Dr. Lorna Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 I realize many of our brothers and sisters are not concerned with segregation. Many are thinking of how to ensure we as a community do not become another Tulsa or Greenwood. How can we use our literary skills to protect our history, community, and churches against the evils that are transpiring against us? As the Black community, we need to stop trying to hurt each other. We must unite to defeat the enemy, which, unfortunately, can be us.
umbrarchist Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 8 hours ago, Dr. Lorna said: How can we use our literary skills to protect our history, community, Aren't there enough books already? Is the issue separating the wheat from the chaff? Reading takes up time and there is lots to go through. I never heard of Hubert Henry Harrison until his book "When Africa Awakes" turned up in Project Gutenberg. What would be 10 books that the Black literati could agree on? .
Pioneer1 Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 There's a difference between SEGREGATION and SEPARATION. Segregation is when a dominant power forces you to live separately from them and THEY maintain the power and control over both their society and yours. Separation....on the other hand...is when YOU control your own community and resources while other groups control theirs. One of the beautiful things about America is that there isn't just ONE set standard or culture enforced by the government forcing everyone to act and think the same and engage in the same rituals and behavior. We still have the liberty to stray off from the dominant society and do our own thing and find out what works FOR US. I think for AfroAmericans a certain amount of SEPARATION from the White community and other non-FBA communities for that matter is not only healthy for us but will lead to much greater prosperity for OUR community in the future. That Separation doesn't necessarily mean chopping up the country and living in separate states; but it does mean: -building and securing our own SEPARATE neighborhoods -building our own SEPARATE hospitals with our own doctors and nurses and developing our own medicines and medical practices -building our own SEPARATE schools with our own teachers and education curriculum Understand....... When I say Separate, that doesn't mean we ban others from living in OUR neighborhoods, going to OUR schools, or OUR hospitals. But it does mean that WE own and control these institutions, so when people do come around...they must play by OUR rules or leave. 1
ProfD Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 There are cities, towns and communities that provide AfroAmerican tribes with autonomy from the dominant society. AfroAmerican tribes would be well served to protect themselves first and foremost. Then, build strategic alliances with other Black tribes to insure peace and prosperity across the board. If so desired, Black tribes can segregate and separate from the dominant society without being dramatic. Quietly slide smooth the f8ck off.
Pioneer1 Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 ProfD "tribes"???? I see all of those richardmurray posts are having an impact....lol. 2
Troy Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 @Pioneer1 when people start throwing around the word populace then you’ll know the influence is complete I think it is great that Jim Crow laws have been repealed. “Segregation” where people were forced to drink from different fountains could not stay in public hotels use public pools were forced into crappy schools could not get meaningful employment. All those things were bad. however, in desperation to integrate we effectively destroyed many black communities as the professionals and working middle class abandoned “separate” black neighborhoods in favor of white ones. This has been bad too. There have been a bunch of books written on this subject. Disintegration: The Splintering of Black America by Eugene Robinsonis one that I read recently another that I just added to the site is, Black Ghost of Empire: The Long Death of Slavery and the Failure of Emancipation by Kris Manjapra. 1 1
Pioneer1 Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 .....that, and formulating polls that come with 2 page follow-up commentaries, lol. Man, I love it!
ProfD Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: ProfD "tribes"???? I see all of those richardmurray posts are having an impact....lol. Yep. Brotha @richardmurray has reminded me enough that Black folks are not a monolith and that we should move and/or be treated as such. Let every Black tribe hold their own proverbial nutz.
richardmurray Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 hahahah thank you @ProfD @Pioneer1 @Troy namaste:) @umbrarchist that is an excellent question for the forum? the ten must have's mandatories... lot of books to sift through, that is a challenge. One thing is for certain, some big names have to be off that list in all earnest. The literary heritage of the black populace in the usa is quite grand, to just have ten books.. that is a challenge. 8 hours ago, umbrarchist said: What would be 10 books that the Black literati could agree on? @Pioneer1 you just dictated what the exoduster movement was all about. but why did they fail? yes, whites burned/isolated/harmed/poisoned many, potentially all, of their towns. But what was the problem with other blacks? well... The black colleges, Booker t washington, mostly financed by white churches, knew the distant locations for the exodusters, who had to go west to start fresh, was too far for the connection to white churches, especially in congregation. The talented tenth, web dubois, were anti seperatists, they wanted a complete positive integration Garveyites were supportive, many exodusters were garveyites, the idea of a black city in a state in the usa, isn't the exact garveyite goal, but it has enough black empowerments and para isolationism that it gelled. Frederick Douglass, the most vocal black leader at the time, was vehemently against the exodusters. It isn't that he hated black empowerment but truly believed in the composite nation future of the usa, a myriad of peoples , like highly multicolored marble. The peoples are not the same but are so tightly bound to each other they are one, and the separatism of the exodusters was in opposition to that. Like what you say, the exoduster movement wasn't anti usa, or even at its heart anti white, but it was black empowerment/safety/flexibility within the usa aside the enemy white populace in the usa. So the exoduster movement has been dead for over one hundred years and the modern black populace , circa 2025 , unlike in the late 1800s, is highly urbanized so... what you call for is functional, but that is a task. I argue for what it is worth focusing on black towns or counties in the usa with a populace 75% and above which is black and growing one/a set/or long term them all them from the black urban populaces or black populaces that live in white cities or counties. white man says, three cities over 100,000 people have a populace that is over seventy five percent black. Detroit, wayne county[which is majority white] , michigan state which is majority white Jackson , hinds county[ which is majority black], mississippi state which is majority white South Fulton, fulcton county [ which is half black], georgia state which is majority white Now how many counties are majority black, over fifty percent black in the usa, by white man's account Mississippi 25 - and yes white man list hinds as one Georgia 22 Alabama has 11 South Carolina 9 Virginia 9 North Carolina 8 Louisiana 7 arkansas 6 US virgin islands 3 - 100% of the counties of the us virgin islands, the only state/territory with 100% black counties Tennessee 2 Puerto rico 1 maryland 3 florida 1 So based on citiies over 100,000 in the usa plus comparing states with the most black counties. Start in Jackson Mississippi and include all the other black counties. or try the virgin islands Population matters, trust me, black people try to sell strategy, I don't care how much money or how attune you are, if you don't have the numbers, sooner or later the majority will hurt you. So go Pioneer! We all believe in you. county referral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_majority-Black_counties_in_the_United_States cities referrall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_Black_populations but getting the majority of DOSers , millions of people, in a wholesale gesture....that is a task. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I think for AfroAmericans a certain amount of SEPARATION from the White community and other non-FBA communities for that matter is not only healthy for us but will lead to much greater prosperity for OUR community in the future. @Troy It is interesting, the black neighborhoods in nyc/la or other white cities were broken up by more positive integration but I argue, said action exposed what separates a black neighborhood in a white city from a black populace in a black city. A Black Neighborhood in a white city, like harlem, has a huge problem, that it can't evade. It isn't the majority. when I look at the history of harlem, it is clear to me that in an elected system you need the votes, you do. The white orthodox jewish neighborhoods problem in new york city with the schools is that , once one of their own started that court case, the money + influence is simply not enough. And their schools are getting penalized. Their money is making it not as hard as if harlem when black had such terrible grades. And the proof is, Guiliani + Bloomberg pushed charter schools in harlem, with a lot of black help, even though the average grading of black children in harlem was average to better. It wasn't negative like the white orthodox jewish students who by state run test assessments had over 90% failure. Troy can you imagine what black elected officials would say if any black populace in nyc had over 90% failure on state run test? Like David Dinkins tenure with crime, Black students in NYC have been falsely criminalized as failing dangerously, when the truth is, they kept up with the average. The problem is, it wasn't 100% or 0% and too many black people keep wanting that in all things for black folk. But, post vent, the white jewish community had to accept school closings and a state monitor, even though they didn't want to. And that is because you need the votes. Note, Detroit in the 1950s/1960s/1970s, with the Black Flight, was majority white, a white city. Detroit became majority Black, a Black city, in the 1980s after the collapse of the usa auto industry and the collapse of detroit as the auto capitol. The Black sin is, while whites were leaving detroit en masse,Motown, the weatlhiest black owned firm, from Detroit, chose to leave Detroit while it was still majority white, for a white city. Jewish schools in nyc https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2064&type=status Detroit demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit#Demographics 5 hours ago, Troy said: however, in desperation to integrate we effectively destroyed many black communities as the professionals and working middle class abandoned “separate” black neighborhoods in favor of white ones. This has been bad too.
