives

[Pioneer1]

@frankster

Let me make it clear that:

1. I support the institution of marriage when done PROPERLY.
2. I believe children should be raised by atleast a man and women in a committed relationship.....usually marriage.


Having said that though..............


I would argue that historically, women have found more independence and success as PROSTITUTES than as old fashioned traditional HOUSE-WIVES.

A lot of women have become successful and made lots of money being call-girls, escorts, and eventually Madams of their own brothels.

As important is it is, how many have become wealthy from their position as subservient and obedient house-wives?

I'd further argue that in recently history, house wives have experienced more domestic violence and physical abuse from their husbands....than prostitutes have from their Johns.


The reasons I make this point is because "right and wrong" should based on BENEFIT to us as a people, not based on out-dated moral and ethical guidelines given to us by our enemies (the racists).

We want a society based on TRUTH...because facts and knowledge solve our problems.
Not just another one based on lies and eye-bucking superstition that will have you going around in circles over and over again trying to figure out what's wrong.
 

[Cynique]

@Pioneer1Stefan is right about you and the silly off-the-wall topics you dredge up. The idea that prostitution is an ideal alternate career choice for rebellious housewives seeking independence, is ludicrous!.  Selling their bodies for profit is a less than ideal  career pursuit, and better left to the drug addicts who usually resort to this vocation to support their habit. As for Call girls and Madams, these aren't the type of professions that will fill the kids of desperate housewives with pride, not to mention the danger involved in these jobs, and I question your assertion that a lot of ex-housewives have chosen to do this.  Update your scenario.  It's not an accurate portrait of what's current.  Few women of today restrict themselves to being housewives unless they want to, and some women actually do prefer this domestic role. 

 

Then in another post, there's the graphic and exaggerated female product commercials you chide black women for allowing themselves to be cast in.  i don't recall these ads featuring women of color any more than white ones or the ads being as gross as you describe them. 

 

Stuck to your half-cocked ideas about current events and stop taking on the role of spokesperson for black women! 

 

[ProfD]

I know where this thread originated but the content has clearly jumped the shark.

 

Illegal prostitution doesn't have the best benefits package (medical and dental) and retirement plan. There's also the hazards of unsafe workplace conditions and physical security issues. 

 

Housewives married to a strong provided have much better job security and benefits and retirement package. Especially if she becomes a widow i.e. out-lives provider who has accumulated savings, investments, pension, etc.

 

While there are exceptions to everything i.e. women who have been *successful* prostitutes, the odds are lower than a more stable situation. Housewives have fared better overall. 

 

Over many decades, women have been able to choose how they want to live and provide for themselves. No pimp, John or husband required. 

[Troy]

How about the house wives who are also hookers? the best of both worlds huh @Pioneer1?

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

Illegal prostitution doesn't have the best benefits package (medical and dental) and retirement plan.

 

Neither do most marriages....lol.
And you're STUCK with the partner until you get a LEGAL divorce or separation.

 

 

 

 There's also the hazards of unsafe workplace conditions and physical security issues. 

 

Same thing with an abusive marriage...lol.
And even when a woman tries to LEAVE the fool, he often still stalks her.

 

How many johns stalk their ho's vs how many ex-husbands stalk their ex-wives?

 

 

 

Housewives married to a strong provided have much better job security and benefits and retirement package. Especially if she becomes a widow i.e. out-lives provider who has accumulated savings, investments, pension, etc.

While there are exceptions to everything i.e. women who have been *successful* prostitutes, the odds are lower than a more stable situation. Housewives have fared better overall. 

 

You're talking about "best case" or "better case" scenarios with marriage.
Not the typical average marriage in the U.S. where there is physical abuse, emotional abuse, substance abuse, often unwanted pregnancies, and financial strain and stress.

 

 

 

Over many decades, women have been able to choose how they want to live and provide for themselves. No pimp, John or husband required.

 

That would be ideal, but women in the U.S. are NOT allowed to choose because prostitution is illegal for the most part.
I say make it legal (not human trafficking but sex for money) and let people have a CHOICE as to whether they want to engage in it or not.
 

 

 

 

Troy

 

 

How about the house wives who are also hookers? the best of both worlds huh

 

Many already are....both literally AND figuratively

.

