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JAY Z & the KALIEF BROWDER STORY

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JAY Z & the KALIEF BROWDER STORY

 

 

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I never keyed in on this story about Kalief Crowder until I began to research about Jay Z and Beyonce’s sacrifices in their bringing forth the Trayvon Martin Story. But, because this story about Kalief maybe regarded as ‘old news’ in this community and based on what has been aired, however, I would like to take a hard-right turn though and ask some questions and make some conclusions that may lead to solutions not yet considered in this case and the many other cases being reviewed in America on this same wise. In light of this story too, it seems that America would be a system that rewards bad behavior on many levels and hopefully, the deeper layers of this story will soon manifest and present some serious issues with this system that have been downplayed and accepted as the norm and issues that could help to prevent this kind of torture that has been occurring against our people on a continual basis. This young man, Kalief Browder, has a story that would also be just as compelling as all of the other young Black men and older men who have been sacrificed in this system. Nevertheless, my deep gratitude does go out to Jay Z and Harvey Weinstein for offering up their sacrifices to get these stories out and attempt to put them in the forefront of the worlds’ consciousness. Because Kalief’s story was so put together like a maze though, it took me many hours to understand. Also, even though this story was presented in depth, however, there still seems to remain many common gaps in Kalief’s story, just as the stories of the many other Black Americans who have been wrongfully charged with crimes that they were never proven to have committed. So, in my summary, I hope to highlight some deeper issues about this case and fill in some other gaps that seem to be deliberately blotted out in some reports but presented in others and, in so doing, reveal how this gorgeous young man, with such a pretty clean youthful appearance was completely exploited by the system and many people all the way to the end.

 

Furthermore, it was not until I looked at the AALBC site and read a post about search engines that I stumbled across the Six Part Series of Time~The Kalief Browder Story, on the Bing search engine, a series that was created by Julia Willoughby-Nason and co-produced by Jay Z that really caused me to see a more better picture behind this child’s sufferings. It is so amazing to me too, that Kalief’s hell began in 2010 during the first term of former President Barack Obama and two years before Trayvon Martin had been gunned down. Kalief was arrested and imprisoned in the infamous Rikers Island at the age of sixteen (16) for three (3) years and for an alleged crime of stealing a backpack that eventually was never proven. He was held in solitary confinement for two years, starved at times and he went through torture that was caught on camera. He was given plea offers that he rejected and soon the charges were dropped but eventually, and after he was released from prison, he committed suicide. And just as one of the most incredible dynamic women I have ever come across, Ms. Michelle Alexander, and author of ‘the New Jim Crow’ stated in this docu-series, Kalief’s experience would not be unique, but nevertheless compelling. It grips me especially because it occurs during a time when Black America had hope in the presidency of Barack Obama that there would be a positive ‘Change’ for us as this was his presidential platform.

 

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Michelle Alexander, author of THE NEW JIM CROW

 

I will start with Kalief’s mother. Her name was not given but, Kalief was taken from her at birth byway of the Child Protective Services because it was said that cocaine or some type of drug was found in her system. So Kalief was born into the system and like him, the other two older sons that this woman gave birth to was also taken from her at birth. They were put into the foster care program and given to a woman named Vernita Crowder. Now the series does revolve around both Kalief and Vernita. When Vernita was in her mid to late forties (40+), she said she had a heart attack in 2000. But, after this time, however, she and her husband began to be foster parents and she said that for the fifteen (15) years that she had been a foster parent, she had about thirty foster kids. She had another heart attack in 2007 when she was about fifty-two (52) years old. Vernita initially adopted three Hispanic-looking children, Akeem, Nicole, and Raheem and then later, she adopted the three Black American brothers, Kamal, Deione, and Kalief, and she stated that she had seven children altogether. Now in several interviews reporters asks Kalief later when he was released had he any prior convictions and he said no. But in the docu-series it turns out that was a false statement. Because the reporters failed to do proper research prior to interviews, Kalief was put into a position in which he made statements without his attorney present that subjected his credibility to totally unfair scrutiny. So, prior to Kalief’s arrest for an allege robbery though, he was arrested for joy riding in a stolen BREAD TRUCK with a friend. He was convicted of a felony for this crime and also given a probationary period. Later it also came out in a deposition hearing that Kalief began to be associated with a gang before his arrest and tattooed his Blood name, SPADE, on his arm. So, in 2010 at the age of sixteen (16) as he and a friend were walking home from a party one night, the police drove up and approached them. Kalief was identified that night by the alleged victim in the police car, a man originally from Mexico and he alleged that Kalief had jumped him and stolen his backpack two week prior. Kalief was then handcuffed and taken down to precinct 48 and later booked and sent to Riker’s Island. So now, here follows my first set of hard questions that seemingly people don’t want to ask:

 

*Was there another obvious reason why Kalief was arrested and imprisoned for three (3) years for an alleged crime other than ‘the system failed’? In other words; Could there be another motive and deliberate intent to imprison Kalief without ‘Due Process’ that was orchestrated by way of certain people in high places? Obviously, the punish of being imprisoned for three years would not even fit the crime even if Kalief were proven to have stolen a backpack!

 

*Because Vernita was not working on a job outside of her home, how was she not able to account for the whereabouts of her six (6) children? How can any mother keep up with six kids and lead a normal life? What was her motive to become a foster parent in her forties and especially when after she had a heart attack? Did she have a congenital heart disease? Why would her health NOT be an issue with the Social Services Department when she was approved to become a foster parent? Why did not any documentary or report ever explain why Vernita had no children of her own or disclose this issue if she did give birth to children? Why does America attack Black American women for having many children and then gloss over this issue about Vernita having six foster children in this story about Kalief? It seems as though Kalief was set up for failure from the start of his life.

 

The investigative reporters for the Jay Z production found out more details. The Mexican man was working at a restaurant and he told his brother what happened, and his brother called the police and asked them to check the surveillance camera, but he said the police did not follow up completely. He said that his brother, the alleged victim, was so traumatized by the experience that he left America and took a flight back to Mexico, and so he left the country and therefore, Kalief was held in prison even though the very allege victim was gone out of the country. And so, this alleged crime could never even become a conviction, but the docu-series brought out that the prosecution continued to make it appear, falsely, that they had contact with the witness even though the brother stated that in Mexico, his brother had no phone or internet accessible. Meanwhile, the brother also said the prosecution only called a few times before his brother left the States and moved to a remote area in Mexico. They knew that his brother had left the country, nevertheless, they continued to tell the courts that they had the witness. Eventually, the court attempted to coerce Kalief to plead that he was guilty to a felony, but he rejected the plea. Kalief was made aware of the pitfalls of having a felony due to his older adoptive brother Akeem who had been arrested, convicted, and pled guilty to a felony charge for which he served time.

