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Black People in the Bible


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Over the years, I've encountered many individuals who remain curious about who was Black in the Bible. A lot of them spout legends and myths are absolute falsehoods. Some even mention individuals who actually never appear in the Scriptures.

So I did research and here are my findings. When compiling this data, I incorporated the claims made on different Websites and by individuals.

 

I chose to stick with only what I found in the Bible. This way, I would not codify legends, myths and feel good tales. That's how we ended up with a White Jesus.

One of the things that stood out is that the Bible rarely mentions the skin color of individuals, despite widespread belief to the contrary.

1) Some believe the Queen of Sheba was named Makeda and that she was Black. But there is no mention of Makeda in the Bible.

 

The Queen of Sheba is indeed mentioned in the Bible throughout the 10th Chapter of 1st Kings. But she is neither identified, nor described. Nor is the location of her queendom's location given.

 

But the Scriptures do indicate the Queen of Sheba did bring immense treasures in gold, precious stones and spices to King Solomon after hearing how God blessed this ruler with incredible wisdom.


2) Zipporah was definitely Black and she was the Cushite wife of Moses. How do we know Cushites were Black? ( I got a lot of blowback about this from non-Blacks, which I ignored ). Let's deal with what The Bible says.

Well in the Bible Book of Numbers, the brother and sister of Moses took issue with Moses' choice of a wife. "And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had married: For he had married a Cushite woman." (Num. 12:1).


Some translations use Ethiopian instead of Cushite. I also believe this is the first Biblical reference to an interracial marriage.

At Jeremiah 13:23, it reads: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?" Judging from the color of a leopard's spots, it is easy to discern that the skin color Jeremiah is referring to is Black.

 

3) The claim that Pharaohs were Black cannot be proven. Because the Bible never identifies the skin color of Egyptians during the time of Exodus. If you run into anyone who claims the Bible does this, ask them to show you the scripture.
 

The oft-repeated claim that Egypt and Ethiopia are one is untrue. The Bible does indeed mention Africa, but it does so by specifically noting exact regions of the continent, such as Egypt or Cush. And remember, the Bible rarely identifies skin color.


Instead, the Bible usually denotes a geographic area, tribe or lineage.

Notable exceptions include the young man from the Song of Solomon who fell in love with a Black girl. The young man is identified as having a ruddy complexion. (Song of Solomon 5:10)

 

4) When it comes to Ham, take care to recall that the Bible rarely identifies skin color. And so it is with Ham, one of the three sons of Noah. Ham's complexion is never noted in the Bible. So, how could someone claim he was Black?
 

Now, Cush, a grandson of Noah, and a son of Ham, is thought by serious Bible scholars to be the Father of the Black race. I will also note that it was Caanan and not Cush, who was cursed by Noah for uncovering his grandfather's nakedness. (Gen. 9:24-26)
 

5) Nimrod was described in the Bible as "a mighty hunter in opposition to the Lord." He is a Son of Cush. (1st Chronicles 1:10) The rabbinical writings derived the name Nimrod from the Hebrew verb ma•radhʹ, meaning “rebel.” There is so much confusion among some Blacks over Nimrod. Some think of him as a hero.

 

But the Bible merely claims Nimrod was a rebel against God. Thus, the Babylonian Talmud (Erubin 53a) states: “Why, then, was he called Nimrod? Because he stirred up the whole world to rebel (himrid) against His [God’s] sovereignty.” — Encyclopedia of Biblical Interpretation, by Menahem M. Kasher, Vol. II, 1955, p. 79.
 

Now, I don't know about you. But I never want to be on the side of someone who is a rebel against The Almighty.
 

6) In the Bible, Hagar is described as Sarah’s Egyptian maidservant; and later, Abraham’s concubine and the mother of Ishmael. Again, some Black people are taking much liberal license by claiming everyone in Egypt was Black. Remember, the Bible identifies Egypt and Ethiopia separately.
 

Were there dark skinned Egyptians during the time of Abraham and Sarah? Probably, but no one can say for certain. But if you look at some dark skinned indigenous Egyptians alive today, there seems to be a great possibility.

But was Hagar's skin dark? The Bible does not say. So, one must not make assumptions that it was.

7) Asenath, is supposed to be the daughter of an Egyptian priest. Again, no description of this woman is given in the Bible. So, one cannot call her Black.

Tirhaka, also known as Taharga, was indeed Black and he did have an army of chariots who came to the aid of Israelite King Hezekiah.

The Israelite king had launched a revolt against Assyrian King Sennacherib. Tirhaka is also identified as Pharaoh Taharqa, so he was linked to Egypt. However, the dates generally assigned by modern historians to Tirhaka's rule do not match up with Biblical chronology.


By the way, the revolt failed. Sennacherib's forces kicked the living crap out of Hezekiah's and Tirhaka's armies, according to the Bible.

An Assyrian inscription, though not mentioning Tirhakah, indicates that Sennacherib defeated the forces that came from Egypt and captured “the charioteers of the king of Ethiopia.”

 

The next Assyrian king, Esar-haddon, boasted about his conquest of Egypt, saying: “Its king, Tirhakah, I wounded five times with arrow shots and ruled over his entire country.”

During the reign of Esar-haddon’s son and successor Ashurbanipal, Tirhakah revolted against submission to Assyria. But, according to Ashurbanipal, “the terror of the (sacred) weapon of Ashur, my lord, overcame Tirhakah where he had taken refuge and he was never heard of again.” — Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. Pritchard, 1974, pp. 287, 288, 290, 295.

 

9) Zerah, the Cushite. Zerah is described in the Bible to be an Ethiopian, or Cushite, who led a huge army of a million men and 300 chariots into Judah during Asa’s reign, in 967 B.C.E. However, Zerah was defeated, and his fleeing forces were pursued and slaughtered “as far as Gerar.” (2nd Chronicles 14:1, 9-15)
 

10) Eded-melech was an Ethiopian eunuch in the house of King Zedekiah. Though Ethiopian, Ebed-melech worshiped the God of the Israelites. When the princes of Judah falsely charged the Prophet Jeremiah with sedition, Zedekiah threw him into a cistern to die without food.
 

