Wicked: More Racist Conditioning For A New Generation

[Pioneer1]

I'm not dealing with the movie itself, but it's advertisement because far more people will see THAT than will take time to even watch the movie.

It has the Black woman portraying a witch and the White girl (who's actually brunette in real life) with her hair dyed blonde and wearing a tiara representing goodness.

It's a damn shame so many people don't even see the obvious racist undertones of how this movies is being advertised...as the one before it....and the psychological damage it's doing to Black children.

Some of you are sitting up smiling right now wondering what the big deal is.      FOOL

How many times do we have to go in FUCKING CIRLCES over this????

The late great honorable Dr. Frances Cress Welsing has warned us about these racist images and how they are designed to program the minds of people to keep them conditioned to accept racism.

Let me make it plain and simple for the DUMB ASSES who are scratching their heads over what the problem is:

The subliminal message this film's advertisement sends is: Black people represent evil and White people represent goodness.

Back in the 60s or 70s during the Black Power and Black Love movements Hollywood wouldn't be able to pull anything like this off, too many Black folks would raise hell about it.
But today you have a generation of weed smoking clowns who don't think shit stinks until somebody throws it in their faces.
They don't think anything is wrong with the film and will even take their little girls to see it and munch on some popcorn.
And when these girls grow up emotionally mal-adjusted, dying their hair blonde, putting in blue contacts, and some even becoming suicidal because they think their Blackness is a curse.....these same clowns will be scratching their heads wondering what happened.

[ProfD]

Hollywood owns the content.

 

Black folks have to protest if we don't like the images of how we are being portrayed.

 

Black folks have to produce the content that shows the best of us.

 

We cannot expect non-Black folks to do right by us.

 

Cynthia Erivo is the Black British woman in the green make-up.

 

Black replacement is a whole nother conversation.

[Pioneer1]

Another thing I don't like is how their OFF SCREEN relationship is being portrayed and promoted through out the media.
 

 

 

Here you got a White woman looking like and dressing like a woman.
But the Black woman is bald headed, in tatoos, arms all muscular, and she's holding the White woman's hand as if she's escorting her.
Cynthia is clearly portraying a MAN'S ROLE in their relationship.
 

As if to say, the only way a Black woman and White woman can be friends and get along is if the White woman is allowed to be "the lady" in this relationship.
 

 

 

 

ProfD
 

Before protesting comes ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.
People aren't going to protest or boycott or even argue against something they don't even feel is wrong or offensive.
 

 

 

Black replacement is a whole nother conversation

True.
But it does tie in to this to the extent that I believe it PROBABLY be a little bit harder to find a Black American woman willing to portray a witch than a Black person from another country.

As much as I complain about how indifferent and clueless a lot of AfroAmericans are, the fact is when it comes to racism we still tend to be MORE WOKE to it compared to most other Black folks around the world....outside of maybe South Africa, lol.

There are some roles the average Black American simply won't play, so they have to get Black folks from elsewhere to play them.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Another thing I don't like is how their OFF SCREEN relationship is being portrayed and promoted through out the media.
 

 

 

Here you got a White woman looking like and dressing like a woman.
But the Black woman is bald headed, in tatoos, arms all muscular, and she's holding the White woman's hand as if she's escorting her.
Cynthia is clearly portraying a MAN'S ROLE in their relationship.

https://gomag.com/article/cynthia-erivo-defends-ariana-grande-from-fan-attack-and-then-lands-gqs-man-of-the-year-cover/

 

Well, Cynthia Erivo is among British GQ's Men of the Year.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Before protesting comes ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.
People aren't going to protest or boycott or even argue against something they don't even feel is wrong or offensive.

Black folks have been acknowledging the shade treatment for decades.

 

We can only stare at something up to a point before it's time to take action.

 

Black folks are probably too tired to protest or do anything about it.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

There are some roles the average Black American simply won't play, so they have to get Black folks from elsewhere to play them.

No problem. Hollywood is purposely looking for non-FBA/AfroAmerican people to play roles in movies and on TV. 

 

FBA and AfroAmericans are being replaced everywhere...on screens, jobs and voting booths. 

[Pioneer1]

36 minutes ago, ProfD said:

https://gomag.com/article/cynthia-erivo-defends-ariana-grande-from-fan-attack-and-then-lands-gqs-man-of-the-year-cover/

 

Well, Cynthia Erivo is among British GQ's Men of the Year.

 

I saw that!

It was first brought to my attention when my man Tariq Nasheed did a show about it and her and Ariana's weird ass relationship.
They are definitely pushing the "masculine black woman" image.

[Troy]

Are Cynthia and Ariana queer? That might explain the off screen “relationship.”  
 