 

Akeem was pursued and dubbed, THE BRONX RAPIST and helicopters at one point flew over Vernita’s house and she underwent a media storm when Akeem was arrested. Furthermore, Akeem denied certain aspects of this charge, but he also said during the docu-series, that he was caught one day in high school at a time when a young girl was performing oral sex to him. So eventually, Akeem pled guilty to one count of sodomy which would be a felony and he served time in a jail for three months and then in prison for five months. So Kalief refused to accept a plea bargain and continued to claim his innocence. Finally, after three (3) years of being imprisoned at Rikers, the charges were dropped and Kalief was released and was only given a metro card. Because of the anguish he continued to have as a result of being abused in prison, one day, Akeem called an attorney, Mr. Paul Prestia, and he became passionate about Kalief’s case and filed a 20-million-dollar lawsuit against New York on behalf of Kalief. And, Kalief’s attorney, Paul, sought media attention and this was how the world began to hear about Kalief’s story. Kalief was aired on many shows. Eventually, he went back to school and obtained a GED and later enrolled and began to attend the Bronx Community College. But even after all of the support Kalief was given, it became too much for this child and eventually he took his life. Kalief began to be attacked by others in his community due to the media attention and at one point, he was shot in the stomach and then at another time, he was stabbed in the face. Yet at another time, he and his brother were faced with another conflict in his community in the Bronx and it would be during this time, that he was again arrested and given a court date appearance. Most of the reports and videos almost completely omit the real reasons behind why Kalief chose to take his own life and some even make it seem that it was an abrupt decision that Kalief had made due to his mental instability. Even Vernita continually commented that she had no idea of Kalief’s predicament that led him to commit suicide other than his constant statements of being mentality imbalanced. But however, the truth would be obvious in lieu of the facts that have been shadily presented.

 

Because of the torture Kalief underwent while being incarcerated, on several occasions he attempted to commit suicide. And after he was released, he was admitted for psychiatric help and also, was prescribed strong medication. Kalief was told that if he did not take his medication, he would not be able to go home and so, most reports divert the truth with this aspect of Kalief. However, even though Kalief was overwhelmed by this horrific abuse by this system, as a matter of observation, he was highly intellectual and was able to express himself extremely well in the media. To say that he was extraordinary would be an understatement. Therefore, ultimately and except for his attorney Paul, just about everybody close to Kalief failed him. Seemingly, due to the circumstances at that time of his death, Kalief’s decision to take his life was not an irrational one. Even though he was able to stand his ground in Rikers, however, when he was faced with so much exploitation, greed and hate in society, and even though he reached out constantly for help, he was destroyed by those adults who should have shielded him. And so, the real truth that led to the death of Kalief was because in April of 2015, he was arrested, charged with a misdemeanor, and summoned to appear in court a few days prior to his death. Previously one evening, Kalief and his brother Kamal had become involved in an altercation, and the police were called and then apprehended both brothers. During the scene, it was later said by Kamal, that the two brothers hugged each other tightly and would not let each other go, and so, they were arrested for resisting arrest, handcuffed and jailed. After their release, they were to appear in court on June 10, 2015 but this led Kalief to take his own life on June 6, 2015 at the age of 22. On that day, Kalief took a cord and hung himself in his bedroom while his mother Vernita was downstairs.  In addition, Kalief realized that the interrogation he endured in the deposition required due to the lawsuit filed, that the state tried to destroy him and had no intentions for him to win his suit. His was drilled and asked a barrage of questions about his character from his childhood upwards and made to feel as if he was responsible for the mistakes he made as a child and, wrong for seeking restitution for being imprisoned for three years on an allegation that the state could never even prove. Obviously, Kalief saw what he believed to be a pattern in that after his lawsuit was underway, and then arrested, he felt that he would become railroaded back into the system and then prison. Even though he desperately tried to overcome horrible obstacles, he soon saw no escape on earth. So, he made a decision to make his own escape. Kalief was born in 1993 into a world that never gave him a chance to thrive, so he made is exit. And then about a year and four months later, Vernita died of a heart attack.

 

Prior to Vernita’s death too, she also filed lawsuits for the wrongful death of Kalief and during this interim, her now estranged husband decided that he wanted to pursue Vernita and wanted compensation from the lawsuits. So he obtained a lawyer to file on his behalf. When Kalief was first arrested, a bail was initially set at $10,000 but then it was downgraded to $3000.00. At this point, Vernita’s estranged husband had abandoned her long before this time and even though he was retired and had money, he did not give Vernita any money to bail Kalief out of jail. The bond was set at $900.00 but Vernita did not have it. Eventually, she asked a neighbor and came up with the bond, but however, when she went to the bail bondsman to have the money processed, she was surprisingly told the bond was denied because Kalief had a previous conviction, a felony charge for joy riding in the bread truck.  So then, the courts changed their stance and said that Kalief had violated his probation of his felony conviction when he was arrested for the alleged robbery of a backpack. So therefore, Kalief remained in Rikers for that three year period and endured vicious and brutal beatings byway of other inmates, most of whom were Black like him, and also beatings byway of certain security guards. He was only 155 pounds and stood about 5’5” yet, he was brutally beaten by full grown men, prison guards and some of them also encouraged the beatings byway of other inmates. In an incident when Kalief attempted suicide, the guards watched and then after he dangled, they cut him down and beat him brutally and Kalief ran out into the hallway to be seen on the surveillance cameras. Therefore, the reality of possibly being forced back into prison led Kalief to take his own life. After Vernita filed lawsuit for the wrongful death of Kalief, her estranged husband tormented her and began proceedings to sale the house that she lived in for thirty (30) years. Finally, a few days after meeting with Jay Z about this docu-series, Vernita had a heart attack and on October 14, 2016, she passed away. Three days later her estranged husband had sold the house and all five of the surviving adopted children had to move out. Now, are another set ofhard-questionsthat has led me to make my brief conclusions on this heart rendering story of Kalief and I pose these questions to Black African American Descendants of Slaves:

 

*If you were an upper-class Nigerian, would you agree to young Nigerian upper class children being raised by another culture in Africa just because of both cultures being darker skinned African peoples?

*If you were a Moroccan, would you agree to Moroccan children being raised up by another culture in Africa such as Ghanians just because of both cultures being in Africa?

*If you were an Arab, would you agree to Arab children of your tribe and culture being raised up in a European or Chinese culture?

*What makes it acceptable for Black African American children to be legally fostered out, adopted, and put under the parentage of someone of another culture just because they are famous, Brown Hispanic or Black American from perhaps Brazil (Brazilian American) or from Mexico (Mexican American) or etc.?

 

It would not be my individual responsibility to solve America’s problem for the rape and miseducation of my people, but, to allow this American government and society to shift the burden on Black African American Descendants of Slaves (BAADOS)  to solve the problems with the foster care program is a great deception. European Americans know their origins, Asian Americans know their origins, and even Nigerian African Americans may know their origins, but BAADOS are a product of the Transatlantic Slave Ship Trade and thus, many of us began our existence here in America and are a complete product of this system. This Democracy and Republic has become our god and we have no other higher power. Many other cultures around the world are born and taught the ways of their people, their culture and their Birth Right (heritage) through formal processes, but we over here in the States are expected to attach our allegiance to America only. Therefore, wouldn’t that cause the flaws in this system to be based on these premises? But however, for Black Americans to not speak out about Black children being deprived of their culture and ancestral origins would be our responsibility as well. Would people from Japan agree to Japanese children being raised up by Arabs and to be taught by Arabs the Japanese culture? Would Russian people today agree to Black American DOS raising Russian children and teaching them the Russian culture and heritage? Only as slaves held captive within the European cultures had we been allowed to nurture White American’s children. This kind of rape of the mind, soul, and spirit of our children of their culture should be formally addressed by this system with adequate solutions.

