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Troy

Comprehension is Intimately Intertwined with Knowledge

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Troy you are saying NASA knew. That is only partially true. Management didn't.  And they weren't listening to the engineers. I read the report and watched the news report, recently. Feynman said that Nasa had couldn't properly assess the risk. if they could this disaster would have never happened. 

 

You can't say NASA knew of the risk. If management didn't know and the engineers did. To me that's  a basic point. 

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Del the read that he lead engineer refused to sign off on the launch?  What does that tell you?  Again, I ask you the question the Feynman reveal anything that was not previously known by others?  If not, then why do you reject my statement that you give Feynman too much credit? 

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@Troy  Ok finally read the article. 

 

I rarely like the leaps op-ed writers take in articles  but this one is right on the money.   He nailed exactly why children in the inner-city or in impoverished areas are being left behind.  Educational budget cuts have  chopped away at any additional exposure these children can have in an effort to become literate.   

 

Someone once asked me did I ever graduate college and if I didn't how did I as single mother manage to raise 3 college-educated daughters including one that graduated from one the top universities in the world and the other from law school...

 

At first, I was offended because he implied that since he didn't consider me  one of the "better-blacks" I was an outlier.  Then I took a step back from being butthurt  and realized  I was an outlier due to the experiences my parents afforded me.  My daughters are brilliant not in spite of their environment but because of it.  

 

My oldest daughter was born when most of people our age didn't have children.  She became our mascot.  And like a rag doll, all of my college friends, my mom, their moms etc took her to places that I couldn't. When I could, I took her on trips, such as to museums, art shows, dance recitals , lectures that I wanted to see or visit.   

 

For what would be the first grade, she tested into the LEAD program that New York City Public Schools offered in the 80s for the gifted and talented.  Her Stanford-Binet IQ measured between 130-140. 

 

We left New York City and landed in "Byrdland" where the former Senator Robert Byrd funneled so much pork barrel money into the public schools that  my girls got to participate in activities such as the very first Live from Mars  where the mobile and wireless telerobot Sojourner sent back pictures of Mars in 1997.  My twins were 6 years old when they  attended NASA's Classroom of the Future, which was one of the JPL's satellite sites for the transmission.  

 

By the time my oldest daughter graduated high school - she was awarded a full ride scholarship to West Virginia University to study in their newly created program Forensic Science... 

 

This article is dead-on... When my children were born we lived a modest life but I gave them a wealth of experiences... In fact, I pursued a career that would allow me to give them richer experiences than their wealthier counterparts.   It paid off too my middle daughter was admitted into Project Arrow (another gifted and talented program) in the 7th grade. 

By the time, the twins  were in high school, I pursued another career that would provide them more opportunities.

 

Whereas girls their age may have been looking for the latest club to hang out over a long weekend my daughters spent their weekends and holidays in Rome, Dubai, Tokyo and famed spots here in the U.S.    In their Grammy award-winning public high school music department - they sat first chair with respective instruments, the flute and trumpet, in the School's band. 

All this to say,  this article highlights the reasons why there's educational disparity between the haves and have-nots.   Since I wasn't part of the two-parent- Martha's Vineyard in the Summer - Aspen in the Winter  "better blacks" Crew...I refused to let my children suffer. So, I did one better;  I sacrificed myself,  took every handout and hand-up  and used my talents to give my girls the world and Mars. 

 

I succeeded but If you're a single-parent with no help , working from sun up to sun down; how can you expose your children to rich experiences to broaden their knowledge base?

When I went to public school we went on trips to the Hayden planetariums, Bronx zoo, Botanical gardens, Museum of Natural History, etc. By the time my first daughter  entered public school, she was fortunate because only the gifted and talented classes went on field trips. 

 

Some say, street knowledge and the school of hard-knocks will help our children  succeed but that's only useful if we want them to survive the streets. 

 

If we want our children to thrive, we must find a way to supplement their education with experiences that will provide a foundation for learning and critical thinking.   Further,  If we hope for a better education for our children we must elect legislators who will stop cutting the education budget. 

 

 

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“Some say, street knowledge and the school of hard-knocks will help our children  succeed but that's only useful if we want them to survive the streets. 

If we want our children to thrive, we must find a way to supplement their education with experiences that will provide a foundation for learning and critical thinking.” —Mel Hopkins

 

I believe this to be true.  However I have lost hope that legislative process can be a viable solution--that boats sailed long ago.  Between the gerrymandering of districts, the misinformation and disinformation circulating, voter apathy, lobbyists working for the privatization of education, and the fact that wealthy people kids are getting great educations now.  

 

Is your daughter in the video? if not, it sure looks like you could have spit that child out yourself :-)

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

I believe this to be true.

 

and @Troy  looks like there might be proof too...  I got around to reading the links in the article and Louisiana department of education has adopted the high quality content standard.  It appears the literacy standard is  paying off in the lower grades...  When we get back to basics - as you mentioned "Knowledge is the basis for understanding" they children learn.. Aww sookie sookie they are creating readers in Lousiana!!!

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Well that is good news.  Louisiana has historically had the poorest performing school in the country particularly for Black children. I would be happy to see LA surpass New York.  Maybe the embarrassment will be enough for legislators to do something :)

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16 hours ago, Troy said:

Del the read that he lead engineer refused to sign off on the launch?  What does that tell you?  Again, I ask you the question the Feynman reveal anything that was not previously known by others?  If not, then why do you reject my statement that you give Feynman too much credit? 

If NASA is so smart why even use Feynman. Fir the same reason he was put in charge of older more established physicists when he worked on the Atomic bomb. Because in a room full of smart guys he's the really smart guy. 

 

Read appendix F.

