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harry brown

White. Man. Kills,2,Black. People!!!

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In. Kentucky. A. Racist. White. Shot,Killed. 2,Elderly. Black. People. At,A. Grocery. Store.  Before. The. Racist. White. Man. Shot. The. Elderly,Black,People,He  Tried  To. Enter  A. Black  Church,But  The,Church. People  Stopped  Him  From  Getting  In.  What  Happened,At  The  Charleston  Church  In,2015 Could  Have  Happened,In  Kentucky... .All  The. Terror. I,Said  The  Racist  ,White,,Want  A  Race  War, ..Then  The  Black  On  Black  Murder Do,Not. Stop.  Black  Police. Officer  Shot,Killed  By  A  Stupid,Moron,Black. Male,Criminal...

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@Chevdove just for a point of comparison this event deserves attention and action. The "Key Fob Affair"... meh.

 

A race war is not just evil but it is a completely absurd idea.  Unfortunately, there seem to be folks trying to start one. So many people in the south have guns -- many of them walking around with them concealed  -- just in case someone wants to start something.  That combined with stand your ground laws and 45's constantly exclaiming these mass shooting would not see so bad if more people were armed.

 

Unfortunately there are too many mentally disturbed people who own guns.  In Florida it is easier to buy a gun than it is to register to vote.

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On 10/30/2018 at 3:04 PM, Troy said:

45's constantly exclaiming these mass shooting would not see so bad if more people were armed.

 

@Troy I did not know he said that!

 

On 10/30/2018 at 3:04 PM, Troy said:

A race war is not just evil but it is a completely absurd idea.  Unfortunately, there seem to be folks trying to start one.

 

yes, it seems like people are listening to advice from Trump. This is how I feel though: I believe that this maybe a repeat of history in that propaganda is used to start a movement thta otherwise would never happen. It is a painfully emotional situation though because, this is not how I was raised and to witness a leader incite these kinds of racial situations in my lifetime is shocking. It is normal to believe that there is integrity in all walks of life, so how do we, as humans, accept the kind of abnormal behavior that is going on right now?

 

On 10/30/2018 at 3:04 PM, Troy said:

 just for a point of comparison this event deserves attention and action. The "Key Fob Affair"... meh.

 

On the contrary, that deranged shooter, a White man, responded this way, but that White womans behavior, is absolutely connected. Racism and White Supremacy is not just coming from White men. I hope you saw the other two viral stories that just happened a few days ago about two other White women that acted in the same way that KEY FOB KELLY did.

 

One White woman confronted two Black woman, and told them, in so many words, that they did not belong in that apartment community. The other news reported that a White woman put something in a mailbox stating that her community was White, suggesting that she did not want Blacks living there. 

 

And then the case you shared about the man that shot at a young school teenager in Detroit was instigated by his wife.

 

There are so many other White people, men and women that do not deserve to be categorized with these kinds of people, because they too, would never go along with this; Make America Great Again approach. Trump is certainly bending the media in a certain way. This is terrible.

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Troy

 

That combined with stand your ground laws and 45's constantly exclaiming these mass shooting would not see so bad if more people were armed.

 

Believe it or not, he DOES have a good point.
Can it be denied that if there WERE well trained and armed security guards at the door of that synagogue that they would have quickly stopped that man before he was able to off so many people?

And the same thing could be said about the Black church down in South Carolina.
If they had armed security, I doubt Roof would have even TRIED to do what he was able to do.

When you go into Nation of Islam temples you are searched from head to toe and they almost never have incidents like this happening at their meetings.

 

 

 

Chev

 

And then the case you shared about the man that shot at a young school teenager in Detroit was instigated by his wife.


That wasn't in Detroit.
Actually it was in a wealthy suburb with a pretty large Asian and Middle Eastern population.
If he had did that in Detroit they would have burned his house down that same night.....lol.
But then again, the teen probably wouldn't have asked for directions there anyway because most people know better than to go to a random house in the city they don't know about knocking on doors and asking questions.


I notice that when it comes to major news networks like Fox, CNN, and NBC.....unless the event they're reporting actually happens on the East or West coast where they are based and are more familiar with the municipal layouts of the area....as far as they are concerned ANYTHING that happens in a Midwestern or Southern state is reported as happening in it's largest city.
They don't even bother to be accurate or give distinguish from one city to the next.

Something can happen 200 miles away in southern Illinois but Fox news will report it as happening in "Chicago" or give reference as to how far it is away from Chicago as if that matters.....rather than acknowledging the city.

I mention this only to illustrate how out of touch the major media is with most of the country.
The are only concerned with Los Angeles, New York, and Washington D.C....who cares what's happening in Independence Missouri.

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@Chevdove you do realize that tbe keyfob woman you keep saying that does not want black people living in her building was married to a Black man?  Many Black women cant say that.

 

How do you rationalize her supposedly overt racist behavior having been martied to a brotheer?

 

Yeah @Pioneer1 anytime a Black person kills another Black person in the U.S. they just say Chicago 🙂 Acutually i believe detriot has a higher murder rate.

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40 minutes ago, Troy said:

you do realize that tbe keyfob woman you keep saying that does not want black people living in her building was married to a Black man?  Many Black women cant say that.

