Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Cynique

THE ABSURDITY OF THE TRUTH

Recommended Posts

 

2 hours ago, Troy said:

...so now we are talking about the entire western world. 

 

Bottom line Cynique you and I know every well that if your daughters all showed up unable to identify the father of your grandchildren, because they were sleeping with a bunch of different dudes you would not be pleased -- and for good reason, because well should make judgements. If we don't make judgment our moral code has not meaning -- it has to be enforced.

 

Cynique define "adult."  Is it based upon age, say 21 or 18?  Can and adult be based upon sexual maturity at say 13?  This is an important issue because when you say "consenting adult" I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

Also the "western world" only makes of a small percentage of the planet's population -- and most of those people don't subscribe to the values you or I might hold so dear.  Our attitudes dominant because, as the four-eyed gangsta say, America has big guns are we are willing to use them.

 

 

@TroyNothing you say has anything to do with the point i am trying to make in response to you and  Pioneer insisting that this society with its white western values is a puritanical one that represses people's natural instincts. The gist of what i am saying is that this is actually a pretty free-wheeling society we live in. i am not talking about the necessity of moral codes. That's another subject. 

 

And i can't believe you don't know "the age of consent" when it comes to sex.   Anybody over 17 is free to engage in sex with anyone they choose, as long as it is mutually agreed upon. They just  have to deal with whatever personal consequences ensue from this. But it is not something they are legally forbidden to do.  And it's also not against the law for any single female to have a baby. Abortion is more contested than this.  When statutory rape enters the picture then the law steps in. This is how it goes in this white western country.  i have no idea what the rules are in the African sphere where Pioneer, especially, seems to think that anything goes when it comes to black folks gettin their groove on in the course of being "natural".

 

Incidentally, my daughters and granddaughters are all over the age of 17 and i don't meddle in their personal lives.  I trust them to be mature enough to  do what's best for themselves inasmuch as my disapproval would probably fall on deaf ears.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cynique I understand your point I just disagree with it. 

 

It is clear to be that your worldview is one shared by folks living in or near big cities.  I'm sure despite everything I've written that I'll never convince you that there are large swaths of this country that don't agree with abortion, out of wedlock birth, homosexuality, consumption of alcohol, and all the other practices you city slickers seem to enjoy (think Nation of Islam -- but for the rest of America).

 

No, I was not familiar with the universal law called the "the age of consent."  I presume this means that I as a 56 year old man can have sex with a 17 as long is I can convince her to agree to do it -- which I assure you would not be very difficult.  In your book of morality is that cool with you? 

 

I'm asking because my next question would be how about if she were 15? At some point you'd draw a line and and I'd give you an examples of people who have crossed that line, and contrast it with your own "puritanical" values.

 

I do not think you are as "liberal" as you are trying to make yourself appear to be Cynique -- but that is a good thing.

 

Again we all judge and for good reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Troy said:

It is clear to be that your worldview is one shared by folks living in or near big cities.  I'm sure despite everything I've written that I'll never convince you that there are large swaths of this country that don't agree with abortion, out of wedlock birth, homosexuality, consumption of alcohol, and all the other practices you city slickers seem to enjoy (think Nation of Islam -- but for the rest of America).

It is apparently not clear to you because you have cruised into straw man territory, veering off into projection side roads, lecturing to me about things which i have not rendered an opinion on.  i've never said that everybody in this country approves of the behavior that adults are free to indulge in this society, and i didn't express my approval of everything adults are free to do. Or have i belittled moral codes as you imply. These are all things you conjured up to refute.  

 

2 hours ago, Troy said:

No, I was not familiar with the universal law called the "the age of consent."  I presume this means that I as a 56 year old man can have sex with a 17 as long is I can convince her to agree to do it -- which I assure you would not be very difficult.  In your book of morality is that cool with you? 

 

I'm asking because my next question would be how about if she were 15? At some point you'd draw a line and and I'd give you an examples of people who have crossed that line, and contrast it with your own "puritanical" values.