As far as the movie poster, if you don’t know anything about the movie and haven’t seen it how can you comment about the poster?
 

I have not seen the movie, but I’ve seen the play and I’ve seem to remember the green witch being a sympathetic character and ultimately a positive one.

 

Yeah, I do think you’re making too much of the poster. For one the character is green with straight hair. So unless you’re going to bat for our green brother and sisters, I don’t understand what you’re complaining about.
 

This movie, the least of our worries. And Cynthia Evio is a net positive for the black community in my opinion.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

34 minutes ago, Troy said:

Are Cynthia and Ariana queer? That might explain the off screen “relationship.”  

I'm not sure about Cynthia, but Ariana is straight as far as I know.
Infact, she's reportedly in a relationship with of one the actors of the movie.

I haven't followed her much, but I remember a while back when she actually was into dating Black men.
Now she's been dating White men....lol.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

As far as the movie poster, if you don’t know anything about the movie and haven’t seen it how can you comment about the poster?

As I said initially, the poster is the first thing you see about the movie and it's the thing MOST people will see....even if they don't watch the actual movie itself.

All of this stuff about "watching the movie first" before drawing a conclusion is similar to "don't judge a book by it's cover".
It sounds good and it's quite logical, but it's not realistic.
People DO judge books by their covers whether they should or not, which is why so much detail is often put IN a book's covering and presentation.
And it's the same with movie trailers and posters.
That image alone often helps a parent decide whether or not they want to take their children to see that movie.

Cynthia's character may not be Black or Brown, but she still plays a woman "of color" and the fact that she's dressed up in all black through out the film only serves to REINFORCE the idea of blackness or people of color being equated with negativity and evil and whiteness being equated to goodness and purity.

Nothing in Hollywood is done by accident.
Every little detail is orchestrated to have a desired effect and influence.

Just like a teenager who complains about having to take out the garbage but the adults who own and run the house know why it needs to be taken out and what will happen if you DON'T take it out...on time.....

Maybe most Black people don't see the importance or consequences of promoting images like this....but the Whites who run Hollywood certainly do.
 

[Troy]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

People DO judge books by their covers whether they should or not, which is why so much detail is often put IN a book's covering and presentation.

Sure they do and they will naturally draw false conclusions about the book. 
 

This is exactly why they say don’t judge a book by its cover or judge people by the color of their skin. 
 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Cynthia's character may not be Black or Brown, but she still plays a woman "of color" and the fact that she's dressed up in all black through out the film

How do you know this? I thought you didn’t watch the film.

 

So even fictional, green characters are now lump in with Black people? What is the next pioneer saying that the Incredible Hulk just reinforces the black male brute stereotype?

 

I’ll grant you that the majority culture will promote their ideas of beauty; fair skin, blonde, hair, blue eyes, fine features, etc — even though most of them don’t look like that.

 

Obviously Black people, despite straightening their hair and dying it blonde and using cream lighters will never achieve that standard.

 

but suggesting that the producers of the movie, wicked crafted the green character simply to reinforce negative black stereotypes is an extreme leap to make based upon a movie poster of a film you purportedly have not seen.

 

[aka Contrarian]

What Troy just posted is on point.

 

And, the demograph for the "Wicked" franchise is not black people. Young black girls are not flocking to theaters to see this latest film fantasy.  Nor is there any great interest in it by the black population in general.To them, it's just another Disneyesque Hollywood  fantasy  like "Sleeping Beauty" or "Shrek". They ain't paying no money to go see it. 

 

Pioneer overestimates the gullibilty of black folks as well as the deviousness of Hollywood whose primary goal is profit; not promoting racism. Attributing racial overtones to this movie's subliminal message is a stretch saturated with paranoia. 

 

Cynthia and Ariana have admitted they have an affectionate, gender based,  non binary relationship. So what else is new? In today's social climate this is not an eyebrow raiser. Who cares if this is their "thing"?   Hollywood has always been a freak show.

 

But, as usual, the Strawman has to manufacture a hysterical scenario in an attempt  to substantiate his far-fetched argument characterizing some bald headed green skin character as a racist surrogate for a black person.

For the person with a hammer, every issue is a nail.

Much ado about nothing.

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy & Cynique

Why even go back-n-forth with you two?
You're just going to counter/oppose any point I make, anyway.

I can say: Ice melts when it's warm.

You two will come right behind me and say:
 

"Well that's YOUR experience....it's certainly not mine!
I don't know HOW you came to that conclusion.
In Alaska Eskimos can live and cook in igloos made of ice and they never melt, so you're wrong.
You need to get out more!"


  So why waste time?

[aka Contrarian]

@Pioneer1Then why did you waste time posting the silly comments that you just made?