 

@Troy You already brought point up. LOL. I responded that her husband, who is her 'ex-husband' spoke against her actions. They had been separated for over a year and he was not living in that luxury apt.  

41 minutes ago, Troy said:

Many Black women cant say that.

 

LOL true, but for more reasons than one! 

 

Do Black men want Black woman for marriage partners? Do Black women want Black men for marriage partners? Do White women want Black men that are without a substantial income? ...

 

 

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@Chevdove I know but your response did not answer my question.  Are you suggesting that she was a racist when she married the Black man -- or only became a racist after she divorced him.  The former would not make sense and the latter makes her no different than the majority of Black women who married Black men.

 

While calling every slight made my a white person against a Black person racist is great for a social media meme, it is simplistic and reductionist.  

 

The answer to your questions are yes, yes, and yes. 

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Racism isn't always acted upon and it isn't always violent or toxic.  Well-meaning whites can inadvertently be racist because of simply being insensitive and ignorant of slights that can be deemed to be offensive by blacks.  Today, Obama considers Joe Biden one of his best friends, but back in 2008 Biden  torpedoed his own aspirations for president when he made the casual observation about Obama seeming to be a nice clean upstanding guy.  Black people immediately pounced on this saying it was a racist remark, and that actually ended Biden's ambitions back then. 

 

Calling the police on a black person who is committing no offense is a malicious act of racism that is triggered by skin color.  It is also an affront to the dignity of a black person.  A meme exposing this dynamic is not an overreaction. To me,  it is a confirmation of how insidious racism can be. 

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I clearly understand your point @Cynique.  I recently had a conversation with a writer who described a situation they were in, which I witnessed as, racist.  The problem was that there were were a variety of other potential reasons for the perceived slight.  I looked into the situation and concluded that writer was actually being given a benefit rather than being slighted.  Admittedly, this was not obvious to either of us at the time. 

 

Collectively we are far too eager to call someone racist.  If you see racism everywhere you look, you'll find racism everywhere you look. Every white woman who does something stupid is simply not a racist.  All racists are stupid, but not all stupid people are racist.

 

I'll be the first to admit it is hard not to be racist in America -- especially when every single incident is exaggerated and viewed under the lense of racism.  I have to force myself to consider people as individuals and not assume every negative incident involving a white person is a result of racism.  Usually the reason is much more base, like fear, greed, or envy, 

 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

Today, Obama considers Joe Biden one of his best friends, but back in 2008 Biden  torpedoed his own aspirations for president when he made the casual observation about Obama seeming to be a nice clean upstanding guy.  Black people immediately pounced on this saying it was a racist remark, and that actually ended Biden's ambitions back then. 

 

If the quote you attributed to Biden was considered racist; that strikes me as absurd, more a reflection of Black paranoia.  

 

It also does not surprise me, in the least bit, that Obama and Biden are BFFs.  Now if you said Obama was best buds with Al Sharpton I would be very surprised 😉 Obama used Sharpton well.  I knew that Sharpton's MSNBC show would not last beyond Obama's presidency.

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@TroyWell, you want to characterize racism as an aberration, or something that is voluntary.  To me, it is a by-product of tribalism that is inherently entwined with xenophobia, and is a primitive reaction wired into the brain. Once this instinct is stimulated by an environment where the species are diversified, then "like" gravitates toward "like" and it become "us" against "them". The reason why racism is associated with white-skinned people is because they were powerful and cruel enough to be able to enforce their bias. This is also what spawned and maintains white supremacy.   In today's climate,  an accusation of racism is an effective  tool - a card that is played to stifle or stigmatize one's white adversaries. Likewise,  the word "nigger" is the most deadly weapon of racists, and i think even you, with all of your tolerance, wince and are injured by this simple 2-syllable utterance, no matter what the circumstances.    

 

I, myself, am prejudiced and suspicious of other ethnics. I wasn't taught this.  It just came natural to me.  In my mind, I discriminate against the 

"other" but i rarely act on this because I'm a coward, not looking for trouble unless it's "on line" where i don't have to worry about physical retaliation.  😏

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17 hours ago, Troy said:

Are you suggesting that she was a racist when she married the Black man

@Troy absolutely. Racist people don't become racist because of the actions of a non-Black person, rather, racism and White Supremacy is based on something else and it is a conditioning. Her marrying a Black man has nothing to do with her being a racist or not. 

 

17 hours ago, Troy said:

The former would not make sense

 

Well, racism and White Supremacy, does not make sense to me either, but it is prevalent. 

 

17 hours ago, Troy said:

latter makes her no different than the majority of Black women who married Black men.

 

When women marry men of their own culture versus marrying outside of their culture, I think there is a distinction. 

17 hours ago, Troy said:

While calling every slight made my a white person against a Black person racist is great for a social media meme, it is simplistic and reductionist.  

 

Not when the police are called

 

17 hours ago, Troy said:

The answer to your questions are yes, yes, and yes. 

 

I guess I need to rephrase my questions because your answers erase all hints of issues that have plagued this world in terms of Colorism and economic basis. Can you give me an example of a White woman who 'wants' [ie meaning marry] a Black African American man who is NOT a bread winner? 

