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harry brown

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What "more" do Black people need to know?


Black people have been in this nation since it's inception, where are the Black or predominately Black hospitals and medical schools today?

We had them in the past, before integration.

Before Black folks got too lazy to do anything for themselves.

If you look at Black America a hundred years ago you see pictures of Black doctors and rows upon rows of Black nurses caring for their community.

Black farmers who grew REAL food that actually nourished our people.

Black scientists like George Washington Carver.

I'm talking about REAL Black scientists who worked for themselves and did their OWN research and experiments.......

Not these chicken-livered negroes with worthless degrees and white coats on who act as mere flunkies to clean up the petri-dishes and mop up the damn laboratory floors AFTER the White scientists go home for the night.

Not only does Black America have an HIV problem, but if you notice more and more Black females have become lesbian of the BUTCH type with big husky hairy shoulders, flat butts, and a truly masculine demeanor!

All these weird disease our people used to never get.

Women turning into men.

Black youth are increasing victims and subjects of chemical experimentation.

That's what happens when you:

1. No longer believe in a Supreme Being and lose your morality.

2. Become so lazy and complacent you lose the desire to do anything for yourself.


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I don't want to feed into your conspiracy theories Pioneer but maybe this will explain the physical mutation you describe and the violence we see in the inner city :o



He does not vote

He is a Jehovah's Witness

He wants to fill in the blanks of the whole story.
Wants to smack someone for not telling him there were 8 presidents before George Washington
Good thing he is a musical genius

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Lol, this is a side of Prince I haven't seen before.

I just might become a fan of his if he keeps talking like that.

Did Farrakhan have a few words with him or something....lol.

I'm not exactly sure of the Dick Gregory comments he's referring to, I'll wait until you post them and I'm actually half-way looking for them among other things while I'm online right now.

But I do remember during a State of Black America presentation some years ago right before Obama was elected....either '07 or '08 when Gregory was talking about the chemicals they were dumping in Black neighborhoods that were causing Black people to become violent.

He mentioned one chemical in particular that he said would make a man mad enough to kill his own mother.


Not sure about the conspiracy, by nature they're hard to prove. 

But I know what I see.

You're a little older than me so unless you've been tucked up under a rock for 30 years I'm sure you've SEEN it too...whether or not you've chosen to take notice......lol.

Regardless of our differing views on homosexuality, I'm sure you can agree with me that the younger women seem to physically be more masculine today than 30 years ago.

We can argue all day over whether there were just as many lesbians back then but were hiding in the closet, but the PHYSICAL appearance of so many of our young sisters is hard to deny.....it's open.

Look at the very large husky broad shoulder young girls in highschool today.

Those growing facial hair...mustaches and light beards.

You may have seen SOME 30 years ago, but you see a lot more today!!!


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Dick Gregory is my man, but sometimes the things he says sounds nuts (I thought the video I posted included the clip with Dick from the state of the union). Then you have someone like Prince,  though musically gifted, does not strike me a very intelligent man, spreading this information as if it was fact.  It is scary.  


Of course Tavis just sat their unwilling to challenge Prince on anything coming out his mouth.  Tavis even phrased the voting question as if his viewers would demand he asked it.  Personally I could care less if Prince votes.  It is Tavis who is always exclaiming how our ancestors sacrificed and died to give us the privilege to vote and if you don't vote you are spitting on their graves.


The US Government is so wicked at times there is nothing most people will not put past her.  So the prospect of spraying chemicals in the air which target only Black people, making then homicidal maniacs is completely plausible to many.


The clouds coming from the airplanes are called contrails and, like clouds, are mostly water.  You can see them today.  The only really controversial thing about them is their potential  impact on the weather or the environment.


Here is the video Prince was referencing:


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Because so many fans regarded Prince as awesome, he started to believe the hype and now appears to think of himself as some kind of a guru.  To me, he's just a goof ball  and Dick Gregory a blow hard,


Conspiracy buffs get on my nerves because their whole attitude is one of being too smart to be fooled.  They smugly think they are part of a chosen few who are privy to information that other people aren't in on. A bunch of paranoid crack pots  who always want to overwhelm you with a swill of half-truths.