Ebed-melech appealed to Zedekiah to save Jeremiah and later with 30 men, he pulled God’s prophet from the cistern and saved his life. God told Ebed-melech he would not die in the coming siege of Jerusalem by Babylonian forces, but would escape.
 

11) ) Symeon is another Black man in the Bible. He was from Niger, in Africa. (Acts 13:1). Symeon was an early believer in Jesus, the Christ. There is no indication that Symeon carried the wood that Jesus was impaled upon.

Symeon is also one of the prophets and teachers of the congregation in Antioch, Syria, who laid their hands on Barnabas and Paul after the Holy Spirit had designated these two for missionary work. Symeon’s Latin surname was Niger.

If anyone has the name of another individual thought to be Black and in the Bible, let's check it out.

 

 

 

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The colorful art work depicted in tombs, on  pyramids and in hieroglyphics should be an accurate indicator of the color of the people who are the subject of such illustrations.  Are there any artifacts that actually show people with black skin?  All visual records seem to be of people with a neutral skin shade like King Tut's. (Oil paintings by latter day artists don't count.)

 

To me, the bible has always been a case of who is doing the interpretation of the lore and legend being hyped by priests or translated by drunk monks. And, apparently, even waaay back then the deepness of skin tone was associated with being cursed, so colorism has always been a factor that inspired prejudice.  

 

BTW, has any one ever determined what "god" looks like?  There's a rumor going around that she's black. 👩🏽  

 

I will stand corrected on any of the observations I expressed here because I'm definitely not a student of the bible. which I've never believed to be divine in origin; more like an ancient almanac. 😜             

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Let us not forget that in the Bible Solomon was described by one of his women/lovers as a White man.


In Songs of Solomon chapter 5: 10-11 we read:

Quote

 


My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.

His head is as the most fine gold, his locks are bushy, and black as a raven.

 

 

 

 

 


Stephan

 


At Jeremiah 13:23, it reads: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?" Judging from the color of a leopard's spots, it is easy to discern that the skin color Jeremiah is referring to is Black.

 

And then the question would have to be what skin color was JEREMIAH to make a statement like that?
He obviously didn't see HIMSELF or HIS PEOPLE as the same skin color as the Ethiopians or he would have simply used his own people as an example instead of the Ethiopian.

 

 

Also, when you talk about Noah and his sons....your dealing with an ALLEGORY.

Allegories are SYMBOLIC STORIES that are coded in a way that those in secret societies with the codes can understand the truth of them while they just look like simple stories to the untrained reader.

 

Noah and his sons didn't happen in history but they SYMBOLIZE the Caucasian/White race as they came down out of the mountains of the Caucasus (Ararat) and spread into the lands of the Middle East and parts of Africa.

So there was no actual Ham, Shem, or Japheth...
Just different brances of the Caucausian race as they spread out taking over lands.

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It would really be something if Trump, DeSantis and Abbott got to heaven to meet The Almighty and Gary Coleman is doing duty and shoos them away at the Pearly Gates because Peter is on break.

And The Almighty herself is a Black woman. 

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@Pioneer1

I am not dealing with any Allegory. You are. The theme of Song of Solomon is about Shulammite girl's undying love for a shepherd boy and Solomon's attempt to win her heart. Are you saying a leopard's spots are not Black?

I prefaced my post by intoning that I would use ONLY information from the Bible. So I pay no attention to outside sources. If you do not believe it, then don't. But it does not negate what I said about the Bible. The scriptures rarely mention skin color. 

And those Scriptures I cited can be looked up by anyone. 

What was Jeremiah's skin hue?  Do you think the people who lived in that region of Earth hundreds of years before the birth of Christ had lily White skin? Do you think their skin was Brown? I am simply answering myriads of folks online who had asked those questions over the years. I compiled my research into a post and simply shared it. 

In the Apocalypse, or Revelation, there is mention of a seven headed dragon with ten horns. And a great beast coming out of the sea with the number 666. I haven't seen one of those lately, have you? That does not bother me. This is simply an academic exercise. 

 

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Stefan

 

 

Quote


I am not dealing with any Allegory. You are.

 

If you're dealing with the Bible, you ARE dealing with a book FILLED with allegories.

Most biblical scholars KNOW that most of the Bible isn't historical fact, but multiple allegories tied together and presented as a solid book.

 

 


 

Quote

 

 The theme of Song of Solomon is about Shulammite girl's undying love for a shepherd boy and Solomon's attempt to win her heart. 

 


The girl's focus is on SOLOMON.
That's who the lyrics are being sung to.

 

Chapter 3 makes this abundantly clear:


"Behold his bed, which is Solomon's; threescore valiant men are about it, of the valiant of Israel.

They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night.

King Solomon made himself a chariot of the wood of Lebanon.

He made the pillars thereof of silver, the bottom thereof of gold, the covering of it of purple, the midst thereof being paved with love, for the daughters of Jerusalem.

Go forth, O ye daughters of Zion, and behold king Solomon with the crown wherewith his mother crowned him in the day of his espousals, and in the day of the gladness of his heart."

 

 

 

 

Quote

Are you saying a leopard's spots are not Black?

 

No, that's not what I'm saying.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

I prefaced my post by intoning that I would use ONLY information from the Bible. So I pay no attention to outside sources. If you do not believe it, then don't. But it does not negate what I said about the Bible. The scriptures rarely mention skin color. 

 

 

The Old Testament actually mentions skin color quite a bit when it speaks of what is translated as "Leprosy" in the Old Testmant.
A condition that turns the skin very white and in some cases scaley.
Many Caucasians (as they still do today) suffer from this disease.
 

 

 

Quote

 

What was Jeremiah's skin hue?  Do you think the people who lived in that region of Earth hundreds of years before the birth of Christ had lily White skin? Do you think their skin was Brown?