13 hours ago, Cynique said:

To me, it is a by-product of tribalism that is inherently entwined with xenophobia, and is a primitive reaction wired into the brain.

 

absolutely.

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1 hour ago, Chevdove said:

Her marrying a Black man has nothing to do with her being a racist or not

 

This strikes me as illogical, or at least the strangest behavior of a racist I've ever heard of.

 

1 hour ago, Chevdove said:

an you give me an example of a White woman who 'wants' [ie meaning marry] a Black African American man who is NOT a bread winner? 

 

I fail to see what this has to with racism. Besides the question is biased and flawed,

because the only examples I'd be able to come up with, that you would be  familiar with, are celebrities who are all bread winners.

 

14 hours ago, Cynique said:

Well, you want to characterize racism as an aberration, or something that is voluntary.  To me, it is a by-product of tribalism that is inherently entwined with xenophobia, and is a primitive reaction wired into the brain. 

 

That is because what you understand as racism is not inherent to human nature; it is something that is taught. Fear of "the other" has nothing to do with skin color; that is incidental. The white racism exhibited in the western world today is relatively new energing with the Atlantic slave trade. 

 

Our racism @Cynique is a consequence of being Black in America. Our difference is that I won't accept it as "normal," for there is no evidence of racism, based upon skin color, being natural. 

 

14 hours ago, Cynique said:

Likewise,  the word "nigger" is the most deadly weapon of racists, and i think even you, with all of your tolerance, wince and are injured by this simple 2-syllable utterance, no matter what the circumstances.    

 

@Cynique I hear the word nigger used so much it means nothing to me in most circumstances. Obviously if a group of white men carrying a noose are using it you won't find me hanging around videoing it for social media 😉

 

 

 

 

 

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I am not preaching a gospel or insisting that others agree with me.  I just theorized based on what i have read which is why i think that xenophobia, the natural fear of strangers, is tied to "racism", so it doesn't have to exclusively deal with white skin  but has more to do with having a different  general appearance. Asians and Hispanics can and do  practice "racism".  Nor does anybody have to teach children to perceive that certain other children look different from them. Just like they know a Beagle looks different from a Collie. It all begins with what the eye sees, and a reaction to seeing an unfamiliar "other" can affect the flow of adrenaline  and put a creature in a self defense mode. So there is hostility right from the "get-go". There are too many intricate factors involved to simply dismiss  "racism" as  a superficial sentiment that has to be taught to children.  This is the rationale of idealistic humans  who think people are innately good and have deep love for their fellow man.  They ignore  the  "man's inhumanity to man" truism that  keeps the world in turmoil.

 

@TroyThe "in most circumstances" you refer to when you say that being called a "nigger" doesn't faze you, means the cases where another black person is  the offender.   Would it still "mean nothing" to you if a sneering, unarmed, white female called you a "nigger"?  

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Troy

Yes.
There are dozens of cities with a higher murder rate that Chicago.
Atlanta, New Orleans, and Baltimore to name a few.......

Now granted Chicago is much bigger in population so even if their muder rate is lower percentage wise still a large NUMBER of people are still being killed and wounded.

However the media's obsession with Chicago's high homicide rate is clearly racially based.
As usual, it started with Fox News and IT'S constant propaganda about Chicago and how violent it was during Obama's run for president back 12 years ago....and they just kept drilling into the public about how dangerous and lawless Chicago was. Soon other news organizations began imitating Fox News and reporting every act of violence that happened there.

Despite the fact that Chicago is less than 40% AfroAmerican, in the eyes of most of the nation.....Chicago = Black.

So when they talk about how violent and savage Chicago is they are REALLY saying how violent and savage Black people are.
It's a backdoor way of maintaining racist stereotypes and keeping the public alarmed and scared.
Racism must be constantly "fed" or it will die a natural death.


 

 


Chev

A lot of people say that money "changes" people.
But I believe money doesn't really change you as much as it exposes who you REALLY are deep down, because it allows you to express yourself and practice behaviors that you were formerly unable to do because of financial restrictions.

It's kind of like people who come from very strict religious societies who come to America and go crazy when they are finally free to do what they always wanted to do in the first place.

Money brings out who you really are.

That's why when people criticize AfroAmericans who get rich and start marrying outside of their racist in huge numbers as changing, I say they're doing what they always wanted to do in the first place but just didn't have the money to do it.


Just like that young lady on Dr. Phil's show who hates other AfroAmericans......there are thousands upon thousands of AfroAmericans who don't find other AfroAmericans attractive but love and desire to spend the rest of their life with non-African people because they feel they are better and of higher quality.  Money just allows them to express these desires.

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On 11/4/2018 at 5:56 AM, Troy said:

I fail to see what this has to with racism. Besides the question is biased and flawed,

because the only examples I'd be able to come up with, that you would be  familiar with, are celebrities who are all bread winners.

 

Wait, But @Troy My response is based on your earlier post. 

 

On 11/3/2018 at 12:48 AM, Troy said:

you do realize that tbe keyfob woman you keep saying that does not want black people living in her building was married to a Black man?  Many Black women cant say that.

 

 

So, you quoted me below, however, this all started from what your response. 

