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@Pioneer1, probably because the person you're interviewing for your dissertation is the one who experienced the account firsthand. Once you're awarded your phd and publish it then it becomes a secondary source for those who read it. @Troy legally speaking what you're referring to is hearsay. Or secondary. It was told to Zora. It's a primary source for her and if she had to defend it she could. None of us who are reading the book, can source everything told in the book so it's secondary for us. Now if you go and find the brother and interview him about what he said in the book then you return to primary source. I read a lot of things about Issa Rae from articles that were already published - so if I wanted to use it in my article - I asked her directly and I taped our interview. I use mostly primary sourced information but there are parts of the article that I use secondary sources - such as videos that she's appeared in. Eyewitnesses accounts are upheld in a court of law. We can only rely on their testimony to be true because we didn't witness the act. That is unless that someone is lying -if they are found out they are charged with perjury. If a person can't defend their dissertation with source documents then they won't get their doctorate.

"What black folks need to do" is a mantra that has been chanted so long and so often, that you'd think by now the definitive solution would've transcended the droning and come into fruition. Doing what other ethnicities are doing is one thing some blacks think will be a magical solution. Let them tell it, Whites and Asians and Hispanics all do the right things. And they are rewarded for this by being above blacks on society's totem pole. Really? To me, the obvious answer to what black folks need to do, is overshadowed by a fixation on time-worn ideas which encompass the same ol imperatives. Black folks need to unite and be of one mind, they should diligently utilize their consumer power to boycott corporate America, start their own businesses and get a good education, at the same time honor those who fought so hard to win the vote, by making their demands heard through the ballot box. For some mysterious reason, doing what different voices suggest is in their best interest has never produced full scale equality for blacks and it is time to put a Plan B in place. What blacks really need to do is right before our eyes: Tell us, O Great Guru! What is the answer? It is simple, My Children. Find a way to change the color of their skin. Because it is what attracts trouble. The battle for freedom and justice is half-way lost as soon as white eyes view skin that is a different color from theirs; it's a reflex. Well-meaning whites can pretend skin color doesn't matter, but when it comes right down an "us" against "them" equation, they instinctively and probably subconsciously embrace the expedience of being among the "entitled" us while going through the motions of providing the disadvantaged "them" with token support. Unfortunately, white supremacy is holding fast, so if a way was found to prevent whites from relying on a person's complexion to aid and abet their bias, then it would boil down to people being judged by the content of their character. With all due respect to MLK, this is admittedly a double edged sword. But Life isn't fair and changing their color would eliminate the handicap of skin shade for blacks. Yes, shrewd ruthless people will continue to dominate vulnerable incapable ones, but at least it wouldn't be about melanin. It would simply be a testament to the age old truism about the survival of the fittest. 🙄 😉

Well, what i'm basically saying, is: "so what if European standards do influence black women?" Self-esteem is the real issue. You say that black women who emulate Europeans standards have low self-esteem. i say that self-esteem is in the eye of the beholder and women themselves are who determine what self esteem represents to them. Not men who want to impose their definitions on us. And i disagree that my metaphor is reaching. All "beauty" has it's origin in nature, and enhancement is a factor in highlighting beauty. European standards of beauty talk about rose bud lips, and sky blue eyes and lily white skin and flaxen hair. Other ethnics can and do find examples in nature to compare themselves to. When they attempt to adopt western standards of beauty they simply work with what they have.

@Troy who is four-eyed gangsta? @Cyniquemakes a good point. Because our skin color is an easy target -it weakens those in power. They can exploit us by our skin color so it removes their ability to come up with other methods of subjugation. For example, look at the ruling class in China - because everyone shares a similar phenotype; they had to come up with a grading system to create an underclass to make money off of -- it's ingenious. This is why the Chinese will always be the OGs of the world. Here, though, once we accept that our complexion hinders us - we can do like Whoopie in The Associate and work as our own secretary and send a white man in to handle our business.

@Troy are you in the habit of lumping everyone together based on your experience with a small group? 😲 I have a high arch and high instep so I don't have a problem wearing high heels - yes even at our age. Now I never wore 5 inches but I can dance all night and have in 4 inches... I do have an hard time wearing flats for a long time - and if I have to, I rather walk barefoot. I did find one pair of flats that I could walk in and I bought them for inflight wear. They are Softwalk - cost $100 a pair and worth every penny. The insole is built up so it fits the natural curve of your foot (if you have one) especially if you have high arch. I wear Asics sneakers for that reason too. I had a boyfriend who used to tease me - and say all I needed to do was paint my foot black and no one would never know I wasn't wearing heels. Anyway, I offer all of this because I've noticed that you seem to believe (at least based on what you write in this forum) that women lack agency and are easily influenced by everything that is put in front of us. Based on my experience, I can assure you, women are more influenced by their community of other women -than any marketing ploy. It's the same for the men who are interested in us. If they want to be with us - we influence how they look and behave. It's really all tribal... no invisible hand guiding women to do anything. By the way, reports indicate it was men who wore high heels first..😅

@Cynique that is a good point. You'll noticed one of the kids "aced" the test by saying they were all equally smart. However, I'm sure the people who administered the test took these things into account and we only saw a small sample of the students who were questioned. We just don't have enough information to judge the validity of the study -- at least not without examining all of the data and having the skill set to assess it. I guess the fundamental question here is whether, or not, you believe that Eurocentric standards of beauty influence Black women. Seemingly all the studies and evidence in the world won't change you mind if you do not believe that it does. The notion that Nigerian's use of skim bleaching is merely a desire to achieve, "...skin color resembling beaming copper that shows off their face, instead dense onyx which absorbs it" Tells me exactly what you believe and how far you'll go to justify that belief to yourself.

