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Then list at least one that is not man made or natural? They as a whole person can no longer hear.... They no longer have biological legs....as a whole person You know and recognize that you have contradicted yourself and straddle both sides of argument..... Yet you pretend as if you haven't .....that is dishonest Which part is unrestricted? To my understanding Liberty is Socio-political freedoms with the confines of a society And like Freedoms they are degrees to Liberty They are both Constraints They limitations and restrictions are many .....available does not mean accessible.. Can they drive....are they healthy enough to taste the flavor.... Does the car work or have gasoline in it In some societies at certain times some flavors were restricted etc Most people are not healthy.... here are a list of restriction many have to vary degrees Breathing ....asthma or covid - some of us can't breathe water while others can't breathe air Thinking....possession by hypnosis parasites or spirits or if you not aware of something you can't think about while others cannot control their thinking. Moving...Range of motion Libery is Socio-political. We already agree that they are Natural Physical Restrictions and Man/Beast restrictions..... Who or what else is imposing restrictions on our freedoms? Then will all restricted to varying degrees of freedom. And I show where they failed your zero-sum definition Closer... Divine forces are Natural....we have already agreed that that Nature is a natural limiting factors. Can you have an OBE at will and remember the details.....or have volitional control - these freedoms are also in degrees. So we agree on the above.... What is there that limits our freedom if not man beast or nature? That you for making my point yet again.....your birds have degrees of freedom Doesn't fit your quote below:- "Freedom is simply the state of being free. It's not a measurement or level of HOW free somebody is. Again, there are no limitations to actual freedom." Does not comport with your earlier assertions;- "That's because it's a zero sum status. Either you're free or you're not. There is no "degree" or "amount" of freedom that can be negotiated or restricted." Exactly what I have said from the very beginning of this line of reasoning.....we all have degrees of freedom. One could chain their wings down stop wire their beaks shut and restrict their breathing with bronchial infections. in your definition it is a all or nothing zero sum game: There is no such thing as "limited freedom". That's an oxymoron. If it's limited, it's not free. You have already ceded that man beast and nature can and do restrict your wild birds.... What frees them from these restrictions? Why not they are restriction and limitations? Are you saying they are not restrictions? Machines are man made.... So who or what is imposing if not Man Nature or Beast? Boundaries are Limitations..... Where are the Boundaries of Nature? ?You mean Those that are Limited.....within the boundaries of NATURE. To continue on this line of reasoning.....then it is best you start a new thread.

frankster Interesting definition. My definition of Liberty is the state of having few restrictions. The fewer the restrictions....the more the Liberty. So while I don't believe in "degrees of freedom", by that definition there can indeed be DEGREES OF LIBERTY. Perhaps it is the detailed expression of ideas and their proper articulation rather than making broad sweeping generalizations and holding extreme beliefs.....that you are CONFUSING with "ambiguity" "switching up" and "dishonesty". A fool will look at a Mayor, a Governor, and a President each occupying positions in Executive Office, and say: "Ok, so which one is in charge? I thought the President held the executive office, but now they're saying the Mayor holds the executive office. And the other day on television somebody said they were running for the executive office of Governor! Somebody is lying to us. Somebody is being dishonest. They are trying to switch it up and confuse us. Everybody can't hold the same office!" It's not that people are lying or being dishonest; it's that he doesn't have the intellect to understand the complexities of the U.S. political system....lol. Instead of trying to engage in intelligent discussions above his grade, his ass needs to be slinging a rag at a carwash somewhere....lol. My point? The confusion that one may call "dishonesty" or "switching up" only ends when you are intelligent and analytical enough in thought to understand the ideas being presented to you. At that point...it no longer confuses you or seems like deception and dishonesty because it makes sense to you now. 🌤️ ......if you ever reach that point, lol.

