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Pioneer1

War For The Planet Of The Apes

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Pioneer1    454

Saw WFTPOTA a few days ago and it wasn't a bad flick.

I personally liked the original more low budget sagas of the 60s and early 70s much better, but this modern trilogy wasn't too bad.

But I must say, there was so many subliminal messages in that movie it was disturbing.

Deray McKesson and Tariq Nasheed caught a little heat from saying that the movie had racist undertones in it but I have to agree with them whole heartedly that the movie was subtly racist.
My only issue with Deray and Tariq is that they used to weakest points to make their case like one of the characters wearing a blue vest.
Hell, there were about 10 or 15 stronger points in this movie that would support any claims of racism aimed at it.
We don't really need to grasp for straws.

Let's start with some of the soldiers wearing signs that read, "The only good ape is a dead ape".
That line was clearly lifted from older racist rhetoric from the Jim Crow era.

Or the fact that they kept the apes in concentration camps.
That wasn't a part of the original movie of the 70s, the apes had their own government.
In this one they basically make them slaves and holocaust victims giving it more racial undertones.

The female apes often wore beads in their hair for decoration.....and most of us know Black girls tend to wear beads in their hair for decoration.

There are so many subliminally racist messages in the movie it ain't even funny.

 

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Troy    922

Well you know white folks really believe Black people are really a missing link between monkeys and themselves.

 

Again modern science explains that, genetically, white people are more different than each than we are from them.  But hey people like to feel superior to others and perpetuating these stereotypes plays well to and resonates with the white masses.  

 

I'll wait for it to be available online later this year...

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Pioneer1    454

This just goes back to the discussion we were having months ago about subtle racism and being able to recognize it.

I remember on an episode of The View a few weeks ago Whoopi Goldberg went off on Deray and others who accused the new Apes movie of subliminal racism and said they were crying wolf and grasping for straws.

Many of our people simply can't think "deep" enough to recognize how subliminal messages and subtle language as well as dog whistles are used to demean them and influence the image the public has about them.
They just can't see it......until someone points it out to them.

And even once it's pointed out many of our people are still not smart enough to recognize it and accept it.



Actually I believe that apes actually came FROM HUMANS...lol.


I can't really prove it but I have this idea that somehow when we were more scientifically advanced Africans mixed human genes with monkeys (the little simians with tails) and through that combination we made APES (gorillas, chimps, ect.....).

But when you really look at apes, you can find aspect of thier physique that can be applied to all races.

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Pioneer1    454

Troy

Pioneer don't share that theory with anyone else


Wasn't planning to, lol.

My aim was to share it with YOU, and subsequently you'd start teaching it to your students as an actual science until or unless proven otherwise.

If you did me that one SOLID, I'd sure appreciated it....lol.

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Pioneer1    454

Why is it so hard to believe that apes came FROM humans?

If White scientists came along tomorrow and said it you'd probably wouldn't find it so laughable but would consider the possibility.

But since a Black man suggested it.....you find it ridiculous.

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Cynique    1,401

@Pioneer1  Apes and humans probably share a common ancestor  but somewhere along the evolutionary process, they veered off into separate species.  Homo Sapiens and Simians may be cousins.  But so what?

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Xeon    94

"But since a Black man suggested it.....you find it ridiculous."

 

Uhhhhhh....NO! You being black has nothing to do with it. What evidence or research have you done to indicate that it is plausible? Where are your facts, data, research references and even  compelling scientific documents that support such a theory? Just saying you believe something does not make it true. Big difference between an opinion and intelligent plausible theory....

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Troy    922

The fact of the matter Pioneer is that no scientist, Black or white, has proven that apes came from men.  In fact all the evidence points to the scenario Cynique described.  As Xeon, wrote simply saying something, or believing it to be true, does not make it true--but you know that.

 

Where did you get the idea that apes evolved from man anyway?

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Pioneer1    454


Cynique
 

Apes and humans probably share a common ancestor but somewhere along the evolutionary process, they veered off into separate species. Homo Sapiens and Simians may be cousins. But so what?
 

I was actually going to mention this but you beat me to it.