On 11/4/2018 at 5:56 AM, Troy said:

Can you give me an example of a White woman who 'wants' [ie meaning marry] a Black African American man who is NOT a bread winner? 

 

And, your other response would connect to this issue, IMO:

On 11/4/2018 at 5:56 AM, Troy said:

because the only examples I'd be able to come up with, that you would be  familiar with, are celebrities who are all bread winners.

 

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On 11/4/2018 at 3:19 PM, Cynique said:

.  Nor does anybody have to teach children to perceive that certain other children look different from them. Just like they know a Beagle looks different from a Collie. 

 

Sure chikdren can tell humans apart from each other, but the fear or hated based upon those differences is taught. 

 

On 11/4/2018 at 3:19 PM, Cynique said:

It all begins with what the eye sees, and a reaction to seeing an unfamiliar "other" can affect the flow of adrenaline  and put a creature in a self defense mode.

 

Cynique where did you get this from? I know you did not read this in a book. Is it based upon an observation. At the risk if offending you, it sounds exactly like something Pioneer would say 😮

 

Racism is not inherent to humans: it is a learned behavior. America is perhaps the greatest teacher if racism. They have people beliving it is human nature... deep.

 

@Chevdove, OK.

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On 11/4/2018 at 2:19 PM, Cynique said:

I am not preaching a gospel or insisting that others agree with me.  I just theorized based on what i have read which is why i think that xenophobia, the natural fear of strangers, is tied to "racism", so it doesn't have to exclusively deal with white skin  but has more to do with having a different  general appearance.

 

9 hours ago, Troy said:

Cynique where did you get this from? I know you did not read this in a book. Is it based upon an observation. At the risk if offending you, it sounds exactly like something Pioneer would say 😮

@Troy I did read in books all of the things I referred to when sharing my thoughts, and i didn't  deem what i said to be irrefutable facts.  Your rebuttal, however, left something to be desired.   Sooo, explain to me why do you do not think that xenophobia is a component of racism, - even if racism  is taught.  i assume you embrace the  ridiculous idea of color-blindness when it comes to race, and that a white child  looks at a black one and doesn't see that the black child's skin is different from his. Something his eyes tell him, not his parents. 

 

Instinct  is involved in the survival of the fittest evolution.  Those in a species who follow  life-saving impulses replicate themselves while those who don't, die off, and what's left is a species that all share a common reaction to circumstances. This is really manifested in the animal kingdom.  In primitive man a sense of danger did make adrenaline flow, making this reaction a component of self preservation, which is the bottom line.

 

Has it ever occurred to you that children have to be civilized by their parents, and have to be taught not to follow their natural inclination,  and that certain parents neglect to tell their kids not to be prejudiced against others. Have you considered that maybe it's tolerance that has to be taught, not racism?    

 

However, you are free to declare that racism is purely a learned response - because you read this somewhere. I think racism is many-faceted and a little more complicated than that because it deals with biology as much as ethics.   

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4 hours ago, Cynique said:

why do you do not think that xenophobia is a component of racism,

 

White folks have a Loooong history of killing other white folks for a variety of reasons.  You lived through WW II, you witnesses global slaught largely at the hands of white folks on an unprecedented scale. Racism was just a tactic to justify life long enslavement of Black folks. 

 

I don't think racism is all that complicated and it certainly has nothing to do with biology, or any inherited traits.  In a century, assuming the planet is still habitable, people will look back on the time unable to fathom why people were racist. I'm less racist that my parents, and my kids are less racist than I am.  Once we die off America will be a better place, at least as far as this racism stupidity is concerned.

 

Cynique if people are born hating folks of different completions why don't Black people of different completions hate each other?

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   @Troy You keep assuming that "racism is exclusively about black and white, when it isn't.  White Americans are currently biased against  brown immigrants, as are some black people. Also, racism doesn't necessarily involve hate. It can be patronizing and paternalistic.   And you need to familiarize yourself with some of the things that led to WWII like Germany's intense anti-semitism, and the undertones of the yellow Japanese attacking white America. "Racist" propaganda on all sides polluted the atmosphere during this war. Not to mention how blacks were subjected to racism in the segregated US Military for whom they were fighting! "Race" was factor during The Crusades, and the British colonization of India.  And have you noticed what a factor race is playing in today's election??? Because you are a idealist, you want to believe that racism is misunderstood. You are in a near panic about climate control and social media, but think racism is a man-made nuisance that will juuuust faaade away.   I think if it disappears, it will be because people will have evolved into everyone being the same shade.   

 

4 hours ago, Troy said:

Cynique if people are born hating folks of different completions why don't Black people of different completions hate each other?

i didn't say people were "born hating folks of different complexions"; those are your words.  I suggested that humans are predisposed to being suspicious of those who don't look like them and that this primitive defense mechanism spawned racism. And i can't believe you would pose the question about blacks of different complexions hating each other, as much as you talk about colorism - which is a cousin of racism, and is a caste system that still exists today.  

 

Since the concept of race is controversial, it follows that racism is a complex subject that is open to interpretation. Whatever. It's origin doesn't matter to victims of it.  

