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A Classy Discussion


Pioneer1

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There are 6 distinct classes in the United States.

 

 

Aristocratic
These are people worth over a billion dollars and are generally out of reach from the public or media.
They heavily influence politics and social policy

 


Rich
These are people worth over $15 million in assets.
They either don't work or don't have to work if they don't want to and can live comfortable off thier savings and interests for the rest of their lives.  Usually their children can too.
These are usually heirs, major business owners, very successful professionals, entertainers, ect..

Believe it or not education isn't a big factors in this class.

 


Professional (Upper Middle Class)
These are people who still have to work for a living but can go 6 months without any income and still maintain their lifestyle
They are are generally well educated professionals like doctors, attorneys, authors, engineers, ect.
But they also include lesser educated people like self-made small business owners.
Depending on one's expenses and region of the nation, the professional class starts at around $75,000 a year for a single adult.

With the exception of self-made business owners, these people usually have a Master's Degree or higher.

 


Working (Lower Middle Class)

Like the Professional class these people also work for a living but generally can't go a month without receiving some sort of income or they'll be in trouble.

These are the BACK-BONE of society and what an ideal society would have for the majority of it's workforce.
These range from construction and factory workers to nurses, police officers, postal workers, ect..
This starts at around $40,000 for a single adult depending on region

Most have SOME college education but rarely have a degree above a Bachelors

 

 

Poor

These are people who BARELY have the basics of food, clothing, and shelter.
They work sporadically or work very low wage jobs, usually in the service industry

These are the people working at McDonalds, car washes, temp agencies, and in many cases...not working at all.
They usually have a little or no college education and in come cases didn't even graduate from high school.
They make anywhere from $10,000 a year to $40,000.
These expenses are as sporadic as their income because they usually aren't staying on their own but shacking up with lovers, relatives, bouncing from place to place.

 


Destitute

These are people at the very bottom of the socio-economic ladder
Your homeless, chronic drug addicts, petty criminals, ect...
They can't even afford the basic necessities.
Most have SOME clothes but finding shelter and enough food and medical care is a constantly struggle and in come cases none existent.
 

 


*******************************************************************************************************************************************

 

 

 

 

Within each of these classes, there are numerous subgroups based on career field, education, race, ect....


Now ofcourse these classes aren't set in stone and they often overlap eachother. But they are still pretty standard and over 99% of adults fall in one of these categories.
 

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I don't totally agree with you self-styled  categorizations.   Have you checked the definition of the word "aristocrat" - which is not a common designation in America. Aristocrat: A member of a ruling class or of the nobility. 2. A person having the tastes, manners, or other characteristics of the aristocracy.    Definition of aristocracy: the highest social class in some countries : the people who have special titles (such as duke and duchess), 

 

You're using money to define class.  Money can't buy class. e.g. there's a difference between middleclass and middle income. They have different value systems. There are plenty of families who aren't billionaires but whose members were born with "silver spoons in their mouths" and have inherited wealth and property, and have the  "blue blood" running through their veins that qualifies them to be upper class.

 

There are first generation billionaires who do not have distinguished family blood lines.  Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos  are not high class. They are just filthy rich. 

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Cynique

 

 

I don't totally agree with you self-styled  categorizations.   Have you checked the definition of the word "aristocrat" - which is not a common designation in America. Aristocrat: A member of a ruling class or of the nobility. 2. A person having the tastes, manners, or other characteristics of the aristocracy.    Definition of aristocracy: the highest social class in some countries : the people who have special titles (such as duke and duchess), 

 

Seems to me MY definition of Aristocrat lines up nicely with the definition you just provided.

It's the wealthiest class of people in society.
They are a member of the ruling class.
The TRUE ruling class...not the figureheads you see on television.

 

It just so happens that in Kingdoms, the Aristocrats are also the Nobility or part of the Royal Family since they control the money and wealth.
Since we don't have an official "royal family" in the United States, it's divided among families like the Kennedy's, the Fords, the Rockafellars, the Koch's, ect...

 

 

 

You're using money to define class.  Money can't buy class. e.g. there's a difference between middleclass and middle income. 

 

Money isn't the ONLY factor that determines class in the United States...but it's the biggest factor.