The "theory" of evolution teaches that both humans and apes broke off from the same species some time ago.
If that is the case, why is it so hard for so many people to believe that apes came from those early humans?

 

 

 

 



Troy

Where did you get the idea that apes evolved from man anyway?


Since being a kid and just looking at the similarities between humans and apes, especially chimps and gorillas and seeing the smaller tailed monkeys....apes pretty much look like a CROSS BREED between the two...lol.

Later as I got older and was introduced to the teachings of Elijah Muhammad, he also taught that apes came from human beings.

There used to be an old saying among White men and I'm sure you remember it,
"Well I'll be a monkey's uncle".

I'm not sure where they got that phrase from but there's probably more truth to that than we'll ever know...lol.

Man, it's just a consideration or a mild belief.
I'm not standing on the corner preaching it, but if I had to put money on who came from what....I'd put my money more on apes coming from a humans perhaps from some sort of ancient technological experiment with human DNA being cross bred with monkey DNA.

But again, I don't push it as fact because I simply don't know.

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Troy    922

Wow I did not know they taught that in the Nation of Islam.  Well I guess that puts them ahead of Christianity that is pushing to get the entire theory of evolution pushed out of school altogether in favor of creationism.

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Cynique    1,401

Well, we don't know whether the common ancestor was an ape or a human.  Darwin theorized  that apes came first.  And he is just as credible as the NOI. 

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Xeon    94

"Later as I got older and was introduced to the teachings of Elijah Muhammad, he also taught that apes came from human beings."

 

You learned that from Elijah Muhammad? Oh! Well, that explains everything. That was a very scholarly and well respected source of scientific information....Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

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Pioneer1    454

I don't agree with everything the man taught but I'll tell you this much.......
I've gotten more wisdom and have truth from his teachings that has been VERIFIED and PROVEN to my satisfaction than I've gotten from text books of White so-called "science".

Elijah Muhammad was teaching back in the 30s that the White race were genetically weaker than Black people years before White scientists either knew or admitted to such with thier recessive genes and alleles.

He also taught that the story of Moses found in the Bible didn't actualy happen but that the REAL Moses had an entirely different history.
He was teaching this back in the 1930s.
And sure enough in the late 40s Sigmund Freud comes along and writes "Moses and Monotheism" which basically says that the story of Moses in the Bible was indeed false.

He taught that the Black man was BILLIONS of years old during a time when most people still believed in The Flood and thought humanity was less than 6000 years old.

Again, I don't agree with everything he taught....but I certainly have found no fault in most of it.

You can put your faith in White science if you want to.

They can't even cure a damn cold but can tell you the origins of man....LOL.

 

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Troy    922

@Pioneer1, when I was first exposed to the teachings of the NOI it was through their messenger Farrakhan.  This was over 30 years ago and Farrakhan was then a very charismatic figure his message resonated with me because he spoke about the strength of Black people about Black people being powerful.  It was a message that was new to me at the time.

 

Sure, when he said Black people are genetically superior, then one considered that most of the players  in the NFL and NBA are Black that would seem to make sense.  When he speaks about white people being devils and your think about all the mayhem Europeans have caused over the last 500 years across the globe that make sense too.  When you are beat down and someone gives you a message of strength pride and hope, that feels great.  Louis Farrakhan made me feel great about myself and the potential of Black people.

 

His message was catered to people outside the NOI, once you dig deep it is a different thing.  But for some people it works which is great.  Which is wonderful.  But religions often teach you things that run counter to science.  Personally, I draw the line there.  

 

Today we know humans are essentially identical genetically. Blacks dominate the NFL and NBA because they work much harder at doing it.  White folks dominate tennis and Ice Hockey; that does not mean they are genetically superior does it?

 

The fact that that flood myths predate the Bible and known across cultures was known before the NOI was created. Actually some people believe the flood myths results from the end of the ice ages when glaciers melted flooding many areas to be destroyed by flood, but that is another story... 

 

There is no scientific evidence than man is Billions of years old and that apes came from man.  Indeed all of what we know rejects that idea.  

 

Not all scientists are white.  Indeed many will argue the first scientist were Black.  In any case, white people do not own science.  In my mind saying "You can put your faith in White science if you want to." is the same thing as saying "talking white" or "school is for white people."