And speaking of paranoid crack pots, Pioqueer needs to get a life.  Wonder has he considered that the repulsive persona that repels women could be stirring his appetite for men.  :o

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That's it.

That's the clip I was speaking of.

Yeah he seemed a bit dithering, but we can't get hung up on his presentation but the man is a 70 something year old comedian.  LIke Bill Cosby.....even when he's being serious he looks funny because cutting up is part of his personality. 

AfroAmericans are an emotional people, they like a little humor and theatrics in the delivery to drive the message home.  The question you should ask whether it's Dick or Prince is, is there some validity to what they're saying?

Clearly something foul is going on in Black neighborhoods all over the United States.

Why do AfroAmericans lead the statistics in so many diseases and crimes?

Why are our girls fighting eachother so much in the schools and on the streets?

Girls balling up their fists and fighting like men isn't natural.


Ofcourse when you make a claim, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it.

But whether it's politicians, preachers, potential clients, or even telemarketers......

I've learned to disregard the delivery and focus on the substance of what people are saying to determine whether the information they're giving me is true or false because everyone isn't blessed with the gift of articulation.



Conspiracy buffs get on my nerves because their whole attitude is one of being too smart to be fooled.



Either that.....

Or they no longer fear to plainly say what others may believe in their hearts but are afraid to utter.


And speaking of paranoid crack pots, Pioqueer needs to get a life. Wonder has he considered that the repulsive persona that repels women could be stirring his appetite for men



So....you're making fun of homosexuals and calling them "queer" now ???

It's funny how the same people who fight like hell to defend homosexuality will turn right around and use it as an insult in the same breath.

...and fail to see the hypocrisy.

I would expect nothing less from one so morally confused and bankrupt.

I know you're fond of making up your own definitions so I don't know how YOU define "repulsive" in that schizoid mind of yours, but my now disbanned organization was once over 70% female and routinely had more women members than men.

And ALL of those women (including some lesbians) knew EXACTLY how I felt about homosexuality, the role of women in the family, and the role of women in society at large.

But REAL women would rather dwell in the presence of a REAL man with conviction and principles rather than waste time with a flip-flopping emasculated gigilo willing to tell them whatever they want to hear.



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Homosexuals do not consider the term "queer" a derogatory one.  Many - mostly white  -  refer to themselves as that, and there is even a gay activist group that calls itself  the "queer nation".


I don't even have to check the definition of the word repulsive because it obviously means to repel something.  And you spelled "giggolo" wrong.  It's also obvious that you try and console yourself by advancing a rationale implicit in the idea that attractive dynamic men don't usually have substance or worthwhile goals. That's typical of the narrow little world view you have restricted your vision to, lest you have to confront the truth about yourself.  You are so transparent.  If I were to ask myself why I am always so at odds with you, it would be that, with you, the only right way is your way.  This is what brittleness is made of. Look up that word. 


If conspiracists voice what others are thinking, they have converted them to their side.  Those who resist their ravings, continue to be dismissed, - ineligible to become a part of the chosen few who are "too smart" to be fooled. 


For 50 years, conspiracists have been trying to prove that JFK's assassination was not the lone random act of a malcontent.  They've never been able to successfully dismantle the counter arguments.  But they cling to their belief because they cannot absorb the idea that this monumental act was just  a quirk of fate rather than a sinister plot with origins in high places. The latter feeds into the avid romantic imaginations that fuel those who think secret forces are trying to hood wink them. Ironically situations that could be deemed conspiracies are usually not officially organized by an evil cabal of men.  They simply evolve from the silent consent of various parties with vested interests and common goals .    

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Pioneer, no I don't believe the government is spraying chemicals in the air to make Negroes more violent;  One, there is no way to just target Black people and; (2) because how do they control who the Black violence is directed against.


Man this is too far fetched to even argue seriously, especially when there are so many easier ways for white people to annihilate Black people.


But you should also consider something else: Do you know, for example, that there are more white people who die from suicide than there are Black people who commit murder?


White people are suffering a suicide epidemic, but outside of the outrageously high levels in the military you don't hear anything about it. 