 

 

 

 

They have different value systems. There are plenty of families who aren't billionaires but whose members were born with "silver spoons in their mouths" and have inherited wealth and property, and have the  "blue blood" running through their veins that qualifies them to be upper class.

 

True.
Did I say they weren't?

There are 3 "upper classes" according to my Class Categorization.


Aristocrat
Rich
Professional

As of right now, a person doesn't have to be worth a billion to be considered rich in America.
 

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Of course, I should've remembered that in Pioneervill , you control  what the world has been waiting to hear. I'm sure economists and sociologists, in particular have been waiting with bated breath for you to supply this information so that can include it in their curricula and text books.   

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3 hours ago, Cynique said:

Of course, I should've remembered that in Pioneervill , you control  what the world has been waiting to hear. I'm sure economists and sociologists, in particular have been waiting with bated breath for you to supply this information so that can include it in their curricula and text books.   

 


Well if they're not......they should!

 

 

 

Black Professors Sues HBCU for Discrimination | Nu Origins Magazine


"Alright, the first thing you need to learn is you don't know anything!

You've been lied to by these racist devils.
I'm about to tell you the TRUTH about life!"

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

"Alright, the first thing you need to learn is you don't know anything!

You've been lied to by these racist devils.
I'm about to tell you the TRUTH about life!"

 

 

White Supremists can't wait to crush you like a roach. 

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Within a system of racism, class or status might make black folks feel better about themselves depending on where they reside within the structure until they come across racist(s) to whom none of it matters. They only see one thing.  It kinda reminds me of n8gglets who come home and brag about running the prison.😁😎

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Cynique

 


White Supremists can't wait to crush you like a roach. 


I see you've been keeping company with your NEW friends....since divorcing yourself from the Black race...lol.

 

 


 

dirty south

"Yall can't tell me nothing.
My great great great grand daddy was a White slave owner from the South
 so this is MY heritage too!"

 

 


 

 

 

 

ProfD

 

 

Within a system of racism, class or status might make black folks feel better about themselves depending on where they reside within the structure until they come across racist(s) to whom none of it matters. They only see one thing.  It kinda reminds me of n8gglets who come home and brag about running the prison

 

But even in The Shawshank Redemption....Andy was able to secure some favors for himself by getting in good with the Warden and writing to the governor.

Even in GREATER confinement...there are status levels that will dramatically increase one's comfort.

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17 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Within a system of racism, class or status might make black folks feel better about themselves depending on where they reside within the structure until they come across racist(s) to whom none of it matters. They only see one thing.  It kinda reminds me of n8gglets who come home and brag about running the prison

 

But even in The Shawshank Redemption....Andy was able to secure some favors for himself by getting in good with the Warden and writing to the governor.

Even in GREATER confinement...there are status levels that will dramatically increase one's comfort.

Sure. Yet, no amount of comfort absolves the fact that they're still in prison. 

 

But, the idea of being comfortable while imprisoned is a case study in itself. More than likely, it runs in parallel with Stockholm syndrome.

 

IMO, that is the greatest accomplishment of the system of racism. Folks believing they are free on a mental an/or physical level especially when buoyed by the illusion of class and/or status. 

 

Hopefully it never happens but when the police pull you over while driving a Bentley in the Hamptons and says, boy, get yo azz outta the car....class and/or status goes outta the window. 😁😎

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I was raised in the Working Class (Lower Middle Class).

 

 

NeighborHUB Grant Program - Detroit Regional Chamber

Neither of my Parent's went to college, but they came along at a time when college wasn't necessary to secure good paying long lasting jobs that offered benefits.

I was raised in a Working Class Black neighborhood where MOST of the parents had good paying blue collar jobs working in factories.
They were able to buy property, send their children to school (often for nothing because the degrees were often useless), and some of the men even had enough money to support mistresses outside of their marriage....like the movie Fences.
 

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As I re-read through the definitions of class, while the environment in which someone is physically raised has it's advantages and disdvantages, where that individual aspires to be mentally and works hard to achieve is most important. 

 

A rose can grow up through concrete as evidenced by any number of scholars, entertainers and athletes who've started on the bottom or near it and ascended to another class. 