 

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Pioneer1    454

 

I first came into contact with NOI teachings through PUBLIC ENEMY.

I was always conscious and racial....even as a little child.
So they did samples of Malcolm and Farrakhan and then I started studying both and I would go to Black book stores and read books by Chancellor Williams, Ivan Van Sertima, and ofcourse Elijah Muhammad.
But the books by Elijah and the NOI were more "readable" to me because they didn't have that scholarly feel like other more educated Black writers had.

But more important than the literature and doctrine alone, it was the RESULTS I saw in the men in the community that made me take more notice in the Nation of Islam.
Unlike many churches and neighborhood programs, I would see GENUINE CHANGE in most Black men who went to the Nation of Islam mosques.
They'd go in and out of jail gangster as hell but in a few months their skin would be shining, they'd be dressed up, and they'd be holding doors open for women and smiling at other Black men calling them brother.....lol.





Not all scientists are white. Indeed many will argue the first scientist were Black. In any case, white people do not own science. In my mind saying "You can put your faith in White science if you want to." is the same thing as saying "talking white" or "school is for white people."


Not all scientists are White, but MOST of them are eiter White or Asian.
Only a small percentage of them are Black or Native American and that only has me suspicious of the "scientific community".

My suspicion of what I call "White science" isn't based on incompitence or believing that they are in error.
My suspicion is based on my belief that they are decieving the public.

I suspect there are very smart White scientists who are covering up a lot of truth and only letting SOME of it come out whether it has to do with health, history, ect....


For example, I believe the cure for cancer and AIDS not only exist but is known among SOME scientists but that knowledge is being held from the most of the public.



In my mind saying "You can put your faith in White science if you want to." is the same thing as saying "talking white" or "school is for white people."


Well, BOTH statements would be correct.
The "science" of this society IS White because it was founded by and for White people to advance themselves with.
And the school system was also founded by and for White people to advance themselves with.

Most of the discoveries were by White people or by Black people living INSIDE White societies using White tools and methods.
So whateve benefit those discoveries have.....White society still gets the credit.


We had our own methods of what would be called science today.....voodoo and other traditional religions are an example of this ancient science and medical system we practices since before recorded history.
We also have schools in which we passed along those traditions....and still do in some cases.
But it doesn't seem to be as sophisticated and developed as Western/White science.

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Troy    922

Sure capitalism and the profit motive which is designed to reward the most greedy has screwed up all types of things including medicine and science.

 

But that doesn't make science bad; it doesn't make science White; it's just perverted, in much the same way greedy ministers have perverted Christianity.

 

I don't think there is a cure for cancer if there was, Steve Jobs would be alive.

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Xeon    94

“I've gotten more wisdom and have truth from his teachings that has been VERIFIED and PROVEN to my satisfaction than I've gotten from text books of White so-called "science".

 

Really? That’s interesting. Can you detail what exactly what the Elijah Muhammad Institute of Technology and Science teach you that clearly demonstrated the inferiority and fallacy of “so-called white science”? Can you give us details about the flaws of white science that was exposed at EMITS? Was it physics? Chemistry? Engineering? Medicine? And for the record -I never knew science was race based. The same mathematical conclusions and computations used by the Chinese, Arabs, Aztecs, Egyptians, et al, were the same. And if memory serves me correct, all the chemistry, physics and math used by all people –regardless of race or ethnicity yield the same results. I’ve never heard of "non-white science" (whatever that means) and math proving totally contradictory findings to so-called "white science". I’m very interested in your documentation and verifiable data. Please enlighten me….

“Elijah Muhammad was teaching back in the 30s that the White race were genetically weaker than Black people years before White scientists either knew or admitted to such with thier recessive genes and alleles.

 

Whites are genetically inferior to black people? Really? You sound like the black version of William Shockley or Arthur Jenson. Interesting. But just exactly how are they inferior? Intellectually? Biologically? Physically? What studies and research was done at EMITS that can prove this? And when were these studies done? Please provide scholarly research references. I would really like to read them. I’ll wait for your response….

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