Black people do not corner the market on dysfunction the media just talks about our ills more.  This of course reinforces it in the psyche of the culture as well as our own minds.


Similarly you never read about "white-on-white" murder, but the media loves to talk about Black people killing other Blacks.  Of course everyone knows people tend to kill people in their own groups, but you will rarely hear it presented that way in the mainstream press.

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There's a whole community out there of young mothers who think vaccines administered to babies are what's causing the high incidence of autism, and they are opting out of having their kids immunized.  But this is a double-edged sword because these vaccines keep children from getting dangerous diseases like measles, typhoid fever, whooping cough and diptheria, not to mention polio and small pox. So it's a no-win situation because there are also reports that these sicknesses are making a comeback. 


 Another argument being made is that autism has always been around but wasn't  diagnosed, because in the past, children suffering  with it and other behavior problems like hyperactivity, bipolar disorder, and ADD were all relegated to  the  "retarded" or "mentally  unbalanced"  category. 


The high incidence of asthma among urban blacks has been attributed to the environment.  One patient recently being interviewed on TV said she suffered with the alllergy  because it was too dangerous to go outside to escape the dust and mold of her stuffy apartment.


Another thing going under reported is the heroin epidemic among white  teenagers, Troy.  One of the expressways leading into Chicago from the burbs has been nicknamed the "heroin highway" because it's the route taken by all these kids driving into the city to purchase this cheap but potent drug.   


Bill Mahr had as his guest last week end, Dr. Carl Hart, this black professor who just wrote this book debunking the myths about drug use.  He claims not all people who use drugs become addicted, that they can stop taking them any time, but continue to be users because they are bored with their dead-end lives. ???? He claims, contrary to popular belief, crack does not addict you after one hit.   He reached these conclusions after extensive research.....

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Pioneer, no I don't believe the government is spraying chemicals in the air to make Negroes more violent; One, there is no way to just target Black people and; (2) because how do they control who the Black violence is directed against.
Man this is too far fetched to even argue seriously, especially when there are so many easier ways for white people to annihilate Black people.


Who said anything about "the government" dispersing the chemicals?
Even during slavery, the most vile forms of racism in this nation's history has been committed by individuals and private firms....not the government itself.

I believe there are racists working IN government as well as private individuals who have a vested interest in weakening and destroying the Black community through various methods at their disposal.

Look at how so many Republicans openly oppose healthcare and the defunding of schools.
Those aren't mere conspiracy theories, they are openly advocating policies leading to population control and reduction.




But you should also consider something else: Do you know, for example, that there are more white people who die from suicide than there are Black people who commit murder?
White people are suffering a suicide epidemic, but outside of the outrageously high levels in the military you don't hear anything about it.


While I don't doubt that White people are suffering from a suicide epidemic, keep in mind that suicide takes place in many forms.

While one man may seek to end his life with a shotgun in his mouth....
Another may choose to drink himself into a coma every night hoping one morning he just doesn't wake up.
Yet another young man stuck in the ghetto with no income, no respect, and no love may choose to engage in SELF-destructive (destroying oneself sounds suicidal) behavior subconsciously hoping for death as a way out of his intolerable conditions.

You may not believe in conspiracies but there are a lot of educated Whites who do.
Infact, WHOLE FOODS is a supermarket founded on providing organic food free of chemicals and pesticides that these young educated Whites feel are harmful to them and their children and have opted to go organic.

I know many Whites....educated professional young Whites....who don't even own a television and won't keep one in thier home.

I think it's a shame most of our people don't seem to believe anything until a WHITE PERSON OF AUTHORITY officially states it.

Perhaps you should ask yourself......
If there wasn't so much historical documentation on the Tuskeegee Experiments of Black men being given syphilis in Alabama....would you deny that too?


It could be the growth hormones in the food, that's causing girls to develops early.


Girls developing early is among the LEAST of the problems.
Girls turning into MEN is right near the top these days, lol.

Girls with tough hard hand that feel like claws when they give you your change back at the store...
Girls with aggressive attitudes who are quick to fight and put it on youtube....
Girls with tatoos on their necks.....


