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Pioneer1

Why I Embrace Being An American

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This sister breaks it down as to why she considers herself an American and embrace America as her country, and as a Black man I feel similarly.

She makes an excellent point about racist Trump supporters wanting to take back "their" country.
Hell, Trump's parents or grandparents are from SCOTLAND....most Black people have ancestors who've gone back 10 or 15 generations on this land!

Also, listen to the West Indian who calls in around 15 minutes later who also articulates as to why Black Americans should embrace their country.

Black people helped build this country, it's silly to let OTHER people (many of them children of immigrants or immigrants themselves) embrace the nation and it's wealth and make themselves at home on land that OUR ancestors fought for.

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@Pioneer1 We're all entitled to our sentiments about this country.  I'm not trying to sway you to my way of thinking and you have failed to change my mind, especially since black people are still at the bottom of the totem pole of the country which  their free labor helped paid immigrants build. You're the silly one to think that black people have any say-so about white people embracing, as their own, the country that they also fought for in  the military that treated your ancestors as second class.  America does not belong to you.  That 's your foolish dream. 

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Pioneer is this really a full 90 minute rant?  I listened to a good 10 minutes and will probably check out more of the video later.  I will also check out breakingbrown.com, a site I never heard of before today.

 

I agree with everything Yvette said in the portion of the video I listened.  The point of the clip that you started was exactly what I was talking about when it comes to having a better understanding of people who don't have a lot of money and how much harder it is for them.  Of course poor white people have the same problems, but they don't have the additional burden of living a a white racist culture.

 

I think Cynique is right the country does not belong to you, or I.  We are allowed to live here (for now).  Most often any wealth we accumulate is the result of providing entertainment for the folks who actually do own this country.  Of course there are loads of wealthy professionals and entrepreneurs in America, but those success stories are a relative minority in the Black community--for the reasons we all understand. 

 

Worse the most successful Black usually give their money and talents to those who really do own the country.  These Back folks strive to go to their schools, live in their neighborhoods, and support their businesses (including their websites).  

 

If these Black folks become successful enough, they begin to see themselves as different, better even, than other Blacks and they begin to talk down poor Blacks.  Bill Cosby famously did this.  There is never a shortage of Black folks who condemn the poor for failing to pull themselves out of poverty while failing to recognize the situation that got them there and the conditions that keep them a virtual permanent underclass.

 

What Yvette was talking about was not letting others tell us that we don't belong here, that we have a right to this country, that we have shed blood to earn our place here.  The "right" however does not mean that what we have.  We have a right to justice, but we don't often get it.

 

@Pioneer1, perhaps your celebration is premature. I think you need to embrace the "fight to become a American." An American who shares equally in the full rights and privileges guaranteed to all of its citizens.  An American that shares the wealth more equitably among it citizens.  

 

New York City for example, has almost 100 billionaires, but there are countless working Black people who are homeless or struggling to pay rent.  While countless apartments sit idle because the wealthy buy them as investments.

 

Nah man, becoming an American is a daily struggle.  Some of us think that struggle ended in the 60's after the passing of civil rights legislation... maybe that is our problem.

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@Pioneer1 I would further add to what Troy said by declaring that not only does this despicable country not belong to your people but that for 400 years your people belonged to it; they were chattel, property, goods and services  bought and sold for the sole  purpose of making life easier for white people. Unlike the immigrants who came to this country, the progeny of blacks were not absorbed into the mainstream but became objects of scorn in the eyes of the children of the immigrants whose white skin allowed them to  move up, while your people remained at the bottom where they remain to this day. You are a nothing more than a foster child of America, and all of your breast-beating will not change this.  

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Cynique and Troy

To say America doesn't belong to us is a fallacy.
Parts of America actually DO belong to us.

Black people own property in America.
Black people own businesses in America.
Black people own radio and television programs and are featured on them.
We have media outlets at our disposal.
Black people hold positions of authority in America from Mayors, Congressional members, Police Chiefs, Judges, Prosecutors on every level....