 

On the flip side, there are folks like Paris Hilton, the Menendez brothers  and Kar-Trashians and countless others who start on a higher rung of the ladder and do everything they can to climb down to varying degrees.

 

IMO, class is a state of mind in as much as it is an entitlement and/or condition.  Folks can jump and skip classes as they so choose to do.  Just a matter of effort.  Overcoming the hurdle of racism is taller order. 😎

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ProfD

 


A rose can grow up through concrete as evidenced by any number of scholars, entertainers and athletes who've started on the bottom or near it and ascended to another class. 

 

These are people who are exceptionally talented; either mentally or physically.

People with high IQs, every strong and coordinated so they excell in sports, or have great musical abilities.

They make up less than 20% of the general population.

 

 

 

Folks can jump and skip classes as they so choose to do.  Just a matter of effort.

 

A matter of effort for those with exceptional abilities.
Infact, I would say it's less about their efforts and more about their innate abilities they already had.

 

Can those with NORMAL abilities jump and skip classes?
Sure it's POSSIBLE...but not likely for most.

I'd say less than 10% of those with NORMAL abilities will...for one reason or another..jump to a higher class.

 

Usually people of NORMAL abilities jump to higher classes through:

-Marrying someone of a higher class
-Hitting the lottery or inheriting a large some of money
-The fortune of having a lot of sheer energy to work hard and save and study to climb and scape and climb to a higher status.  Something most people don't have.

And after all that they still run the risk of falling back down to the class they were born in if they don't play their cards right and properly invest and establish connections while they have the opportunity.

Too many things happen in this life today for the average person to just "work hard and save" himself up the economic ladder.
Legal problems.
Medical problems.
High rent
Car notes
Downsizing
Boyfriend/girlfriend
Insurance (medical and auto)

 

How many people have the time and luxury of working 80 hours a week for 20 years to get themselves out of one class to the next?

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2 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Can those with NORMAL abilities jump and skip classes?
Sure it's POSSIBLE...but not likely for most.

I'd say less than 10% of those with NORMAL abilities will...for one reason or another..jump to a higher class.

 

-The fortune of having a lot of sheer energy to work hard and save and study to climb and scape and climb to a higher status.  Something most people don't have.

And after all that they still run the risk of falling back down to the class they were born in if they don't play their cards right and properly invest and establish connections while they have the opportunity.

How many people have the time and luxury of working 80 hours a week for 20 years to get themselves out of one class to the next?

Well my brotha, without getting too personal and/or specific, I'll just type that many people have done it especially moving from poverty/low/working class up to middle class.

 

Folks have done it by putting their nose to the grind whether it is education, starting a business, working a job, turning dope money into legal tender, etc.

 

Another Rakim quotable, "it's ain't where you from, it's where you at". There are many people who have dreamed and worked their way up in class.  Again, I know this for a fact.

 

As I've mentioned in a few threads, I believe the the middle class in America has been expanded in order to anesthetize the masses. 

 

There is a small percentage of people in the top and bottom classes and huge swath somewhere in the expanded middle class. 

 

IMO, class in America has been refined in such a way to keep folks dazed and confused just enough without tearing the country apart.  😎

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ProfD

 


Well my brotha, without getting too personal and/or specific, I'll just type that many people have done it especially moving from poverty/low/working class up to middle class.

 

I don't disagree with this.
It can happen and does happen.
Maybe you're a prime example...I'm not sure.

 

But as with my argument about Cynique's "fool proof" method of improving one's socio-economic status...how many HAVE improved their status by this method?
 

Out of the tens of millions of poor and lower middle class people...how many have the intelligence and energy to work hard, grind, and stay of trouble hoping everything falls in place and raised their condition?


Again, I'm not asking how many CAN do it.
Ofcourse we know some CAN do it.
But how many HAVE done it...what percentage?
10?
20?
50?

 

I'd like to stay away from ABSTRACT and THEORETICAL concepts in this particular post like "potentially" or "they can do it if they try hard enough"...and focus more on what HAS happened.

We can argue for 30 years over what people CAN do if all the conditions are met and they try hard enough.

What have we SEEN people do and HOW MUCH of the population has been able to do it under those same conditions?

 

 

 

 

 

As I've mentioned in a few threads, I believe the the middle class in America has been expanded in order to anesthetize the masses. 