Pioneer all change starts with you, or me. If you see something wrong, you can fix it. In organization every has lots if ideas but a few do the work. Which do you want to be.


The first step to solving any problem is first AKNOWLEDGING that a problem exists.

If you don't see men being gay and acting like women, or women turning lesbian and acting like men as even a problem......then you won't seek to do anything about it.

I see it as a problem, but too many of our people don't anymore.

When your standards and morals have been eroded, it's easy to put anything over on you.


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Pioneer, I'm not saying that some white folks or the government are incapable of perpetrating some horrific shit.  I'm just saying I don't believe the tale about spraying chemicals in the 'hood to make us more violent.  Defunding schools and locking Negroes up has been very effective for our generation.


The Tuskegee "Experiments" are a documented fact.  I do not dispute it.  In fact, I hold it up as a rational justification for Black people not to trust the government, at all, with anything.


Who trusts anyone that would enslave you for 400 years, then implement a permanent Jim Crow.  People talk about a "new" Jim Crow, I don't recall the old one ever ending.... really.


It is no surprise that whooping cough, measles, mumps, and small pox are making a come back.  Again I completely understand why people would opt out of the vaccinations.  But I'm taking them and I vaccinated my kids too. 


I do think Del has a point.  Anecdotally women just used to be smaller when I was a kid.  A 200 pound girl in high school was exceedingly rare when I was young, now it not pretty common.  SO common in far you have people celebrating it.  We used to call them "fat", today they are "thick", and it is a complement...  I think the crap introduced into the food supply is to blame.


I saw a commercial the other day for diabetes medication.  The commercial, features a middle age Black woman in a lovely home, surrounded by a loving family, who is now able to take her diabetes medication with her on vacation without having to worry about syringes and spoilage.


This is a great thing if you are diabetic, but the feeling was that diabetes is so common place as to be expected by middle aged Black women as the grow older and inevitably gain weight -- just a normal part of life.  Meanwhile pharmaceutical companies grow fat off our chronic illnesses, which are more lucrative than prevention or cure.


No I'm not a big time conspiracy theorist  guy, 'cause what people do in the light of day is f-cked up as it is...

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Del people tend to hate themselves more than anyone else.  The suicide rate in the US is twice the murder rate.  When you consider that the Black murder rate are really Brothers engaging in suicidal behavior the number are much more stark.


The obesity rates fro US Black women grows every year.  If memory service in places like DC, the Black female obesity rates exceed 40%.


Cynique I saw Cark Hart on Bill's program when it originally broadcast.  The fact most people do not get hooked on drugs comes as no revelation to me.  But it is mildly interesting to know there is data to support my observations and personal experience :o


At any rate, I really could not get past that head of hair of his.  Is he Rastafarian?  I can not image anyone want to deal with all of that hair for purely stylistic reasons.   


We published a review of his book



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Lol, you're disputing me while supporting my point at the same time.

It's like that scene in Saving Private Ryan:

"Are you Private James Francis Ryan?"
"No, no, no.....I'm James FRANCIS Ryan!!"

You're arguing against conspiracies and people spraying chemicals in the hood to affect Black people, yet at the same time agreeing that our youth are more obese and that chemicals in the environment (of which the food supply is just one branch) are probably to blame.

Who in the hell is PUTTING the chemicals in the food?
They aren't getting in there by themselves.

And for what reason?

Every effect has a cause.
Every action has a motive.

When I go into the city of Detroit around 3 pm I see thousands of fat Black school kids standing around and leaning on telephone poles and mail boxes as they wait on the bus (the citybus, because there are no more schools busses for them) to take them home from school. In many cases you can't even tell the boys from the girls.  A lot of the boys have breasts.

If you drive 2 miles outside the city into the suburbs you'll  see skinny White kids....
The boys with their shirts off and the girls in short-shorts, jogging and skipping along, getting in shape with the exercise programs offered by their schools.

This can be seen in many other urban/suburban areas across the country.

In one or 2 urban areas could be a coincidence, but when you find the same scenes being played out all over the nation....this means it's orchestrated.

In Chicago they're closing damn near half the schools in Black neighborhoods.