So we actually HAVE property, wealth and authority....not as much as Whites....but we DO have it.

I keep saying it over and over again, one of the problems with Black people is that we usually don't exercise what little authority we DO have.

When you get used to playing the role of victim and slave letting other people just do whatever they want to you without exercising the power you do have....you're gonna get that little bit taken away from you soon.

Black people actually had more wealth and power in America back in the 70s and early 80s than we do today!
We had more Black businesses in the 70s than we do today.
They lost most of it because they got lazy and satisfied and refused to use it to their collective benefit.

For example, Troy you said Black people have a right to justice but don't often get it.........

Look at D.C. and parts of Maryland.
Look at how many Blacks are in positions of authority in law enforcement from police officers to prosecutors to judges to corrections officers.
Who's MAKING them hold to and enforce the unjust laws that keep so many Black people locked up and locked out of society in the D.C. and Baltimore area?

Black people are in authority in that region.
If they wanted to, they could....with a lot of wrangling....tear down the old laws and build new ones more beneficial to themselves and their community.
But they refuse to do so.
Instead they maintain the same judicial and law enforcement structure the White officials before them started even though it clearly works against them and their people.
They'll complain about "the system" being unjust and not working all day long but at the end of the day they uphold that same system.

Cynique talks about immigrants coming to this nation and being treated better than Blacks.
Again, this is what I mean by the "slave mentality" and thinking like a victim.

There was little we could do about it prior to the 60s, but in 2017 why are Black people ALLOWING immigrants from all over the world to flood into the United States and jump over them economically?
Why are Blacks in Los Angeles letting Latinos drive them out of the neighborhood?
Why are Blacks in Atlanta letting other immigrants push them out and take jobs?

Other groups would riot and have all types of fits and shut down the airports if the same thing were being done to THEM....but Black folks just stand around WATCHING other people take action without taking any of their own.

If you're too afraid to stand at the airport and block the planes full of immigrants from landing, then don't complain about them taking your jobs and jumping over you economically.

"America" isn't the reason why so many of these immigrant groups are doing better than Blacks, it's the fact that rather than seeing them as competition and forcing them go to back home.....Black people PATRONIZE their businesses and support their wealth.

Again, we can't blame America or racism for some things.....the silly victim mentality of the negro is largely to blame for most of his problems.

The problem isn't that we're non-Americans TRYING to be Americans.

The real problem is that we're Americans who DON'T ACT like Americans.

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Quite a lecture coming from somebody who blows a gasket when he's called a nigger". But not quite on point because my cynicism has been mostly about the sullied history of America which it tries to white wash.   When your litany includes Reconstruction, Jim Crowism aided and abetted by sharecropping, lynchings, and most recently hoping that "acting like an American" will count if you're "driving while black" or expecting safe drinking water, then I'll take you seriously.  

 

As it is, i always suspected that you were a closet Trump fan and now i know because your are simply giving a black spin to Trump's battle cry.  Only difference is that making America great again doesn't apply to you.  But rant on.   

 

And you have the gall to talk about a slave mentality never taking into consideration that "slave" is the operative word here, and that everything wrong with black people can be traced back to slavery and what it did to their psyche, and how it elevated the white psyche entitling it with the inbred racism that still permeates this country.   Black people deserve credit for coping and advancing as far as they have in spite of, not because of this bullshit country, a phrase that sticks in your craw because you're so stuffed with your second-class patriotism.

 

Of course, anybody born in America is technically a citizen of this country and, as such, you are entitled to believe what you want about where this places you in the scheme of things. But you are not qualified to tell me that i should emulate you and love and revere this country where equal justice under the law is a myth and where the system is stacked against the poor and underprivileged, and this mean black folks;it also means the black president who white Republicans blocked at every turn and who was the main reason angry white bigots elected your boy, Trump. 

 

We don't agree on this subject and i suggest you leave it at that.  

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@Pioneer1, are you joking?!  What percentage of the population do Black folks make up of America?  Compare that to the percentage of property or business ownership. Once you obtain those two numbers, then let me know what you think then.