Pioneer1 Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 richardmurray Namaste back to you! That's northern Indian, but would you like me to give you a south Indian (Dravidian) greeting? Vanakum I don't know if I'd consider Wayne County a "white" county. Not only is it half Black. But it also has a very large non-White Latino population and a large Arab population. Don't forget that Dearborn is in Wayne County. Although Arabs are often counted as White, many of them are mixed and actually African/Black. Especially the ones from Yemen who live in a section of Detroit called Hamtramck. 1
richardmurray Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 @Pioneer1 Vanakum Here is the thing about the census, I comprehend completely that the arab is the ancient mulatto, but if they put white on the census well...:)
Pioneer1 Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 richardmurray The original Arabs actually WERE White....or rather Caucasian more accurately. They became mixed up through their migrating and mixing in with the various Black populations of the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. Sometimes I think there should be properly educated and TRAINED experts working for the government who can identify the race of individuals for statistic and census purposes instead of allowing people to do it themselves. When it comes to race and racial identify, most people seem to be confused anyway.
Troy Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 @umbrarchist Here is a reading list I share whenever people ask for must read books for Black people: Ben-Jochannan, Clarke & Van Sertima’s Reading Lists Yes @richardmurray anywhere Black people are lorded over by people who don't care about them is a problem and yes Harlem was one of those problematic locations. I heard school were desegregated in 1954, but I went to segregated underfunded schools. Meanwhile down the street from me literally the white kids got to go to private schools or great public schools. We were all taught the Black history started with slavery and that MLK was a great man and Europeans gave the world civilization.
richardmurray Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 @Pioneer1 28 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Sometimes I think there should be properly educated and TRAINED experts working for the government who can identify the race of individuals for statistic and census purposes instead of allowing people to do it themselves. When it comes to race and racial identify, most people seem to be confused anyway. I see where your coming from, but in the usa, most people across all phenotypes or all other racial categories love the freedom of the individual to reject an implied definition by a lager body, whether the government, the local religious group, their parents, the city government, or the popular clic in the park. I don't think most people are confused in the usa, they love their individual self, and the collectives in the usa [parties of governance /clans/religious groups/scholastic communities/ advocacy groups/ and all others ]rarely are inviting or warm or purposeful as they need to be for their various flocks. @Troy Right the strangification to harlem is one of the results of Harlem being a former black neighborhood in a white city. 48 minutes ago, Troy said: I heard school were desegregated in 1954, but I went to segregated underfunded schools. Meanwhile down the street from me literally the white kids got to go to private schools or great public schools. right, white city government on a black neighborhood. It's funny the white jewish woman who is suing the yeshiva schools is saying the school her child is going to has negative scholastic qualities as you suggest the public school you went to had, and the yeshiva schools are segregated, how are they funded.. I am unsure, no article was willing to reveal that, the mother suggests little is going on at least with her child. The funny thing is, while the public school you went to which was funded by the white city government probably has many who think like you do of it , the yeshiva school , which gets public funds, defended itself saying it has the right to have the curriculum it has, which stings me. I can tell you that white/white asian/white latino/arab/ and all populaces outside of black people in new york city have failing schools , many of them, failing students, many of them , but for some reason, all non black populaces in nyc don't make a big deal of their failing schools or failing students. Troy , why do blacks, the DOSers, treat our failed students or failed schools like that? is it the unique history of enslavement ?all DOSers had in 1865 was education, no land, no money, no power, so all we had was education for self worth. Is that it? all humans know education is important. but no group hounds their failing students or judges so negatively schools with their children than black folks. why? I do feel sad for black people in nyc who failed in the scholastic system as children and had to deal with the houndings of black people, especially their elders, while all these other populaces in nyc have just as much failure if not moreso. but , no one seems to give a ... Eric Adams got on television and made so many speeches about black children as not doing enough, coming from broken homes, and needing mental help while black children were doing average. But when he gets the statistics from the state run test all children get, to white schools that return over 90% failure, no speech, what about those white kids mental health, or aspirational energy, where is all the condenmation that could easily be given to black children for being average, that is totally absent to failed white children, who i may add are in a school run by their literal elders. I .. [and for the record I went to public schools all over ninety five percent black, I will say averagely funded, I can't say if under or above the average, so any one reading this, the problem isn't public schools, and my parents went to public schools in nyc, sadly for them with all white teachers or mostly white teachers] 41 minutes ago, Troy said: We were all taught the Black history started with slavery and that MLK was a great man and Europeans gave the world civilization. Well.... how you teach a subject matters and the history of education in white european countries which the USA is has always been about defining what is correct, not discourse, not multilog, not study. It is about stating what is correct and drilling it into children's minds to make that statement correct in beyond the schools in normal discourse of the day. Most history books, and all history books for children elementary age [including at the private schools or great public schools] don't even go into a proper explanation of race/government/peace/war/naming things/variances in human heritage or culture/ and more which they should before they go into the history of humans beings. In this very forum with adults, black adults, the definition of black is not uniform, so how can black history be explained to the elementary children in the usa satisfactorily when the goal is pushing concepts as true or false. Black isn't african, white isn't european. The book you say said Black history started with slavery, properly worded enslavement. also said slavery ended in the usa, which is a lie. So I just want to say many children's education in the usa is based on poorly taught subjects. MAny , and said many includes most whites as well. 1
Troy Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: properly educated and TRAINED experts working for the government who can identify the race of individuals for statistic and census purposes Dude you should find a different word to use than race. It is impossible to create a universally accepted method of determine one's race, as you already know there is no genetic test one can take -- you could even assign a race to someone consistently. Plus what Richard said.