 

What book of morality are you referring to? You're the one who has set himself up as a paragon of virtue, whose example i should follow.     If you think i have "puritanical" values, why would you "accuse"  me of being liberal? Make up your mind, or check the definition of the word puritanical if you can stop being inconsistent long enough to do this.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait, what?! Quote a single thing @Cynique, that I wrote that would substantiate me setting myself up as the paragon of virtue... please.

 

What I trying to point out to you is that the term moral is relative and by some standards your views would be seen as "puritanical."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Troy said:

Wait, what?! Quote a single thing @Cynique, that I wrote that would substantiate me setting myself up as the paragon of virtue... please.

 

What I trying to point out to you is that the term moral is relative and by some standards your views would be seen as "puritanical."

OK.

6 hours ago, Troy said:

 I understand your point I just disagree with it. 

 

.  Righteous indignation permeated your whole attitude as you proceeded to show me the error of my ways.

6 hours ago, Troy said:

I'm sure despite everything I've written that I'll never convince you that there are large swaths of this country that don't agree with abortion, out of wedlock birth, homosexuality, consumption of alcohol, and all the other practices you city slickers seem to enjoy

That is a  arrogant presumption delivered from your pedestal, an assessment that ignores the fact that i never condoned any of these sins that apparently offend your noble sensibilities 

 

In another instance  after I told you 17 was the age of consent, you decided to focus on age 15, grilling me, trying to elicit a judgmental testimony from me.  But you wouldn't leave it at that. You went off on tangents bringing my adult daughters into the picture as if to shame me for not being appalled by the thought of them being promiscuous. Then - you condescended to forgive me for perhaps not being as depraved as you assumed i am. Last but not least,  you keep referring to my "views" in spite of the fact  i have not  expressed any personal views about this subject.  i have simply provided information as to why, all things considered, American society is not an unnatural repressive one constrained by western values. 

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cynique those statement do not support me be asserting myself as a paragon of virtue.  Using your reasoning I could say the same you, but I won't because I don't believe that to be true.

 

How is saying that morality is relative -- including your perspective -- setting myself as some "paragon of virtue?"

 

Me stating the fact that I, understand your point but just disagree with it, cause for being accused of "Righteous indignation?" in you perspective. How does simple disagreement conjure "indignation?"  I not expressing indignation, nor do I feel it.  This is an emotion that you are perceiving for a reason I don't understand.

 

18 hours ago, Cynique said:

American society is not an unnatural repressive one constrained by western values. 

 

Agan, this is fundamentally a statement that I disagree with.  You can call my disagreement "righteous indignation" or say that I'm no propping myself up as a "paragon of virtue," but none of this will change my belief on this issue.  Indeed hurling types of personal brabs at me just tells me you don't have a very strong argument to support your opinion.

 

They take people, Black ones in particular, and through them onto jail for smoking Marijuana -- a natural plant. This sounds exactly like the actions of an "unnatural repressive" society to me.  If you'd like to dispute this, I'm all eyes, but if you wanna call me more names, don't waste the key stokes...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 @TroyWe obviously are at odds as you defend yourself from the label that i used when defending myself from the one you used to describe me. So this  old lady from a suburb of Chicago who you have decided holds in contempt the  "large swaths of this country that don't agree with abortion, out of wedlock birth, homosexuality, consumption of alcohol, and all the other practices you city slickers seem to enjoy",  will leave you to stew in the resentment  that is the result of your not being able to take what you dish out. 😛 I might add that not only don't you not know anything about my moral compass, but where do you get the information that small town America in more prudish than urban American?  Their populations do just as much dirt as anywhere else in this country, especially in rural parts.  And the so-called religious ones are the biggest offenders.  Where do you think the term "shot gun marriage" originated And the "respectable" middle class are the ones who have abortions to get rid of the  indiscretions that might disgrace the family name. And let's not over the town drunk that is a familiar character.  I can only  assume that the  "Peyton Place" and The Kinsey Report are before your time.  🤔

 