 

"What happens to a dream deferred..."

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Cynique
 

Of course, anybody born in America is technically a citizen of this country and, as such, you are entitled to believe what you want about where this places you in the scheme of things. But you are not qualified to tell me that i should emulate you and love and revere this country where equal justice under the law is a myth and where the system is stacked against the poor and underprivileged, and this mean black folks;it also means the black president who white Republicans blocked at every turn and who was the main reason angry white bigots elected your boy, Trump.

We don't agree on this subject and i suggest you leave it at that


Since you just reluctantly made MY POINT....well I guess I CAN leave it at that....lol.



Troy

 

@Pioneer1, are you joking?! What percentage of the population do Black folks make up of America? Compare that to the percentage of property or business ownership.


((Pioneer rests his elbows on the table, claspes his hands, and looks thoughtfully into the distance))

Troy, you know what I think we SHOULD do?

I think perhaps we should stop worrying so much about how much wealth other people have and start focusing more on how much wealth WE can attain for ourselves!

Yes Black people own a disproportionately small amount of land and wealth in this nation for their population, but who's fault is it?

Chinese who live OUTSIDE of America probably own more property around this nation than the Black folks who live here.

 

 


Pointing to a bunch of old White men in suits and how much wealth and power they have or what percentage they hold is good reference material, but practically speaking it's pretty much futile.

What's stopping wealthy Blacks from pooling their money and connections together and building a shopping mall?
Credit union?
Manufacturing plant?

However little we got, we DO have the means to compound and increase what little we DO have with some concentrated effort and motivation.

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@Pioneer1Glad you finally realized that you're not qualified to set yourself up as a role model for me.  Too bad i had to make this point for you because you were obviously incapable of making it for yourself. 

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Pioneer the answer to your question is quite simple  "The white man's ice is colder."

 

That is a cliche that meant very little to me until I started my own business.  I won't bore you with details, but at some point we as a group have to invest in our own businesses.  Sure there are people willing to do this but not nearly enough. 

 

I've read the statistics about our collective buying power, but unless people are willing to spend with us, that buying power means nothing.  Look man, I've been running the site for 20 years and I still can't hire a full time employee and I struggle to pay the folks I do pay.  In the same time frame Bezoe has become a multi-bazillionaire.

 

Today I HAVE to sell books as an Amazon affiliate because readers simply will not buy from me directly.  Writer's tell readers to go Amazon to buy their books as if readers don;t already know that or as if Amazon is the only place to buy books. They completely ignore the indie booksellers that push their books.

 

This does not have to be the case.

 

But we do not invest in our own business.  We happily give our money to the richest people on Earth!  It really boggles the mind, because there are so many people who talk about Black unity but so few that actually practice it.

 

 

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Cynique

Glad you finally realized that you're not qualified to set yourself up as a role model for me.


I think you're mistaken.

Not trying to sound sexist but....
Lol, why would I even ATTEMPT to be a role model for someone who can only urinate
(properly) sitting down?

Just pointing out the fact that as much as you probably hate to admit it, you don't disagree with me as much as you THINK you do.
You're constantly repeating my assertions in your arguments WITH me....lol.


 

 


Troy

I've read the statistics about our collective buying power, but unless people are willing to spend with us, that buying power means nothing


Racism indeed exists in the business community and I found this out doing sales.
People do HATE on Black businesses......
Meaning they'll go out of their way NOT to do business with you even if you have a better product for a cheaper price just because they don't want to see you successful.

But I don't think that's the majority.

Most people...well over 75%....want to get quality product/service first and if they can get it paying less then that's what they'll go for.
I've seen this desire OVER RIDE their racist inclinations.

Having said that.......

What are the REAL reasons most people who don't do business with Black people refuse to do so?
Is it simply because we're Black?
If that's the case...well...why do so many BLACK PEOPLE refuse to do business with other Black people?

Self hate?

OR......

Have the EXPERIENCES of most people Black and non-Black who have patronized Black businesses been somewhat negative and have colored their perceptions of Black businesses?