@Pioneer1 you asked Brother LOL!

The problem i have with this study as well as the older one is that it placed too much emphasis on how adults interpret children's reactions. The goal in taking a test to is to "pass" it. Those being tested, select that answer which they hope is "right" whether it's their opinion or not.Some of these kids seemed rather cautious in their answers. So it's possible that they tell the tester what they think she/he wants to hear. Especially if the tester if white. And just because a black child points to a dark doll as being ugly or bad or dumb, doesn't necessarily mean the feel that they, themselves, are like that doll. I really don't think that in the year 2018, black kids are preoccupied with whether white kids are better than they are. They are more concerned about whether they might get shot by an evil white cop.

"Great Grand PooBah of how black women are obligated to look" LOL! No, @Cynique I not telling, or care, how women, or anyone else for that matters dresses (save the generally accepted standards required in various situations -- for example I don't think boys pants should sagging in school). You mentioning that the video I posted reflected a study from "8 years" ago was a thinly veiled attempt to suggest that it was ancient history -- do you think anything has changed? OK lets leave the issue of Black people trying to to achieve a eurocentric standard of beauty alone -- indeed I'll even concede the point. Instead lets follow up on @Mel Hopkins's point of "european women trying to look like us." I agree with this indeed it is the foundation of my point -- white women are not immune to these pressures. We all know that white women are literally killing themselves trying to look like Black women with butt implants and the lip injections, etc. Again women, much more so that men, are manipulated by marketers into engaging in behavior as it relates to how they dress and it only causes them harm, or impovershes them. Mel, do you still go out for the evening with the 5" heels, but pack a pair of sensible flats, because you know your feet are going to be hurting before the evening is over? Women our age are now having foot surgery to repair the damage caused by stupid shoes some white guy invented to make money -- which women buy by the closet full. Elvis Presley used to get his hair poofed up to look like the Black blues men while Black blues men conked their hair to look like white people. Go figure. I can't believe y'all have never seen sisters with Blond wigs?! I'm going to Jackson MS next weekend and I guarantee I see some sisters with Blond hair and I'm taking photos! LOL! Mel I see you clearly have never set foot into one of ATL many strip clubs LOL! Mel, I also went to my local B&N to buy the new issue of Ebony that contains your articles, but they still had the July/August Issue on the stand I'll try later next week, Poets & Writers had Poet Terrance Hayes on the cover... I brought that.

What did the present system devolve from? Your version of what is natural? Which would be sexual communes where everybody was free to screw everybody else, and wild untamed hair was be mandatory, and government would be run by whomever drew the longest straw and industry would consist of scratching around for food and water.

@TroyWell, maybe if you took off your blinders and relinquished your role as the Great Grand PooBah of how black women are obligated to look, you wouldn't be so frustrated. Perhaps these Nigerian women appreciate manageable lustrous hair they can flip round because it reminds them of flowing silk instead of immobile wool, and skin color resembling beaming copper that shows off their face, instead dense onyx which absorbs it. They might be inspired just as much by Nature as by Europe. And where is it written, except in your mind, that people have to settle for their looks, if they can change them and become another version of themselves? Self-esteem has many facets, but you and others want to decree what facet black women are obligated to reflect. You all think the criteria you want to impose on black women are preferable to European ones, disregarding the complex aesthetics of the female psyche. Furthermore, transforming her appearance can boost a woman's moral enough to improve her effectiveness in other areas of her life. You may be appalled by this idea, - but so what? Whatever the motivation for modifying their looks, since Nigerian woman have not anointed you as their Savior and Redeemer, you'll just have to fall back on the "denial" explanation you cling to because you can't accept the idea that a woman has to learn to like herself, and it's her prerogative to choose what self she wants to like.

@Cynique Yes! This is exactly what I thought when I read this thread... There seems to be a whole black women's narrative accented by #blackgirlmagic movement that seems to be be passing some brothers by. The thing is @Troy and @Pioneer1 I can't say if this is caused by your framing what's happening today with whom you are atrracted to, or who's in your comfort zone. But most of us black women are celebrating our "free-to-be-me" looks. The challenge though for any of us to look through a new lens. I attempted to look for and see these black women who you say seem to be hating themselves because Beyonce wears blonde wigs and weaves. When I look in the retail stores, the grocery stores, restaurants, on social media, my friends, my daughters' friends, their coworkers; when I travel the world or in the airports, I don't see any women represented in that narrative you both talk about. In fact, if mainstream media is snapshot of our current culture; the biggest, most profitable issue for fashion editorial magazines is September and here's the covers from the majors. This is what black women are raving about this month... We have taken over the covers and we are well represented all shades, hair types and body types. etc.... But what excites me even more is these black women featured on the covers are so focused on achieving their best lives ever professionally and personally that it is inspiring black women of all ages but especially our youth... I was fortunate enough to have TWO stories in this month's EBONY ... I wrote the coverstory for (Natural hair wearing) Peabody-Award winning TV Program creator ISSA RAE and a goals segment featuring filmmaker Nicole Franklin (page 22)...These women are self-made because they are putting in the work. So, I could be biased but that old narrative of trying to emulate white folks and europeans is really tired and ancient - because in the words of Kimberly "Sweet Brown" Wilkins "Ain't nobody got time for that" 😁