Who cares whether or not you respond anyway?   zzzzzzz

 

[Pioneer1]

I say: 


"You know...
Hollywood has a history of putting out racist material and hiding it in subliminal messaging."

 

 

The response I get is:

"I don't know WHAT'choo talkin' bout!
The focus of Hollywood is to make money, not promote racism!
That sounds like some silly ass conspiracy theory talk, to me!
You jive ass nigga.
You need to stop making things up in your mind and get out more!"
 

[aka Contrarian]

You really got a thing for Idris  Elba, haven't you? He does kinda look like Cynthia what's-her-name  with hair and minus the green skin.

And  I should've "let sleeping dogs lie" and not given you an opening to go into the typical routine you were just waiting to spring. (Probably tossed and turned all night, unable to sleep,  trying to think  of a sneaky way to make your point. )

 I'm not impressed. How about you, Troy? Is this worth a good laugh, or what?

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Whether or not it's funny or impressive, the question is is it a fairly accurate assessment?
I would say....yes.

[aka Contrarian]

 

37 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Whether or not it's funny or impressive, the question is is it a fairly accurate assessment?
I would say....yes.

 

 

For once you agree that you are wrong,  and my assessment of your overreaction to a movie is a "fairly accurate" one?  Lol

 

 You mean  you have  finally realized that you are hyper sensitive about  "Wicked", considering that the first "Wicked" movie, was when  Cynthia was nominated for many  awards including an Oscar, and that she won several of them. She also won a Tony for her performance in the Broadway production of "Wicked".  I don't think she would agree with your take on the situation.  And your opinion doesn't really matter. You're just a malcontent. 

 

[Pioneer1]

I'm talking about my assessment of YOUR responses to my posts.

True to your new name, you go out of your way to "contrast/contradict" them and be contrary.....lol. 

[aka Contrarian]

 

Troy and I have different opinions about a lot of things, but we do seem to agree when it comes to you and your assumption that you are always right,  and the means that you resort to to try and prove this. 

And I don't go out of my way to agree with him. It has more to do with  him simply making more sense than you do. 

[Pioneer1]

33 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

And I don't go out of my way to agree with him. It has more to do him simply making more sense than you do. 

You may not go out of your way to agree with him, but you DO go out of your way to DISAGREE with me.
And have, since almost day one.

I can think of ONE TIME you actually agreed with me and actually backed me up on an issue.
It was a group discussion and I said something that was a little raw and honest about how some men view women or something like that and one of the female posters challenged me on the issue and you stepped in and told her:  "He's being honest....why is that a problem?"
....or something like that, I forgot your exact words.
At any rate, I don't remember any other time where you actually agreed with me on a subject.
You may have, but either I don't recall it or you didn't vocalize it.

And it SEEMS as if you've influenced Troy.....lol.
He used to agree with me on over 75% of my opinions or positions I took on an issue.

Now...

He'll be absent from the site and you won't hear from him for 6 or 7 months, then he'll pop back in and drop a couple posts JUST to disagree with something I said.

 

 

"No way!
Never heard of it!
How do you come to these conclusions???

I don't know WHERE you got that from!
Our experiences are way different!
Are you on drugs?"

 

 

Then after disagreeing with me,  he disappears again......


"Alright then, catch ya later"

 

Who says there is no Black unity?
You two are CERTAINLY united...when it comes to disagreeing with me....lol.

[aka Contrarian]

@Pioneer1So, what's the problem? What difference does it make if I disagree with you? Do you have a need to be validated?

I don't care whether others agree with me or not. And I don't think anybody else on this board does either. Your ego is showing

 

Nor does It help matters that you make up lies and try to give the impression that I have a thing for you and that you have me "wrapped around your little finger". Get outta here.

I have no reason to support your views or tolerate your lascivious attitude toward women and inflated braggadogio about black men. Puleeze. You personify all the things that to me are a turn-off especially at this stage of my life when I am cynical about men in general. 

 

[Pioneer1]

Honestly, the issue is if people  LINE UP to disagree with me.
And refuse to acknowledge when I'm correct.

That's offensive, IMO.

 

 

 

Cynique
 

Quote

I don't care whether others agree with me or not. And I don't think anybody else on this board does either. 

That's not true.
People post their opinions and make statements on message boards and on social media FOR other people to see.
If they didn't care....they wouldn't post them.

Again, you make it a point to purposely oppose my views for no other reason except spite and contempt.
That's clear to anybody who has observed this forum for any measure of time.
 

[aka Contrarian]

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Honestly, the issue is if people  LINE UP to disagree with me.
And refuse to acknowledge when I'm correct.

That's offensive, IMO.