umbrarchist Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 (edited) Found this in the library database. Should be able to order to the local library Monday. I have been thinking in terms of intellectual segregation for years. Maybe separation is more accurate but we must remember that Physics and Technology do not care. Edited March 23 by umbrarchist Add paragraph 1
richardmurray Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 @Troy 4 hours ago, Troy said: It is impossible to create a universally accepted method of determine one's race In Amendment, one of the problems with education of all subjects in white european based schools are subjects are presented as if universally accepted. This is why Nippon is called Japan. Why the history of various peoples in humanity is deemed this or that. why the system of government in the usa is called the optimum form of democracy. All these things are not universally accepted but presented as such. I argue the better thing to teach is that what you are taught isn't universally accepted and no universally accepted definition is needed.
umbrarchist Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 1 hour ago, richardmurray said: the better thing to teach is that what you are taught isn't universally accepted and no universally accepted definition is needed. It is universally accepted that Europe is a continent even though there is no water separating the land area called Europe from the land area called Asia.
Pioneer1 Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 Troy & richardmurray When the police want to identify a subject, there is NO confusion among them about how to describe/identify them even when it comes to race. " I got a male...white...about 25 to 30 years of age in a blue t-shirt and jeans running through the parking lot with a gun" "I'm pulling over a female...black..." "We're gonna be looking for a male...hispanic...about 5'3...." There is NO confusion among them. Across the nation from Maine to California they all will use the same gender and racial descriptions and won't give a damn what the suspect "identifies" as. Whether or not people agree on race, ethnicity, sex, and gender...clearly most government agencies have already made up their minds as to the categories most people fit in.
ProfD Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 Race may be a social construct but white folks have definitely embraced using it to maintain their power and domination over non-white folks. Other folks use race and ethnicity to differentiate themselves. As @Pioneer1 mentioned above, there's no confusion among white folks when it comes to describing folks especially Black and Brown. Look no further than how 1) law enforcement deals with folks, 2) Black history is being erased and 3) illegal immigrants are being rounded up. Race is made up but IMO it is a universally accepted reality. Just ask people who have been marginalized and/or profiled for one reason or another. 1
richardmurray Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 @umbrarchist I have heard white people call europe a subcontinent @Pioneer1 first you said this 19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Although Arabs are often counted as White, many of them are mixed and actually African/Black. second this 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Sometimes I think there should be properly educated and TRAINED experts working for the government who can identify the race of individuals for statistic and census purposes instead of allowing people to do it themselves. third this 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Across the nation from Maine to California they all will use the same gender and racial descriptions and won't give a damn what the suspect "identifies" as. Whether or not people agree on race, ethnicity, sex, and gender...clearly most government agencies have already made up their minds as to the categories most people fit in. Ok, first was a racial designation you accept. no problem, race is a natural thing, open to be defined infinite ways, but no way is wrong or right, only adhered to or not. second is an administrative desire , with the unknown factors of properly educated and trained experts which are totally open ended. who determines a proper education or expert training? I realize you have a definition of both but do others share this. and law enforcement in the usa, while they have a racial labeling system , I do not consider educated positively [proper is true, it is for themselves, but clearly negative to those they interact with in the usa] or trained positively [their actions in the field prove their training is negative, expert as in built from the experience of a heritage abusing others absent penalty, yes, very expert in that sense ] third, you refer to the nomenclature of usa law enforcement, which is different from the nomenclature of chinese law enforcement or russian law enforcement. Now to defend me or @Troy we were focused on education, and race in education. Which your points to me don't connect to. to be blunt, if you teach a child that race should be as the law enforcement of the usa designates that would be an educational disservice. I will say this, if I am the leader of a school, I will not allow that for the law enforcement of the usa's racial designations are not only ignorant but have a heritage of false implication which is one of the key things you have to teach children not to do. Making universal assumptions on partially accepted racial views is the primary negative with how humans deal with race. No racial view is universally accepted, nor can be. So me nor Troy deny that law enforcement in the usa, which has an ugly history, has a set of racial designations. But to suggest law enforcement in the usa warrant adherence ... I oppose. And I oppose totally accepting the application of said designation onto me as i live in the usa. By your reckoning Kunta should had accepted his name was Toby then. Your first name/primary name is a race. @ProfD race isn't a social construct, you call yourself human, the species of this planet are races, the dolphins/humans/woodpeckers are all species who have within their group variances, woodpeckers comes in many forms, orcas are dolphins and yet orcas look different than the dolphins people love to see swimming merrily in the ocean, in the same way black humans or white humans are humans. Phenotype is a valid racial designation. The problem with phenotype is that it has a long heritage by humans of denying humanity to other humans. Do you know why a male lion kills a baby lion made from another male lion and a female lion? because it isn't the male lions baby. In the same way you have a family name, a race, and humans in clans have killed members of opposing clans. Do you know how a clan of woodpeckers in a tree in the south west who look identical to human eyes, can tell the difference between another woodpecker of another clan from another tree? phenotype, in the same way blacks have killed fellow humans who appear white while whites have killed fellow humans who appear black. This is what I tried to explain about history books, races/categories/nomenclatures are natural, but they are not rigid things. Races change that is the social aspect that @Troy and others refer but it isn't a construct of humans it is a natural thing in all life. To say it is a social construct is to reduce a natural thing that is in all life, to a human choice. That is human arrogance. Race is like the constant of integration. If some one says, B^2 , b an unknown value to the second power. The integral is (B^3)/3+C why , the C is a real value but not determinable. Race is like that, it isn't meant to have a rigid definition like the number 2, everyone knows 2 is 2, but it is naturally present like the number 2. @Pioneer1 In Amendment, you said 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Across the nation from Maine to California but here is the thing, the president of the united states of america is always referred to as from a state in the usa, do you know why? the usa's best racial classification is federation. Federation is a race of governments, which include brasil or nigeria. The USA isn't a nation state, like Monaco or swaziland. The nation states in the usa are the states, remember each colony in the british empire was treated as an individual entity. New York is a nation. Pennsylvania is a nation. The USA is a federation, my point being, back to history or history books, race requires a detail about affairs that most often, history books made from the white european populace don't have. But are needed.