 

I believe so too.

I believe this was a TARGETED expansion.


They took away much of the good paying factory and other manufacturing jobs that poor people would get to bring themselves up out of poverty into the lower part of the Middle Class.

But they made access to college more accessible through student loans as well as producing more corporate jobs.

 

But this changed benefited Caucasians and Asians FAR more than it benefitted AfroAmericans.

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45 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Out of the tens of millions of poor and lower middle class people...how many have the intelligence and energy to work hard, grind, and stay of trouble hoping everything falls in place and raised their condition?


I'd like to stay away from ABSTRACT and THEORETICAL concepts in this particular post like "potentially" or "they can do it if they try hard enough"...and focus more on what HAS happened.

Between 1990 and 2020, black folks living below the poverty line has gone from 29.3% to 16.8%.

 

In 1990, the US population was 252M of which about 35M were black folks.  At 29.3%, that would have been 10M black folks living below the poverty line.

 

Today, there are 38M Americans living in poverty today.  At 16.8%, that would be 6M black folks.  

 

Over 30 years, the number of black folks living below the poverty line has gone down by 4M.

 

Something has happened to pull folks up and expand the middle class.  I'll go with education, hard work, grinding, opportunities and luck for $200. 😁😎

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ProfD


Ok now you're gonna find out why Troy often finds discussions with me so frustrating:

I don't trust those statistics because they don't line up with what I see.


Those stats may say ONE thing about Black poverty but what I've actually SEEN from living around the nation is a totally different story.

I've seen far more homeless Black people today than 30 years ago.

Less Black people actually OWN their homes today than 30 years ago.
There may be more Black folks with MORTGAGES than there were 30 years ago but how many of them are keeping up with the payments and paying them off?

There are FAR fewer Black people with good paying blue collar jobs today than there were back in the 1970s.

More Black people are incarcerated in prisons and jails today than they were 30 years ago before the 1994 crime bill also.
 

So it doesn't make a lot of since for poverty to be lower or cut in  half.


It's like those unemployment statistics.
They only COUNT a tiny sector of people who have been unemployed for less than 6 months and actively seeking work and focus on THAT sector, ignoring the millions of long term unemployed.

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52 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:


ProfD


Ok now you're gonna find out why Troy often finds discussions with me so frustrating:

I don't trust those statistics because they don't line up with what I see.


Those stats may say ONE thing about Black poverty but what I've actually SEEN from living around the nation is a totally different story.

I've seen far more homeless Black people today than 30 years ago.

Less Black people actually OWN their homes today than 30 years ago.
There may be more Black folks with MORTGAGES than there were 30 years ago but how many of them are keeping up with the payments and paying them off?

There are FAR fewer Black people with good paying blue collar jobs today than there were back in the 1970s.

More Black people are incarcerated in prisons and jails today than they were 30 years ago before the 1994 crime bill also.
 

So it doesn't make a lot of since for poverty to be lower or cut in  half.

No frustration here.  I'm here for the dialog.

 

As you say, walk with me...😁

 

Forget about the fact that there are 4M less folks living below the poverty line.

 

The reality that 6M or more black folks are living below the poverty line is still a huge problem

 

In perspective, that is the equivalent of 75% of the entire population of New York City.

 

I'm only illustrating that poverty has not increased over time.  

 

As we have already discussed, there's a reason for more homeless folks on the street.  Closed institutions and shelters in favor of prisons.

 

Job opportunities and lower interest rates and inflated credit scores have allowed more black folks to take out mortgages. 

 

Debt management is the name of the game.  Fewer folks look to pay off their homes.  Instead, they use the equity to buy a bigger house, vehicles, vacations, etc.   They realize a home is a bank and rental property into perpetuity.

 

Good paying blue collar jobs have been outsourced to other countries since the late 1980s.  Robotics are taking over here in America. 

 

The new blue collar worker is in a warehouse or driving around making deliveries.  Otherwise, more folks are sitting in office buildings shuffling papers around.

 

Another reason poverty is down is because many folks who could be classified as such are shacking up and living with family members, friends, relatives, etc. 😎

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32 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

I've seen far more homeless Black people today than 30 years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

************************************************************************************

 

 

@Pioneer1 and @ProfD

 

 

The Census Bureau doesn't even have an accurate method 

of counting the homeless, they count people who show up 

for a meal somewhere, and then they try to count the people

who live in tent cities and such.  