frankster Which Restriction are not an imposition? There may be many but for the sake of this discussion to lessen the confusion, as I stated previously the ONLY time I will use the word "restriction" is in accordance with a limit that has been imposed by man, machine, or beast. Yes it's happening to you the whole person.....you cannot separate your Aspects from yourself - you and your Aspects are One. Not necessarily. Some people lose their hearing...an aspect of themselves...but THEY are still here. Some people lose a leg or both legs...aspects of themselves...but THEY are still here. Likewise, their legs or hearing can be restricted while the rest of their body is "free" to move about. No not a crime....just intellectually dishonest How so? You consider a person who is not given over to EXTREMES in thought or philosophy, "intellectually dishonest"??? You cannot be generally not free and be unrestrictedly free individually. You can if that which is unrestricted are individual PARTS of you. The individual is confined in the generality....they are free within their limitations - degrees of freedom No "degrees" of freedom. Either it's free or it's not. Perhaps you're speaking of liberty. Physical/bodily aspects are restricted by....Ability Range of Motion Flexibility Mobility Endurance and Sickness I'd rather use the term "limited" rather than restricted. Restricted implies that those limitations were imposed upon them...which is often not the case. If some aspects are free....that is a degree of freedom Only if they have a car and is capable of driving.... Only if that flavor is available..... Those are limitations....not imposed restrictions. Once they have a car...they can drive. Once those flavors are available...they can taste them. Nobody is holding them from it or telling them they can't. Which aspect of their lives has unrestricted freedom?.... In most healthy people: Breathing. Thinking. Moving their limbs. Otherwise it is all degrees of freedom.... Perhaps what you're calling "degrees of freedom" are actually degrees of LIBERTY. Most Freedoms have Limitations....Name the freedom that has no restriction? If it's free...no restrictions are imposed. Imposed by what or whom? Man, machine, or beast Name the Unrestricted Aspects? I just did. See the above. Then name the limit that is neither Natural or Man made? Those set by Divine Forces, such as Out of Body Experiences So now you accept limitations as a part of freedom....That is what is meant by degrees of freedom.. There has always been limitations in freedom. But they aren't imposed by man, machine, or beast...they are natural. You just admitted that your free birds have Limitations Correct. They are limited to this atmosphere. They can't fly to the moon....lol. How then are they free....by your definition? Because for the most part, their limits are NATURAL...and not man, machine, or beast made restrictions. Can they still move eat breathe and flap their wings.....then they are free to those degrees. Now you're qualifying...CERTAIN ASPECTS of their lives are free while THEY are not. What or which birds exist that have no restriction? Again, using "restriction" in the context of THIS discussion....most wild birds. Since we have already that physics/nature imposes restrictions Those so-called "restrictions" are natural limitations and as I've said over and over again, they have been excluded. We don't count those. The only other impositions is Man or Beast Or machine. Which is arguably "man" as well. Where or what are the Freedoms that birds possess that are exclusive of Man Beast and Nature Restrictions? If they are wild, the freedom to fly and to fly where they desire within the boundaries of NATURE. Tell me about the free birds and their freedoms? I just did. *Another interesting thing about freedom is that it works just as well in the negative as it does in the postive. Something can be FREE OF just like can be FREE TO. Free of sugar Free of additives Free of lies Free of corruption When something is FREE OF sugar.....there is NO DEGREE of sugar it contains. If it contains ANY sugar....it's no longer "free of" sugar.

True.... The following is my definition of them.... Freedom is a Natural Inheritance or State... Liberty is a form of Political Freedom granted by Societies to its members.... cool You mean someone being intellectually dishonest....by being ambiguous and switching up - that is not going to end true

cool Which Restriction are not an imposition? Yes it's happening to you the whole person.....you cannot separate your Aspects from yourself - you and your Aspects are One. They still retain some degree of freedom....Dexterity or ability to perform.. No not a crime....just intellectually dishonest cool Fine by me You cannot be generally not free and be unrestrictedly free individually. The individual is confined in the generality....they are free within their limitations - degrees of freedom Yes Physical/bodily aspects are restricted by....Ability Range of Motion Flexibility Mobility Endurance and Sickness If some aspects are free....that is a degree of freedom Only if they have a car and is capable of driving.... Only if that flavor is available..... Which aspect of their lives has unrestricted freedom?.... I know of only possible one that comes close .....but you must name it Otherwise it is all degrees of freedom.... Most Freedoms have Limitations....Name the freedom that has no restriction? Imposed by what or whom? If restrictions exist on some aspects of their life....then their life is restricted - All aspects belong to the same individual life... Name the Unrestricted Aspects? cool Then name the limit that is neither Natural or Man made? So now you accept limitations as a part of freedom....That is what is meant by degrees of freedom.. You just admitted that your free birds have Limitations.. How then are they free....by your definition? So where is their zero sum freedoms without restrictions or limitations? Can they still move eat breathe and flap their wings.....then they are free to those degrees. True What or which birds exist that have no restriction? Since we have already that physics/nature imposes restrictions The only other impositions is Man or Beast....you have now also included them as possible restrictive elements Where or what are the Freedoms that birds possess that are exclusive of Man Beast and Nature Restrictions? Thank you Now explain the freedom you said they have? Tell me about the free birds and their freedoms?

Or opens up a new theater.....lol.

Brotha @Pioneer1 beat me to the punch in starting a separate thread about freedom. Adding liberty to the mix ends the circular nature of the discussion in the Captain Traore thread.😁 Liberty is the freedom people have in civilized societies.😎

That's something I have found out recently.