 

When we commonly accept Black mothers as being worthless, justify them being bereaved of their own biological children, view this earthly fate as being solely their own fault, as being innately a bad person and, offer no solution to address to our government then, are we not a part of the system that has thrown the towel in on our own women? When has it been normal for a mother to want to carry a baby just to get rid of it after birth? Kalief’s mother had three gorgeous sons that were given incredible names of which two are names that link them to African origins; KAMAL [ie. KHAM-AL], DEIONE, and KALIPH [ie. Kalief]. Howbeit, like Kalief, so many Black children are born to be abused by the system from the cradle to the grave. Many Black children are born and conditioned from birth to abuse other Black people and are encouraged to show deviant behaviors that inevitably lead them into being accused, convicted, and imprisoned. The states seem to avoid spending tax money on Black children like Kalief and this too may be the underlying motivation behind the fate of Kalief as well. He was not even allowed state funding to even have a trial! When children age out of the welfare system, their caretakers stop getting those paychecks. So, many of our young adults and even parents or foster parents become viewed as worthless consumers—not producers and thus a financial burden on the tax system. So, the next step may be the prison system for many Black youth therefore, would this be another reason why Kalief may have begun to believe that the state had no intentions of making financial compensations for his imprisonment?

 

Our Black American youth are disconnected from their birth parents on a high percentage and designed to portray negative behavior and then be rewarded for this kind of bad behavior—TEMPORARILY. Soon many of them run into further conflicts—relationship conflicts—that lead them into the court system and then prison. And again, this process began at birth. Why are Black women, the nurtures for our culture, condemned to be all that bad in that they seem to have no adequate defense? Why do many Black women submit to being in abusive environments and then react aggressively defensive continually, even at times towards our own children to the point, we are cut off? When Black Americans continue to forget that we, as Descendants of Slaves, are actually ‘Descendants of SLAVE CHILDREN’ then, are we in condemnation of our own selves and have excused this government for their lack of accountability to our being completely cut off from knowing our true origins and cultures from the Motherland? If a Black child has been fostered out to be nurtured under another culture, that child’s life is cut off from his or her natural humanity. That is a form of Human Sacrifice. Have we not been raped of our culture and our heritage? Kalief believed he was cursed but why did not anyone explain to him that it would actually be the opposite in that the behaviors of people acting against him and exploiting him for financial gain in this society were cursed? Hindsight may have led some people to justify Kalief’s false imprisonment because the signs were already present at the time of his second arrest that his future would be bleak as he was free to associate with gangs and was not doing well in school. So, outwardly the eradication of Solitary Confinement for young teenagers 16 and 17 years old due to Kalief’s story may be a great victory but, inwardly, could this also be viewed as just a band aide for a bigger problem; the continual incarceration and captivity of Black Americans? Right there in New York, we have been made to anguish over the horrors of the destruction of the Twin Towers of the World Trade Centers, but on the other hand, we have been blinded to the presence of the infamous prison systems in that same region that many BAADOS are forced to reside in and are the products of the greatest trade commodity in America that led to the trade foundation upon which this powerful system was built upon.

 

I have researched and found some brief you tube videos about this story on google search engine. But afterwards, I actually found the entire series that was later completed and aired in 2017 on the Bing search engine. So, I have selected a few of the brief videos to share here and also the entire six-part series that features Ms. Michelle Alexander and many other activist who share their passionate viewpoints in the life of this amazing and beautiful young man, the late Kalief Browder.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85EzySEBQo4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EZvKuW6yT0

 

 

 

 

Pt 1 THE SYSTEM

p2 THE ISLAND

p3 THE BING

p4 THE WITNESS

P5—Injustice for All

P6 THE AFTERLIFE

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Kalief+Browder+Part+3&&view=detail&mid=15B7A5CDE4D23C31B69E15B7A5CDE4D23C31B69E&&FORM=VRDGAR

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Kalief+Browder+Part+3&&view=detail&mid=8AF456746BDB5720F7938AF456746BDB5720F793&rvsmid=15B7A5CDE4D23C31B69E15B7A5CDE4D23C31B69E&FORM=VDRVRV

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Kalief+Browder+Part+3&&view=detail&mid=4848980B7EB2D07848334848980B7EB2D0784833&&FORM=VDRVRV

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Kalief+Browder+Part+3&&view=detail&mid=E78C04726EF557F6BFB5E78C04726EF557F6BFB5&&FORM=VDRVRV

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Kalief+Browder+Part+3&&view=detail&mid=F08DAA8E53B4E9A9F2D0F08DAA8E53B4E9A9F2D0&&FORM=VDRVRV

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Kalief+Browder+Part+3&&view=detail&mid=D8587FA996742380EE45D8587FA996742380EE45&&FORM=VDRVRV

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Crowder

 

@Troy I tried to edit this spelling error but when I clicked 'edit', a screen came up that said ACCESS DENIED...GO DADDY...

 

 

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@Chevdove that sounds like the sites overly aggressive firewall.  Were you attempted to edit the post using a device on a network different from the one which it was originally posted?  Please try again and send me a screen shot of the message yiou are getting.  You can use this service:https://snag.gy/ to send the screen shot.

 

Thanks

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@Troy I don't know if you can see the file I uploaded but if you can, that would be the screen that popped up when I tried to edit this post.

I am not sure how to notify you on the link you provided. 

1aaaaaaaaa.png

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I heard about this story a while back on P.O.V.

Is the first name correct?


It's very sad, but it's only one of MANY examples of how the criminal justice system as well as the mental health system has not only failed the urban AfroAmerican community, but it also shows how short-sighted and selfish so many well to do AfroAmericans are.

There are thousands of wealthy, educated, and powerful AfroAmericans in the New York area who could actually DO SOMETHING about the inhumane conditions in Rikers and other facilities there, but they refuse to even get involved.
They allow these "ethnic" White police officers, lawyers, and corrections officers do whatever the hell they want to do and keep silent.....so I blame them even more.

 

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yeah poor,  often innocent, people languish in jail sometimes for years awaiting trial.  uffer the most dehumanizing aspects if jail including beatings and rape raped because they don't have a few hundred dollars for bail...

 

@Chevdove i'm beginning to think this fire wall was more of a headache than a benefit.  I don't know why trying to edit  post you already made would trigger this.  Would you mind just leaving the file unedited?  

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Most people don't understand that under our system JAIL isn't supposed to be a place of punishment.
That's what PRISON is for.

Jail is only supposed to be a place of BRIEF confinement until you have your trial and if you are innocent you go free and if found guilty you await your sentencing.