 

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/factsheets/2020/dec/census-counts-homeless.pdf

 

Clearly they are missing all the people that are sleeping in 

their cars and wherever.  Then there's all the  homeless

people who have jobs, who counts them.

 

I believe that the government fudges the numbers on

those types of statistics so that things don't seem so

bleak to the rest of us.  

 

As to those living in poverty, you can't just go by income 

because you have people making a good salary but for 

whatever reason they are still broke and living like they 

are poor.

 

I don't trust most of these government statistics.  At all.

 

 

************************************************************************************

 

 

 

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Ok now you're gonna find out why Troy often finds discussions with me so frustrating:

I don't trust those statistics because they don't line up with what I see.

 

Frustration might be a strong description, but what makes your arguments weak is that you based them solely on your personal anecdotes.  When you do cite a source to support your argument it is either does not in fact support your argument or the source unreputable.

 

The idea that, "Between 1990 and 2020, black folks living below the poverty line has gone from 29.3% to 16.8%." take at it's face is a big win.  

 

I don't know enough about the poverty statistics to know if they are meaningful.  For example, during that 30 year people incarceration rate increased are people in jail counted in the poverty rate calculations?  Removing a large section of the population, who would more than likely be Black and in poverty would make the number look better.

 

How has the poverty level changed over past 30 years?  How has the level changed relative to the inflation rate has it kept pace?

 

Is Mzuri point accurate?

 

24 minutes ago, Mzuri said:

they count people who show up for a meal somewhere, and then they try to count the people who live in tent cities and such.  

 

If that is true then the numbers would be little better than a guess, so I doubt the number are collected in such a rudimentary fashion and certainly would not be expressed to the 10th of a percent accuracy. I suspect the numbers were taken from census data and a variety of other sources like income from tax returns.  

 

No one thinks the government's numbers are perfect -- perfection is impossible. What is odd, to me, is that folks would completely reject the government's numbers in favor their clearly limited personal observations.

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22 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

Is Mzuri point accurate?

 

If that is true then the numbers would be little better than a guess, so I doubt the number are collected in such a rudimentary fashion and certainly would not be expressed to the 10th of a percent accuracy. I suspect the numbers were taken from census data and a variety of other sources like income from tax returns.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Mzuri said:

 

they count people who show up for a meal somewhere, and then they try to count the people who live in tent cities and such.

 

 

 

Is my point accurate regarding the homeless?

 

That is what's stated on the Census Bureau document entitled,

 

"How the 2020 Census Counts People Experiencing Homelessness"

 

Which I posted a link to.

 

On top of that, the Census takers only devote 3 days to the effort of counting

the homeless, so I doubt they are getting accurate numbers.

 

Besides not wanting the citizens to know, the U.S. government probably doesn't

want other nations to know how abysmal things are here, and how mismanaged 

and clusterfucked the government really is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Beyond the minutiae of who's being counted or not, whether its 38M or 50M or 100M people living below poverty, maybe we can agree that it's way too many people. 

 

Then, we have to ask the questions:

 

1) why are there so many people living below the poverty line in a wealthy,  developed country

 

2) what can Americans do to lift their brethren out of poverty

 

3) do people in poverty want a a better life and what are they willing to do in order to realize it

 

The fact that poverty hovers under 10% of the population leads me to believe it's being managed like a business. 

 

As mentioned in another thread, social services thrives off the poor, homeless and helpless. So does the criminal justice system and others.😎

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25 minutes ago, ProfD said:

 

Beyond the minutiae of who's being counted or not, whether its 38M or 50M or 100M people living below poverty, maybe we can agree that it's way too many people.

 

 

 

@ProfD

 

 

I agree with you but if the government is going to spend billions on

those census counts, those numbers should be more accurate.

 

Otherwise they should stop miscounting people, and instead use

that money to actually help people in need.  

 

I also read that their poverty threshold was developed in the 1960s.

 

It's even worse than we thought, the article I linked below says 

that half of all American workers made less than $35K.

 

And that was before the COVID lockdowns, shutdowns, and 

vax mandates that had people quitting their jobs.