 

 

Most White people don't have "lily white" skin so that's not saying much.
Hell, there are plenty of White folks (Caucasian is a better term) whose skin has BROWNED for one reason or another.  Especially those who live in climates with a lot of sun like Florida or the Middle East.
All they have to do is raise their shirt up and you'll see a reddish white skin under there.


I didn't comment with the intent to offend you or insult your beliefs, but to offer information you probably weren't aware of in the hopes that it may change your mind ABOUT your beliefs.
Because that's what changed me....more information (facts especially) that made me question and eventually change how I viewed the Bible and religion in general.


 

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On 8/4/2022 at 5:48 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Let us not forget that in the Bible Solomon was described by one of his women/lovers as a White man.


In Songs of Solomon chapter 5: 10-11 we read:

Quote

 


My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.

His head is as the most fine gold, his locks are bushy, and black as a raven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Pioneer1 The word 'white' is italicized' in the KJV and defined in this scripture as meaning 'PURE'.

Furthermore, that actual scripture is not referring to Solomon.

it refers to THE GREATEST BELOVED, meaning the coming of Jesus.

 

On 8/4/2022 at 5:48 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Noah and his sons didn't happen in history but they SYMBOLIZE the Caucasian/White race as they came down out of the mountains of the Caucasus (Ararat) and spread into the lands of the Middle East and parts of Africa.

So there was no actual Ham, Shem, or Japheth...
Just different brances of the Caucausian race as they spread out taking over lands.

 

@Pioneer1 I know we've discussed this before and I hope to add more of my research, however, again,

 

the word 'CAUCASIAN' was used for a modern day construction of race and there is a lot of reference to this occurring around the A.D. 1500s, if I remember correctly.

The original Caucasians were actually 'Negroes'. 

The Bible gives exact dates of the birth's of Noah's sons. 

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@Pioneer1

There are many translations of the Old Testament, or Hebrew Scriptures. So, the rendering of the color White ( "laban" ) means something different to you than it does to millions of others. 

Now, peruse the different translations of the scripture.

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Song of Songs 5:10

You claim the Bible gives exact dates of the birth of Noah's sons? Completely untrue. I am sure non-Biblical sources claim this as well. 

But the Bible is actually silent on the exact birth dates of Noah's sons. The Bible simply notes how old Noah was. ( He was 500, according to Genesis 5:32 ). 
 

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On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:

Over the years, I've encountered many individuals who remain curious about who was Black in the Bible. A lot of them spout legends and myths are absolute falsehoods. Some even mention individuals who actually never appear in the Scriptures.

So I did research and here are my findings. When compiling this data, I incorporated the claims made on different Websites and by individuals.

 

I chose to stick with only what I found in the Bible. This way, I would not codify legends, myths and feel good tales. That's how we ended up with a White Jesus.

Is the description below of Jesus? 

Revelation 1:14-15.

His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 

Daniel 7:9

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

 

On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:



One of the things that stood out is that the Bible rarely mentions the skin color of individuals, despite widespread belief to the contrary.

1) Some believe the Queen of Sheba was named Makeda and that she was Black. But there is no mention of Makeda in the Bible.

 

The Queen of Sheba is indeed mentioned in the Bible throughout the 10th Chapter of 1st Kings. But she is neither identified, nor described. Nor is the location of her queendom's location given.

 

But the Scriptures do indicate the Queen of Sheba did bring immense treasures in gold, precious stones and spices to King Solomon after hearing how God blessed this ruler with incredible wisdom.

Why Not?

After all she was the Queen of Sheba a kingdom located in Southern Arabia and Eastern Ethiopia think modern day Yemen

Genesis 10:7

And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan

 

 

On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:


2) Zipporah was definitely Black and she was the Cushite wife of Moses. How do we know Cushites were Black? ( I got a lot of blowback about this from non-Blacks, which I ignored ). Let's deal with what The Bible says.

Well in the Bible Book of Numbers, the brother and sister of Moses took issue with Moses' choice of a wife. "And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had married: For he had married a Cushite woman." (Num. 12:1).


Some translations use Ethiopian instead of Cushite. I also believe this is the first Biblical reference to an interracial marriage.

At Jeremiah 13:23, it reads: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?" Judging from the color of a leopard's spots, it is easy to discern that the skin color Jeremiah is referring to is Black.

 

3) The claim that Pharaohs were Black cannot be proven. Because the Bible never identifies the skin color of Egyptians during the time of Exodus. If you run into anyone who claims the Bible does this, ask them to show you the scripture.

If we accept the prevailing  and accepted assumption that Ham is the Father of the Black  Africans then Egypt is one of his son...Mizraim is the Hebrew word for Egypt or Egypt is the Greek word for Mizraim

Genesis 10:6

The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.

 

 

On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:

The oft-repeated claim that Egypt and Ethiopia are one is untrue. The Bible does indeed mention Africa, but it does so by specifically noting exact regions of the continent, such as Egypt or Cush. And remember, the Bible rarely identifies skin color.

Not One but Ethnically the same

 

On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:


Instead, the Bible usually denotes a geographic area, tribe or lineage.

Notable exceptions include the young man from the Song of Solomon who fell in love with a Black girl. The young man is identified as having a ruddy complexion. (Song of Solomon 5:10)

 

4) When it comes to Ham, take care to recall that the Bible rarely identifies skin color. And so it is with Ham, one of the three sons of Noah. Ham's complexion is never noted in the Bible. So, how could someone claim he was Black?
 

Now, Cush, a grandson of Noah, and a son of Ham, is thought by serious Bible scholars to be the Father of the Black race. I will also note that it was Caanan and not Cush, who was cursed by Noah for uncovering his grandfather's nakedness. (Gen. 9:24-26)

 

Who are these serious bible scholars who think Ham is not the Father of the Black African Ethnic Peoples?