Experiences like going into an establishment that is being ran by dysfunctional family members instead of qualified employees.

Experiences like......the store not even being open half the time when it should be.

Experiences like not being able to purchase the products that you love half the time because even when the business is open they're "out" of this and "out" of that.

When was the last time you went to a Chinese resturant or an Arab owned liquor store and they were "out" of something?


You bring up the old cliche about the White man's ice being colder.
But I've found out after going into a few Black owned establishments that their ice often tends NOT to be as cold as the typical White establishment!

Why?
Because their fridges tend to be older, less effective, half the lights are off and it's making a loud sound and not keeping the merchandise as cold as it should.

Why is the White man's sugar sweeter?
Perhaps because it's fresher and not so old that it's hardened into a brick.

People are creatures of habit because they learn from their experiences.
I don't think most Black people or even most non-Black people SET OUT to avoid or destroy Black businesses, but if the service or product that Black business offers is inferior or non existent then most people are going to naturally patronize that which is superior and convenient for them.

Yes White people have more money, but there are some things money can't buy.
Laziness and indifference are problems Black people are going to have to solve on their own in order to properly run businesses that will be decent enough for people to patronize.

Much of the same scenarios can be applied to Black businesses online such as websites.

I have to give it to you Troy...this is a wonderful and properly ran website which is one of the reasons why I've frequented it so long.
But many Black ran sites I've been on they only have one or two Black people posting, and the rest are racist trolls who have more to say than Black posters....lol.

Many Black businesses have given up owning their own websites period and just throw everything on facebook.
Another form of laziness and indifference.

Why have so many Black BOOK STORES went out of business across America?
Some of it is the fault of Black people who would rather gossip on social media than walk their ass into a store, grab a book, and read.
Much of it is because of lack of thoughtful ways by Black bookstores to keep the public interested enough to walk through their doors.


It's not America's fault nor is it totally the fault of American racism....it's Black laziness and ineptitude.

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"To say America doesn't belong to us is a fallacy.
Parts of America actually DO belong to us.

Black people own property in America.
Black people own businesses in America.
Black people own radio and television programs and are featured on them.
We have media outlets at our disposal.
Black people hold positions of authority in America from Mayors, Congressional members, Police Chiefs, Judges, Prosecutors on every level....

So we actually HAVE property,
wealth and authority....not as much as Whites....but we DO have it.

I keep saying it over and..............

Again, we can't blame America or racism for some things.....the silly victim mentality of the negro is
largely to blame for most of his problems.

The problem isn't that we're non-Americans TRYING to be Americans.

The real problem is that we're Americans who DON'T ACT like Americans."

 

Nice post. I agree......

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@Pioneer1, thanks for the kind words regarding the site, but it could be infinitely better with more support from my own people, the very people whose culture I'm trying to uplift.

 

I don't know if Black folks don't support Black business because they don't want to see another Black business excel.  If that exists I suspect it is a very small inconsequential percentage of people.

 

I could go on and on about the structural disadvantages Black folks have relative to the majority culture. But you can read Coates and many other books to understand this.

 

I think part of the problem is that folks are too busy struggling themselves and aren't in a position to help another business.  So if they can save 40% off the price of a $30 hardback--assuming the even have the time, energy, or inclination to read such a book--guess who is gonna get that sale.

 

Now my overhead is much lower than Amazon's, but I don't have Wall Street analysts hyping my business getting investors to give me money so that I can continue selling books at a loss--burying even my biggest competitors.

 

Meanwhile, virtually every author enthusiastically gives Amazon free publicity by saying their books can be purchased on Amazon. There was a time when an author felt a great deal of pride by saying their book was available in a massive chain store, but ANYBODY can get their book on Amazon--there is no prestige in it being available there. Still, authors get Amazon all the glory, rarely mentioning a Black independent store... 