Moving right along, what originally  sparked my input into this discussion, were the  comments being tossed around about the lifestyle of this country not being an environment that is compatible with the natural instincts of African Americans in regard to their sexuality and their affinity for polygamy.   For the umpteenth time, all i am saying is that  adult black people are free to indulge their desires in these areas as long as they don't rape adult females or commit statutory rape against minors under the age of 17.  I also noted that, horny black men with a penchant for variety are free to  keep a bunch of common-law wives under the same roof. And black females of any age are free to procreate as much as they choose.  Taking all of this into consideration was enough for me to argue that this country does not inhibit the natural desires of African Americans. All of this other stuff about hair and colorism and injustice are a different matter. And your marijuana example is really weak inasmuch as this natural plant is not indigenous to Africa, and is no more desired by blacks than whites, and the fact that it is readily available is just another indication that this society is not repressive.   Selling it is a crime that dealers of any color will be arrested for.  Inequity in regard to who gets the stiffest penalties falls under the category of "injustice" not sexual repression.  😬

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cynique

 

Who is to say what's natural? Natural compared to what? It's natural to try and survive. As nature takes its course, however things sort themselves out is natural. Randomness is not unnatural. I continue to embrace the "survival of the fittest" principle and the "it is, what it is" philosophy. The state of the world today is not abnormal; it's is simply a situation called "Life".


Well to start with, nature is that which you don't have to be TRAINED into doing or PUNISHISHED into not doing.

Smoking cigarettes isn't natural, you have FORCE yourself to do it and fight the coughing, nasty taste, and cave in to peer pressure in order to go it.
Eating an orange or banana on the other hand is natural and tastes good and you don't have to be tricked or trained into doing it.

It's as NATURAL for a man to seek multiple mates to copulate with and spread his seed  as it is for you to seek multiple sources of food and store them up for a famine or drought.

Most men had to be TRAINED through religion to be monogamous and PUNISHED for not being monogamous, which means it didn't come natural for them.





What's stopping him from being the head of a household that consists of more than one mate willing to accommodate his desire for variety?

Social pressure....on both me AND my partners.

You....like most....may sit up and CLAIM that we all have the right to do and live as we please but if I were working with you on a job and told you I had 4 wives you'd try to get me fired or at best try to turn every other co-worker against me.

The female relatives of all the women involved with the man of a polyamorous relationship would badger the women  and degrade them for being in that relationship calling them stupid, brainwashed, exploited, ect.....and in many cases would even call law enforcement to find out what can be done legally to break up the relationship and punish that man!

Face it, the only time you'll accept polyamory is when WHITE MEN tell you to accept it.
.....like they did homosexuality.

 

 

 

 

 

in response to you and Pioneer insisting that this society with its white western values is a puritanical one that represses people's natural instincts.


Not only does it represses people's natural instincts, it CORRUPTS them and WARPS them.

Again, the taste of cigarettes isn't one you naturally like....it's an acquired taste that people often have to be TRICKED into accepting.
So they come up with menthols to trick your brain into thinking you're tasting peppermint candy.

 


 

Anybody over 17 is free to engage in sex with anyone they choose, as long as it is mutually agreed upon. They just have to deal with whatever personal consequences ensue from this. But it is not something they are legally forbidden to do. And it's also not against the law for any single female to have a baby. Abortion is more contested than this. When statutory rape enters the picture then the law steps in. This is how it goes in this white western country


You're focused on the LEGAL rules but you're also forgetting the SOCIAL rules that are often even stronger and too often prevents people from acting on what is natural.

Although it's LEGAL, do you think a man can see a 30 or 40 year old woman walking down the street with her boyfriend and proposition her for sex without consequences?

And even though it's legal for him to do so, if there was a fight and the police got involved they would probably accuse the man and not the boyfriend of starting the fight simply by doing that which is natural and legal but still SOCIALLY unacceptable.

 
"Free" means free both legally and socially.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Troy

 

Again, I don't know what is natural, but I suspect that multiple partners, throughout life may be more natural for men than life long monogamy. Of course some brothers can do this without a problem, shoot some Brothers don't ever have to have sex.


Exactly, and I've shared the same observations.

You can go from one end of the spectrum clear to the other.
From the polygamist....to the man who doesn't want sex at all....clear on over to the man who not only likes other men but likes MANY other men, lol.
Nothing applies to everyone 100%.