Pioneer1 Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 richardmurray I gave that illustration not to suggest that we should ADAPT the racial classifications of U.S. law enforcement. I was simply using it as an example of how "on code" and unified the nation and most of it's institutions already are when it comes to racial identification and how suggesting...or perhaps insisting in some cases...that everyone adhere to the same standard for certain purposes (such as statistics and census) isn't such a far fetched idea. About 80% of Americans agree on most of the TERMS we use for race anyway, even if most don't agree on who QUALIFIES to fit into those terms. In other words.... Not that these terms are accurate...but if you talk to the average American, they'll use terms like Black, White, Asian, Latino, even "Mixed" to describe the race of somebody. Most people don't use terms like "African American" or "Caucasian" or "Mongoloid" in casual speech. The vast majority of people in our nation/society use the same racial terms. The only major variance is when it comes to describing people as Native American or Indian. It's pretty much even as to which term people prefer to use. Again, not that these terms are accurate....but it illustrates that most people are already onboard with clear and established racial categories. So the only question is WHO has the authority to decide who fits into which category? Trump and his fellow conservatives are already assuming authority over the sex/gender categories by declaring there are only 2 sexes/genders and forcing everyone to identify as one or the other. So in that regard.... Your fellow Americans who are in love with being able to pick and choose who and what they are and who they identify as are getting that privilege snatched away from them anyway. 1
umbrarchist Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 28 minutes ago, richardmurray said: umbrarchist I have heard white people call europe a subcontinent A dissident minority. They will be burned at the stake. .
Pioneer1 Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 When I suggest having an authorized body make the decision of who fits into which racial category for statistic and census purposes; some of you may be picturing a panel full of white folks looking like Karen and Brad sitting up there making the decisions for everybody else should be categorized as. No. That is NOT what I'm suggesting or picturing at all. I'm suggesting that a truly diversified and educated board of Americans of ALL racial and ethnic communities making common sense and scientifically based decisions as to how people should be classified and that will be used as a template for training others on how people should be racially and ethnically categorized for SPECIFIC PURPOSES like census, statistics, etc... It wouldn't be ONE person doing the classification but a DIVERSE PANEL of well trained people who all agree on that person's classification for that particular event. However despite this....each individual will still maintain the freedom to identify themselves as whatever they like. But I think this is necessary because there are certain funds and benefits (or atleast there used to be before Trump) that go to communities, colleges, hospitals, and other institutions based on how many Black or Latino or others of a particular group are there. If too many actual Black folks start calling themselves "White" or "Mixed"...that could fuck up the program. So we can't have somebody like Candace Owens....who for the most part is Black/AfroAmerican...being allowed to call herself "White" on the census form because she chooses to identify as such based on her conservative ideology or some White grand parent. ....her ignorance could cost us money. Or have Ethiopians and Eritrieans in the community running around calling themselves White too simply because they have thin noses and wavy hair. ....their ignorance could cost us money and funds. No. We should have an established and set standard that a diverse panel of experts agree on that everyone must adhere to. umbrarchist They will be burned at the stake. I say "swap them out" for those who are actually using "Gulf of America" in serious discussions now....lol.
ProfD Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 @Pioneer1, I'd like to how Black folks would benefit from a diverse group doing racial classification here in America. I doubt that it would result in reparations for FBA/ADOS.
Pioneer1 Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 ProfD I'd like to how Black folks would benefit from a diverse group doing racial classification here in America. I doubt that it would result in reparations for FBA/ADOS Well.... Speaking OF Reparations for FBA/ADOS- When those Reparations checks are actually doled out, ideally this diverse group has already identified who ARE the FBA/ADOS vs who are the tethers and "yo yo bro's" with blonde dreadlocks claiming Blackness to collect a check. I keep stressing "diverse" because obviously an all White or any panel without a significant FBA presence would be suspect and couldn't be expected to have our best interests in mind. However I believe the FBA's on the panel would come through. Especially a lot of the younger straight brothers who have seen and felt the sting of anti-FBA treatment from a lot of these other groups so if they jump up claiming to be something that they're not....they'll shut that shit down real quick. Punks jump up to be SHUT down...lol. But it starts from the top. A national board or panel with a significant FBA presence establishing clear rules and boundaries as to who can be considered Black, who can be considered FBA, etc...for LEGAL purposes like when it comes to getting checks, grants, and getting certain positions that call for a person of a certain race or ethnicity. And again, individuals can identify however they like on their own. But your ass ain't gonna be sitting up their looking like Elon Musk demanding a Reparations check because you're an "African" American.
ProfD Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: A national board or panel with a significant FBA presence establishing clear rules and boundaries as to who can be considered Black, who can be considered FBA, etc...for LEGAL purposes like when it comes to getting checks, grants, and getting certain positions that call for a person of a certain race or ethnicity. Too late for any semblance of that happening. The current administration is trying to rip up, tear down and do away with anything that has to do with race. @Troy might get his wish but I don't think it's going to be a good thing for Black folks and non-whites.
Troy Posted March 24 Report Posted March 24 Here we go again… On 3/23/2025 at 8:15 AM, Pioneer1 said: We're gonna be looking for a male...hispanic...about 5'3 You simply cannot look at someone and tell they are Hispanic — any more than you could tell where they were born. On 3/23/2025 at 8:15 AM, Pioneer1 said: When the police want to identify a subject, there is NO confusion among them about how to describe/identify them even when it comes to race. Of course there is confusion. You just choose not to acknowledge it. They screw up on all aspects of a physical appearance height, so-called race, even gender. On 3/23/2025 at 9:48 AM, ProfD said: Race may be a social construct but white folks have definitely embraced using it to maintain their power and domination over non-white folks. Race is a diversion. Irish people Italian people weren’t considered white until recently. Who do you think came up with the term poor white trash. Over the centuries, religion class ethnicity, and yes, so-called race was used for the wealthy to maintain their power. Over us morons arguing over a race. 22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ALL racial and ethnic communities making common sense and scientifically based decisions This is nonsensical. Race is not based on science! 22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Candace Owens....who for the most part is Black/AfroAmerican...being allowed to call herself "White" on the census form because she chooses to identify as such based on her conservative ideology or some White grand parent. If Candace decided to call herself white, it makes perfect sense given how many phenotypically white people were deemed as black because of the one drop rule. 15 hours ago, ProfD said: Troy might get his wish but I don't think it's going to be a good thing for Black folks and non-whites. I’m not sure specifically what you’re referring to. But I do think in the final analysis we’d be better off not keeping track of this so-called race…. In the long-term.
ProfD Posted March 24 Report Posted March 24 52 minutes ago, Troy said: Races at diversion. Irish people Italian people weren’t considered white until recently. Yep. White folks in America stopped using their ethnicity in order to consolidate their majority in numbers and maintain power. 52 minutes ago, Troy said: I’m not sure specifically what you’re referring to. But I do think in the final analysis we’d be better off not keeping track of this so-called race…. In the long-term. The current administration is trying to eliminate race from education and employment. They have already taken us back to using two genders. No more pronouns.