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@Troy You mention the World Wars in terms of how White people have hate issues amongst each other, but I am wondering how far back do you believe that White-on-White hostilities go back? 

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15 hours ago, Cynique said:

You keep assuming that "racism is exclusively about black and white, when it isn't.

 

OK you are now making this conversation really dicey when you start commingling "race" and "skin color."  One is subjective and the other is purely arbitrary, so a reasonable discussion is very difficult, still I'll try...

 

I was talking about Black and White because that was what this conversation was about.  Now you want to bring brown immigrants into the mix (another pioneer tactic 😉).  Xenophobia does not equal racism, nor is it a function of skin color. 

 

Not all people south of the board are "brown" -- many are physically indistinguishable from what you know as white.  This is a notion fueling social media hysteria and exploited by our president.  Cynique when protestants were and catholics were running around killing each other was skin color a consideration? 

 

I may be an idealist, but racism will fade away.  History tells us this -- and it should be obvious.  I'm sure the majority of Americans know Black people are not genetically inferior. Little more than 100 years ago  we enslaved on this belief -- a belief any educated person would reject today.  Cynique racism is fading and it will continue to do so.  A woman challenging a man from coming in behind her in an apartment is not proof to the counter

 

While describing my impressions of social media a climate change as "panic" is a bit much (😮) The difference between racism and climate change is that climate change will not go away unless we actually do something. Unless we do something there will be a calamity on a global scale.  Now this will not likely effect you or I, but future generations certainly have cause for concern.

 

As far as social media, I don't like it for a variety of reasons and it quite possibly may be a more serious problem that American racism, because it too is global in influence.  45 is in the whitehouse because of social media, the genocide in the aftermath of the Arab Spring is a result of Facebook.

 

@Chevdove White on white hostility seems to go back as far as recorded history.  Forget Chicago, something really needs to be done about this "white-on-white" crime 🙂

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@Troy I am taking "race" out of the equation and you should  too, since you still think that there is only one race, in spite of your recent acceptance of the usage of this word as a convenience.  I, however,  don't buy that you can have it both ways, and i submit that this kind of cancels out  your claims, especially the one about "race" having nothing to do with skin-color. i find that curious, and i also have a  problem with you deciding that talking about discrimination against brown people isn't relevant and doesn't belong in this conversation.    

 

We have stumbled into a semantic  bind. I ill-advisedly used the word "racism" in my proposition, and this made my argument nebulous. What i was really endeavoring to dissect is tribalism, which is akin to xenophobia. In regard to that, i stand by what i gleaned from what i have read over the years, - just as you steadfastly believe in the plausibility of what you say.  Which is to further say, that your arguments didn't bring me around to your side, any more than mine made any inroads into your opinionated predictions and assessments, none of which have any precedents to bolster your statements, - especially the pompous one about history telling us that your self-described definition of "racism" is faaaading away.  Fading away? Or just taking a different, more insidious form? (And i guess there are a lot of dumb black folks who are more focused on the present.)  I still think a universal skin color, not a change of heart is what will dissipate what we call "racism". But you, in all of your omniscience, can gaze into the future and take on the role of a seer.  I don't really care, because I won't be around to witness the brave new world my progeny and their generations, will have to deal with.  That's how the ball we call  "earth"  bounces. 😲       

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20 hours ago, Cynique said:

especially the pompous one about history telling us that your self-described definition of "racism" is faaaading away. 

 

LOL "pompous" oh my, have we resorted to name calling? 😛  Not even Pioneer resorts to that tactic 😉

 

No, I don't fashion myself as a "seer" either (that's Del's realm).  Indeed, I'm a student of history, and looking at the trajectory of racism (or tribalism if you prefer), the trajectory, as far as Black folks is concerned in America, is pretty damn good -- I'l take 2018 American over 1818 American any day of the week.  I suspect you would too Cynique.

 

We've gone from enslavement, to jim crow, to being challenged when entering our building without using a key -- in just over 100 years.  All indications are that we will continue to make progress over the next 100 years. I see things like 45's precedence as the last gasp of the dying legacy of old style white male dominance -- racist or otherwise.  The results of the midterms have made this pretty plain.

 

But lets be clear rich white men exert a great deal of control, a few elected officials, while a step in the right direction is not the solution.  Real power needs to be wrested from these people and that will take a lot more action than we've, collectively, demonstrated a willingness to exert.

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@Troy Pardon me if i don't apologize for describing as "pompous" the rhetoric you used  in tracing the history of black oppression.  To me, slavery is slavery, and racism is racism.  One shackled the body, the other tethers the mind. One died, the other is alive and well, in all of its incarnations.

 

Since you have set up the hapless Pioneer as the criteria of what not to do if you want your rebuttals to be credible, i find you guilty of being like him when you cherry-pick what you respond to, electing instead to go off on mansplaining tangents. You may or may not be right in your world view, but you are out of step with the black consensus when it comes to the impact of racism, not to mention its connection to the rich white men you speak of but who you appear to be oblivious about when it comes to their connection to the institutionalized racism that is a pillar of American society!  It wasn't too long ago that you were lamenting about this country being a oligarchy whose trajectory did not bode well for the future.  Now you're brimming with optimism about a future where blacks will have cast off the burden of their skin color and blend right in.  