@frankster With all of our discussion about Freedom and Restrictions.....let us not confuse Freedom with Liberty. Although they're closely related, they are actually two separate concepts....lol

frankster Ok..... This misunderstanding occurred because of your "zero sum" statements. Thank you for the Re-Direction.. No problem So there is "IMPOSED" restrictions on your freedom If restrictions are imposed on it, it's no longer freedom. And Natural Limits and Boundaries on your freedom....Natural Restrictions Correct We are all experiencing varying degrees of freedom If you want to call the freedom we have in different aspects of our lives "varying degrees of OUR freedom" you can do so. I don't agree with it because I think it's not specific enough and misleading, but I won't stop you...lol. Most of freedom is in three parts... Knowing(Wisdom)that you are free.. Willingness(Courage) to exercise that freedom. Ability(Diligence/Dexterity) to exercise that freedom If Any of the above is missing....Then that degree of freedom is severely compromised Hmmm..... Interesting take on the components of freedom. So according to YOUR understanding of freedom...which incorporates willingness....if a person doesn't WANT and is UNWILLING to work for a living....they don't have the freedom to work? If you cannot see or admit to where you committed a "STRADDLE" while trying to "HEDGE" your arguments.... No. Although I didn't know straddling was a crime or violation of ethics to be "committed"...lol. Then I see no reason to show you your logical flaws in the future.... Especially when you...based on the reasoning you've displayed in our exchanges...aren't qualified to do so anyway, lol. By Modifying and Qualifying with the Word "IMPOSED" Yes. I figured that would make things a little bit more clear. I should also...instead of using them together...separate the terms LIMIT from RESTRICTION because using those two words together so much seems to also cause a little confusion. From hence forth, when I say "restriction" I mean IMPOSED LIMITATIONS. Exactly... But by your own definition....we should not be free at all in any way Again, it goes back to "generally speaking". If you're talking about the whole person and how they relate to the society they're in -NO, they aren't free. THEY are restricted by rules and regulation in society. If you're talking about individual aspects of their bodies and lives -YES, some aspect of their lives are free. THEY are free to drive to the store THEY are free to choose the flavor of ice cream they want to eat Having some Individual freedom and not being generally free is a contradiction of your definition of freedom It doesn't contradict my definition of freedom. Again, it depends whether we're talking about the whole person and how they relate to society OR individual aspect of a person and their lives? Then you are now saying they are degrees and levels to freedom....but only unwilling to admit it No. Freedom means unrestricted....no imposed limits. But CERTAIN ASPECTS of a person's life may be unrestricted while OTHER ASPECTS of their life is. You're confusing this with "degree" of overall freedom. Here is a confusing statement of yours.... Well I'll see if I can clarify, lol. You are confessing that they do have limits....on that we now agree It's not a confession....because I've never hid or denied it, lol. but Are you saying that birds limitation aren't man made or that they are made by nature? For most wild birds, their only limitations are those by nature. Which is why I consider them free. Now sometimes a human can put devices on wild birds to limit their abilities OR can put obstacles out in the wild to limit their access to certain areas....and at that point they are no longer free. Isn't that a real current and present possible for birds....Capture or and Predation by other animals and birds. Yes. And if they are captured, they are no longer free. Then yes they are restricted....They live in degrees or levels of freedom No, they aren't living in ANY degree of freedom....they are held captive. Is Your basic premise then is that Man is not part of Nature? My premise with the wild birds example is that ANY BEING...man or beast...who IMPOSES LIMITATIONS/RESTRICTIONS on birds, has taken away their freedom. If not imposed by Nature.....then Imposed by Whom or What? If it's IMPOSED....then it would have to be by man or beast. Both Man and other creatures({other}birds included) Impose on birds.... Correct Then they are no longer free at that point. Some wild birds....I'm guessing most...ARE free. But some are not.

🤣 Careful not to smoke TOO much herb while watching a video about Zombies. ....lest you turn from a spectator to a PARTICIPANT, lol.

As long as hunans are involved with AI on any level & they have agendas, there's room for negative results, greed & corruption etc..😎

@Delano I was actually talking about the language you created, when I said it was just a "toy" for you to play with. Your "moments in time" theories do seem to support the idea about there being no such thing as "coincidence". They also support the old adage about being at the right place at the right time, or the wrong place at the wrong time. You are a receptacle for the "old wisdom".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur7GYOHrW6g Zombies Are Real 2015

Great Video.....Very True and Very Informative - loved it >>>Good find @Pioneer1 needs some good greenery to watch that again... Please bring that video to the Attention of @admin and/or @Troy