 

On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:

5) Nimrod was described in the Bible as "a mighty hunter in opposition to the Lord." He is a Son of Cush. (1st Chronicles 1:10) The rabbinical writings derived the name Nimrod from the Hebrew verb ma•radhʹ, meaning “rebel.” There is so much confusion among some Blacks over Nimrod. Some think of him as a hero.

 

But the Bible merely claims Nimrod was a rebel against God. Thus, the Babylonian Talmud (Erubin 53a) states: “Why, then, was he called Nimrod? Because he stirred up the whole world to rebel (himrid) against His [God’s] sovereignty.” — Encyclopedia of Biblical Interpretation, by Menahem M. Kasher, Vol. II, 1955, p. 79.
 

Now, I don't know about you. But I never want to be on the side of someone who is a rebel against The Almighty.

The Importance of Nimrod is that he was the ruler and founder of the first Known biblical civilisation Sumer/Babylon/Chaldea/ a state/country many thought was not Black African.

Genesis 10:8-12

Cush fathered Nimrod; he was the first on earth to be a mighty man.1 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. Therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The beginning of his kingdom was pBabel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in qthe land of Shinar. 11 From that land he went into Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, Calah, and 12 Resen between Nineveh and Calah; that is the great city.

 

 

On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:

6) In the Bible, Hagar is described as Sarah’s Egyptian maidservant; and later, Abraham’s concubine and the mother of Ishmael. Again, some Black people are taking much liberal license by claiming everyone in Egypt was Black. Remember, the Bible identifies Egypt and Ethiopia separately.
 

Were there dark skinned Egyptians during the time of Abraham and Sarah? Probably, but no one can say for certain. But if you look at some dark skinned indigenous Egyptians alive today, there seems to be a great possibility.


But was Hagar's skin dark? The Bible does not say. So, one must not make assumptions that it was.

 

Why Not? 

Egypt is in Africa

 

 

On 8/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Stefan said:



7) Asenath, is supposed to be the daughter of an Egyptian priest. Again, no description of this woman is given in the Bible. So, one cannot call her Black.

Tirhaka, also known as Taharga, was indeed Black and he did have an army of chariots who came to the aid of Israelite King Hezekiah.

The Israelite king had launched a revolt against Assyrian King Sennacherib. Tirhaka is also identified as Pharaoh Taharqa, so he was linked to Egypt. However, the dates generally assigned by modern historians to Tirhaka's rule do not match up with Biblical chronology.


By the way, the revolt failed. Sennacherib's forces kicked the living crap out of Hezekiah's and Tirhaka's armies, according to the Bible.

An Assyrian inscription, though not mentioning Tirhakah, indicates that Sennacherib defeated the forces that came from Egypt and captured “the charioteers of the king of Ethiopia.”

 

The next Assyrian king, Esar-haddon, boasted about his conquest of Egypt, saying: “Its king, Tirhakah, I wounded five times with arrow shots and ruled over his entire country.”

During the reign of Esar-haddon’s son and successor Ashurbanipal, Tirhakah revolted against submission to Assyria. But, according to Ashurbanipal, “the terror of the (sacred) weapon of Ashur, my lord, overcame Tirhakah where he had taken refuge and he was never heard of again.” — Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. Pritchard, 1974, pp. 287, 288, 290, 295.

 

9) Zerah, the Cushite. Zerah is described in the Bible to be an Ethiopian, or Cushite, who led a huge army of a million men and 300 chariots into Judah during Asa’s reign, in 967 B.C.E. However, Zerah was defeated, and his fleeing forces were pursued and slaughtered “as far as Gerar.” (2nd Chronicles 14:1, 9-15)
 

10) Eded-melech was an Ethiopian eunuch in the house of King Zedekiah. Though Ethiopian, Ebed-melech worshiped the God of the Israelites. When the princes of Judah falsely charged the Prophet Jeremiah with sedition, Zedekiah threw him into a cistern to die without food.
 

Ebed-melech appealed to Zedekiah to save Jeremiah and later with 30 men, he pulled God’s prophet from the cistern and saved his life. God told Ebed-melech he would not die in the coming siege of Jerusalem by Babylonian forces, but would escape.
 

11) ) Symeon is another Black man in the Bible. He was from Niger, in Africa. (Acts 13:1). Symeon was an early believer in Jesus, the Christ. There is no indication that Symeon carried the wood that Jesus was impaled upon.

Symeon is also one of the prophets and teachers of the congregation in Antioch, Syria, who laid their hands on Barnabas and Paul after the Holy Spirit had designated these two for missionary work. Symeon’s Latin surname was Niger.

If anyone has the name of another individual thought to be Black and in the Bible, let's check it out.

 

 

 

I have no argument with the above....peace and love.

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15 hours ago, Stefan said:

But the Bible is actually silent on the exact birth dates of Noah's sons. The Bible simply notes how old Noah was. ( He was 500, according to Genesis 5:32 ). 

 

not true, the exact timeline of Shem is given!

 

He was dated to be, I think 102 years old after the flood!

That in the Bible!

 

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[10] These are the generations of Shem:

Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

[11] And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years,

and begat sons and daughters. GENESIS 11:10-11.

 

 

So Shem birth date and death date was given in the Bible.

 

 *I had to go to an errend but wanted to come back and post the reference.

 

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@Chevdove

I am sorry, but I am afraid you missed the mark again. Telling someone you're this many years old is not giving an exact birth date.

The truth is that Moses never gave a prophecy about Slave Ships. Those two lines in the 28th Chapter of Deuteronomy are part a 64-verse long warning of what would happen if the Israelites disobeyed their God. It's the part of the Blessings and Maledictions.

Giving someone's age is not giving an exact birth date. 

I am not the one who claims the Bible cites the exact dates of birth of Noah's sons. Because I happen to know it does not.