But so many people have been filling up the jails that it's caused the system to be backed up and people are having their constitutional rights to a "speedy" trial violated by having to spend such a long time in jail.
Not to mention the conditions OF most jails.

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On 8/2/2018 at 11:53 PM, Troy said:

Would you mind just leaving the file unedited?  

 

@TroyOkay, that is fine, I will leave it. 

On 8/2/2018 at 8:06 PM, Pioneer1 said:

.so I blame them even more

 

@Pioneer1 Me too. I do blame them even more. ONe of the judges on this case was actually a Black woman. 

And yes, this is what Michele Alexander said too, in that there are a lot of cases like this, but it doesn't matter to me if it one or many; something needs to be done about this because it is unfair to say the least. This is an attack on the younger generation. 

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Chev


Michelle Alexander is my girl.
She articulately breaks down in her book (The New Jim Crow) exactly how racists have historically CONSPIRED (your favorite word Cynique...lol) to re-enslaved Black people through the criminal justice system.

If you're in the mood for entertainment, check out this outrageous interview she did with Jesse Lee Peterson:

 


I call her a REAL lady, a lot of women would have cussed Jesse out after the first 5 minutes.
But toward the end Michelle could barely keep her composure with that clown...lol.

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Yeah Jesse, had his mind made up and simply was not interested in listening to or understanding what Michelle had to say. @Pioneer1 I've actually felt this way with you on a number of occasions.  But I'm sure you'll say the feeling is mutual 😉

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On 8/6/2018 at 1:27 PM, Troy said:

Yeah Jesse, had his mind made up and simply was not interested in listening to or understanding what Michelle had to say

 

Yes, it did seem like he just tuned her out because his mind was made up and so, it's as if he planned to bring her on his show just to try to discredit her. He didn't even give her a chance. What a bully.

On 8/5/2018 at 12:24 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I call her a REAL lady, a lot of women would have cussed Jesse out after the first 5 minutes.

 

WHEW! You are probably right. You know, I remember him way back on Donahue show and other forums. He was even on a panel once, with Michele Alexander but it seems that all of a sudden, he lost his mind; either that or he was lying in wait until he got the chance to do what he really wanted to do all along and throw down AfroAmerican people. I can't believe him. I was struck when he spoke against Sabrina Fulton's child like that. Evil. What an evil thing to do. Anyway, i don't want to dwell on him too much, because, I don't believe he is worth it. Man!

 

In actuality, I understand the points he brings out, but he is arguing under the house so-to-speak. He speaks about the negative aspect of Black Americans, but does not deal with the accountability of this American government. He says that Black men who are raised by single Black women do not want to work; what a lie. 

He says that Black Americans are Morally Bankrupt and that we are accountable for this, however, there is no one on this earth under a government that is NOT educated and does well. We have been raped of our identity and etc. 

 

Speaking of myself, I am not a single Black mother, but I know there are so many single mothers out there that are hurting and struggling; they don't need this kind of abuse. Reproduction is a part of being human. Jesse Lee is attacking a person's human rights just because they are Black women and a product of slavery and mind conditioning, abandonement and etc. Young mothers need support from this government as well as the Black community. Yes, there should be acountability and there are a lot of loose women that just dont care, but then, there are also so many victims. I am so grateful so see Michele Alexander speaking out. She is so awesome.  

 

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Troy

I HOPE you aren't comparing me to Jesse Lee....lol.

It's one thing to occasionaly misunderstand where a person is coming from, it's quite another to purposely antagonize others to the point they become speechless and in shock like Jesse does.
Are you telling me I've said things that left you breathless and immobile?

 

 

 

 

 

Chev

What Jesse did in that particular interview was MILD compared to his usual performance.

Believe it or not he KNOWS how to be intelligent and get along with people when he wants to, he purposely does with the Black people he interviews for contemptuous purposes.

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6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

What Jesse did in that particular interview was MILD compared to his usual performance.

 

really?

 

That's scary.

 

I started to listen to one 'suggested' video after his interview with Ms. Alexander. I started to listen to a man named 'the Irritated Genei' but after only a few seconds, when I realized the subject, I quickly stopped. Thanks for the warning. I use to like Jesse, but I think he went off the rails.  

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On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:11 AM, Chevdove said:

 

really?

 

That's scary.

 

I started to listen to one 'suggested' video after his interview with Ms. Alexander. I started to listen to a man named 'the Irritated Genei' but after only a few seconds, when I realized the subject, I quickly stopped. Thanks for the warning. I use to like Jesse, but I think he went off the rails.  


When you said you used to like Jesse....

Lol..are you talking about Jesse Lee Peterson or Jesse Jackson?


 

 


Troy

I KNEW you were going to bring up the "race" topic as an example.
You just refuse to let that go.

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3 hours ago, Troy said:

you asked Brother LOL!

 

Lol Now I'm being nosy...

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

are you talking about Jesse Lee Peterson or Jesse Jackson?

 

Well, Jesse Jackson has been getting on my nerves too, lately. 

 

 

 

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@Chevdove you can run a search on our very protracted and contentious conversations on "race." But, in a nutshell, despite all of the science to the contrary @Pioneer1 believes that there are  multiple human races based upon the different phenotypes you are familiar with.  

 

Like Michelle Alexander, I exhibited a prodigious level of restraint and patience despite a deluge of ignorance and an onslaught of misinformation. Like the more famous Michelle said, when Pioneer goes low you go high 🙂

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@Troy The subject of 'race' is very difficult for me to understand. No matter how hard I try, I don't understand the signficance of the term 'racial construct' or race as it is defined today as oppose to long ago, when this term apparently did not exist. 

 

And, basing 'race' on phenotype, well, that is confusing. To add to this point too, America's system of basing 'race' doesn't help at all! 

 

 

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@Chevdove, in another post you mentioned other races of humans like the Denisovans.  They were a difference race of people.  But the so called white man and Black man are the same race, Sapiens -- despite the claims of racists. That is basically it.

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15 hours ago, Troy said:

n another post you mentioned other races of humans like the Denisovans.  They were a difference race of people.  But the so called white man and Black man are the same race, Sapiens -- despite the claims of racists. That is basically it.

 

Yes, but again, I actually don't understand that term 'race' as it applies to anything. So I try to remember to use quotation marks when I use this term. 

 

You say that the 'so-called white man and Black man are the same race and for now, I just don't have a problem with your stance' but, I do consider the fact that the people that run powerful governments have set the standard no matter what we believe.  European people today who dominate this system define their system based on differientiating based on "the White European race'" and the "Black African 'race'".  In ancient times, other systems defined their governments in certain ways and based on Colorism in many regards. So even though mankind came from a certain origin, most of the big governments run by certain people made a difference no matter what origin we come from and so, how can this be ignored especially if Black and darker skinned people of African descent seemed to be the ones the most oppressed and for thousands upon thousands of years?  I feel like this; If this history is unavoidable and we still today are compelled to be defined by these basis then, the issue of our origins as 'a oneness' doesn't matter now. Based upon how certain cultures have been defined over the years becomes almost like a defense now, a basis to which may be used to have a voice against White Supremacy. We can't force White people to accept that we all came from 'the same race'? So, if they want to be viewed as a distinct 'race' apart from 'Blacks' then what can we do? 