Troy Posted March 24 Report Posted March 24 On 3/22/2025 at 9:40 PM, umbrarchist said: Found this in the library database. You can also Eric Williams‘s books here each book has its own page with the lake to your closest local library with a copy 10 hours ago, ProfD said: The current administration is trying to eliminate race from education If you made the ending the teaching of black history or African history rather than that’s a problem. If you mean, no longer keep track of the color of people skin again I think it a long-term we would be better served. If you can give me a counter argument, on why you think we need to keep track of people’s skin color and how that has served us, I’m all eyes. I think the argument about genders is different than the one about so-called race. How many genders are there?
ProfD Posted March 24 Report Posted March 24 37 minutes ago, Troy said: If you made the ending the teaching of black history or African history rather than that’s a problem. I beiieve they willl try to abolish teaching rwcial aspects of history especially when education goes back to the states. 37 minutes ago, Troy said: f you can give me a counter argument, on why you think we need to keep track of people’s skin color and how that has served us, I’m all eyes. The dominant society will keep track of race even as they claim moving towards a colorblind society. As it stands, skin color means something as they specifically refer to Black people when it comes to any type of discrimination, hiring practices, housing, education, voting. etc. 37 minutes ago, Troy said: I think the argument about genders is different than the one about so-called race. How many genders are there? There's always been only two genders as far as I'm concerted. Whatever folks claim or pretend to be is on them. When it comes to sports and designated bathrooms, it's male and female. No confusion.
Pioneer1 Posted March 24 Report Posted March 24 Troy You simply cannot look at someone and tell they are Hispanic — any more than you could tell where they were born. I agree. Now tell that to the average police officer who will uses that as a racial description. This is nonsensical. Race is not based on science! It's just as scientifically based as sex, however you don't want to accept it regardless as to the amount of evidence and even proof provided for you. But I do think in the final analysis we’d be better off not keeping track of this so-called race… As long as racism exists...we should. How else can you track racism and racial discrimination? If you can give me a counter argument, on why you think we need to keep track of people’s skin color and how that has served us, I’m all eyes. ((Pioneer1 raises his hand)) Oooooh....oooooh....I CAN!! Let ME answer it!!! .....lol. Suppose we go with your argument that race doesn't exist. If race doesn't exist...then that would mean RACISM doesn't exist either. So if YOU'RE classified as "Black" and are mistreated and denied employment by someone classified as "White", BECAUSE of your skin color....you wouldn't have any grounds to claim racism or racial discrimination because according to YOU it doesn't exist. In places like Cuba and a lot of other Socialist/Communist Latin American nations...racism is rampant but not documented. Why? Because in Socialist/Communist ideology...racial distinctions don't exist, therefor RACISM doesn't exist. So a lot of Black and Brown people are STILL discriminated against but suffer in silence because they don't know how to articulate what they're going through since there's no category for it. No matter what YOU choose to believe...White folks KNOW who they are and KNOW you aren't one of them. They will CONTINUE to mistreat you because of your "race" "skin tone" or whatever you choose to call it whether YOU understand or acknowledge that's the reason they're doing it or not. So if you don't want to accept that racial differences exist....that's STILL not going to stop White folks from being racist and practicing racism. All that will do is just cause more confusion among people of color who will wander around looking stupid and clueless as to why they are in the conditions they are in without the slightest clue that racism may be the reason. ...because racism doesn't exist. ...because race doesn't exist. So it must be because they have bad breath that they are being targeted by the police, over incarcerated, denied jobs, and segregated to certain barrios. richardmurray yes your point is clear now Is that a good or bad thing???? 1
Troy Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 On 3/24/2025 at 7:20 PM, Pioneer1 said: It's just as scientifically based as sex, however you don't want to accept it regardless as to the amount of evidence,,, OK, please explain the scientific basis of race. I’ll wait…. On 3/24/2025 at 7:20 PM, Pioneer1 said: As long as racism exists...we should. How else can you track racism and racial discrimination? No, that is the problem. The effort of tracking race is the very thing that perpetuates racism. @Pioneer1 again you are conflicting arguments. The lack of a scientific basis for racism does not mean that racism does not exist — obviously racism, exists. Part of the reason this website exists is because of racism. I think understanding that we are all one race Might be a step in the right direction of having a more harmonious world If people wanna fight, they can still fight over nationality and religion. there’s never been a shortage of things for people to fight over. In 2025 we definitely should not still be fighting over the artificial constructive race.
Pioneer1 Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 Troy OK, please explain the scientific basis of race. I’ll wait…. I've done so already over a dozen times. And each time you either: 1. Find the article and point to some OTHER information in it that doesn't actually contradict the proof of race that I provided but will CLAIM that it does and try to focus our attention on THAT instead of the actual proof I provided. or 2. Simply just IGNORE the proof I provided for you and pretend that I didn't even post it, then proceed to singing some Michael Jackson "We Are The World" song about all humans being one, race doesn't exist, and should just get along with eachother....lol. I learn from my mistakes.....lol. No, that is the problem. The effort of tracking race is the very thing that perpetuates racism. That's like saying that keeping track of crime CAUSES crime. Just because you don't document it, doesn't mean it's not happening. I think understanding that we are all one race Might be a step in the right direction of having a more harmonious world See! Before I even read this part! See...look what you're doing! Man, I know you....lol. All this claiming "we're all in the same race" and this MC Hammer West Coast...."We're All In The Same Gang"....talk do is just going to lead to more CONFUSION. As I said earlier, White folks are going to know who THEY are and will know that YOU are different from them and will still try to dominate and in many cases mistreat you regardless as to what you want to tell or call yourself.
ProfD Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 7 hours ago, Troy said: I think understanding that we are all one race Might be a step in the right direction of having a more harmonious world Humans have been in conflict for thousands of years. Being of the same species hasn't made humans more harmonious. Still fighting over one thing or another. Ignoring race and ethnicity won't make a difference in the way humans treat each other either. I believe replacing greed, jealousy, envy and hate with love would solve differences and problems among humans would overnight. As it stands, we have to accept that differences in race and ethnicity have an effect on human interactions. H8ll, when people meet each other from different citiies, states, towns, countries, etc., there's a process of feeling each other out.