But what we're talking about are the MAJORITY of men and what applies to them.
I've known very few men who ONLY wanted one woman their entire life.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem to be conflating Pioneer's position with my own.. In any event I was not indignant or resentful.  In fact, I rather enjoyed our exchange and laughed when I read your description of me as the a self appointed "Paragon of virtue." (did I find it funny because it has a grain of truth? 😒)

 

People are simply not the same everywhere. There are places where no alcohol is sold on Sunday and places where prostitution is legal.  I would not live somewhere where I could not buy a cold one on a sunday afternoon.

 

People choose communities that reflect their values.  Some people love living in NYC,  I do not.  It is noisy, filthy, crowded, and expensive.  Others find it filled with life, diversity, sophistication, and swagger.

 

In the area I live in now, filled with gated communities and chain stores, has it issues too, but the trade offs are worth it at this stage of my life.  I don't have to step over the homeless people as I got about my daily business or walk with my head down so I dont step in dog do-do. The likelihood of my being a victim of a crime is virtually nil.

 

Some behavior I would regularly witness in NYC simply not exhibited here. No once have I heard the word nigger uttered in public, not have a seen a mother curse a child out at them them that they are a piece of shit just like their dad.  I have however witness bible study and prayer groups meet in Starbucks and the B&N

 

I've lived in at least 20 places for a year or more and every community is different, and this is largely because of the people.

 

@Pioneer1 I don't think I have ever met a man that only wanted to be with one woman their entire life.  But I was born and raised in NYC 😉

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

were the comments being tossed around about the lifestyle of this country not being an environment that is compatible with the natural instincts of African Americans in regard to their sexuality and their affinity for polygamy. For the umpteenth time, all i am saying is that adult black people are free to indulge their desires in these areas as long as they don't rape adult females or commit statutory rape against minors under the age of 17.



Black people are NOT free to engage in whatever type of sexuality they wish in this nation be it legal OR illegal.

The behavior you're seeing many AfroAmericans exhibit that you may be MISTAKING for freedom are NOT expressions of freedom, but expressions of PERVERSION.

Because they are living in a restrictive oppressive environment that does NOT alllow them to freely practice sexuality the way would naturally and are forced to operate inside the White social framework.....they have historically came up with alternative, sneaky, and often perverse ways to "get around" the rules.

Thus instead of a man openly having several wives like in Africa.
In America he may just have one wife and a bunch of girlfriends.

But what makes it perverse is in Africa he would be forced to support all of his wives and his children by them, but in America he has little obligation to do so except if the courts get involved and try to force him to.

 

 

 




Troy

 

In the area I live in now, filled with gated communities and chain stores, has it issues too, but the trade offs are worth it at this stage of my life.  I don't have to step over the homeless people as I got about my daily business or walk with my head down so I dont step in dog do-do. The likelihood of my being a victim of a crime is virtually nil.

 

Some behavior I would regularly witness in NYC simply not exhibited here. No once have I heard the word nigger uttered in public, not have a seen a mother curse a child out at them them that they are a piece of shit just like their dad.  I have however witness bible study and prayer groups meet in Starbucks and the B&N

 

 

Man....where do YOU  live?
Lol, Mayberry from the Andy Griffith Show???

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cynique, of course we are cool.  We can disagree from time to and be cool.  If you were 40 years younger and single, I absolutely would be sweating you for your number 😍 I have nothing but the highest regard for you.

 

@Pioneer1 relative to where i grew up I absolutely live in Mayberry.  I often leave my doors unlocked, and have left my garage door open all day long without being cleaned out. Now I don't leave my garage door open deliberately -- sometimes I just forget, but opportunistic crime just does not seem to occur here. 

 

I can leave my laptop on a table in the B&N go upstairs to the men's room and the laptop will still be there -- try that in NYC.  These may sound like trivial examples, but I point them out because coming from a city like New York you always have to have your guard up which creates a constant of stress that you don't realize you have until you don't have it anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Troy

If you were 40 years younger and single, I absolutely would be sweating you for your number 😍 I have nothing but the highest regard for you.


:P Damn.....lol.