 

Now, I will say this in regards to my research on the DENISOVANS. My research reveals that based on the DNA analysis and the Genome Project, it is a fact that the Neanderthal and the Denisovan have a Common Ancestor. So, this is what I believe too. I believe that you are absolutely right in that at one point, one distant point in time, the White man and Black man are the same 'race', so you don't have to convince me! 

 

Scientist do say that the Neanderthals are indeed, Denisovans at one point and so before the Denisovans became extinct they must have lived contemporaneously when the Neanderthals exhisted too. But there is a very long gap too, when the Denisovans disappeared and the Neanderthals inhabited this planet...alone... without the presence of the Denisovans. So then, what happened to the Denisovans!? I have an opinion about this... 

 

 

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@Chevdove, I really should not have used race I should have used species.

 

The crux of my argument with Pioneer had to do with me asserting what the scientific community has discovered, a conclusively paid to rest after sequencing the human genome, that there is no scientific basis for race.

 

An African can have more in common, genetically, with a European than another African.  African, the birthplace of humanity is a large continent and has more genetic diversity than the rest of the earth combined

 

Obviously racism exists -- indeed it is why I run this site -- but again racism has no basis in science. Of course facts and science will not convince racists to change their views.  But over time this backward thinking will die out on its own.

 

Saying that Americans have been the most oppressed for "thousands upon thousands of years" is a gross exaggeration don't you think?

 

All the other species of man have died out.  Another 4 billions years from now Earth will be an entirely place.  If we survive, we will evolve into something other species --  perhaps something completely unrecognizable, but it is much more likely we'll just go the way of he Neanderthal and Denisovans.

 

 

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Troy

 

Like the more famous Michelle said, when Pioneer goes low you go high


What Michelle forgot to tell you is if you go too high your'e liable to get socked in the nuts....lol.
 

 

 

 


Chev

 

The subject of 'race' is very difficult for me to understand. No matter how hard I try, I don't understand the signficance of the term 'racial construct' or race as it is defined today as oppose to long ago, when this term apparently did not exist.

And, basing 'race' on phenotype, well, that is confusing. To add to this point too, America's system of basing 'race' doesn't help at all!

 

Well let me see if I can help you make sense of it.......


RACE is actually real.
Yes it's a construct....but it's a real one that is based on genetic reality.

Race is simply a way to catagorize people.....just like sex is.

Just like you have male and female sexes.....you have African, Native American, Caucasian, ect.. races.


The reason why it seems so confusing is because White Supremacists keep CHANGING the names and definitions of the races over and over again to keep you confused.
They change it over time and they change it from one nation to the next instead of agreeing on one set definition.
This is done PURPOSELY to keep you confused.

The same person who is consided "Black" in America may be considered simply a "dark skinned Puerto Rican" in Puerto Rico.

You have very dark skinned Ethiopians and Indians who come to America but are classified as "White" because of their national origins despite their looks.

This is all done to confuse people about race.
But it doesn't mean that the differences don't indeed exist.

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15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

What Michelle forgot to tell you is if you go too high your'e liable to get socked in the nuts....lol.

 

True dat!

 

15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Yes it's a construct....but it's a real one that is based on genetic reality.

 

No; this is a contradiction.

 

15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Race is simply a way to catagorize people.....just like sex is.

 

Yes race is a way to categorize people, but it is not like sex which is actually genetically determined.

 

The way we use race changes over time and differs across cultures.  Even the U.S. census uses different terms to describe the same people every decade. The term is confusing because it is purely arbitrary. 

 

If there were a genetic test for race, we could just test everyone for their race, the way we test for blood type, but as previously stated this is not possible.

 

 

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Troy

Are you saying that constructs are NOT reality?

 

 


 

Yes race is a way to categorize people, but it is not like sex which is actually genetically determined.


Race is just as genetically based as sex.

Just like a penis, testicles, and ovaries are physical characteristics of sex......dark skin, kinky hair, blue eyes, slant eyes and other characteristics that are used to determine a person's race are based on their GENES.

Infact, race is MORE genetic and reliable than sex because you never know what sex a baby may turn out but a couple pretty much can count on the race of a baby being the same as theirs.....lol.



And you're correct that the way we USE race changes over time, but RACE ITSELF doesn't.

The Nubians are dark skinned, dark eyed, and kinky haired 3000 years ago and they STILL are today.
The Germanic people were white skinned, blue eyed, and straight blonde haired 3000 years ago and they STILL are today.

It's not the reality of RACE that keeps changing, it's our understanding of it.

 

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Are you saying that constructs are NOT reality?

 

LOL! Here we go! @Pioneer1, man made constructs like race have no basis in genetics.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Race is just as genetically based as sex.

 

No man, it is not. We are talking high school biology here.  But it is not your fault I did not learn this in school either.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Just like a penis, testicles, and ovaries are physical characteristics of sex......dark skin, kinky hair, blue eyes, slant eyes and other characteristics that are used to determine a person's race are based on their GENES.

 

Again, no. There is a chromosome or set of genes which allows us to conclusively identify one's gender.  There is no chromosome or set of gene one can use to identify one's race. If you can find any source claiming such a genetic test that you assert is possible, I'm interested in reading about it. 

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On 8/12/2018 at 3:24 PM, Troy said:

An African can have more in common, genetically, with a European than another African.

 

@TroyYOu know, I agree but scientist contradict themselves even in this regards. There statements about the Neaderthal and the percentage found in Europeans and Asians versus Africans shows this contradiction. 

On 8/12/2018 at 3:24 PM, Troy said:

But over time this backward thinking will die out on its own.

 

I don't know about that. White Supremacy has been pretty resilient for a long time, a long, long time. Your quote about 'having a gun and using it' pretty much some up how violent this supremacy movement has been. Even though it seems to me, when I see Black people in the Olympics, percentage-wise they are a resililent people but then, nevertheless, we are a minority and Black men have filled up the prisons in the majority. On the other hand, White people are a majority. So it seems that Black people may be the ones that may die out first, anyways, if things keep going in this way. 

 

On 8/12/2018 at 3:24 PM, Troy said:

Saying that Americans have been the most oppressed for "thousands upon thousands of years" is a gross exaggeration don't you think?

 

YOu know, I thought I said Black Africans as a whole. Did I say Americans? I have to read what I wrote. But yes, that would be too restrictive even regarding Black AFricans, however, I was thinking differently but wrote the wrong phrase. I was actually thinking in terms of a time way before Africans were known as such. 

 

I've been to visit the Smithsonian. I saw the Human origin museum. Every HOMONID presented was either Black or very dark skinned, all except for the Neanderthal and he existed for a long time without the presence of the Black Homonids based on the dates offered. So in this regards, I don't believe that I am exaggerating. 

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On 8/12/2018 at 8:12 PM, Pioneer1 said:

you have African, Native American, Caucasian, ect.. races.