 

Half of American Workers Made Less Than $35,000 in 2019

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ProfD

 

 


I'm only illustrating that poverty has not increased over time.  

 

Yes, I know what you're saying.
My point is...I think it actually has, but they're playing with the figures to make it seem like things are getting better.

 

 

 

 

 

As we have already discussed, there's a reason for more homeless folks on the street.  Closed institutions and shelters in favor of prisons.

 

Right.
Same people in poverty.
It didn't reduce...it just SHIFTED from the streets to the prisons.

 

 

 

 

Job opportunities and lower interest rates and inflated credit scores have allowed more black folks to take out mortgages. 

 

I think the lower interest rates and inflated credit scores along with the mortgage loan scandals prior to 2008 deserves more credit than more job opportunities...lol.

 
 

 

 

 

Good paying blue collar jobs have been outsourced to other countries since the late 1980s.  Robotics are taking over here in America. 

 

Facts
 

 

 

 

The new blue collar worker is in a warehouse or driving around making deliveries.  Otherwise, more folks are sitting in office buildings shuffling papers around.

 

More facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And both of those blue collar jobs you mentioned require LESS workers than an assembly line.


🤔So LESS blue collar jobs available...but the population has increases dramatically since 1990....so how does the poverty rate go DOWN with fewer blue collar jobs?

 

 

 


 

Another reason poverty is down is because many folks who could be classified as such are shacking up and living with family members, friends, relatives, etc

.

Then I must give the same reasons as was given to the homeless to prison explaination.
That means that the population in poverty hasn't gone down...or even remained the same.
That simply means it has SHIFTED.


From struggling alone....to struggling together.
But the poverty rate remains the same.

 

 

 

 

 

1) why are there so many people living below the poverty line in a wealthy,  developed country

 

Because they need a constant supply of cheap labor.
Both on the outside and in the prisons.

 

 

 

2) what can Americans do to lift their brethren out of poverty

 

Another New Deal like Roosevelt had.

 

 

 

 

 

3) do people in poverty want a a better life and what are they willing to do in order to realize it

 

Some do...some don't.
But it's the government's responsibility to have the necessarily programs in place for those who DO want it to take advantage.

 

 

 

 

The fact that poverty hovers under 10% of the population leads me to believe it's being managed like a business. 

 

I personally think the poverty rate is MUCH higher than that.

Look at how many MILLIONS of people have recently been evicted for not being able to pay rent, and the millions who were just kicked off of unemployment.

I think it's closer to 20% of the population or perhaps more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mzuri

 


The Census Bureau doesn't even have an accurate method 
of counting the homeless, they count people who show up 
for a meal somewhere, and then they try to count the people
who live in tent cities and such.  

 

Clearly they are missing all the people that are sleeping in 
their cars and wherever.  Then there's all the  homeless
people who have jobs, who counts them.

 

👏Exactly!


You go to a Walmart in the morning and you'll see so many cars in the parking lot with people sleeping in them.
Even many of their WORKERS are homeless and sleeping in their cars!
But you have others who are just homeless and living out their cars in the Walmart parking lot and other parking lots.

 

 




I don't trust most of these government statistics.  At all.

 

I don't either.
These people are KNOWN liars with a reliable history of lying to the people.

 

 

 


It's even worse than we thought, the article I linked below says 

that half of all American workers made less than $35K.


That puts people squarely IN the poor category....even if they have no children.

Unless they are living with someone taking care of their bills OR living in a very cheap area...$35,000 a year is BARELY enough to take care of yourself and live independently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr. Snarky


Lol.....

 


but what makes your arguments weak is that you based them solely on your personal anecdotes. 

 

In my opinion....if the person is trustworthy...that makes an even STRONGER argument.
I'd trust the information coming from a person who has a reputation for being honest and telling the truth, before I'd trust it from a bunch of numbers and stats that come from who knows where.  


I'm not gullible enough to believe everything the government tells me.

 

 

 

 

What is odd, to me, is that folks would completely reject the government's numbers in favor their clearly limited personal observations.

 

Because a personal observation MIGHT be correct, or close to it.
When the governments numbers might be completely fabricated.
They have a habit of lying.