 

White bigots in blue uniforms, regularly shoot black people over misdemeanors so it's understandable for blacks to be on the defensive when confronted with racial profiling which involves having the police called on them.  But you have the GOOGLE logo for eye balls and are unable to see that this makes you just as touchy as those you criticize for resenting white interference.   😵

 

i agree that black people see racism behind every tree. But that's because it is,  lurking there,  just waiting to remind them that once a nigga, always a nigga.🤪   

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27 minutes ago, Cynique said:

but you are out of step with the black consensus when it comes to the impact of racism

 

How are you arriving at your conclusion of what the black consensus might be? Is it what you see streaming across your facebook feed or some other filter bubble?  What makes you the arbiter of defining who or who is not in the black consensus?

 

30 minutes ago, Cynique said:

It wasn't too long ago that you were lamenting about this country being a oligarchy whose trajectory did not bode well for the future. 

 

 

I still lament this fact, and relative to racism I feel it is a much bigger problem for Black folks today. 

 

Racism is FAR less of a problem for Black folks that it once was.  I'm not saying racism is nonexistent -- in fact it is I who have been called nigger by white folks, not you.  It is I who has lived in the segregated, dilapidated underserved inner city created by white racist policy, not you. It it I who has been pulled over by white po-po for doing absolutely nothing wrong more times than I can count, not you.  It is I who have deal with racist elits in corporate America who were blind to their own racist-elitism because because they were never around anyone powerful enough to conscious enough to check them -- This all pales in comparison with what my parents went through.

 

@Cynique I assumed you might know what racism actually feels like and could put it into proper historical context.  Seems like as far as actual racism is concerned you are a spectator and don't really understand what being a victim of racism actually feels like and the generational impact that it has on people.

 

I'd MUCH rather live with 45 as president in 2018 than live with Andrew Jackson as president in 1830.  Wouldn't you @Cynique

 

It is true I'm optimistic about the racism decreasing over time -- because it has.  I can also believe that wealth equality will continue to rise, because nothing is currently being done to stop it. These ideas are not incompatible.

 

What I'm struggling to understand is why the fact that racism is less of a problem today that it was just 50 years ago is a point of contention or debate.  @Chevdove do you think racism is worse today when compared to the jim crow era? If so why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Troy said:

How are you arriving at your conclusion of what the black consensus might be? Is it what you see streaming across your facebook feed or some other filter bubble?  What makes you the arbiter of defining who or who is not in the black consensus?

Yes, i am making my statement based on the consensus of social media and its vast volume of input from black people , something you know nothing about since you don't go to these sites.  Do you have some figures or studies to  support your view - other than what some of your associates say?   

 

5 hours ago, Troy said:

 I assumed you might know what racism actually feels like and could put it into proper historical context.  Seems like as far as actual racism is concerned you are a spectator and don't really understand what being a victim of racism actually feels like and the generational impact that it has on people.

 

I'd MUCH rather live with 45 as president in 2018 than live with Andrew Jackson as president in 1830.  Wouldn't you

 Are you serious?? YOU are the one so quick to down play racism and scoff at people who complain about it, implying that they should just overlook slights and be grateful they aren't being lynched.  I empathize with people who become indignant about racial profiling and harassment and you chided me and Chevdove for supporting the condo guy who you thought was silly and should just skulk away and overlook the poor white woman who called the police on him. Then you turn around and say, "... relative to racism I feel it is a much bigger problem for Black folks today." You talk out of both sides of your mouth and, in the maze of your contradictions and anecdotes, attempt to portray me as somebody who is ignorant of racism. Puleeze.  We are apparently not on the same wave length.  And yours is definitely vacillating.

 

6 hours ago, Cynique said:

To me, slavery is slavery, and racism is racism.  One shackled the body, the other tethers the mind. One died, the other is alive and well, in all of its incarnations.

This is where i am coming from  Black people living under slavery didn't know an other life.  Black folks living with racism today are the frustrated personification of "freedom not being free."     

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10 hours ago, Cynique said:

Yes, i am making my statement based on the consensus of social media and its vast volume of input from black people

 

Nuff said. Read about filter bubbles.

 

10 hours ago, Cynique said:

you chided me and Chevdove for supporting the condo guy who you thought was silly

 

Yes, because you are reacting to the social media fueled frenzy not seeing the trival incident it was.

 

10 hours ago, Cynique said:

Black people living under slavery didn't know an other life

 

Read Barracoon: https://aalbc.com/books/bookinfo.php?isbn13=9780062748201 or any nonfiction book about American slavery or try read some slave narratives: https://aalbc.com/search-results.php?cx=017439764859730021228%3Awao9k7jsaba&ie=UTF-8&q=Slave+narratives&sa=Search I'm profoundly surprised by that statement.

 

American slavery is inextricably bound to racism.  

 

The notion we lack freedom is misguided. Our problem is not a lack of freedom, but an unwillingness to use it or seeing imaginary impediments to it.

 

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On 11/7/2018 at 2:19 PM, Troy said:

White on white hostility seems to go back as far as recorded history.  Forget Chicago, something really needs to be done about this "white-on-white" crime 🙂

 

@Troy True!