 

But, the problemI am having, @Pioneer1 is that these terms that are used today and defined by this Western Civilization is a confusion for me because I see a deeper issue here. And this is why I still don't understand the debate over the term 'race' today. For example, I have heard many people argue about the term 'African' in that it is not the correct term to define Black people from this continent we know today to be 'Africa' based on sound reasoning. I want to say I understand you but then, I still don't understand this term 'race' on a wider scale. 

 

'The African race'-- why not be known as 'the race of Kemet' or 'the Hamitic race' or 'the Negro race'; all of these terms can carry a unique definition one from the other.  

--So what about 'the South Africans that are White and Blonde hair'; they don't fit the definition that I have in my mind about being 'African' based on traits as you have pointed out. I may be over thinking this, but still, it is a confusion for me.

 

As @Troy did say, I prefer to use the term 'Species' when I address 'races' today. 

On 8/12/2018 at 8:12 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The reason why it seems so confusing is because White Supremacists keep CHANGING the names and definitions of the races over and over again to keep you confused.

Oops! There it is. Maybe this is why I am confused on this issue. 

 

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The Nubians are dark skinned, dark eyed, and kinky haired 3000 years ago and they STILL are today.
The Germanic people were white skinned, blue eyed, and straight blonde haired 3000 years ago and they STILL are today.

I'm not even sure about this either. Confusing. Why do I say this? Well there are many other kinds of 'Nubian people' that may stem from 'the Orginal Nubian' and have unique traits but then there are other people that lost this identity altogether and would not be considered Nubian anymore. However, some people still may identify as Nubian even though they don't look nothing like the Original Nubians and in this sense, there is a conflict. This goes the same for the term 'Germanic'. What is an Original German?

Edited by Chevdove
computer froze; continued in edit format

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11 hours ago, Troy said:

There is no chromosome or set of gene one can use to identify one's race.

@Troy Uh, in terms of species, Genera, Family grouping; there are sets of chromosomes that do identify certain classifications of Humans. 

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On 8/12/2018 at 3:24 PM, Troy said:

but it is much more likely we'll just go the way of he Neanderthal and Denisovans.

 

@Troy You know, I believe we have been mis-educated on this score. Scientist say that the Denisovans died out but the Neanderthals lived for a long time afterwards. Also scientist day that the Neanderthals died out, but here again, they have contradicted themselves. 

 

If Neanderthals breeded with Europeans and etc. and lived contemporary with the modern humans 'Homo sapian sapian' [a distinct species] then, what this really means is that the Neanderthos DID NOT DIED OUT ALTOGEHTER!. So while their dominant presence has died out, however, ... Uh! LIke I said, this is a contradiction. So hey, maybe after a million years from now, humans might still be existing but what they look like... who knows.... but they may still possess some type of commonality due to a continuous presence through some type of 'reproduction', resurrection or whatever the term may be...

 

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Troy.

 

man made constructs like race have no basis in genetics.


It doesn' t matter if it's a "man made" construct or a NATURAL construct....if it's based on reality it's valid.

Race is based on PHENOTYPE and a person's phenotype is determined by their genes.

 

 

 

 


Chev

I personally use those terms for LACK of better terms to use in the English language.

Some of the terms I use have dual meanings but I have to use them because I don't know of any other that is as specific and exact.
For example.....

A Jewish person could be one who CONVERTED and is now practicing Judaism, OR it could be someone BORN ot a Jewish mother but not only doesn't practice but is actually an atheist.
Thus it has both religious AND cultural meanings.
Likewise, the word "African" has a DUAL meaning for me.

1. It's the word used for someone who was born in a country of that continent despite their race.

2. It has now become the word used for someone of what I used to call the "Black" race regardless as to where they were born.

I stopped using the word "Black" so much because it's not very accurate and correct to use.
Few of us are actually "Black" in skin color but most of us are brown, and many San and Koi people who belong to our race aren't Black or even dark but a light tannish.....still of our race.
The word "Hamite" is a biblically based term that assumes that the writers of the Old Testament and others who claimed that Blacks came from Ham were correct.
Kemet is valid, but it only describes those from ancient Egypt and I'm not convinced that all of our people came from Kemet.

So I chose the term "African describe all members of our race no matter where we are found.

 



As far as the Germanic people's of the past.....

I realize that the original people WHO LIVED IN THE LAND now called Germany were dark skinned, but that was many many thousands of years ago.
I believe when we get into 3000 years ago the Caucasians had pretty much moved into that area by then and either driven the original brown skinned people underground, driven them off, or killed them.


But if you don't like the term "race" you can also go with "species" or even "breed" if you will....lol.
As long as it's understood that human beings with different phenotypes are indeed different from eachother and those differences should be recognized and appreciated instead of pretending that they don't exist.

When you pretend that there is no difference between you and White racists, you set yourself up to be harmed and exploited like many of our people in Latin America and in the Middle East.

In both of those regions you have millions of people of African descent who are being discriminated against by their lighter skinned countrymen and live in squalor but because they don't see themselves as "Black" but may see themselves as Puerto Rican or Iraqi or Arabian.....they can't understand why they are living in the condition they're in and refuse to call it racism.


Like both you and I have said, it doesn't matter whether WE believe race exists or not...as long as White people in charge believe it then we have to accept this as a fact and deal with it.

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

It doesn' t matter if it's a "man made" construct or a NATURAL construct....if it's based on reality it's valid.

 

@Pioneer1 this statement, with all due respect, reflects sloppy thinking.  I've exhausted every possible means I have at my disposal to help you understand why, but obviously someone much more skilled than I is needed -- but I doubt that would make a difference, because you very rigid in your opinions.

 

Since you've failed to find evidence of a genetic race test.  Can you then explain how some "Black" people have more in common, genetically with some white people than other white people.  There is not a single physical characteristic of any so called race of people that is not present in indigenous Africans.  You may not know this but African has the greatest genetic diversity of any place on Earth -- no other places comes close.  This is because man originated in Africa and migrated out of Africa.

 

9 hours ago, Chevdove said:

There statements about the Neaderthal and the percentage found in Europeans and Asians versus Africans shows this contradiction. 

 

Yes most Europeans have a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA, but this does not make them, Neanderthal -- or "white."  They are still SPaiens like the rest of us.  Maybe if they had 75% Neanderthal DNA it would be a different story.

 

8 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Scientist say that the Denisovans died out but the Neanderthals lived for a long time afterwards. Also scientist day that the Neanderthals died out, but here again, they have contradicted themselves. 

 

This is true, but I fail to see the contradiction. Please explain why you see this to be contradictory.

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As long as it's understood that human beings with different phenotypes are indeed different from eachother and those differences should be recognized and appreciated instead of pretending that they don't exist.

 

You mean like one phenotype being smarter than the other, more prone to crime, or more inclined to prefer polygamy?  Is this really what you are saying?

 

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On 8/14/2018 at 8:59 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I personally use those terms for LACK of better terms to use in the English language.

 

@Pioneer1 Yes, I agree. I use this term and others for lack of better terms in this English language too.