If a woman's ONLY job is cooking meals, keeping the house clean, and giving her husband blow jobs in exchange for him taking care of her, buying her a few gifts, and giving her a weekly allowance...isn't that basically exchanging sex for favors?

Call it whatever you want....but that's the reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cynique

Hello to you too....lol.

You might want to capitalize the "B" when you talking about Black people 

 

 

 

 

 

ProfD & Cynique

 

No one said anything about prostitution being "ideal" for women in general.
For SOME women it absolutely IS ideal....if they have a talent for sexual pleasures.

However I support it being legal for those women who WANT to engage in it.
Give them the CHOICE.

 

Everyone has gifts and talents, including when it comes to sex and sexual activities.

If a woman OR man was given a talent for sex and pleasing people sexually, why should they be suppressed and restricted because of some hypocritical RELIGIOUS BASED laws?

Keep it real...

If people weren't conditioned by the Church to look at prostitution and even sex itself as a dirty or evil thing, they wouldn't have the opposition and mixed feelings they have about it.
It would be just another natural act similar to eating and sleeping.

It should be legal and regulated for the safety of both parties.

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, as I mentioned in another thread, most dates and marriages can be viewed as legal prostitution.

 

Prostitution is called the oldest profession because it's been around for thousands of years.

 

Regardless of laws, both women and men have been using prostitution as a means to an end. Sometimes it's happy.

[Troy]

Nothing is free, a sex is certainly no exception.

 

Prostitution weed is basically legal.  Both can be easily purchased by anyone marginally motivated. 

 

I think equating a housewife with a hooker is overly simplistic.  Some housewives are actually loved by their mates, it is not a purely an exchange for sex and keeping house. 

[frankster]

On 12/9/2023 at 9:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

@frankster

Let me make it clear that:

1. I support the institution of marriage when done PROPERLY.
2. I believe children should be raised by atleast a man and women in a committed relationship.....usually marriage.

I Concur

 

On 12/9/2023 at 9:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

 

 

Having said that though..............


I would argue that historically, women have found more independence and success as PROSTITUTES than as old fashioned traditional HOUSE-WIVES.

I do not Agree.

Provide your Evidence of this?

 

On 12/9/2023 at 9:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

A lot of women have become successful and made lots of money being call-girls, escorts, and eventually Madams of their own brothels.

Maybe a lucky few....but a what cost

 

 

On 12/9/2023 at 9:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

As important is it is, how many have become wealthy from their position as subservient and obedient house-wives?

 Most if not all of them that are married to Wealthy men.....They greatly outnumber successful Prostitutes

 

On 12/9/2023 at 9:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I'd further argue that in recently history, house wives have experienced more domestic violence and physical abuse from their husbands....than prostitutes have from their Johns.

I Disagree

Provide proof or evidence?

 

On 12/9/2023 at 9:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

The reasons I make this point is because "right and wrong" should based on BENEFIT to us as a people, not based on out-dated moral and ethical guidelines given to us by our enemies (the racists).

Right is at its Essence based on whether and to what extent it is Life Supporting and Life Giving to the Greatest Number in the Long Run.

 

On 12/9/2023 at 9:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

We want a society based on TRUTH...because facts and knowledge solve our problems.

Not just another one based on lies and eye-bucking superstition that will have you going around in circles over and over again trying to figure out what's wrong.
 

True

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

Regardless of laws, both women and men have been using prostitution as a means to an end. 

 

Which I think is perfectly FINE as long as it's CONSENTUAL.

With so many men and women CONFUSED as hell over what sex they are, men and women screwing eachother for money should be the least of society's concerns.

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

Prostitution weed is basically legal.  Both can be easily purchased by anyone marginally motivated. 

 

Easily purchased and legal are two separate things.

And we must remember that Marijuana is NOT legal.
A lot of people are getting locked up right now for possessing it.

 

 

 

I think equating a housewife with a hooker is overly simplistic.  Some housewives are actually loved by their mates, it is not a purely an exchange for sex and keeping house. 

 

You're right.
I produced that comparison to make a point.

Just because a position is "accepted by society" that doesn't necessarily mean it's the most beneficial for an individual.