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11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And both of those blue collar jobs you mentioned require LESS workers than an assembly line.


So LESS blue collar jobs available...but the population has increases dramatically since 1990....so how does the poverty rate go DOWN with fewer blue collar jobs?

2) what can Americans do to lift their brethren out of poverty

 

Another New Deal like Roosevelt had.

 

3) do people in poverty want a a better life and what are they willing to do in order to realize it

 

Some do...some don't.
But it's the government's responsibility to have the necessarily programs in place for those who DO want it to take advantage.

 

It's even worse than we thought, the article I linked below says 

that half of all American workers made less than $35K.


That puts people squarely IN the poor category....even if they have no children.

Unless they are living with someone taking care of their bills OR living in a very cheap area...$35,000 a year is BARELY enough to take care of yourself and live independently.

 

Hispanic folks have taken over the blue collar labor force.  They are doing the work AfroAmericans used to do.

 

America looked very different under the New Deal.  It pulled white folks out of the Great Depression. 

 

The infrastructure plan the current adminstration is proposing could be a step in the direction of a New Deal.  I'm curious to see who will actually benefit from it.
 

An individual cannot afford to live independently on $35K/per year when the  median household income in American is $67K.  However, two or more people working together making $35K/year each should be able to live above the poverty line. 

 

A group of people should be doing everything within their power (knowledge, skills and abilities) to build and support an infrastructure that helps each other. Hispanics are working that program like a well-oiled machine. 

 

I see several Hispanic adults with menial jobs and children to raise living under one roof.  I remember when AfroAmericans used to do the same thing.

 

In addition to a lack of knowledge and a strong work ethic, some of the  biggest impediments to success are excuses, insolence, ignorance and stupidity.  IMO, the number one impediment is waiting

 

A grown azz person cannot afford to wait on  someone or something else to pull them up regardless of whether it is an individual, public or private business, federal, state or local government, etc.

 

Why We Can't Wait by Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Again, AfroAmericans have the responsibility of producing an economic environment that pulls our people out of poverty.  It's not going happen if we wait .😎

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14 hours ago, ProfD said:

The fact that poverty hovers under 10% of the population leads me to believe it's being managed like a business. 

 

I would think this number would be higher, but since I'm most familiar with the Black community I realize my perspective is biased based upon my experience.  The US Census Bureau reported that the official poverty rate in 2020 was 11.4 percent.  For Black people it is 19.5% which sounds about right given my personal experience. 

 

The idea that 1 out of 5 Black people, in 2020 America, are living the poverty (using this government's own definition) is ALARMING!  The question is what are we gonna do about it?

 

14 hours ago, Mzuri said:

Is my point accurate regarding the homeless?

 

Mzuri as you might imagine I'm now resultant to check your sources, because they have not panned out this far.  I can see that you posted a link to the Census Bureau, a valid source.  I read the page.  Based upon your statements you clearly do not trust the government on any level. Your interpretation based upon how you shared their information, on how they count people is reflected by this world view.  

 

Again, it is obvious that the numbers are not perfect, but given the things they are doing I'm not getting the impression that they are trying to deceive or missing large swaths of the homeless population.  The numbers they are already sharing regarding Black poverty are dire enough.  If they are trying to fudge number to make things look better they are not doing a very good job.

 

26 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Again, AfroAmericans have the responsibility of producing an economic environment that pulls our people out of poverty. 

 

At the end of the day, this is what we must do.  The question is will we do it.  There groups in in Tulsa trying to just that very thing.  There are also groups in NY City as well.

 

The problem is the masses are not doing very much to help. They largely support white businesses -- to a fault.  They buy everything from Amazon.  They can be bothered to support a Black owned business.  They give Facebook all their information and spend all day on the platform, and won't even signing up with a Black site.

 

We enrich white sites with our money and time, while at the same time complain that Black sites are not as good?!

 

Now I'm obviously not talking about anyone reading this right now, but y'all represent a small fraction of what is possible. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Troy said:

The problem is the masses are not doing very much to help. They largely support white businesses -- to a fault.  

 

They can be bothered to support a Black owned business. 

 

We enrich white sites with our money and time, while at the same time complain that Black sites are not as good?!