 

17 hours ago, Troy said:

do you think racism is worse today when compared to the jim crow era?

 

Yes, I absolutely do!

 

17 hours ago, Troy said:

What I'm struggling to understand is why the fact that racism is less of a problem today that it was just 50 years ago is a point of contention or debate.

 

Could it be perspective? Could it be that we have been conditioned and bombarded with methods to block out certain pertinent issues and have made to view them in a way that we don't realize is still a problem?

 

17 hours ago, Troy said:

do you think racism is worse today when compared to the jim crow era? If so why?

 

@Troy Previously, in this thread, you mentioned slavery, then Jim Crow and then being profiled for not having a key fob to enter into our apts as if it is a progession of time that has improved for us AfroAmericans, but this is not how I view it. I am not speaking from fact but general belief for now, but I believe that we need to consider a bigger picture here, in terms of economy too. 

 

When we AfroAmericans exclude the prison system and how Black men and women have been criminalized, locked up, prevented from having adequate income as a result of legal actions and etc., today is not better but worse. Just because technology and other methods has railroaded Black people from not having a voice and being shut up in the system, waiting for a decent attorney or the Democratic Party to be fair, does not mean tht the most of us are better off than the slavery days. 

 

The prison systems is, for me, the elephant in the room. Being shackled during the mid-atlantic slave ship voyage, or being shut in a cell for days, months, years.... which is worse?

 

And . . . I believe this is also due to a streamlined and approved educational system too.

 

5 hours ago, Troy said:

The notion we lack freedom is misguided. Our problem is not a lack of freedom, but an unwillingness to use it or seeing imaginary impediments to it.

 

 

@Troy Maybe for a few, but you can't beleive this would be true for all?

 

21 hours ago, Troy said:

But lets be clear rich white men exert a great deal of control, a few elected officials, while a step in the right direction is not the solution.  Real power needs to be wrested from these people and that will take a lot more action than we've, collectively, demonstrated a willingness to exert.

 

True!!

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@TroyAre we done yet?  if i listened to you, i would think everybody but you is living in a bubble, all of us guilty of not being able to look through the transparency of the bubble and put things in perspective, while compartmentalizing our lives in order to diversify our experiences, from time to time allowing  ourselves to  let down our guards and indulge in whatever gratifies us!  Unlike a killjoy like you whose peripheral vision is blocked and who expects every one else to lead a Spartan existence while you arrogantly  put down everything that doesn't conform to your preferences, even as you wrestle with the pessimistic optimism that leaves you vacillating in a limbo fraught with ambivalence. 

 

 And who knew, that during their 400 years of bondage all the slaves were apparently leading double lives, experiencing the perks of being free???  Or did i ever say that today we don't have freedom.  I said: "freedom is not free", something you should have a clue about as much as you gripe about the restraints put on you by the powers that be. 

 

I appreciate your intellectualizing the subjects we've been discussing, alerting the great unwashed masses to the hidden dangers of this wicked world.  Yet, instead of you utilizing the vast social media audience to get out the message you think they should hear,  you scorn and leave these commoners to the ignorance of their bliss.  You  prefer to align yourself with the anonymous community  that also rejects Twitter, FaceBook, The Media, etc, -  the segment of America you seem convinced thinks the same as you do.  That is your bubble.

 

5 hours ago, Chevdove said:

The prison systems is, for me, the elephant in the room. Being shackled during the mid-atlantic slave ship voyage, or being shut in a cell for days, months, years.... which is worse?

 

Indeed. the privatizing of the prison systems where inmates, the majority of whom are black, are used to perform slave labor for as little as 32 cents an hour, is a glaring example of  how the more things change, the more  they have become the same in post racial America, the other side of the coin Troy flips when reminding us of how far we have come.    

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3 hours ago, Cynique said:

Unlike a killjoy like you whose peripheral vision is blocked and who expects every one else to lead a Spartan existence while you arrogantly  put down everything that doesn't conform to your preferences, even as you wrestle with the pessimistic optimism that leaves you vacillating in a limbo fraught with ambivalence

 

Lol! Classic Cynique! Okay we are done.

 

While the mass incarcerstion of black people is terrible it damn sure aint worse than shattle slavery.  I just dont get y'all

 

@Chevdove, (anyone) Please do the following; rank these 3 years in the order you would prefer to raise yout family here in the US: where most prfered is number 1 and least preffered is nunber 3.

  • 1817
  • 1917
  • 2017

Thanks. Your response us help me understand if we are occupying the same space/time continuum.

 

My response is 

  1. 2017
  2. 1917
  3. 1817

 

 

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@Troy  Of course everyone would agree with your choice.  Black people can only imagine how slavery was, and southern  Jim Crowism officially ended with the passage of the Civil Rights act 50 years ago.   In the present, the only thing blacks can relate to is what they experience. When they experience having their freedom compromised by racial discrimination, they resent being denied what they feel entitled to as citizens of a country which supposedly guarantees freedom, justice, and equality for all.   Being expected to gratefully settle for whatever they get, doesn't set right with them, and they use whatever means necessary to protest this affront to their liberty.  All of which leaves you overreacting to their overreacting... 🤨

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2 hours ago, Cynique said:

Being expected to gratefully settle for whatever they get, doesn't set right with them,

 

This is the essence of what I gripe about all the time regarding the web. I guess the complaints one has are subjective and relative.