 

Perhaps the reason the Black owned stores have trouble maintaining stock is that they can't get a business loan, and they have a much more difficult time obtaining credit, the deliveries are not as timely to their neighborhoods, they find it difficult to get a lease in a nice location, or they don't get the best terms from distributors. The fact of the matter it is more difficult for us.

 

That lack of support from other Black folks just ads insult to injury. 

 

All you see is a struggling business, which you attribute to laziness.  I'm telling you as a business owner there are structural factors that prevent us from achieving at the same level as out white counterparts.  Amazon started out selling books out of a garage right?

 

We will never have strong Black business unless people invest in them and divest of the massive corporations. In other words, skip Amazon and a patronize a Black owned bookstore.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Just pointing out the fact that as much as you probably hate to admit it, you don't disagree with me as much as you THINK you do.
You're constantly repeating my assertions in your arguments WITH me....lol.

 

@Pioneer1  And the way you flip-flop and bitch about places like Flint, Michigan, and white cops all going free after executing black people is not exactly out of line with what I'm saying. Not to mention taking leave of your senses if called the dreaded "n-word"   by a white person.

 

Bottom line, you love this country and i don't, and nothing you blubber about changes my mind because i'm about the truth not about a lot of masochistic schmaltz that has yet to disprove that black people succeed in this country in spite of how the odds are stacked against them because of their color. "Victimization" is a code word, used  by white folks and boot strap black ones, in an effort to neutralize  the reality that black people are victims, scarred by the slave legacy that has spawned the double consciousness which makes them neurotic and sometimes dysfunctional.

 

While browsing through a copy of ESSENCE magazine, i just happen to come across an article headlined "The Shame of a Nation" about a newly-released, scathing,  well-researched book entitled "The Price For Their Pound of Flesh" written by a black historian named Daina Ramey Berry.  Why would i be impacted by your isolated examples  when there are people out there who, when it comes to this bull shit country, know whereof they speak when they expose America's terrible history, as opposed to apologist slave descendants like you, jes happy dat dey they allowed some of us negroes to eke out a livin in dis glory land where our free labor helped build some roads and buildings in a few states. 

 

 

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On 7/21/2017 at 6:37 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Cynique

Glad you finally realized that you're not qualified to set yourself up as a role model for me.


I think you're mistaken.

Not trying to sound sexist but....
Lol, why would I even ATTEMPT to be a role model for someone who can only urinate
(properly) sitting down?
 

How can there be unity, without respect.Your statements show that you want to replace one type of domination with another.

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Troy

I've mentioned this before, but literature even when it's in the form of novels is a little too sophisticated for most AfroAmericans today.
They have been "dumbed down" for the past 50 years and this is one of the reasons I believe your site doesn't have the traffic you expect.

Most of our people like "gossip" sites where there's a lot of drama and fighting and conflict going on where they can let their emotions run free rather than use their intellect which most literature requires one to do.

And ofcourse, when they don't come on and frequent it much.....they don't see a reason to support it finanically or otherwise.

That's why I think you should organize OFF LINE with some other of your colleagues at your university as well as those you know personally and organize some Black intellectual groups or academic groups to maintain a culture of Black intellectualism.

You can't really force it on the Black public in general, but if you create an environment where it is free to manifest and refine itself then it will attract the right type of people not only to your internet interests but to your social and financial interests in the real world.

If I were highly educated one of the first things I'd do was form of group of AfroAmerican scholars and maintain close contact with eachother for the rest of our lives so that we'd always have a support base for future endeavors.

 

 
 


Cynique

 

jes happy dat dey they allowed some of us negroes to eke out a livin in dis glory land
 

You do that quite well.

I bet you learned to talk like that while auditioning for your role as victim of a bullshit nation that keeps her citicizens oppressed and enslaved.....but teaches them how to read and lets them go to school and work in the government.....lol.

They say familiarity breeds contempt.
Perhaps you don't like America because you haven't been to many other places to compare it to.

I think you need to take a trip to central America and see how most of the Black people live THERE and maybe you'll have more appreciation for what few opportunities Black folks atleast have in the United States.