And I do agree with much of what you have written. But regarding the term, 'Caucasian' even though I know that today European scholars use this term too, in the description of White people, but I have another deeper understanding about this term too.

On 8/14/2018 at 8:59 AM, Pioneer1 said:

human beings with different phenotypes are indeed different from eachother and those differences should be recognized and appreciated instead of pretending that they don't exist.

 

NOw, here, I have a problem with this understanding and here is why. I majored in Biology and have done extra research. So I also consider the term

GENOTYPE  and PHENOTYPE. As you said earlier, Phenotype is determined by GENES. Therefore, I think you may have this backwards. A persons GENOTYPE determines a persons' 'race' based on my understanding.  

On 8/14/2018 at 8:59 AM, Pioneer1 said:

When you pretend that there is no difference between you and White racists, you set yourself up to be harmed and exploited

 

Absolutely!!!

 

On 8/14/2018 at 8:59 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Like both you and I have said, it doesn't matter whether WE believe race exists or not...as long as White people in charge believe it then we have to accept this as a fact and deal with it.

 

Absolutely!!!

 

 

Edited by Chevdove
correction

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@Troy On the other hand, though, if you flip this phrase the other way, then the answer would be different.

 

23 hours ago, Troy said:

There is not a single physical characteristic of any so called race of people that is not present in indigenous Africans. 

 

If you were to say; There is  a single physical characteristic of so called race of people that is not present in White Europeans, but actually present in original African people, then you might understand the distinction between indigenous Africans versus 'some' kinds [ie. kindreds] of people on this earth. 

Also, regarding 'physical characteristics' and the issue of GENETICS ther is definitely a distinction that determines the unique species of people on this earth. 

 

Edited by Chevdove
clarification of thought

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23 hours ago, Troy said:

Yes most Europeans have a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA, but this does not make them, Neanderthal -- or "white."  They are still SPaiens

 

@Troy In terms of your statement; [1] How to you feel about 'THE ONE DROP RULE?' Do you believe that if a White person has ONE DROP OF BLACK BLOOD then, they are Black or African? 

And think about this question; [2] If a European person marries an Asian person and has an offspring, then are they only European, or are they Asian, or BI-CULTURAL or, dual-Species, or one species?

And, I have yet two more questions that may help me to further explain my research on this subject of 'SAPIENS'; [3] If a man and a woman marries and has an offspring and that offspring is born with perhaps, a form of MENTAL RETARDATION and this is a recognized pattern in the male's ancestry, should this issue not be significant in an attempt to understand why this is occurring? and lastly,

[4] What if a man and a woman marry and has an offspring and afterwards it becomes obvious that baby is born A FEMALE with female reproductive organs but also is born with a combination of MALE REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS and byway of Genetic testing it is recognized [observed' that the father has an EXTRA X SEX CHROMOSOME with a SRY-MALE SEX GENE attached to this X  SEX Chromosome. Furthermore, it is a determined a proven factor that NO INDIGENOUS AFRICAN MAN has this issue but it is a pattern that continues to show up in a high percentage of White Europeans and furthermore------- DRUM ROLL HERE ----- it is a pattern that defined in NEANDERTHALS? Should scientist recognize this kind of GENETIC information to determined a distinction with regards to SPECIES of HOMO SAPIENS?

 

CONCLUSION: Even though humans come from a particular origin scientist makes classifications with regards to GENETIC MARKS that show up at differnt times in the past. So there are phrases like HOMO ERECTUS, and HOMO FLORENSIES [sp?], and HOMO SAPIENS, and HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN ane etc. Also due to certain GENETIC MARKINGS known as MUTATIONS, this is one basis for different classifications of species. 

     

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23 hours ago, Troy said:

They are still SPaiens like the rest of us.  Maybe if they had 75% Neanderthal DNA it would be a different story.

 

 

I don't know about that because, this 'percentage' classification would be RELATIVE to who in the past records would have defined it as such and also based on scientific facts with regards to a comparison and contrast to other issues. Tlhat is why I brought of 'THE ONE DROP RULE'. Relative to this government and their definitions of A QUADROON and etc. they made their laws. But Based upon science today and ancient records, this would be a wrong way to classify people, with respect to being 'AFRICAN' or perhaps 'a DARK SKINNED, STRAIGHT HAIRED AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINE' for example.  Also, the Neanderthal has the same GENUS HOMO but the term Sapien is sometimes not defined to include them. They are defined as 'a species' that is distinct because they existed long before the HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN that is defined in other regards. 

 

Also I mentioned GENDER DETERMINATION based on GENETICS because today, the law has been passed that is based upon a person's choice, whether or not they choose to undergo surgery or just be defined as LGBT or etc. But in the past, this would be wrong and solely based upon a persons GENETICS. 

 

Neanderthals are intersexed but not the original African man and this can be seen in their GENES. But due to the intermixing of Neanderthals with the HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN, today, some people today are born intersexed in the African 'race' and 'European 'race'. 

Also, the Neanderthals have a separate classification from the HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN and therefore, there is two distinct classifications here based on GENETIC MARKINGS. Nethertheless, the Neanderthals did intermix with the modern humans of today [Homo Sapien Sapien].  

Therefore like other classifications of species and genera, it is not cut and dry here, and it is not based upon percentages like 75%. IF there is a reproduction of two species then, it becomes A HYBRID.  A Hybrid from a Neanderthal father would be A HOMO NEANDERTHALENSIS [ie. sometimes written as Homo Sapien Neanderthal],  and a Hybrid from a modern Homo Sapien--African man would be a Homo Sapien Sapien. Therefore if Neanderthal men intermixed with the modern womankind and produced offspring, how can they be extinct with these traits are shared traits from this kind of reproduction? 

 

In respect to the DENISOVANS that died out, the NEANDERTHALS that lived for a long time on this earth and, the contradiction that scientist say, the Neanderthals died out; [1]  The Neanderthal and the Denisovans have been determined to have a MRCA Recent Common Ancestor. This means that the Neanderthal is definitely A DENISOVAN!

[2] When I went to visit the Smithsonian, all of the many other HOMONIDS in the room were either Black or very dark skinned except for the Neanderthalensis. What does this mean? Well, that would mean that the Neanderthal underwent A MUTATION and therefore they are distinct form of a DENISOVAN.

[3] The anthropology of Neanderthals shows that they were a violent presence due to the marks on their skeletons, broken bones, gashes, blows to their skulls, that healed and were broken again... and there were deformities and etc. What does this SUGGEST. Well, if they are a lesser presence of the DENISOVANS then, it suggest that the Denisovans or should I say, ORIGINAL NEANDERTHALS were much more powerful yet, they became extinct due NOT TO PHYSICALLY UNFITNESS but due to some type of violence. 

[4] The NEANDERTHALS are white, and this is the mutation that shows up in their chromosomes, however, technically they were not just 'white' but they carry the DNA of ALBINISM [ie. many forms of it] and they carry many other distinct traits that the African man does not carry. 