Troy Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Find the article You have never produced the article. The scientifically proves the concept of race.. I can say that confidently because no scientific article doing that would exist. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: That's like saying that keeping track of crime CAUSES crime. It’s not the same thing because crime is not an artificial construct. It’s an actual thing. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: White folks are going to know who THEY are and will know that YOU are different from them and will still try to dominate and in many cases mistreat you regardless as to what you want to tell or call yourself. I’m more concerned that someone is trying to mistreat me.. The motivation for doing so it’s a little consequence if I’ve done nothing wrong to . if someone is mistreating you does it matter if they are doing it because you are an American or you’re black or your Christian or your Muslim you stop the domination anymore than it matters what they are. 23 minutes ago, ProfD said: Ignoring race and ethnicity I did not say ignore ethnicity. ethnicity is a real thing. Ethnic diversity should be celebrated. 26 minutes ago, ProfD said: Being of the same species hasn't made humans more harmonious. Still fighting over one thing or another. Sure, but the truth of the matter is people don’t fight simply because their skin is a different color. They fight over land and wealth. The color of one skin is just an excuse to justify it. If people understood that the concept of racist nonsense it would be hard to justify the violence and exploitation we level against people because of race,
ProfD Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 22 minutes ago, Troy said: Sure, but the truth of the matter is people don’t fight simply because their skin is a different color. They fight over land and wealth. The color of one skin is just an excuse to justify it. If people understood that the concept of racist nonsense it would be hard to justify the violence and exploitation we level against people because of race, One man started a whole world war believing white is the master race. Foreigners are taking over the continent of Africa because they don't believe Black folks deserve the land. The current administration is chiseling away at American institutions to insure that white men are in the most powerful positions. Race matters. It has been a thing for hundreds of years and counting. I don't see any real movement towards a colorblind society.
Troy Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, ProfD said: One man started a whole world war believing white is the master race. I presume you are talking about Hitler wasn’t he the same dude that started out killing 6 million or so of the white people? 3 minutes ago, ProfD said: Foreigners are taking over the continent of Africa because they don't believe Black folks deserve the land. They want the land because of its material wealth the people already there incidental. 5 minutes ago, ProfD said: The current administration is chiseling away at American institutions to insure that white men are in the most powerful positions. This is par for course. 5 minutes ago, ProfD said: Race matters. It has been a thing for hundreds of years and counting. I don't see any real movement towards a colorblind society. There won’t be either the people who are fixated on race will need to die off first. The people behind them are much less fixated on race, so I do believe we are headed toward a color blind society.
richardmurray Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 @Troy 10 hours ago, Troy said: I think understanding that we are all one race Might be a step in the right direction of having a more harmonious world I think all humans know humanity is one species right but even in that context, their are midgets, people with cerebral palsy, people born a certain way, certains ways are races. Genetic lineage is race, your name is troy johnson, johnson ia a clan name but a clan is a race, their re many johnson clans, based on genetic lineage, easily proven through dna test, those clans are races within the human race. And even with phenotype, let's be blunt, phenotype, appearance has genetic markers. If someone ask to prove they are in your bloodline troy? the dna sequence will expose if they have relation to you If someone ask to prove they are black like you? the dna sequence will expose their phenotype, even if they are albino, because the dna sequence for your skin color, eye shape, nose, will still be in theirs, even if albino. If someone ask to prove their african lineage like you? the dna sequence will expose their geographic genetic ancestry. Some forms of race are provable today through dna, but they didn't need proof. All forms of race are based on something and where anyone fits with said something determines if they are a member of said race or not. In latin america, they had the castas which made terms like negro, alvino or zambo based on the lineage. but in anglo america they had the one drop rule which made black based on the lineage. negro means black but in the context of latin america or anglo america it is two difference racial definitions. In the casta having a negro ancestor doesn't mean you are automatically negro. In the one drop having a white ancestor aside a black ancestor doesn't mean you are a particular race not white or black.
ProfD Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 2 hours ago, Troy said: I presume you are talking about Hitler wasn’t he the same dude that started out killing 6 million or so of the white people? They were not the *right* white people in his mind. 2 hours ago, Troy said: They want the land because of its material wealth the people already there incidental. They disrespect and mistreat the people because they are Black. 2 hours ago, Troy said: There won’t be either the people who are fixated on race will need to die off first. The people behind them are much less fixated on race, so I do believe we are headed toward a color blind society. In my eternal optimism, I do believe a catastrophic event will occur at some point in time forcing humans to take care of each other.
Pioneer1 Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 Troy It’s not the same thing because crime is not an artificial construct. It’s an actual thing. So is crime! Crime is simply the breaking of a MAN MADE law. If there were no man-made laws...you wouldn't have actual crime. Both are artificially constructed concepts. Think carefully about that one...lol. I’m more concerned that someone is trying to mistreat me.. The motivation for doing so it’s a little consequence if I’ve done nothing wrong to . if someone is mistreating you does it matter if they are doing it because you are an American or you’re black or your Christian or your Muslim. It matters because: 1. You aren't being mistreated because of your actual behavior, but because of who you are; which you can't help. 2. You want to notice a pattern. If you are mistreated for having a particular trait then you want to warn all your loved ones and friends who may share that same trait...be it skin color, religion, or gender...so they won't fall victim to the same mistreatment or worse. I did not say ignore ethnicity. ethnicity is a real thing. Ethnic diversity should be celebrated. Race is actually more real than ethnicity. Race is based on biological differences. -skin color -facial features -hair structure Ethnicity is based on geographical and cultural similarities than be changed by the individual at will. Hitler wasn’t he the same dude that started out killing 6 million or so of the white people? The crazy part was.... Hitler was so racist that he didn't believe they were "White enough". He killed them because he didn't think they were White enough and thought they were "contaminating" the population of the "pure" Whites. richardmurray @richardmurray alvino or zambo based on the lineage. As an old Negro would say: Now....now...wait a minute now....now HOLD ON now...lol I believe I know what a "Zambo" is. Half African and half Native American. But what is an "Alvino"? Sounds too much like "Albino". Is Alvino some sort of out dated racial concoction?
Troy Posted March 27 Report Posted March 27 10 hours ago, richardmurray said: And even with phenotype, let's be blunt, phenotype, appearance has genetic markers. That is an oversimplification, implying that there is a genetic test for race. There is not one. I’m sure there are so-called white people who have more in common with you genetically than I do. Sure, we mapped the Genome, but you can’t look at anyone’s jeans and determine exactly what they’re gonna look like some jeans have characteristics that I’ve never expressed there’s environment in a whole wide variety of factors that go into how we look… 10 hours ago, richardmurray said: genetic lineage, easily proven through dna test Sure lineage can be traced through DNA but again this has nothing to do with race because race has no basis in genetics. 10 hours ago, richardmurray said: because the dna sequence for your skin color, eye shape, nose, will still be in theirs, even if albino. I’m not sure that’s true. It’s counterintuitive, Did you just conjure that up or have you studied the subjects sufficiently to make that statement. 10 hours ago, richardmurray said: Some forms of race are provable today through dna, but they didn't need proof. show me anything from a reputable source that supports that statement. Does ancestry or 23 and me provide your “race” in their DNA test? 10 hours ago, richardmurray said: black but in the context of latin america or anglo america it is two difference racial definitions. Here too, you make my point if it’s all based on genetics how can there be two different definitions of race based on the geography? 10 hours ago, ProfD said: They were not the *right* white people in his mind. So then the point you were making is completely lost on me. 10 hours ago, ProfD said: They disrespect and mistreat the people because they are Black. I would not be so quick to wrap Chinese people in the same Eurocentric racial crap we’ve come to know in America. I think that’s reductive. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Crime is simply the breaking of a MAN MADE law. Boy you are Wiley creature aren’t you sure Laws as a man-made. Using your logic by extension everything is man-made, which makes your original distinction nonsensical. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race is based on biological differences. -skin color -facial features -hair structure so says you. Your opinion on the characteristics of racial designations are not universally accepted, as Richard described in his last response. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Ethnicity is based on geographical and cultural similarities than be changed by the individual at will Race is more easily changed too… @Pioneer1 what race do “mulattos” far under? Mulatto as used in the US census? 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The crazy part was.... Hitler was so racist that he didn't believe they were "White enough". He killed them because he didn't think they were White enough and thought they were "contaminating" the population of the "pure" Whites. Killing 6 million Jews wasn’t crazy enough for you? Here too you make my point about the absurdity of race. Looking at Hitler explain to me how he would judge any European Jew as less pure racially than he was?