Again, we have no idea what these long dead individuals looked like. No one has ever found the remnants of Noah's ark or the location of the Garden of Eden. Those who believe they existed simply trust their feelings. And when asked why, often cite this scripture as a response: "We walk by faith, not by sight." ( 2nd Cor. 5:7 ) 





 

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@frankster

The scriptures you cite from Revelation are part of several visions were that written down by the Apostle John. The guy was pretty old by then and imprisoned on the Greek island of Patmos.

This has little to do with John's writing since the visions were from God.

But the visions John saw are NOT reality.  John was describing the appearance of Jesus' hair in a vision. It is not literal. And the figure's eyes were like fiery flame. Don't know why everybody wants to forget about that part?

Did you know that Daniel experienced a similar vision of the "Ancient of Days?" The figure Daniel saw is described as having white hair like clean wool. 

Revelation also includes visions of a seven headed dragon with ten horns or diadems and a beast arising out of sea with the number "666" emblazoned on its body. Ever see one of those? They're not real. 

They're visions. 

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1 hour ago, Stefan said:

@frankster

The scriptures you cite from Revelation are part of several visions were that written down by the Apostle John. The guy was pretty old by then and imprisoned on the Greek island of Patmos.

According to the bible did John actually knew Jesus when he was alive?

 

 

1 hour ago, Stefan said:

This has little to do with John's writing since the visions were from God.

 

That only lends more credibility to the visions

 

1 hour ago, Stefan said:

But the visions John saw are NOT reality.  John was describing the appearance of Jesus' hair in a vision. It is not literal. And the figure's eyes were like fiery flame. Don't know why everybody wants to forget about that part?

Yes and He knew what Jesus hair looked Like in Life...

When My love one  is angry zealous fervent spirited or ardent I can see the fire in their eyes

 

1 hour ago, Stefan said:


Did you know that Daniel experienced a similar vision of the "Ancient of Days?" The figure Daniel saw is described as having white hair like clean wool. [

Yes I did quote that passage too.

 

1 hour ago, Stefan said:

Revelation also includes visions of a seven headed dragon with ten horns or diadems and a beast arising out of sea with the number "666" emblazoned on its body. Ever see one of those? They're not real. 

They're visions. 

Exactly they are Visions and you describe what you see..

A vision is akin to a waking dream...and when I see my brother riding a dragon in a dream/vision, I know its my brother because I knew him in life - I recognize his appearance by his looks. John Knew Jesus

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@frankster

People have visions if they bump their head really hard on shelves, car doors, slipping on icy sidewalks and of course partaking of certain substances, even cough medicine with codeine. 

Yeah, the Apostle John knew Jesus when he was on Earth. So did 11 of his Apostles. 

The Mary that was weeping as Jesus was dying at Golgatha was truly sad. She is Mary Magdalene, one of seven Mary's mentioned in the Bible who is connected with Jesus. She knew what he looked like.

However, after Jesus was impaled, he was interred in a hewn rock tomb provided by Joseph of Arimethea, a secret believerin Jesus. A heavy block of stone sealed the tomb. Mary Magdalene managed to procure some extra spices to perfume the body and in the morning she and a few others walked back to the tomb. 

She was amazed that the heavy stone had been moved away. Mary peered inside. The tomb was empty.

She saw a man sitting outside and thinking he was a gardener, Mary M. asked him "do know where they have taken my Lord?"

Because she had no idea who this man was. Only after he spoke to her, calling her by her name did she recognize the man was actually Jesus. The women rushed to tell the surviving disciples who as you might expect, thought them a bit daft. 

There are two more experiences like this in the Gospel accounts. One includes two disciples who were not part of the original 12, who were walking from Jerusalem to Emmaus. Jesus simply walked beside them and spoke about making James and John "fishers of men." The men had no idea who was talking to them. Only after a night had passed, did the men recognize who was actually talking to them.

Thomas, the Apostle who doubted Jesus had been resurrected and famously said "unless I see in his hands the prints of the nail and stick my finger in the print of the nails and his side," he would not believe. But after seeing Jesus as a resurrected man, he exclaimed "My Lord, My God." Don't know if Thomas did any sticking of his finger, but he was satisfied. Jesus told Thomas: "Happy are those who do not see me and believe."

Jesus appeared to many after he was resurrected. There is not much recorded about the reactions of those who saw him. So, I tend to dismiss claims of what he looked like. Mostly, because it does not matter to me. I'll let others come to blows over skin color of Bible characters.

So, knowing what Jesus looked like when he was alive does not necessarily mean that anyone would easily recognize him after he was resurrected. Mary Magdalene surely didn't. The account starts at John 18:1
 

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26 minutes ago, Stefan said:


@frankster

People have visions if they bump their head really hard on shelves, car doors, slipping on icy sidewalks and of course partaking of certain substances, even cough medicine with codeine. 

Yes...

If you see someone in a vision that you know then you will recognize that person  and will often point idiosyncrasies particular to that person.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Stefan said:

 



Yeah, the Apostle John knew Jesus when he was on Earth. So did 11 of his Apostles. 

 


The Mary that was weeping as Jesus was dying at Golgatha was truly sad. She is Mary Magdalene, one of seven Mary's mentioned in the Bible who is connected with Jesus. She knew what he looked like.

However, after Jesus was impaled, he was interred in a hewn rock tomb provided by Joseph of Arimethea, a secret believerin Jesus. A heavy block of stone sealed the tomb. Mary Magdalene managed to procure some extra spices to perfume the body and in the morning she and a few others walked back to the tomb. 

She was amazed that the heavy stone had been moved away. Mary peered inside. The tomb was empty.

She saw a man sitting outside and thinking he was a gardener, Mary M. asked him "do know where they have taken my Lord?"

Because she had no idea who this man was. Only after he spoke to her, calling her by her name did she recognize the man was actually Jesus. The women rushed to tell the surviving disciples who as you might expect, thought them a bit daft. 

There are two more experiences like this in the Gospel accounts. One includes two disciples who were not part of the original 12, who were walking from Jerusalem to Emmaus. Jesus simply walked beside them and spoke about making James and John "fishers of men." The men had no idea who was talking to them. Only after a night had passed, did the men recognize who was actually talking to them.