I think much of the "hatred" among Black men comes from the pain of not having a father in the home while growing up.
I was blessed to have a good father who took care of me, most of the Black boys I grew up with didn't and many were angry and upset about it and told me later as we became adults how jealous and resentful they were at not having someone to teach and protect them as young boys coming up.

Often times when a Black man sees another Black man, he subconciously sees the father who abandoned him.


 I haven't seen black teenage girls in a decade have you noticed the changes before then.   



Lol, I'm not sure where you live where you're not seeing Black teenage girls.
I've been all over America and Black youth are everywhere.
Even in Montana, lol.

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Before I moved in with my daughter in the adjoining town, the house where I previously lived was right in the path of the daily afternoon  exodus of kids from the nearby high school, which was about 75 percent Black and 25 Hispanic.  Whenever I sat on my porch and watched this homeward bound, rag-tag parade of scruffy, loud, unruly  students, my impression was that these kids came in all shapes and sizes.  Just as many were tall and skinny as average.  Only a few were actually obese.  The basketball team which is the main source of pride for this school is, of course, made up of lean, lanky giants.   



A true conspiracy was exposed when the tobacco companies were outed for increasing the nicotine content in cigarettes in order to addict smokers, a large number of which are concentrated in the black urban areas.  There were also claims of there being an overload of billboards glamorizing alcohol consumption in the inner cities.  Maybe there is, indeed,  a plan afoot to gradually put these poor denizens of the ghetto out of their misery by making hazards to their health habitual.


But weight-conscious young white kids, girls in particular, also pay for their obsession with being thin. They either become the victims of eating disorders or the objects of ridicule and bullying  for not fitting the desired image. White teen-agers are also more into recreational drugs than their black peer group.


America is so screwed up on so many levels.  Rome wasn't built in a day, or did it fall in a day. The decline was gradual, appearing right before the eyes of its citizens who had become so inured in the decadence that they didn't realize the empire was on a collision course with ruination.


In the political arena, the crazed Republicans, aided and abetted by the dazed Democrats, are leading the nation down the path to doom.  The "United" States will become a misnomer, and America, rutted  by the schism of race, will implode.


I'm weary. I don't really care if these predictions come true or not...

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Pioneer - When I was in New York City. I worked 9-5 and didn't take mass transit often. I can't recall if have even seen kids playing outside. So I don't see any kids. Or if I do it's rarely in a group.

Its not a conspiracy its about money. The hormones are in the food supply. Black people ate targets because they are easy consumers. I don't know about the rest if the country. But in New York you very rarely see black businesses in black neighborhoods.

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"... I see thousands of fat Black school kids standing around and leaning on telephone poles and mail boxes..."  LOL I just visualized this and it made me laugh out loud.  Then I read Cynique's. "...homeward bound, rag-tag parade of scruffy, loud, unruly..." and I see a herd of Cosby Kids making their way down the street an laughed again.


I'm sure anyone reading this would wonder if we even like teenagers  :o


Del I live in the neighborhood I was raised in and I can tell you that kids absolutely do not play outside as much as we did.  Besides basketball and touch football we played every imaginable variation of tag you can think of.  The girls would jump double-dutch for hours on end.  I don't recall the last time I saw kids playing tag or girls jumping double dutch...  I don't even see kids play outside any more. 


I'm sure there is data to support the fact kids are getting bigger.  I don't have time to look it up right now.


Recently however the charter schools seem to run kids more during recess it is fun to watch a bunch of little kids running around it seems like an entirely stochastic process -- like the balls bouncing in the lotto machine before being drawn.


Pioneer while we may observer similar things I think the only dispute is our explanations for them and the motivation behind them.


Companies are motivated by money.  Period.  Any perceived good is performed because there is revenue behind it. The faster and easier the better.  As a result corporations will always pick a large short term gain over a small longer term one -- even if society, the planet is better off. 


This is why we will continue to burn fossil fuels until we run out or the ozone layer is depleted to the point where our world can not longer support life -- then some genius will get rich selling oxygen masks.  And Negroes will be losing homes because they can't afford to pay for air.

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I think as a society where are having less physical interactions. We don't talk to shop keepers because we buy online. We can even find a partner online. The company I work at does home loans. We never meet the customers except the brokers. All interaction is done over the phone or over the net.