ProfD Posted March 27 Report Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Troy said: So then the point you were making is completely lost on me. Hitler believed in the writings of Arthur de Gobineau and Hans F. K. Gunther who defined Aryan master race. Jews didn't fit it. 1 hour ago, Troy said: I would not be so quick to wrap Chinese people in the same Eurocentric racial crap we’ve come to know in America. I think that’s reductive. Feel free to wrap them slow. Regardless, many Chinese people are just as if not more anti-Black than white folks.
KENNETH Posted March 27 Report Posted March 27 On 3/22/2025 at 9:50 AM, Troy said: @Pioneer1 when people start throwing around the word populace then you’ll know the influence is complete I think it is great that Jim Crow laws have been repealed. “Segregation” where people were forced to drink from different fountains could not stay in public hotels use public pools were forced into crappy schools could not get meaningful employment. All those things were bad. however, in desperation to integrate we effectively destroyed many black communities as the professionals and working middle class abandoned “separate” black neighborhoods in favor of white ones. This has been bad too. There have been a bunch of books written on this subject. Disintegration: The Splintering of Black America by Eugene Robinsonis one that I read recently another that I just added to the site is, Black Ghost of Empire: The Long Death of Slavery and the Failure of Emancipation by Kris Manjapra. Troy I read Eugene Robinson's book several years ago and found it very insightful and thought provoking on issues of race, community, class, and identity. With that in mind I think Black people in America are more complicated and diverse than ever. Depending on age, income, and education there are differences in our Perceptions of Race and Racism. Ideas of freedom, protest, self help, integration, separation, and community no longer resonate with many black people. Things are different now. The Baby Boomers and Gen X myself in the latter see things and care about things younger people don't. That can be very bad or very good. Maybe the best we can hope for is that black people just keep living and striving individually and collectively. Whether it's separation or integration may not matter. 1
ProfD Posted March 27 Report Posted March 27 2 hours ago, KENNETH said: Ideas of freedom, protest, self help, integration, separation, and community no longer resonate with many black people. Things are different now. The Baby Boomers and Gen X myself in the latter see things and care about things younger people don't. That can be very bad or very good. Maybe the best we can hope for is that black people just keep living and striving individually and collectively. Whether it's separation or integration may not matter. Very true. As a GenXer myself, I have accepted that Black folks are in different stations or as brotha @richardmurray points out...different tribes. Regardless, I will continue 1) calling out the system of racism white supremacy and 2) demanding reparations for America's original sin. I realize my tribe is small.
Pioneer1 Posted March 28 Report Posted March 28 Troy That is an oversimplification, implying that there is a genetic test for race. There is not one. I’m sure there are so-called white people who have more in common with you genetically than I do. The genetic tests for race aren't labeled "Black" or "White" but test for skin color, eye color, hair texture, and other racial features that are genetic traits. sure Laws as a man-made. Well if you agree that laws are "man made" then you should agree that laws are by definition ARTIFICIAL. so says you. Your opinion on the characteristics of racial designations are not universally accepted, as Richard described in his last response. The validity of truth isn't based on broad based "acceptance". what race do “mulattos” far under? Mulatto as used in the US census? They actually shouldn't fall under ANY race, as they are race unto themselves. A combination of 2 separate races. Just like Purple is a color unto itself, a combination of 2 separate colors. Here too you make my point about the absurdity of race. Looking at Hitler explain to me how he would judge any European Jew as less pure racially than he was? It doesn't matter how absurd it is...or atleast YOU BELIEVE it is, it was real to Hitler! He took it seriously and those who did the killing for him also took his beliefs seriously. The thing about race and racism is, it doesn't matter whether YOU believe it exists or not...most people do and build their world around it. Kenneth Maybe the best we can hope for is that black people just keep living and striving individually and collectively. Whether it's separation or integration may not matter. It's not the BEST thing we can hope for as a community, but certainly ONE OF THE BEST! I think this is very sound advice some of our people need to help get them through hard and confusing times.
richardmurray Posted March 29 Report Posted March 29 @Pioneer1 On 3/26/2025 at 6:43 PM, Pioneer1 said: As an old Negro would say: Now....now...wait a minute now....now HOLD ON now...lol I believe I know what a "Zambo" is. Half African and half Native American. But what is an "Alvino"? Sounds too much like "Albino". Is Alvino some sort of out dated racial concoction? well, yes, zambo is half black african or negro /half first people or indios or native american Alvino is euqivalent to octaroon basically a mulatto, half white european half black african , has a child with a white european it is a quadroon , a 4th not white european, the comparative term i forget. But when the quadroon has a child with a white european is it an octaroon , an eigth not white european or an alvino. Alvino + albino have a similar root meaning white. The idea with alvino is this is some who has achieved through lineage , a true white label. remember the modern american continent in the past was completely cut up in english/french/spanish/portuguese/dutch parts and that was it, those five. But, four of them: french/spanish/portuguese/dutch barely brought white european women, so all four of them started a culture of mixed race children as landowners, which creates the modern heritage all of those sectors share. But the english brought many white european women, so in the english part of the white european imperial cut up of modernly called American Continent, mixed babies were treated negatively, ala the one drop rule, whereas in haiti even before desallines/all through spanish or portuguese domains/in dutch new amsterdam for example, white black babies were land owners because those white european men didn't bring their local woman so ... Outdated is a dangerous term... is it common? no, is it in the streets of rio or tinochtichtlan or caracas ? no but in certain communities, old wealth in latin america, including haiti, people will ask who are you, and not just are you a good person or have money, what is your lineage. The point of the castas is race by lineage. Is it opposite of the one drop rule heritage in the usa specifically? yes , very much so. You used the word concoction, a thing cooked up. To this day in europe, people in certain communities want to know lineage as far back. That sort of detailing can be tiresome especially up against the usa individualism, but I argue it is better for a set of populaces: indigenous of all phenotype/white european/black african that aren't friends or allies or equals to have a detailed lineage concern over a one drop rule which led to a ton of passing. but the majority in the usa and the larger humanity it governs have adopted the individualism mantra of the usa, which on the positive level, rejects the need for lineage knowing or detailed background, focusing on the now of an individual. @Troy On 3/26/2025 at 10:20 PM, Troy said: That is an oversimplification, implying that there is a genetic test for race. There is not one. I’m sure there are so-called white people who have more in common with you genetically than I do. Sure, we mapped the Genome, but you can’t look at anyone’s jeans and determine exactly what they’re gonna look like some jeans have characteristics that I’ve never expressed there’s environment in