16 hours ago, Troy said:

Del the read that he lead engineer refused to sign off on the launch?  What does that tell you?  Again, I ask you the question the Feynman reveal anything that was not previously known by others?  If not, then why do you reject my statement that you give Feynman too much credit? 

Because they still launched. 

Edited by Delano

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Del who said Feynman was not smart?  The man is about as smart as they come. Feynman was used because it was government investigation a 3rd party is used in these situations. Man do you now anything about the investigation?  That was rhetorical question your statements make the answer obvious.

 

Yes Del, they still launched despite knowing the risk. Which is my point.  Feynman did not uncover the flawed o-rings or even NASA's poor management; this was all know the Rodgers commission made this public knowledge.

 

 

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Lots of posts in different directions......lol.
 

 


Let me say 2 things:

1. I USED TO believe the knowledge was just information and facts.
But found out that unless that information and facts comes with a proper understanding then it's still not knowing.

I'll use another example.....

If you go to someone who is can see, but is illiterate and hand them a book.
That's GIVING them information.
But they still don't KNOW what they're seeing because they can't read and don't UNDERSTAND what they're seeing and receiving.

When someone just gets information or data....it's called AWARENESS.
They PERCEIVE information with their senses.
But in order to KNOW what they perceive they have to PROCESS that information and make sense of it.


 

 

 


2. Troy and Mel were talking about people being born with atalent.

If we were to take our focus off the divine or spiritual aspect of talents and gifts and focus strictly on the humanistic perspective..............


I believe that certain people are born with certain genetic traits that are abnormally developed.
Meaning they are better at a particular function than most others.

Stronger vocal cords, bigger muscles, bigger dang-a-lang, better memory, better imagination, ect......

But depending on their ENVIRONMENT and what has been DISCOVERED....those traits may or may not be considered a gift or talent.

For example, a person may be born with strong vocal cords that they have excellent control over.
In America they would be considered having a talent to SING.
But if they were born in some culture where singing isn't allowed or isn't a big deal, then they wouldn't be considered talented....they would just be somebody with strong vocal cords.

The same person born with strong muscles and muscular control in America may be said to have a TALENT for basketball or football.
But if they were born 2000 years ago in Rome they would be considered a talented GLADIATOR.
And if they were born in some remote place where physical skills aren't important...they wouldn't be considered to have any talent at all.

Look at RAPPERS like Jay Z and Ice Cube.
They are considered very talented and have gotten rich in THIS society.
Because rap first had to be invented and marketed.

But if they were born in Iran 100 years ago would they have become rich or have been considered talented?

So from a strictly humanistic point of view perhaps much of what we consider talent is better than normal physical or mental traits that need the proper environment in which to express themselves before being recognized as gifts.

 

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Wait, @Pioneer1 did you just throw a gratuitous "bigger penis" in there just for kicks?  What environment would a big penis not come in handy?  (oh God, I know the nasty-gram from Google is on it way now... we used the word "penis" on a page with their ads,... hey did anyone hear that?  That was my search engine ranking hitting the floor).

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16 hours ago, Troy said:

Del who said Feynman was not smart?  The man is about as smart as they come. Feynman was used because it was government investigation a 3rd party is used in these situations. Man do you now anything about the investigation?  That was rhetorical question your statements make the answer obvious.

 

Yes Del, they still launched despite knowing the risk. Which is my point.  Feynman did not uncover the flawed o-rings or even NASA's poor management; this was all know the Rodgers commission made this public knowledge.

 

 

read appendix F.

2 hours ago, Troy said:

Wait, @Pioneer1 What environment would a big penis not come in handy?  

A male locker room.

Well at least not for me. You seem to feel it's good everywhere. 

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Yes @Pioneer1 Google is the moral police, if you are part of their ad network.  But unlike the police who will bring you in front of a judge (usually) for due process, Google are judge, jury, and executioner.  In this particular case, I did not mean for you to change your post.  I was just making light of the situation, and thumbing my nose at Google by using the word myself.  Which is dangerous because Google could easily put me out of business in a heartbeat  (for real).

 

@Delano, a locker room is exactly where you want a massive package so you can show who the dominant male is...I guess you wouldn't know anything about that ;)

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16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you go to someone who is can see, but is illiterate and hand them a book.
That's GIVING them information.
But they still don't KNOW what they're seeing because they can't read and don't UNDERSTAND what they're seeing and receiving.

When someone just gets information or data....it's called AWARENESS.
They PERCEIVE information with their senses.
But in order to KNOW what they perceive they have to PROCESS that information and make sense of it.

But you can give an illiterate person information and facts by simply telling it to them. Not being  able to read doesn't render a person deaf and mute.   Once  you tell them something,  their innate intelligence will determine whether they will subsequently comprehend what they have been told. Slaves couldn't read or write but that didn't interfere with them comprehending things.   Griots are prime examples of oral communication.  They were fonts of information who verbalized the history of their people.

 

Awareness and knowledge are the same thing, as are comprehension and understanding.  You are confusing knowledge with wisdom.  Wisdom has to do with whether you wisely apply what you have comprehended in the course of living your life. 

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

Yes @Pioneer1 Google is the moral police, if you are part of their ad network.  But unlike the police who will bring you in front of a judge (usually) for due process, Google are judge, jury, and executioner.  In this particular case, I did not mean for you to change your post.  I was just making light of the situation, and thumbing my nose at Google by using the word myself.  Which is dangerous because Google could easily put me out of business in a heartbeat  (for real).

 

@Delano, a locker room is exactly where you want a massive package so you can show who the dominant male is...I guess you wouldn't know anything about that ;)

It sounds like you know a lot about big penis in the locker room. 

Unlike yourself Iam not trying to impress much less look at other men's penis in the locker room. 

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