MLK jr day is on the 19th in 2026

[ProfD]

5 minutes ago, Delano said:

Thanks @ProfD I'm having a midnight snack. Today is Australia Day. It's like the Fourth of July. Except Aboriginal call it Invasion Day.. There's a big Aboriginal festival across the street. Will check out our this year.

Enjoy my brotha.

 

Here in the USA over 140 million people are enduring a snow storm.

[Pioneer1]

Is death truly a form of "freedom" for the atheist or agnostic?

If one doesn't believe in the existence of consciousness after a physical death, they wouldn't be around to enjoy no longer being restricted or oppressed.

After a stressful or hectic day, one often enjoys a good nights sleep or a deep sleep because of the relaxed feeling of well being that you feel in the morning.
But if there is no morning after that sleep................

[ProfD]

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Is death truly a form of "freedom" for the atheist or agnostic?

Absolutely. Death is freedom from all forms of pain &/or suffering. 

 

Regardless of state of being, that person is no longer restricted or oppressed; in pain &/or suffering. 

 

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If one doesn't believe in the existence of consciousness after a physical death, they wouldn't be around to enjoy no longer being restricted or oppressed.

After a stressful or hectic day, one often enjoys a good nights sleep or a deep sleep because of the relaxed feeling of well being that you feel in the morning.
But 

Reads like your idea of freedom comes with some type of enjoyment.

 

The lure of enjoyment which is temporary freedom is exactly how people remain restricted &/or oppressed. That's why most people are afraid to die. 

 

To truly be free is unbound by any chains literal or figurative. Death removes them.

[Delano]

4 minutes ago, ProfD said:

To truly be free is unbound by any chains literal or figurative. Death removes them

That's tight, no wiggle room.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

Absolutely. Death is freedom from all forms of pain &/or suffering. 
Regardless of state of being, that person is no longer restricted or oppressed; in pain &/or suffering. 
 

But once one actually dies....if according to the atheist/agnostic there is no consciousness after death...how would they enjoy or even know that the pain and suffering has ended?

They don't know anything.
They don't even know that they are dead.

Would the last thing they remember is the pain and suffering before....lights out?



 

Reads like your idea of freedom comes with some type of enjoyment.
 

Well, isn't that ONE of the purposes of freedom?
To enjoy oneself or find pleasure?
What would be the benefit of being free if there is no pleasure or enjoyment to it?

 

 

The lure of enjoyment which is temporary freedom is exactly how people remain restricted &/or oppressed. That's why most people are afraid to die. 

You have to admit that there is SOME logic to this belief system.
Why should some people seek "freedom" if that particular freedom would bring more pain, suffering, confusion, or discomfort than the restricted conditions they are living under where they do experience some joys and pleasures?

The slave didn't want to kill massa, burn down the big house, and run out into the woods to escape slavery.....only to starve to death or die of exposure IN those woods.


 

To truly be free is unbound by any chains literal or figurative.
 

Correct

Death removes them
 

Perhaps.

Speaking as a Metaphysical Theist, I believe that even after physical death in this dimension you move to other dimensions where there are still restrictions to a certain extent.
Not as many as in this One, but they do exist.

[ProfD]

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

But once one actually dies....if according to the atheist/agnostic there is no consciousness after death...how would they enjoy or even know that the pain and suffering has ended?

They don't know anything.
They don't even know that they are dead.

Right. Everything about this existence stops. No more chains.

 

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well, isn't that ONE of the purposes of freedom?

To enjoy oneself or find pleasure?
What would be the benefit of being free if there is no pleasure or enjoyment to it?

Many people find enjoyment &/or pleasure in doing absolutely nothing. Death provides it.

 

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Why should some people seek "freedom" if that particular freedom would bring more pain, suffering, confusion, or discomfort than the restricted conditions they are living under where they do experience some joys and pleasures?

They don't really want to be free. Like a drug addict, they just want to get high. There's a difference. 

 

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

The slave didn't want to kill massa, burn down the big house, and run out into the woods to escape slavery.....only to starve to death or die of exposure IN those woods.

The temporary enjoyment allowed by the slave master was good enough for him.

 

Again, most people are afraid to die for several reasons. Freedom isn't one of them.

 

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Perhaps.

Speaking as a Metaphysical Theist, I believe that even after physical death in this dimension you move to other dimensions where there are still restrictions to a certain extent.
Not as many as in this One, but they do exist.

Yet, there's no way of proving &/or knowing alternative dimensions or realities exist other than one's own mind.

 

Freedom, enjoyment and pleasure are not synonymous or inextricably linked.

 

For examples, humans find enjoyment & pleasure in s8x but procreating can nullify their freedom. People enjoy getting high until a terrible accident gets them locked up behind bars or worse.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

Right. Everything about this existence stops. No more chains.

 

No, but the chains are replaced by worms wiggling around on your wrists....lol.

 

 

 

 

 

Many people find enjoyment &/or pleasure in doing absolutely nothing. Death provides it.

 

But according to the atheist/agnostic view point...they CAN'T find enjoyment or pleasure in death because they aren't conscious.

 

 

 

 

They don't really want to be free. Like a drug addict, they just want to get high. There's a difference. 

 

Well.....
I think what most people want is PEACE and HAPPINESS.

Now if freedom will bring you that, then like Cinqe said in Amistad: 

 

 
            "GIVE ME FREE"

 

 

But if you're in bondage and being fed, clothed, and housed in relatively comfortable conditions and being "freed" means all of that would be removed and you'll be tossed out into the harsh cold winter with no master and no shelter either.........then many would argue that bondage is probably better.


 

Yet, there's no way of proving &/or knowing alternative dimensions or realities exist other than one's own mind.
 

There is plenty of proof.
Has been for decades if not centuries.
It's been proven beyond any doubt that Realities exist after physical death and beyond this one.

Whether one chooses to accept it or not, is another story....lol.

 

Freedom, enjoyment and pleasure are not synonymous or inextricably linked.
 

Correct.


 

 

For examples, humans find enjoyment & pleasure in s8x but procreating can nullify their freedom. People enjoy getting high until a terrible accident gets them locked up behind bars or worse.
 

So you see the point I'm making of why freedom in and of itself isn't necessarily the ultimate goal for most people.