a whole wide variety of factors that go into how we look… It is interesting that you suggest simplification when I didn't suggest anything was simple, I simply definition. The human genome is a very large compound, one of the largest chemicals out there. and that doesn't include how it relates to its cousin rna, but here is the problem. You accept the mapping of dna + rna is true. and it is proven that people who are born with uncommon traits [albinism/melanism/fewer toes or fingers/various brain qualities] usually have changes in that sequence, the health of the mother or womb is the other factor, that is environmental. But it is fact that a baby born with certain uncommon dna qualities with have changes in their appearance, and skin color, is appearance. But no one... in this multilog is denying none of said folk are human. The genetic knowledge seekers know the exact genes for hair or eye color. That is phenotype. But I comprehend your position, it comes from the frederick douglass heritage, you accept the existence of the human race, plus you accept the sub race of gender, both are proven through gene sequence, as humans has differences from their dna sequence in length or placement/composition to non humans, while the genetic sequence in humans has known markers for male/female/hermaphrodite , but you oppose, as frederick douglass that skin color or more complex phenotypical classifications can be determined through the gene sequence explicitly. Yes all elements of living organisms can change to environment, but I am 100% a baby with milk pinkish skin side a baby with dark chocolate skin have either direct genetic markers or have a specific arrangement of genetic markers that can be tested to be for all similar babies. I don't think what i just said is simple, just the truth. On 3/26/2025 at 10:20 PM, Troy said: Sure lineage can be traced through DNA but again this has nothing to do with race because race has no basis in genetics. ahhh now I see, I have to always remember when I speak with you, you look at race in a very other way than I do. And thus we shouldn't communicate on this issue, because we are not talking about the same thing. When I say race i mean any form of classification or ordering. You define race very specifically compared to me, so.. on that note, it nulifies any position. You said before I was simple, but I am not being simple, I am being different. Your definition and mine aren't the same so it is automatic rejection of terms of definitions. Which isn't a problem but from a multilog perspective is dysfunction, it just leads to either of us naysaying each other. On 3/26/2025 at 10:20 PM, Troy said: I’m not sure that’s true. It’s counterintuitive, Did you just conjure that up or have you studied the subjects sufficiently to make that statement. the albino, at least specifically skin color is not eye color, or shapes and fingers or similar. I admit, I do compose fastidiously at times, especially when I find myself repeating and I find this topic of race is a constant repeat of statements by all of us , over and over, which frustrates me. cause the reality is, when a group of people don't share the same definition for the basic elements of an issue then it is dysfunctional to talk on it. You and I and various other members of this online community don't share the same definition of race so any multilog on details of race between us is what exactly? It is inevitable opposition. And we are usually positive in tone in this forum but the point of these discussions is dead. If people talk about a murder case but they don't share the same definition of murder, then... On 3/26/2025 at 10:20 PM, Troy said: show me anything from a reputable source that supports that statement. Does ancestry or 23 and me provide your “race” in their DNA test? this goes back to my point online all the time, you ask for a reputable source, but didn't define a reputable source. Again, your statement suggest that you or i share the definition of reputable source or define two things similarly as a reputable source. you tell me the sources that you find reputable. this is why I am so verbose in here, when I say how i think i go into the definitions of my words. I define black, i define african i define this or that in my post for that exact reason so when a person reads they comprehend exactly what I think a certain thing is. so to answer your question. I can't. I have no way to prove in any way. The reason being cause I have no idea what you think is judged correctly. and I am not assuming what I think is reputable is the same to your own. On 3/26/2025 at 10:20 PM, Troy said: Here too, you make my point if it’s all based on genetics how can there be two different definitions of race based on the geography? Because race to me has infinite definitions . I have said many times in here, race is any form of classification. I repeatedly say in here, race based on phenotype, religion, gender, age, language, geography , genetics, ancestry or other. I didn't say all races are based on genetics. Christian is a race, it isn't based on genetics. But religious race is real. Provable for me through adherence to a religions rules. gender race is real, provable for me through genetics. Remember, the whole point of the trans community is that they say gender is not provable through genetics. they say it is proven through the soul of the individual. so again, race has infinite definitions but is always real. It is a natural thing all lifeforms use and can be used negatively or positively. And I don't have a problem with that truth. @ProfD On 3/27/2025 at 12:20 AM, ProfD said: Regardless, many Chinese people are just as if not more anti-Black than white folks. One thing I tend to say white asian in here, the term black is pehnotypical, but chinese is geographic. Chinese come in all sorts of phenotypes. White or Black are phenotypical designations or races. It is like when people say Blacks and JEws, these are two different racial types. Jew is a religious racial type, Black is phenotypical, they are not the same. a Black Jew looks like me, has a similar phenotype and "black jews" is a racial category with subraces: falashas from ethiopia/ the beta israelites who yell on corners on sunday/the late 1800s early 1900s black zionist jews, similar to the black muslims of the same period that became the nation of islam. my point being, be careful when using racial terms that don't have the same basis. When black DOSers, notice the use, not all descended of enslaved people are black... when Black DOSers say our enslaved forebears were american i say yes, but they weren't statian, a term i use representing the usa. Remember before the war between the states, most whites in the usa used the nomenclature from the state they were in, which is appropriate. New Yorker /Californian/Virginian/ et cetera . America is from canada to argentina. This is why I Call myself for example Black male stateless heterosexual nationalist - which equates to five races: phenotypical/gender/citizenry/fornicative/governance but to your point specifcially, most white asians in china/india or elsewhere don't treat black asians positively, so why other black people in the usa? @Pioneer1 On 3/27/2025 at 8:33 PM, Pioneer1 said: They actually shouldn't fall under ANY race, as they are race unto themselves. A combination of 2 separate races. Just like Purple is a color unto itself, a combination of 2 separate colors. that is a latin american heritage element, in anglo america , english speaking american continent, one drop rule is embedded in phenotypical labeling. I comprehend your pint but it isn't in the heritage in the usa. Now maybe with the growth of latin americans into the usa and the mixing of peoples, we are seeing the rise of that third option, the word brown i believe is used for the non white while also non black in the usa more and more. So jumping outside of things that should or shouldn't be which i don't think apply with race, the culture of modern usa has created a brown classification that opposes the black/white/indian trichotomy in the past with Black/Brown/White/Native American, I will argue that depending on how things go, Brown may become dominant over white or black
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