Ok..... This misunderstanding occurred because of your "zero sum" statements. Thank you for the Re-Direction.. Cool... So there is "IMPOSED" restrictions on your freedom And Natural Limits and Boundaries on your freedom....Natural Restrictions Hence the Reason I used the term "Degrees" or "Levels" of or to Freedom I now understand that is what you meant True But Realized that natural limits can be overcome.....by Tech When I use the "Tech"....I am referring to Technology and especially Technique - Use of Knowledge We are all experiencing varying degrees of freedom Most of freedom is in three parts... Knowing(Wisdom)that you are free.. Willingness(Courage) to exercise that freedom. Ability(Diligence/Dexterity) to exercise that freedom If Any of the above is missing....Then that degree of freedom is severely compromised correct correct True No I did not.... You explained yourself correctly.. If you think so....fine by me Start a thread....and let's learned together. So do I If you cannot see or admit to where you committed a "STRADDLE" while trying to "HEDGE" your arguments.... Then I see no reason to show you your logical flaws in the future.... Yes you did and you also explained....the root of the misunderstanding and redirected your arguments. By Modifying and Qualifying with the Word "IMPOSED" Exactly... But by your own definition....we should not be free at all in any way Your own quote leaves no speculation as to the fact that any limitation on freedom ....is not freedom Having some Individual freedom and not being generally free is a contradiction of your definition of freedom "There is no "degree" or "amount" of freedom that can be negotiated or restricted." Then you are now saying they are degrees and levels to freedom....but only unwilling to admit it You have cross over (double turn) and is now support my arguments with different words. All you stated above are but levels and degrees of freedoms Here is a confusing statement of yours.... You are confessing that they do have limits....on that we now agree but Are you saying that birds limitation aren't man made or that they are made by nature? cause if they are either...then they only free in degrees Isn't that a real current and present possible for birds....Capture or and Predation by other animals and birds. Then yes they are restricted....They live in degrees or levels of freedom Really square that with both of your confusing statement above in blue.... Let me respond any way..... They have both forms of limitations to varying degrees.....Hence their freedom is in degrees and levels. True.... Is Your basic premise then is that Man is not part of Nature? If not imposed by Nature.....then Imposed by Whom or What? Both Man and other creatures({other}birds included) Impose on birds....

I believe I know what you meant. Looking over history, one of the greatest technologies was the printing press. Sure, printed material has been used to spread propaganda and lies, but it also made literacy virtually universal and I'd argue has been a net positive for society. I don't AI being a net positive for humanity is off the table. Sure, like atom bombs, AI is poses a potential existential threat. Perhaps I have more faith in AI than I do humanity 🙂

ProfD I just don't see the point in dropping bombs on schools & other places just because a country isn't friendly &/or they are building nuclear weapons. I don't agree with it, but it's to inspire fear and pain. When you're dealing with people who are so brave that they don't care whether THEY live or die in the fight, then you go after their loved ones like women and children who are innocent and THAT will hurt you more than your own death. Again, I don't agree with it...but that's the logic behind it. Seeing your family killed in front of you is worse than death. Much more powerful countries have nukes. The USA isn't bombing Russia. They are supposed to be the biggest threat. We already know it's BS used to justify military spending Russia and the United States are the two nation with the most White people of any other nation on the planet. Why would they actually be enemies? If anything, they'd be sticking together to keep the other nations of color in check...lol.

Not exactly I use in readings and knowing the quality of time is useful. I first tried it out in 2014. I had to go to the unemployment office. I found the best time down to the second. I was in and out in 10 minutes. So it is very useful when I have to do something. Once I wanted to have a day where I met a lot of people. I thought about someone and saw him literally a few minutes after wards. Ran into another person and he asked if I had seen my recent ex wife. I said they are just walking to the station know. While we where on the train someone from work got on our car, I have also used it to travel and it made a noticeable difference. Plus I like knowing things and Time is abundantly full of information. As much as I don't like AI it has been useful in helping me think about the implications of the system.

Of course, I believe if an enemy attacks they have to be dealt with accordingly. I just don't see the point in dropping bombs on schools & other places just because a country isn't friendly &/or they are building nuclear weapons. Much more powerful countries have nukes. The USA isn't bombing Russia. They are supposed to be the biggest threat. We already know it's BS used to justify military spending.😎

ProfD I.still don't see how these zombies are productive & constructive in solving problems or liberating their countries from oppressors. Some claim that the practice of zombification is productive in providing a manual labor force; however I think it's DESTRUCTIVE when it comes to the moral and ethical fabric of society. The negatives seem to outweigh the positives. I don't believe a bunch of innocent people should be killed in that regard. Me neither. However if your enemy kills millions of YOUR innocent civilians, how else would you get "even" with them or retaliate?