As many have already mentioned the benefits of being a housewife to a GOOD husband....go to any women's shelter for abused women and ask THEM would they rather get back with their abusive husbands or be a hooker if that were their only choice -and wait for the answer.

 

 

 

 

frankster

I do not Agree.

Provide your Evidence of this?

 

The evidence is in the statement itself.

How could you not logically agree that a prostitute is more independent than a housewife?

 

-A housewife depends on her husband for money and for sustenance.
-A prostitute...even one with a pimp or madam...makes her own money and pretty much supports herself.

 

 

Maybe a lucky few....but a what cost

 

The same question can be asked about a woman who works construction, as a police officer, or late at night at a gas station.

Danger is danger.

 

 

 

Most if not all of them that are married to Wealthy men.....They greatly outnumber successful Prostitutes

The problem with that is, they have to WAIT ON finding a wealthy man....that may not come...in order to be successful.
When they are prostitutes, the make their OWN success.

That can be said of any profession a woman chooses though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right is at its Essence based on whether and to what extent it is Life Supporting and Life Giving to the Greatest Number in the Long Run.

 

Not sure if this is correct.

An argument can be made that giving and supporting life....in some circumstances...MAY be inappropriate if that quality of life is so horrible that a person would wish they were dead OR they are causing more harm in society than they're worth.

Like I said in another thread  Right = CORRECT
 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

...men and women screwing eachother for money should be the least of society's concerns.

Prostitution is a misdemeanor. Just like littering or loitering or extreme cases of jaywalking. 

 

Prostitution is happening in so many ways and so many folks are indulging that it's really not a concern of society.

 

Unlike illegal drugs, police don't have task forces running around kicking down doors and yelling, rounding up and hauling people off to jail. 

 

Imagine a version of Cops where po-po ride around arresting folks for prostitution.

 

There would be naked people running through alleys and back yards and hopping fences trying to get away.

[frankster]

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

I do not Agree.

Provide your Evidence of this?

 

The evidence is in the statement itself.

How could you not logically agree that a prostitute is more independent than a housewife?

They Have merely changed on who they depend on.....Now they depend on Many Johns - instead of One Husband

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

-A housewife depends on her husband for money and for sustenance.

As he in turns depends on her to be his Partner in Life.

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

-A prostitute...even one with a pimp or madam...makes her own money and pretty much supports herself.

Yes...When and if business is good.

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Maybe a lucky few....but a what cost

 

The same question can be asked about a woman who works construction, as a police officer, or late at night at a gas station.

Danger is danger.

Prostitutes are Objectified and Stereotyped...suffer from Mental Health Issues on the level of people who survived Combat ....That's way pass being a Police

 

"Research also shows that selling sex involves such repetitive exposure to trauma that PTSD is more common for people who’ve lived through it than those who have lived through military combat. "

https://www.caase.org/mental-health-impacts-of-sex-trade/#:~:text=All this can lead to,55% reported symptoms of anxiety.

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Most if not all of them that are married to Wealthy men.....They greatly outnumber successful Prostitutes

The problem with that is, they have to WAIT ON finding a wealthy man....that may not come...in order to be successful.

The Average Divorcee or Widow is most likely worth more than the Average prostitute in terms of Assets and Wealth and Legacy....It is a fact of history and culture that the vast majority of women who prostitute themselves do so because they can find no other means of earning an income

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

When they are prostitutes, the make their OWN success.

Pimps and Madams call the shots.... they make the money - Prostitutes are Sex Slaves/Prisoners/Traffick/Drug Addicted/Kidnapped.

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

That can be said of any profession a woman chooses though.

No...Not on the level of Prostitution both in Quantity or Quality and to the Degrees(of Degradations)

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Right is at its Essence based on whether and to what extent it is Life Supporting and Life Giving to the Greatest Number in the Long Run.

 

Not sure if this is correct.

An argument can be made that giving and supporting life....in some circumstances...MAY be inappropriate if that quality of life is so horrible that a person would wish they were dead OR they are causing more harm in society than they're worth.

Hence the Reason I use the Term"LIFE GIVING" which means Vital Vitalizing Energizing and  Invigorating.

 

54 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Like I said in another thread  Right = CORRECT
 

It Should...

[Pioneer1]

frankster

 

 

They Have merely changed on who they depend on.....Now they depend on Many Johns - instead of One Husband

 
But they can pick and choose their Johns as well as each circumstance (for the most part) they engage in.