Black-owned businesses have a harder time competing because it is cost prohibitive

 

It's hard to get most people to pay $20 for an item selling for $5 at XYZ store.

 

Everything ties back to infrastructure and vertical integration which ironically is supply chain.

 

We have to be able to produce goods and services at a cheaper cost in order to make it more attractive to the consumer. 

 

That requires strategic partnerships that allow us to get better pricing on raw materials, processing, distribution, etc.

 

Above I mentioned Hispanics having a lock on group economics when it comes to making ends meet. 

 

Well, Asians have mastered supply chain economics in producing goods and providing services.  That's how they are kicking azz when it comes to producing  a lot of sh8t cheaply, dry cleaning, nail salons and food establishments.

 

AfroAmericans need to to pool their resources, buy in bulk, produce goods and sell them at a price point that is both consumer friendly and profitable.

 

It's a tall order but not impossible.  We just have to map out a plan and execute it insteading of waiting and relying on Mr. Charlie and his colder ice.😎

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30 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

Mzuri as you might imagine I'm now resultant to check your sources, because they have not panned out this far.  I can see that you posted a link to the Census Bureau, a valid source.  I read the page.  Based upon your statements you clearly do not trust the government on any level. Your interpretation based upon how you shared their information, on how they count people is reflected by this world view.  

 

 

************************************************************************************

 

@Troy

 

I'm not imagining anything about it since I

couldn't care less whether you look at the

link or not. 

 

It makes me no difference.

 

You seem to think that my credibility is

diminished because I posted a link that you

somehow determined was bullshit, since

you disagreed with the valid point I was

making, and you had no other argument

than to post about the website's registrar 

duration.    

 

I'm not an internet website background

check investigator and neither are you. 

That is what the FCC is for.  That's their

job.  If you think the site is engaged in

criminal activity, report it to them.  

 

My view about the federal government 

stems from the fact that I was employed

by the Department of the Army for twenty 

years and I witnessed Army officials

deliberately falsifying the numbers on

official government documents on

multiple occasions.

 

All of that info is classified since it relates 

to troop strength and numbers and other

sensitive information so I cannot go into

further detail.

 

Why don't you stop assuming things 

that you know nothing about.

 

 

 

 

                  image.gif.b05fef28d3e6760b4f9376c41adcdba5.gif

 

************************************************************************************

 

 

 

 

 

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As I mentioned above, instead of getting hung up on the percentage or number of people living below the poverty line, we should be able to agree that it's way too many people and discuss ways to solve the problem. 

 

It's easy to sit on a stoop and say 27M  black folks are sleeping in cars or tent citiies or shacking up with folks they can't stand because they're poor. The questions remain how do we create a cozy condition cuz that's our mission...oops, my bad.  I had a Slick Rick moment. 😁😎

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5 minutes ago, ProfD said:

As I mentioned above, instead of getting hung up on the percentage or number of people living below the poverty line, we should be able to agree that it's way too many people and discuss ways to solve the problem. 

 

It's easy to sit on a stoop and say 27M  black folks are sleeping in cars or tent citiies or shacking up with folks they can't stand because they're poor. The questions remain how do we create a cozy condition cuz that's our mission...oops, my bad.  I had a Slick Rick moment. 😁😎

 

 

************************************************************************************

 

The way that we help is by helping. 

 

Find someone that you can help.

 

That's all you can do because you 

can't help everybody.

 

But you can help somebody.

 

It doesn't have to be a lot of help.

 

Sometimes a person just needs a 

little bit of help.

 

Do that, and it will help.

 

That's what I try to do and I would 

recommend this to others.

 

If you can help more people that is

great, but just start by helping

 

SOME ONE.

 

 

************************************************************************************

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Mzuri said:

The way that we help is by helping. 

 

Find someone that you can help.

 

That's all you can do because you 

can't help everybody.

 

If you can help more people that is

great, but just start by helping

 

SOME ONE.

Absolutely. 

 

With my time, knowledge and money, I've been helping our people all my life. 

 

Despite the fact that I've made it, because I'll never forget where I came from, I give back. 

 

That's also why I can pontificate and clown.  I see both sides of the issues. I know the struggle is real. 

 

I also know some n8gglets are too lazy to do right.  Gotta beat them over the head with inspiration and motivation. 😁😎

 

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