Come on man, why she gotta be 40 years younger before you tried to get up on it ?????

Why not just 30 or 20 years younger???
That would STILL put her at around 50 or 60!

 


Lol.....
I don't know about where YOU live but I've been seeing some BAD ass 60+ year old women walking around in sun-dresses and sandals in the Michigan heat this summer!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black people are NOT free to engage in whatever type of sexuality they wish in this nation be it legal OR illegal.

The behavior you're seeing many AfroAmericans exhibit that you may be MISTAKING for freedom are NOT expressions of freedom, but expressions of PERVERSION.

@Pioneer1 i don't agree with that ambiguous argument.  Just because you contradict my statement, doesn't mean you've disproved it.  You simply offered your opposing point of view  in which, as usual,  you overstep your bounds as a self-appointed authority on African Americans.  Or are you even an authority of what life in Africa is or was like. You provide nothing to support what you set forth as facts, and your use of the word "perversion"  can be applied to your own  ideas of how blacks should live in American society because  what's "normal" to one person is "abnormal" to another.  

19 hours ago, Cynique said:

...adult black people are free to indulge their desires in these areas as long as they don't rape adult females or commit statutory rape against minors under the age of 17.  I also noted that, horny black men with a penchant for variety are free to  keep a bunch of common-law wives under the same roof. And black females of any age are free to procreate as much as they choose. 

What i have stated above is an objective and accurate description, free of editorializing and pouting. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Troy said:

People are simply not the same everywhere. There are places where no alcohol is sold on Sunday and places where prostitution is legal.  I would not live somewhere where I could not buy a cold one on a sunday afternoon.

Beer or a prostitute..? 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/13/2018 at 10:55 AM, Troy said:

 

@Pioneer1 I don't think I have ever met a man that only wanted to be with one woman their entire life.  But I was born and raised in NYC

I have. Men who don't aren't cultivating the garden properly. So the grass is free greeener.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Delano, honestly I have met Brothers like this too.  They may say they were a virgin when they got married and have never had a desire to be with anyone else, but one can never really know the truth...  In any case, I believe this is very rare. 

 

Given the actual behavior of people versus what they say, I tend to doubt very few men only want one sexual partner for their entire life.  Again they may say this, perhaps to conform to their religious values, but actual behavior is usually different.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some anecdotal evidence that can be taken into consideration.  Back in the early '80s I belonged to a social club made up of about 10 girlfriends who were either childhood pals or college chums. We met once and month to eat and greet and gossip.  Men always ended up being the topic of our juicy conversation. 

 

This group was a  good cross section of married black sistas and the men in our lives were not all cut from the same cloth.  A couple of the women complained about their husbands being dead beats who once they go married  seemed to have lost interest in sex.  Others claimed that their mates wanted it all the time. Still others said they sex lives were adequate, with 2 or 3 times a week being the norm. One woman shared her experiences with a stalker who only had eyes for her and wouldn't leave her alone til he finally gave up.  None suspected that their mates were straying, and a couple of the more adventurous one confessed that if their husband cheated on them, they would use this as an excuse to cheat on him.    What was notable was that we women had all hooked up with men who were mostly content to stay with one woman. A couple did get divorced later on but adultery was not the reason.  

 

The black population  according to the latest census was estimated at about 47, 000, 000 and to say that black males run the gamut from womanizers to faithful husbands would seem to be a reasonable deduction.  Of course all men have eyes for appealing women, but many have enough control to weigh their options as to what's in their own best interest and choose to look but not touch.  A study showed that married men live longer than single ones.  That's something to think about.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Troy said:

@Delano, honestly I have met Brothers like this too.  They may say they were a virgin when they got married and have never had a desire to be with anyone else, but one can never really know the truth...  In any case, I believe this is very rare

On 8/13/2018 at 10:55 AM, Troy said:

 I don't think I have ever met a man that only wanted to be with one woman their entire life.

Will the fake Troy sit down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Delano always go with the last thing I wrote. Have you never changed your mind or corrected an mistake?

 

After I made that first post i recalled a brother that I met that claimed to be virgin when he got married. I considered not sharing but then I felt it would be less than honest.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...