 

Well, maybe you take yourself too seriously and your expectations are too high. Your being the control freak who likes to imagine  and choreograph situations sets you up for the frustration you experience over not being taken seriously. Poooor baby. 

 

I suspect what you complain about can be attributed to how, away from this board, in your home base, you  are surrounded by people who are quite different from the real world of this forum. tsk-tsk.

btw, have ever conclusively proven yourself to be correct about say, -  race being a social construct, or black men having bigger penises than males of other ethnicities?  

I can't speak for Troy, but as far as I'm concerned, I find it easy to disagree with a very opinionated someone who lacks objectivity when it comes to the negroid  species and is, in fact, a black supremist. My first loyalty is to the truth.

 

 

[aka Contrarian]

@Pioneer1I see you expanded your comments on your original post, or - I didn't see your "after thoughts"  the first time around, and I must say that your attempt to play the victim, and your indignation over my not agreeing with your every utterance and your accusations about my being spiteful, strike me as pent-up grievances that stem from a bruised ego - and a short memory...I'm really curious as to why you think I have an obligation to pay homage to you. How you expect from me what you never extended to me. The only difference between the way I treated you and the way you treated me is that I m not inclined to sit around and sulk about your antagonistic behavior. (I'm not thin-skinned like you.)

And I might add that half the stuff you post I don't even read, so being ignored would also seem to be a factor in your resentment. Man up, you big wuss.

 

Bottom line, your heightened sense of entitlement apparently prevents you from not being able to take what you dish out.    

                     

[Pioneer1]

Cynique

 

Well, maybe you take yourself too seriously and your expectations are too high. Your being the control freak who likes to imagine and choreograph situations sets you up for the frustration you experience over not being taken seriously. Poooor baby.

 

Imaginations and expectations not withstanding, I'm not prone to delusions...lol.
I'm not paranoid when I say that you go out of your way to NOT agree with me on virtually anything and everything.

Infact, you don't even HAVE an opinion on most things...until I have one first.....so you can take the opposite side, lol.
 

You almost admit to your bias with statements like:
 I find it easy to disagree with a very opionated someone who lacks objectivity when it comes to the negroid species and is, in fact, a black supremist.

Black Supremacist.......
Ask ProfD or richardmurray am I a "Black Supremist".....lol.

 

 

 

I suspect what you complain about can be attributed to how, away from this board, in your home base, you are surrounded by people who are quite different from the real world of this forum. tsk-tsk.

Not really.
There are people in my neighborhood and at work and other social circles who disagree with me from time to time and then there are a few who just don't like me for one reason or another and we pretty much keep our distances from eachother.
The difference between THERE and HERE is that in real life I don't have someone like you who goes out of their way to disagree with or oppose me.
The people who don't like me in real life act more like Delano....lol.
If they don't like me, they simply avoid me.
If they see me in disagreement with somebody who DOES like me or somebody who is fairly neutral about me one way or the other....they stay out of it.
Unlike YOU...who love to chime in and pile on and signify.
 

 

 

 

btw, have ever conclusively proven yourself to be correct about say, - race being a social construct, or black men having bigger penises than males of other ethnicities?

 

This is another example of what I'm talking about.
This type of GAS LIGHTING.

For you and Troy to sit there and pretend as if those two positions are so outlandish and ridiculous when both are well known and fully accepted positions by most AfroAmericans is further evidence of how you'll go out of your way just to oppose any position I take.

 

 

 

I see you expanded your comments on your original post

I see you're anxiously keeping up with and awaiting my responses...lol.

[aka Contrarian]

"anxiously awaiting your responses"??  It was several hours before I came back to your post after attending to the more interesting things I had to do.

Just another example of how you distort  and how  totally oblivious you are to your own  deviousness, and how you put your own spin on everything.

 

In any case, you have gotten everything off your chest, not surpringly  portraying yourself as the "hero" and others as the villains, taking no responsibility for the part you play in invoking the the response you get from Troy and me.  Do you ever give any thought to the very valid challenges Troy presents to your opinions. Do you ever consider that you might be wrong about some things? No. You think you are omniscient. And you will resort to all kind tactics to substantiate your invalid points. In reality, your complaints about us are no more legitimate than ours are about you and your "I'm the smartest guy in the room" attitude .

 

And, incidentally,  you have also conveniently forgotten how you and Mzuri double teamed  me back when she was posting, and posing as my friend. 

 

Whatever. It's obvious we have no common ground nor am I motivated  to accomodate your need to be agreed with. 

So be it.

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1 and @aka Contrarian...whether you all ever agree or not, the back and forth dialog between you two is worth the price of admission. I certainly enjoy reading it.

 

Your contributions keep the forum going especially since fewer folks post compared to a few years ago.