This is natural they all saw him die....no one would expect to see him alive ....

Again who knows what the experience of death and resurrection does to the body.

In the end they all realize who he was....because they knew him in life.

 

26 minutes ago, Stefan said:


Thomas, the Apostle who doubted Jesus had been resurrected and famously said "unless I see in his hands the prints of the nail and stick my finger in the print of the nails and his side," he would not believe. But after seeing Jesus as a resurrected man, he exclaimed "My Lord, My God." Don't know if Thomas did any sticking of his finger, but he was satisfied. Jesus told Thomas: "Happy are those who do not see me and believe."

Good for Thomas he now has the proof he required.

 

26 minutes ago, Stefan said:

 


Jesus appeared to many after he was resurrected. There is not much recorded about the reactions of those who saw him. So, I tend to dismiss claims of what he looked like. Mostly, because it does not matter to me. I'll let others come to blows over skin color of Bible characters.

Good for you...though i find that a little disingenuous due to the fact you did research for this thread you posted on this very topic 

It seems you went to some length to show where many of the people in the  bible cannot be proven to black African...that's either duplicity or altruism.

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Stefan said:


So, knowing what Jesus looked like when he was alive does not necessarily mean that anyone would easily recognize him after he was resurrected. Mary Magdalene surely didn't. The account starts at John 18:1
 

What is important is what he looked  like before his crucifixion....that's how his friends and the world at the time  knew Him - Jesus physical phenotype.

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17 hours ago, Stefan said:

Telling someone you're this many years old is not giving an exact birth date.

 

@Stefan lol. You gotta be kidding.

 

Again, the scriptures gives the exact date of Shem's birth and death and the exact date of Jesus' birth under the star. I posted the reference.

 

 

17 hours ago, Stefan said:

The truth is that Moses never gave a prophecy about Slave Ships.

 

So this is the real reason you started this thread about 'a little bit of Black people that you say are in the Bible.

LOL.

Maybe @Pioneer1believes you.

 

If Black men allow you to come in their community and tell them that God would condone slavery for life, then so be it.

LOL.

 

You are evil.

 

I do see though, that some of the brothers in this community see your deception.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ohhhhhkay. 

So, you believe all ancient Israelites were Black? Well, I don't. I never believed one race has a physical or mental advantage over another. It may seem that way in certain circumstances or because of historical events. But we all grow old, get weak, become ill and die. 

I am against any kind of forced servitude. And I am not the one who penned the verses of the Bible. Others did. 

A year or someone's age is not a birthdate. Any dictionary will offer a proper definition of what a birthdate actually is. 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/birth-date

 

@frankster

I did relate what the Bible stated.

That's all I can go by. You have every right to believe differently. Just as I do.

I don't want to give the impression that I am okay with these lily-White interpretations of what Jesus and the Apostles supposedly looked like. Because I think these depictions are ludicrous.

I've always said those images reflect White Supremacy and a need to claim dominion over everything. Which is why I wanted nothing to do with them.

Some folks demand that everyone accept what they say. After experiencing many years of B.S., hypocrisy and outright lies, I'd rather do my own thinking. I'm on the side of Equality and Life. Not centuries old dogma that dictates who's better than who.

And I stay away from those prone to rages, fits of anger and strife. And those who carry a grudge for months.

No one has all the answers. But some would rather scream, insult and hurl accusations - so I tend to downplay what they say.

Somebody who used to act like that online is the guy who tried to get into the FBI offices in Cincinnati. A die-hard Trump supporter who also stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6th. Police ending up shooting him dead. 

 

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2 hours ago, Stefan said:


I did relate what the Bible stated.

That's all I can go by. You have every right to believe differently. Just as I do.

Yes you did and so did I 

 

 

2 hours ago, Stefan said:


I don't want to give the impression that I am okay with these lily-White interpretations of what Jesus and the Apostles supposedly looked like. Because I think these depictions are ludicrous.

I've always said those images reflect White Supremacy and a need to claim dominion over everything. Which is why I wanted nothing to do with them.

Some folks demand that everyone accept what they say. After experiencing many years of B.S., hypocrisy and outright lies, I'd rather do my own thinking. I'm on the side of Equality and Life. Not centuries old dogma that dictates who's better than who.

I do not want you to accept anything I say or post all I want is for you to express your truths as we reason and learn from each other.

 

 

2 hours ago, Stefan said:


And I stay away from those prone to rages, fits of anger and strife. And those who carry a grudge for months.

No one has all the answers. But some would rather scream, insult and hurl accusations - so I tend to downplay what they say.

Somebody who used to act like that online is the guy who tried to get into the FBI offices in Cincinnati. A die-hard Trump supporter who also stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6th. Police ending up shooting him dead. 

 

I am here for fun and  to spend the time in fruitful communication.

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@frankster

Thank you. I accept your offer of fruitful and uplifting communication.

Of all the people I've talked with over the years, you are the only one who mentioned idiosyncracies during discussions on what Jesus might have looked like after his resurrection.

I don't know if Jesus had any. But at times according to John 2:13-35, Jesus did appear to get angry, turning over the tables of the money changers in the Temple at Jerusalem and driving some of them from the premises with whips he fashioned from ropes.

He also scolded his disciples one night for falling asleep when he asked them to stay awake ( Matthew 26:40 ) and keep on the watch. The scriptures also mentioned that Jesus wept, danced, was joyous at times but apparently quite serious when foretelling events.

But I don't know. I wasn't there. But I have been asked these questions many times. 

Dang, we need to stop this. People might come away with a horrid impression we are respecting one another. 

Can't do that on a news forum.

All verbiage must be bitter curses, salty fulmination and dripping with acid. ( Which must constitute a pretty crappy salad topping. ) It's the same in many forums, but on a couple, some folks really drop useful  information. 

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8 hours ago, Stefan said:

@frankster

Thank you. I accept your offer of fruitful and uplifting communication.