From a business standpoint it's more profitable to be online. However the social cost and the funds mot being re circulated in the community will have a ling term effect. Which we will see in the upcoming years

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Its not a conspiracy its about money.


Just because it's financially motivated, doesn't mean it's not a conspiracy.
People can conspire for monetary purposes as well.

Look at the credit/mortgage defaults that caused the financial crisis of 2008.
There was a conspiracy among lenders to provide home loans to people they KNEW couldn't pay them back so they could take their money and still reclaim the houses after forclosure.



The hormones are in the food supply. Black people ate targets because they are easy consumers. I don't know about the rest if the country. But in New York you very rarely see black businesses in black neighborhoods.


It's pretty much the same in AfroAmerican neighborhoods across America.

I've been all over the continental United States and I have yet to see an "ideal" AfroAmerican community where most things are operating as they should.
I've seen vibrant African communities where Africans own most of the businesses, most of their housing, and the streets are safe....but few if any AfroAmerican communities like that.

I haven't spent much time on the East Coast but I know in parts of Chicago, Detroit, and Atlanta there still Black neighborhoods where most of the folks own their own homes and have good jobs....but most of the businesses are still owned by other races.


I attribute this to the fact that more so than women of other races like Asians, Arabs, and even White women....Black women have to work and don't have time to cook healthy meals for their children so more Black kids tend to eat out and eat fast foods.


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Pioneer some of the issues you raise about black people are human issues. Banks generally prefer to lend money than to own homes. Simply be wise it is more profitable.

I'm the 90's. There was insider trading most of the individuals caught were Jewish men. We will have full equality. When the crime us committed by single Black women.

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Pioneer the loans were immediately sold after they were made.  The were sliced and diced and used to create securities which were then resold.  Determining what the underlying homes were was very difficult.


I've been all over the continental United States and I have yet to see an "ideal" AfroAmerican community where most things are operating as they should.


Pioneer I don't think the community you are referring to exists.  One could, and it has in the past, but I doubt there is one in the US of A. 

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Del and Troy

Perhaps it's a bit of both racism AND opportunism

It's sad to say but I think that as with many things today, they KNOW there are a lot of Black people of low intelligence (I'm not talking just academic sense but actually intelligence/brain power) and they target them.

I don't know how else to make sense of it.

I don't have a college education nor am I a lawyer or mortage expert, yet STILL I knew better than to sign an "adjustable rate" mortage when one was offered to me.

How could anyone with a measure of intelligence sign ANY contract where the lender has the right to change the rate of payment anytime they like?

That's down right stupid.

Yet there were friends and family members who did and sat right up in my living room laughing at me because I wouldn't go along with it.

I still remember the gold teeth shining as they grinned at me for not taking advantage of the "opportunity".

Now some of them are living in the basement of a friend's house....others I can't even find.

At some point, I'm going to have to come to the conclusion that........oh never mind.


Pioneer I don't think the community you are referring to exists. One could, and it has in the past, but I doubt there is one in the US of A.


I was going to mention that there were communities like this in the past.

Specifically in that 100 year time period after Reconstruction but before Integration.

This was a time where Black people knew and saw CLEAR racism and knew they had to take up responsibility for themselves and make something happen.

There was a time not too long ago when Black men felt the urge to maintain complete control over their neighborhoods.

I remember my father helping to organize a neighborhood watch after some break-ins.

But it seems that Integration did something to our people.

Whenever I get Chinese food I marvel at how hard working and industrious the Chinese are.

Often times it's only 1 man cooking the food and his wife serving it and taking the payments...and both are middle aged!!!!

Yet you got this middle aged woman who doesn't weigh more than maybe 95 pounds working from 10 am to 10 pm carrying plates back and forth and still manages to keep a smile on her face and has no "smell" to her as she walks past you (...lol).

Every 5 seconds the register is ringing and dinging as money is exchanged.

The other day I went to the bank and I saw a young Asian dude carrying a DUFFLE BAG full of money to the teller door.

I have to shake my head in amazement.