 




Del

How can there be unity, without respect.Your statements show that you want to replace one type of domination with another.


A few points..........

1. I have respect for Cynique not just because of her age but because of her sharp mind and wit, but my idea of respect and how it's displayed may be different than yours and how you do it.

My morality and ethics don't always line up with that of general society, they are guided by my logic and experiences rather than public sentiment.

For example, I don't think sexual or bodily function comments to females are disrespectful UNLESS they are done to female members of your own family.
And vice versa....
I don't think a female joking with a male about sexuality or bodily functions are disrespectful UNLESS she's saying it to a male member of her own family.



2. I believe in unity, but CONDITIONAL unity.
Meaning, I have no desire to unite with ALL AfroAmericans.....I want to unite with those of LIKE MIND who think similar to me and share similar goals.
In that respect......I don't know if I want to unite with Cynique (or you for that matter) because I'm not sure what her (and your) goals are or what you all desire for AfroAmericans as a group.
Ofcourse I'd like to "get along" with you and all of my people, but when it comes to working together or uniting....I have to know where you stand on certain issues before link myself with you.

3. I'm not sure what those two types of "domination" are you're speaking of that I want to replace one with another.
You might have to clarify that one.

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@Pioneer1 Too bad you can't understand standard English.  Just what part about my saying the reason i have contempt for this country is because of its unsavory history and blatant hypocrisy, don't you understand??? How many times do i have to reiterate that it is my contention that black people have come as far as they have not because of the American legacy but in spite of it!   I'm not the only person saying this, Many have reached this conclusion over the years.  It's essentially what James Baldwin, and Malcolm X and your hero Farrakhan said, what Ta-nehisi Coates and Toni Morrison write. What  LeBron James and Colin Kaeprenick and even JayZ are realizing.  Even white truth seekers acknowledge it.  And it is what people who are coming here to pursue the American dream are now finding out. This country when left to its own devices evolved into a haven for white people couched in their skin color, and the richer they are the better they thrive. Donald Trump personifies America at its worst and he is the president.  But even the poor whites maintain their status and Trump is their idol. Everybody else is on their own, and lot of those fall through the cracks, especially black ones,  - victims, yes!

 

But if it makes you heart beat a little prouder, yes, America is the best of the worst. Now go wrap yourself in the flag, stick your thumb in your mouth and take a nap.  :P  

 

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To emphasize Cynique's point.  if anyone one of the characters in 45's Whitehouse were black they would have been deservedly laughed out or consideration.  Look at that kid Kushner; does anyone that absent his inherited with, whiteness and ,marriage to 45's daughter that he would be doing anything but working some minimum wage job (all due respected to minimum wage job workers)?

 

@Pioneer1, sure you are right regarding the nature of traffic to the site.  I know much of what I push will not appeal to the masses.  But I would rather people "reach" to engage with the content here, rather than me trying to speak down to people to increase engagement.

 

Besides the competition for appealing to the lowest common denominator is STIFF.  That demographic's attention span is short and fleeting. It takes a powerful machine to crank out that type of content with the regularity to compete on traffic.  The most successful entities in this space, like social media, have there own visitors produce this content for them.  This is why I don't publish content on social media and why I think those that do should be paid.

 

One of the most popular pages on my site, often hundreds of visitors a day, is obtained by people running the query "who is elias gutierrez"  When I first noticed this a few years ago.  I had no clue who Elias Gutierrez was, and someone explained it to me.  I posted that explanation on AALBC.com and now THAT page is #3 on the search results!   This is what you would describe as pure "Gossip." I could greatly expand content on this dude to attract more traffic, but again I have no interest in doing this...

 

But one thing I'l will to do that appeals to more folks is lists.  These lists ALL generate a great deal of traffic.  My new database allows me to create these lists very easily and update these lists and I find they are a great way to introduce readers to new authors and books.

 

As far as reaching out to academia at universities even the one I work for is something to consider. Outside of the folks at Medgar Evers College in Brooklyn, I have not engaged with universities or colleges at all.

 

 

 

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