I find that fruitful and uplifting communication is Good and Rewarding

 

 

8 hours ago, Stefan said:

Of all the people I've talked with over the years, you are the only one who mentioned idiosyncracies during discussions on what Jesus might have looked like after his resurrection.

I don't know if Jesus had any. But at times according to John 2:13-35, Jesus did appear to get angry, turning over the tables of the money changers in the Temple at Jerusalem and driving some of them from the premises with whips he fashioned from ropes.

 

He also scolded his disciples one night for falling asleep when he asked them to stay awake ( Matthew 26:40 ) and keep on the watch. The scriptures also mentioned that Jesus wept, danced, was joyous at times but apparently quite serious when foretelling events

Yes Jesus had emotional outburst at times it  demonstrates his humanity....Hence the Heresy of Arianism making Jesus simply another "son of Man"  who has been Anointed the Messiah.

 

8 hours ago, Stefan said:

But I don't know. I wasn't there. But I have been asked these questions many times. 

Dang, we need to stop this. People might come away with a horrid impression we are respecting one another. 

Can't do that on a news forum.

All verbiage must be bitter curses, salty fulmination and dripping with acid. ( Which must constitute a pretty crappy salad topping. ) It's the same in many forums, but on a couple, some folks really drop useful  information. 

 

What's to be gained from  such language but acrimony and hurt feelings.

9 hours ago, Stefan said:

 

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@frankster

Some of the most misguided and vile folks whoever lived on this planet claimed to be serving God. Religious hatred has fueled more wars, revolutions and genocides than anything else in this world.

So, I avoid the name calling and write in clear and declarative sentences. Which apparently, ticks some off. Some have yet to learn that one cannot make something that's wrong be right by screaming. 

When you're a news editor, one simply cannot do that. You have to hold your temper when politely pushing back at foolishness, argumentative individuals and the headstrong who think they're the smartest folks in the world. They're all over the place. The viciousness in politics and lack of respect for others are emboldening them.

When some asked me how I managed to last so long in a profession in which so many Blacks get frustrated and quit, I explained that I've always had this annoying habit: I like to eat.

Plus, I had an adorable and inquisitive young son I took on a few business trips. It would have done neither of us any good to let him see me fly off the handle. So, I didn't.

And of course, there's the old adage: "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." 

And what I have found is that a few on news forums adopt a god-like personality and believe anyone who has a different viewpoint is a heretic. Any correction to a faulty historical premise is usually greeted with rage.

Trying to convince a group of Conservatives on a long defunct forum as to why an African American History Museum was needed while an invasion of Iraq was not was daunting. The curses, the threats, the wild accusations of me lying and making chit up were astounding. I refused to bend because I was right.

The upshot was a couple of folks on that forum began sending me private messages and admitted they had changed their mind because they found my reasonings sound. A few of us became friends. Not the meeting in a diner for lunch kind. But respectful of each other.

This forum is quite mild compared with some others.

As far as the overuse of "etc." : https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/66149/is-it-suitable-to-use-etc-in-an-academic-paper#66157
 

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36 minutes ago, Stefan said:

Some of the most misguided and vile folks whoever lived on this planet claimed to be serving God. Religious hatred has fueled more wars, revolutions and genocides than anything else in this world.

True....The Laws of Nature does not submit to our  suppositions of Right and Wrong or  Good and Bad

Who among us no the Mind or plans  Of God

The Old must die for the New To thrive

 

36 minutes ago, Stefan said:


So, I avoid the name calling and write in clear and declarative sentences. Which apparently, ticks some off. Some have yet to learn that one cannot make something that's wrong be right by screaming. 

When you're a news editor, one simply cannot do that. You have to hold your temper when politely pushing back at foolishness, argumentative individuals and the headstrong who think they're the smartest folks in the world. They're all over the place. The viciousness in politics and lack of respect for others are emboldening them.

When some asked me how I managed to last so long in a profession in which so many Blacks get frustrated and quit, I explained that I've always had this annoying habit: I like to eat.

Plus, I had an adorable and inquisitive young son I took on a few business trips. It would have done neither of us any good to let him see me fly off the handle. So, I didn't.

And of course, there's the old adage: "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." 

And what I have found is that a few on news forums adopt a god-like personality and believe anyone who has a different viewpoint is a heretic. Any correction to a faulty historical premise is usually greeted with rage.

Trying to convince a group of Conservatives on a long defunct forum as to why an African American History Museum was needed while an invasion of Iraq was not was daunting. The curses, the threats, the wild accusations of me lying and making chit up were astounding. I refused to bend because I was right.

The upshot was a couple of folks on that forum began sending me private messages and admitted they had changed their mind because they found my reasonings sound. A few of us became friends. Not the meeting in a diner for lunch kind. But respectful of each other.

This forum is quite mild compared with some others.

As far as the overuse of "etc." : https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/66149/is-it-suitable-to-use-etc-in-an-academic-paper#66157
 

Name calling and screaming are Words.....be careful they do not perturb you

Words are Powerful Tools....."the tongue is mightier than the sword" - To paraphrased.

 

 

Wow I would love to visit some of the more vile and argumentative filled forums....do you care to recommend the worst of the lot???

 

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If you're really looking for mayhem, you can choose any news forum one finds with a generic Google search.

I could care less about childish name callers. But I prefer avoiding such folks. They're a waste of time.


I am interested in the continued survival and success of Black people and anyone decent who agrees.

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On 8/11/2022 at 8:56 PM, Stefan said:

Ohhhhhkay. 

So, you believe all ancient Israelites were Black? Well, I don't.

 

LOL. @Stefan Why are you slandering me?

How can all ancient Israelites be Black when the Bible says they intermingled with many different kinds of people?

The Original 'ancient Israelites' were indeed 'black-African-typed', but even so, that does not mean they were mostly all 'dark skinned'. 

 

Color is secondary trait, however, you are so stressed about this topic that you are putting your stress on me and slandering me. 