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Oooh, break out the violins to accompany this maudlin yearning for the times when isolated examples of independent black enclaves bustling with commerce existed.  These were hardly  the idyllic good ol days as the dire fate of Rosewood testifies to.  


In this century, African Americans have been relegated to the consumer ranks because they obviously don't have the wherewithal to be manufacturers. It's further significant that most of the goods in this country are imported from China so the chances of small black businesses or even a black conglomerate becoming viable are slim. Other reasons  black businesses can't get off the ground is obviously because they can't compete with the prices offered by the big box stores like WalMart and supermarket chains. And black stores that cannot offer the merchandize that status seeking black people who are preoccupied and impressed with labels prefer, will not be patronized.   So let's hear it for the owners of soul food restaurants, barbershops and hair salons and hustlers offering rip offs of name brands.  It's not like black people are not taking advantage of available opportunities. It's that America is a capitalistic country dominated by monopolys and corporations.    


As for black women, or ones of any other ethnic group including second generation Asians, pardon them if working 12-hour days slaving over a hot oven in a family owned restaurant is not their goal in life.  Ambitious sisters eschew slave labor and work  jobs that allow them to earn money and have the time to further the schooling that will enable them to move up in life.   When it comes to middleclass black men who own homes in the suburbs, most of them are active in maintaining the neigborhoods in which they have a vested interest, and they are not a thing of the past.  White people would be chastised and called racist for judging all black people by what innercity ones do.


LMAO What whould I have to post about if I didn't have good ol harry brown and "what's-his-name" to bounce off of.  :lol:

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Cynique's "hysterical" rant about how far Black women have come just reminded me.....................lol.

I forgot to mention the disproportionate amount of hysterectomies so many Black women have been getting now a days and how THAT is contributing to the the masculinization process.

((Pioneer beckons the audience with his hand to follow him......))

Now, you can take this as being offensive.
Or you can take it as a man who CARES about his sistaz and want to get to the bottom of what's wrong.

But I had been noticing how deep the voices so many Black women were getting for years.

I'd be in a store or on a plane and would hear what sounded like a Black woman in wording....using terms like "girl" and "honeychild" but the voice would be deep and masculine and freakish sounding like a boy breaking into puberty.
I'd turn around to look and see what man/boy is talking like that and it would often be a Black woman in her 40s or 50s!!!

So  I started asking other Black men and women have they noticed the same thing.

Then a sista said it was the hysterectomies.
I didn't know the details of a hysterectomy but she told me when a woman get's her reproductive parts taken out she has to take hormones to maintain her femininity or the testosterone will take over.....and then it made sense.

But the next question for me would be why are so many more Black women having to have hysterectomies.

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???? A brief observation about black womens' disinterest in working 12-hour days in a family restaurant, slaving over a hot stove, is hardly a "rant" and has nothing to do with how far black women have come. I don't think sistas ever relished this idea. 


First of all, hysterectomies are elective surgery.  A physician can recommend one but it's a woman decision as to whether she wants to have her reproductive organs removed.  If the woman is married, she has to have her husband's signed consent to have this procedure performed. 


Endometriosis is a major reason, women have hysterectomies.  It is a very painful condition involving cramps and heavy menstrual bleeding.  It is caused by a build up of scar tissues on the fallopian  tubes.  Black females are especially prone to this condition because of their high incidence of keloids.  Uterine and ovarian cancer are, of course, the main reason for this procedure.


There are 2 types of hysterectomies, a partial one and a complete one.  A partial one is when just the womb is removed and one or both of the ovaries are left.  If the ovaries are left, it is not necessary to take hormone treatments.  Women who have problem pregnancies can also opt for having their tubes tied or lazed. Again this is her decision.


I question as to whether there is an increase in black women having hysterectomies.  If this is the case I wouldn't be surprised if it is because they are no longer willing to endure all of the pain and hemorrhaging and have decided to ignore the old wives' tales about this surgery making her less of a woman, and will cause her man to lose interest in her.

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I might add to the above, that a low husky voice is not necesssarily a liability.  As opposed to high screechy ones. there are many men and women who think low female voices are sexy. Actually, the timbre of a voice is not as important as its modulation as well as the articulation of the speaker.