 

With a house-wife, only one husband controls the entire show.
And if HE fails...then SHE fails along with him.

Little control over her destiny when she's tied to him.

 

 

 

As he in turns depends on her to be his Partner in Life.

 

I wouldn't call it "depending" on her as much as EXPECTING her to fulfill her role.

He's IN-dependent.
She's the one dependent and depending on him.

 

 

 

 

Yes...When and if business is good.

 

Lol...and when ISN'T it?

 

 

 

Prostitutes are Objectified and Stereotyped...suffer from Mental Health Issues on the level of people who survived Combat ....That's way pass being a Police

Is it the prostitution causing this trauma, or the STREET LIFE that comes from engaging in otherwise non-violent activities that  are illegal?

 

 

 

Pimps and Madams call the shots.... they make the money - Prostitutes are Sex Slaves/Prisoners/Traffick/Drug Addicted/Kidnapped.

 

Pimps and Madams MANAGE the prostitutes (who choose to have them)...yes.
However the husband MANAGES the housewife.
It's a trade of power for "security".

I don't consider sex-slaves prostitutes.
They are just that....sex SLAVES....as the sex isn't mutually consentual.

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, despite how old it is, I don't see too many women flocking to the lowest form of prostitution as a profession and/or a form of liberation from societal norms. 

 

Street level prostitution isn't a career choice.  It's a means of survival. 

 

Escort services provide better working conditions and clientele.  Some women make a ton of money.  It still hasn't become a recommended career path.

 

As I mentioned above, both women and men engage in some form of prostitution that is legal. It's called dating and marriage.

[Pioneer1]

Know what, I think yall may be right...

To be honest with you I had doubts about my argument a couple days after posting it.
Not sure why I did.
Probably just to poke at frankster because of the discussion we were having in the other thread.

I support prostitution and the right for women (or men for that matter) to be prostitutes if they want, however I don't think it's more honorable or better than being a good wife and raising children in a good stable home.

If there are no objections, I'll probably delete this thread sometime today.

 

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Know what, I think yall may be right...

If there are no objections, I'll probably delete this thread sometime today.

Deleting the thread is your choice but it's been a lively discussion.

 

Also, prostitution is still alive and kicking.

[Pioneer1]

 

ProfD
 

 

Since yall have been the most active participants in it......if you, Troy, or frankster disagree with me deleting it....I'll leave it alone.
But my position has shifted somewhat on the matter.

I still support legalized and regulated Prostitution, but I don't think it's better than being a housewife overall.
But there are a lot of variables to consider when comparing both.
 

[Pioneer1]

Infact, since Troy constantly says I never change my position.
Maybe I'll leave it up as an example of how I have....lol.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

But my position has shifted somewhat on the matter.

 

58 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Infact, since Troy constantly says I never change my position.
Maybe I'll leave it up as an example of how I have....lol.

Exactly. I say leave it up as proof that brotha @Pioneer1 can change his position once in a few thousand posts.

[Troy]

On 12/16/2023 at 10:53 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Infact, since Troy constantly says I never change my position.
Maybe I'll leave it up as an example of how I have....lol.

 

Wait, what?  

 

I skimmed over the previous statements, and it was not clear what opinion you have changed. What was it.

 

On 12/16/2023 at 10:15 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I still support legalized and regulated Prostitution, but I don't think it's better than being a housewife overall.

 

I don't think you are being honest here.  Answer this question: Would you rather your mother have been a prostitute or a housewife?

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

Wait, what?  

I skimmed over the previous statements, and it was not clear what opinion you have changed. What was it.

Then STOP SKIMMING and getting only a half-ass understanding...lol.
 

My INITIAL position was that for the most part prostitutes were more independent and successful than housewives.
 

I'm not going to lie....
The arguments presented by ProfD and frankster did have a SLIGHT influence over my change of position, but MOST of it came after days of careful consideration....especially when I put both marriage and prostitution in a GLOBAL and HISTORIC context.
 

I was also more focused on MONETARY success than the success that comes with raising children and providing them with a stable home.

 

 

 

 

I don't think you are being honest here.  Answer this question: Would you rather your mother have been a prostitute or a housewife?