 

The Bible says that they intermingled with many different kinds of people, some that they should have but some they should not have, but that in no way means that some of the negative people they mixed with were either Black or White? That is crazy. 

 

It would be truth that ALL ANCIENT and ORIGINAL ISRAELITES were AFRICAN-TYPED, after 400 years of developing their culture in Egypt. 

They definitely did NOT look like GENTILES, or ASSYRIANS. 

 

 

On 8/11/2022 at 8:56 PM, Stefan said:

I never believed one race has a physical or mental advantage over another.

 

Yes. That would be crazy.

 

 

On 8/11/2022 at 8:56 PM, Stefan said:


I am against any kind of forced servitude. And I am not the one who penned the verses of the Bible. Others did. 

 

Okay.

 

 

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On 8/11/2022 at 8:56 PM, Stefan said:

A year or someone's age is not a birthdate. Any dictionary will offer a proper definition of what a birthdate actually is. 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/birth-date

 

 

This is the definition of the reference that you posted:

 

 

 

the date of a person’s birth,

usually expressed as a specific day, month, and year.

 

Stefan, I posted the reference showing that the actual year that Shem was born. So no, the actual birth date, in terms of day and month is not given in the Bible, however I addressed @Pioneer1 comment:

 

"...So there was no actual Ham, Shem, or Japheth..."

 

He believes that the three sons of Noah does not exist.

 

I gave a Biblical reference that shows that Shem was born. So, you are showing SEMANTICS in terms of my reference. The concept is addressing the very issue. The refeence that I am citing for the definition of semantics is this;

 

What is semantics and examples?

Semantics is the study of meaning in language. It can be applied to entire texts or to single words. For example, "destination" and "last stop" technically mean the same thing, but students of semantics analyze their subtle shades of meaning.

Semantics - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms | Vocabulary.com

 

What are the two types of semantics?

Semantics is the study of meaning. There are two types of meaning: conceptual meaning and associative meaning.

 Linguistics/Semantics - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

 

So, are you saying that I am wrong, in posting the reference of Shem's birth year and his death year to prove that, based on the Bible, Shem was a man that was born on this earth?

 

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On 8/4/2022 at 8:22 PM, Stefan said:

It would really be something if Trump, DeSantis and Abbott got to heaven to meet The Almighty and Gary Coleman is doing duty and shoos them away at the Pearly Gates because Peter is on break.

And The Almighty herself is a Black woman. 

Wait just a minute... Trump, DeSantis and Abbott got to WHERE? I don't believe in this heaven-hell Zoroastrianist-Judaean-Christian dichotomy, but to use that imagery, those 3 are headed for hell. We who believe in reincarnation expect that they are facing many lifetimes as sewer rats.

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This issue of who was "black" in ancient times can be very contentious, a reflection of the racism in our society which often affects peoples' interpretations of history.

 

"Oh, they HAD to be black," or "Oh, they HAD to be white,"... and why? Because we want them to be one or the other.

 

We have to define the terms if we pursue this. What does "black" mean? Here in the USA we labor under a one-drop notion that any discernible "blackness", evidence of African ancestry, makes one "black". So, if we saw an Egyptian from 3000 years ago who was actually 1/4 African, we'd call the person "black".

 

Well, I had a friend who was caramel-colored, she went to Africa to visit, expected people to welcome her back home, and instead in Nigeria people laughed at her and called her "chicken flesh". To them she was essentially "white". Hmmm. so what does "black" mean?

 

The Bible doesn't often mention skin color because it was not an issue then. They were not in the USA raised in this color-obsessed culture. What we know about Egypt, looking here at scientific data rather than the Bible, is that the civilization began in Upper Egypt among a mixture of Nile Valley Neolithics and Saharans. Both groups were African, which is to say, "black". Very quickly Egypt became rich and powerful and attracted many migrants. and so by the Middle Kingdom, Egypt was quite mixed. Many people there in fact therefore looked a lot like many African-Americans. Many like to look at Eurasian DNA found in Egyptian mummies from the Middle or New Kingdom and then proclaim that, "See, Egyptians were just like today's Arabs or Berbers." But of course they're ignoring Egypt's origins and the changes which were always occurring as more people came into Egypt both from Eurasia and from the South (Africa).

 

As for Israelites, the same dynamic applies. They enter history already mixed, like many of the Semites of the Levant and Mesopotamia. Some of their ancestry did come in from the north. The peoples in the various hills and mountains of the "Fertile Crescent" were quite diverse, from the Zagros Mts. to Anatolia and the northern Levant, but all of Eurasian types. Likewise, there was migration out of Africa, especially through Yemen, of "black" people. so that today in southern Arabia genetic studies show the population to be of 22% African descent. The Israelites, as well as the other Semites, therefore had African admixture in their population.

 

So... who was "black"? If we went back to the time of the Kingdom of Israel, we'd see many Israelites whom in the USA we'd call "black". Most would have looked like what we loosely term "Mediterranean" today... like Greeks, Moroccans, Lebanese, etc.

 

To anthropologists "race" is interesting only as it indicates migrational history and mixing of various groups. What really identifies people is their culture. Again, in the USA we've a confused view of this, since 2 of our ethnic groups are named after colors (black anad white)! And so, in the USA we are often confused about all of this, not understanding that ethnicity has nothing to do with race, really. But for both of these 2 groups, ethnic ancestry is very mixed. Whites are Scottish, English, German, Irish, Italian, Dutch, etc. Blacks are Yoruba, Bambara, Mandinke, etc. Then in Virginia in the 17th century the categories "black" and "white" were codified, creating an oppressive social division (which worked against working class whites as well as blacks) and engendering an obsession with color which is still with us, as evidenced by the intense arguments over whether Egyptians or Israelites were "black" or "white".

 

The joke's on us, since most Israelites in ancient times likely wouldn't quality as "white" even if they weren't "black". So... what was Jesus? Answer: He was a Jew.

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