 

So in my brief conclusion: The Neanderthals could not completely have died out if they intermixed with 'the AFRICAN MANKIND' and their traits are ever present and showing up in all of us today. So it would be a serious misinformation to say that african people do not have any Neanderthal traits, but it would be more correct, scientifically to say, that AFRICAN PEOPLE DO NOT RETAIN certain traits because a lot of the Neaderthal traits were tranferred in THE SKIN CELLS!!! And also, in respect to the SCIENCE OF COLOR, White people, as you have alluded to, are not necesarrily defined as Neanderthals because they are White, but the color of being 'White' is not only determined by one origin. the color 'white' or etc. light skinned, can come from the African mankind.  This can easily be seen due to the science of 'CAT COAT COLOR' and 'HORSE COAT COLOR', but due to White Supremacy and an intense time in ancient times of INBREEDING and SELECTIVE BREEDING, there is a confusion today as all humans contain MARKINGS of the reproduction that occurred a long time ago. This is why I say that scientist have delibarely contradicted themselves. 

 

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2 hours ago, Chevdove said:

[1] How to you feel about 'THE ONE DROP RULE?' Do you believe that if a White person has ONE DROP OF BLACK BLOOD

 

This question does not make sense on multiple levels; Black and white people have the same blood.  The notion that someone who white looks phenotypically "white" but is really  "Black" because of a "One Drop" rule, illustrates just how ridiculously arbitrary the term "race." Again this is not founded in science.

 

2 hours ago, Chevdove said:

[2] If a European person marries an Asian person and has an offspring, then are they only European, or are they Asian, or BI-CULTURAL or, dual-Species, or one species?

 

@Chevdove this is becoming exasperating; any combination of any two humans will produce the same species.  If does not matter how you vary the question all of humanity belongs to the same species. Homo Sapiens.

 

2 hours ago, Chevdove said:

[3] If a man and a woman marries and has an offspring and that offspring is born with perhaps, a form of MENTAL RETARDATION and this is a recognized pattern in the male's ancestry, should this issue not be significant in an attempt to understand why this is occurring?

 

What? Same goes for question [4].

 

Chev, Neanderthals and all other human species (as far as anyone knows) migrated out of Africa.

 

I've read your description explaining why scientist have contradicted themselves. I can't follow the reasoning. 

 

My knowledge on the subject of DNA is admittedly limited, but much of what I understand conflicts with some of what you have written.  I don't understand how horse coats get their color and how that related to human skin color, but I doubt there is much of a relationship.

 

If you want to believe that man is made up of multiple species and that these species related to the different humans races and that Neanderthal DNA plays a factor and this is all explained by cat hair color... it is a free country. 🙂

 

 

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@Troy Perhaps the reason why my statements are not understood clearly is because I lack a higher degree and have not been in a disciplined classroom environment beyond a B.S. degree. But still, I would like to reply to some of statements but, not on what I believe but what I understand from scientist, scholars and reference material, and also observation: I agree about the 'One Drop Rule' being ridiculous and again, I don't understand this governments definition of 'race' but, I want to address your other statement;

 

7 hours ago, Troy said:

Black and white people have the same blood

 

[1] Scientist findings about the ABO Blood types and also the RH factor does show a break down based on differnt 'kinds' of people. Based on my understanding of the research, the Rh Negative factor has an exclusive origin in 'White females'. This is not what I believe this is a fact that has to be considered for such things as blood transfusion and preganancy issues. When a White female with RH- is impregnated by a Rh+ father, she has to undergo procedures because of what has happened in the past before this issue was recognized. Her body builds up sustances that will harm the baby and, if she becomes pregnant with the second baby, it is that pregnancy that is in danger. 

 

8 hours ago, Troy said:

If does not matter how you vary the question all of humanity belongs to the same species. Homo Sapiens.

 

[2] Okay. In terms of the modern Homo sapiens, I agree. But if the scientist today speak in reference to the presence of Neanderthal DNA and also, they categorize them in a separate 'species' then, there is a distinction based on the scientific definition of the term 'SPECIES'. There was a conflict on how to categorize 'Neanderthals in the 1920s because of the issue of the AFrican people of whom was believed to be 'lesser race' but soon, scientist defined modern humans as being 'HOMO SAPIENS' and the Neanderthals as being a separate species as 'HOMO NEANDERTHALENSIS'. But I do understand you in that even though scientist report that modern humans did intermix with Neanderthals, you still believe that their presence does not change the definintion of todays modern humans and that we are all one species. 

 

8 hours ago, Troy said:

Neanderthals and all other human species (as far as anyone knows) migrated out of Africa.

 

[3] But this still does not change the reports in that Neanderthals are a distinct species apart from the modern Homo sapiens? It doesn't matter where they migrated out from, the classification of 'species' is not based on geographical origins in this earth.

 

8 hours ago, Troy said:

but I doubt there is much of a relationship.

 

[4] Me too. I am limited on the subject of DNA and so, I am not absolutely sure about my research because I am not in a classroom setting. HOwever from what i understand about Horse coat coloring and cat coat coloring, this has been used by scientist to correlate to the human race in regards to DNA, eye coloring, hair coloring, and etc. the terms used such as 'EUMELANIN' and more are the exact same terms and science that determines the coloring of horses and cats. You are not requesting for me to back up what I say by offering references and so, I realize you think I'm way out in left field. But nevertheless, if I come across some references perhaps, you might be willing to check it out.

 

8 hours ago, Troy said:

If you want to believe that man is made up of multiple species and that these species related to the different humans races and that Neanderthal DNA plays a factor and this is all explained by cat hair color... it is a free country. 🙂

 

[5] No, I don't want to just believe blindly but I did present some terms like HOMO ERECTUS, HOMO FLORENSIES, HOMO NEANDERTHALENSIS, and HOMO SAPIENS because these are terms that scientist use to define separate species. And no, I don't want to believe blindly that Neanderthal DNA plays a factor in the modern humans, but I did refer to these topics as being determined by the scientific process byway of scholars. Oh well... thanks anyway for reading. 

 

I did get a chance to look at some links and references about a subject that I had mentioned earlier about 'giants' and it sort of goes along with this topic so, I hope to at least post some references about that. 

 

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This was simply a mistake. Some had made the assumption that Neanderthals were the same species so they would homo sapiens. To distinguish, they referred to modern humans as homo sapiens sapiens. In other words, modern humans would be a sub-species. However, DNA analysis has shown this to be incorrect. Neanderthals were a different species so they are now called homo neanderthalensis and we are homo sapiens.

 

Article: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOMO SAPIENS AND HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-homo-sapiens-and-homo-sapiens-sapiens

 

Neanderthals diverged about 500,000 years ago, so they are mostly no longer categorized as homo sapiens neanderthalensis, but as homo neanderthalensis.

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-homo-sapiens-and-homo-sapiens-sapiens

 

 

liger.jpg

 

Earlier in another post, I mentioned this Liger BUT i Iincorrectly said his name was Samsun, but I was wrong.

His name is HERCULES.

 

The Liger is a hybrid cross between a male lion and a female tiger, thus both its parents are from the Panthera genus, but from different species. Ligers are the biggest of all the big cats, growing to almost the lion and tigers combined size.

 

 

 

 

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