 

What would I gain by lying?
 

And to answer your question:

Ofourse it should be HER (or any woman's) choice as to what career choice they make, but I personally would rather my own Mother be a housewive because it means I MOST LIKELY (though not 100% guaranteed) would be raised in a relatively stable home and environment.

[Troy]

@Pioneer1  and I would agree with you, and I suspect the vast majority of people would too. Given that all of us have mothers... one is role clearly better than the other.

 

Of course, people can choose to do what they want.

 

 

 

 

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Troy said:

 Given that all of us have mothers... one is role clearly better than the other.

Yeah, it would be kinda  weird filling out forms for a school-aged child and under mother's occupation....prostitute. 

 

Even worse, when that mother shows up for a PTA meeting and fathers and teachers and the janitor give her the side-eye or a wink and a nod.

 

I don't believe anybody wants either one of their parents to be a prostitute or drug dealer or a bank robber as an occupation.

[Troy]

Drug dealing isn’t really frowned upon, is it? 

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Troy said:

Drug dealing isn’t really frowned upon, is it? 

It's not really frowned upon but most children won't go around bragging about theirr parent(s) being career drug dealers.

[Troy]

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

most children won't go around bragging about theirr parent(s) being career drug dealers

 

Nope, but the primary reason for that is it is simply bad for business.

[ProfD]

44 minutes ago, Troy said:

Nope, but the primary reason for that is it is simply bad for business.

Exactly.  No different from children born into the mafia. 

 

No reason for those kids to tell anybody what their fathers did for a living. 

 

Of course, people *knew* not to mistreat those mafia kids either.

[Pioneer1]

I don't know of any kid who wants their parents to be a prostitute or bank robber....but drug dealer???
I know a few who BRAGGED about all the ki's their father was moving around the city, lol.

In the 'hood, having a gangster daddy is cool.

If sex didn't have such a bad stigma attached to it in Western society, I think SOME children wouldn't have a second thought about casually mentioning that their mother is a Prostitute by profession.
Especially if she was making good money and the children looked nice and presentable.

 

[ProfD]

38 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

In the 'hood, having a gangster daddy is cool.

Until he went to prison or the cemetery.

 

38 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If sex didn't have such a bad stigma attached to it in Western society, I think SOME children wouldn't have a second thought about casually mentioning that their mother is a Prostitute by profession.
Especially if she was making good money and the children looked nice and presentable.

 It would take a lot more than removing a stigma for prostitution to  become an honorable profession.

[Pioneer1]

32 minutes ago, ProfD said:

 

 It would take a lot more than removing a stigma for prostitution to  become an honorable profession.

Did you know in a lot of ancient cultures, they actually had "temple prostitutes" as part of their religious ceremonies?

The temple offered specially designated women to have sex with men to raise money for that temple and certain community affairs.

This was before the Muslims, Christians, and Israelites came into the lands and converted the people over to those religions.

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Did you know in a lot of ancient cultures, they actually had "temple prostitutes" as part of their religious ceremonies?

It still doesn't read like an honorable profession with high earning potential and benefits and a retirement plan.

 

Reads like some sh8t women were obligated to do in obedience to their cultural/religious beliefs. I would not be surprised if the patriarchy was behind it.

[frankster]

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Did you know in a lot of ancient cultures, they actually had "temple prostitutes" as part of their religious ceremonies?

The temple offered specially designated women to have sex with men to raise money for that temple and certain community affairs.

This was before the Muslims, Christians, and Israelites came into the lands and converted the people over to those religions.

Yes....Genesis 38 - The Story of Tamar.

I Will say the following and will not defend it but the story above will answer all questions...Why i will not explain - it is not my desire to mislead the faithful or the unfaithful.

Men Cannot Fornicate....Hieros Gamos

 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

It still doesn't read like an honorable profession with high earning potential and benefits and a retirement plan.

 

Neither does working at Wal-Mart or Target....lol.

 

 

 

Reads like some sh8t women were obligated to do in obedience to their cultural/religious beliefs. I would not be surprised if the patriarchy was behind it.

 

Actually these were in more Egalitarian societies where women pretty had just as much power as men.
The temples were dedicated to goddesses as well as gods.

 

They viewed sex and sexuality differently than people do in the West.