 

Most people can't understand my bitching about facebook, amazon, and google henceforth to be reffered to as "FAG," indeed expecting me to be happy i have many followers and both amazon and google send me checks every month.

 

Ill be less critical of what people complain about moving foward, but i'll continue to contend that the media, particularly social, aggitate (in the bad way) people for profit.

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On 11/9/2018 at 5:47 PM, Troy said:

While the mass incarcerstion of black people is terrible it damn sure aint worse than shattle slavery.  I just dont get y'all

 

@Troy Wait! Let's back up a little . . . the ancient scripts written by ancient authors, human beings, all point to the PRISON SYSTEM 'today' . . . in the futre, . . as being much worse than slavery, but you just don't get it!?

 

There are many forms of human sacrifice and various forms of captivity, enslavement, including chattel slavery, but still all scripts point to being imprisoned as being much worse than being enslaved, but Troy, you just don't get it!?  . . . umh. . . 

 

 

On 11/9/2018 at 5:47 PM, Troy said:

(anyone) Please do the following; rank these 3 years in the order you would prefer to raise yout family here in the US: where most prfered is number 1 and least preffered is nunber 3.

  • 1817
  • 1917
  • 2017

 

My answer would be as follows:

 

#3 1817

#3 1917

#3 2017

 

HERE IN THE US vs ANYWHERE IN THIS WORLD; my answer would be as follows;

#1 There must be an overhaul of all global systems

#2 THE US is not HEAVEN for everyone just a few select Democrats and REpublicans, so there must be an overhaul of the Amercian system

#3 My husband and his father and his fathers are NATIVE AMERICANS so, I say there must be an overhaul of this bait and switch government

 

Whether a person was killed during chattel slavery or during modern prison system should not be the basis of a survey of which times were the best under this White Supremacists and their government. @Troy White people are not all that good as you think, whether yesterday under their chattel slavery system or today under their prison system. However, their prison system is a step DOWN/UP from their chattel slavery system because they have refined it better to get people to accept them as being in charge. 

It would be good for Black African people to start thinking differently. We don't have to exist like this! 

 

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36 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

. . . the ancient scripts written by ancient authors, human beings, all point to the PRISON SYSTEM 'today' . . . in the futre, . . as being much worse than slavery, but you just don't get it!?

 

No, I dont get it.

 

As far as all the stuff about the "ancient scripts" you've used to substantiate your argument, im not impressed.  Where'd you get that stuff anyway? 

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On 11/15/2018 at 11:25 PM, Troy said:

As far as all the stuff about the "ancient scripts" you've used to substantiate your argument, im not impressed.  Where'd you get that stuff anyway? 

 

@Troy One main source of ancient script that I refer to is The Book of Isaiah. He wrote about 'prisons' and 'captivity'. 

But then, I realize I did contradict myself; in rating which form of human sacrifice is worse.

I think that this is the problem; rating which forms of human sacrifice si worse. 

I think that a penal system is crucial based on reality, but as a result, it has also been abused and used for human sacrifice. 

i think that for us today to rate Chattel slavery vs the prison system is a big mistake though, and as a result, we as African Americans have become 'the lukewarm wall' that keeps this flawed system moving onward in the worst way. 

 

HISTORY IS A WEAPON

Slavery and Prison- Understanding the Connections

By Kim Gilmore



"I'M BEGINNING TO BELIEVE THAT `U.S.A.' STANDS FOR THE UNDERPRIVILEGED Slaves of America" (Esposito and Wood, 1982: 149), wrote a 20th-century prisoner from Mississippi in a letter detailing the daily violence he witnessed behind prison walls. His statement resounds with a long tradition of prisoners, particularly African-American prisoners, who have used the language and narrative of slavery to describe the conditions of their imprisonment. In the year 2000, as the punishment industry becomes a leading employer and producer for the U.S. "state," and as private prison and "security" corporations bargain to control the profits of this traffic in human unfreedom, the analogies between slavery and prison abound. This year the U.S. prison population cascaded past 2,000,000, 1 with millions more under the jurisdiction of the criminal justice system in local jails awaiting trial, in INS prisons awaiting deportation, or in their homes linked with criminal justice authorities through ankle bracelets that track their every move. Recent studies of the prison boom stress the persistent disparities in sentencing according to race -- prison populations continue to be disproportionately African American and Latino. With longer sentences being imposed for nonviolent drug offenses, with aggressive campaigns aimed at criminalizing young people, and with the growing number of children left orphaned by the criminal justice system, the carceral reach of the state and private corporations resonates with the history of slavery and marks a level of human bondage unparalleled in the 20th century. ...

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/gilmoreprisonslavery.html

 

"HUMAN BONDAGE"

 "Unparalleled in the 20th century."

Michelle Alexander: More Black Men Are In Prison Today Than Were Enslaved In 1850

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/michelle-alexander-more-black-men-in-prison-slaves-1850_n_1007368.html

 

Edited by Chevdove
graphics

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