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Well if you're 80 and female then you should be more qualified than me to know if there has been any physical changed in Black women.
So let me ask YOU......

If you compare young Black females today with the young Black females 50 years ago, do they seem more masculine to you?

I'm not talking just in terms of attitude or how they dress but in terms of actual physical development such as:
-deeper voices
-wider shoulders
-narrower hips
-rougher skin and hands
-more facial hair

Generally speaking, have YOU noticed any increase in these masculine attribute among Black women over the years?

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I can only share observations drawn from what I see within the parameters of my environment.  I really haven't noticed a masculization of this generation of average black females.  


What I do see is young black girls reaching puberty at a younger age than before. They also seem taller, but just as many of them are thin as they are thick; They don't seem to be any more afflicted with acne or facial hair than white girls and are not noticeably broad-shouldered.  


I also don't find them to be particularly polished in manners or have a lot of self-awarness because they don't seem to realize how common they are in speech. As for their voices, they are just as high and strident as they are low and coarse. The bougie ones, however, do tend to talk like white "valley" girls.  None of them seem to be graced with sparkling personalities but are more into clothes and hair.


 I always kinda thought that women didn't come into their own sexually until the late 20s and early 30s and that younger girls only engaged in sex to get boys or to be popular.  However, according to my street-wise grandson, who is a "babe magnet", the young sexually active girls out there now enjoy sex as much as the guys.  But maybe they are faking this. I'm sure all of these young girls are influenced by how celebs act in the media. 


What I've also noticed is, unlike white girls who continue to smoke cigarettes,  young black girls do not smoke anywhere near as much as previous generations who smoked to be sophisticated and glamorous. They don't drink as much booze either but they do use recreational drugs. 



On a whole, I'd say the caliber of young black females has not drastically changed from the way they were 20 or so years ago.  To me, they come in all varieties.   IMO

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You did not ask me Pioneer but in my short 50+ years in my environment girls are absolutely heavier.  Again not data -- just observations.


If also appears the is a direct correlations between weight and class.  Wealthier children are not as fat as poorer children.  Again my unscientific observations.


I can't speak to the other physical attributes that you mentioned.


It does seem that girls are coming out more frequently and at an earlier age.  I say this because I often see high school aged homosexual girls, or at least presenting as such.  I did not notice this at the same frequency 30/40 years ago for high school girls.

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It's funny you mentioned that Black girls smoke less.
I've noticed that Black girls have always smoked less than White girls, but for the past 10-15 years I've noticed an INCREASE in smoking among Black youth in general.

It seems like a lot more Black youth both male and female are bumming cigarettes and lights from people now a days.
Which tells me most of them aren't serious about smoking because if they were they'd by buying cigarettes by the pack and would keep a lighter on them.

I smoke pipes and cigars infrequently and can go days without either.
It seems most Black people who smoke just do it to imitate Whites or because they don't have anything else to occupy their time.

White people are SERIOUS about their smoking.
You see them standing outside hospitals in their underwear in a hospital gown holding an IV pole while smoking on cigarettes.....they ain't playing.




If also appears the is a direct correlations between weight and class. Wealthier children are not as fat as poorer children. Again my unscientific observations.



Height too.

Wealthy White people tend to be a little taller than the poor Black and Brown populations in the same metro area.

I first noticed this when I was in downtown Columbus Ohio and saw tall White men walking around in suits and the only Black people other than myself I saw were bums reeling back and forth as they begged for money.

They were so short they blended right in with the bushes and shrubs.
After that I started noticing it in other cities.

A Chinese lady who works at a resturant I frequent mentioned the same thing while we were talking about poverty in America.  I've BEEN noticing that wealthier people were thinner, but I was a little suprised that she noticed that also.

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Talk about a conspiracy theory,

Back in the 90s some rappers and comedians kept running their mouth about how nice Black women's curves were and making fun of how flat White women's butts were.
I instinctively knew it wasn't a good idea to do that.

All of a sudden you see young White women (even skinny ones) jogging up and down the street with big round butts bouncing around.

Now, I'm not saying they're putting something in the food to give White women more curves,lol.
I'm just saying.........

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