frankster

True... how do you verify a fact? The Noah and the building of the Ark is about Trust and Faith when the whole World seems to be against you. How does Helel help you? What evidence of this do you have......cannot the same doubts you have of scripture be said about this Helel son of sofar? That's what I said....you using different words to arrive at the same conclusion. All Truths are but half Truth.....it is the fundamental nature of truth If the story is based on facts....then there is Truth - seek it. Exactly...the naive and inexperienced do not know that it is foolish. Noah was thought to be naive inexperience and most of all foolish. The scriptures are books ....Old and new is a artificial separation. The bible is a compilation of those books.. Do you think the Babylonian Captivity/conquest took place? If not then your idea that the scriptures were influenced by Babylon is False You yourself stated that our books of Health Biology Law and Psychology have falsities and errors in them....yet we use them still. I only seek the truth

Marriage was originally only practice by the rich to ensure their wealth status influence(power) and progeny ...a purely economic and political contract between two families. When it comes to matters of the heart.... If all involve are happy...then I see no blame or fault. - regardless of the BLACK FINANCIAL DRAIN. Culturally in the East having more than one wife is commonplace....Having more than one husband is rare. On the other hand before the rise of Patriarchy...Polyamory was popular.

Based on Evidence....based in and on historical facts. L Until it's not. Never said the bible was perfect....and Man is the agent of the Divine You see errors...".To the pure all things are pure" "Seek and ye shall find"...you looking for errors then you will find errors - the error is in your eye. The Scripture is one comprised of many books. The bible never mentioned the house hold cat in neither Old or New testament does that mean the never existed? Who coined the phrase "Ask not what your country can do for You"....? Often time you have scribes who write such things and credit he who provides the coin. Provide your source....i love to learn. Approximately 25% of Israel's population went into Babylonian Captivity...they then came home and rewrote the religious practice of those who were free the entire time .....the newly free brought back the foreign religion of their captors and the locals accepted their enemies religion.. Whilst In Egypt the entire Population went in a mere 100 and lived in Egypt for 400 yrs growing to 500,000 ,,,,but somehow 20,000, less than quarter the population spending 70 yrs has more effect on hebrew and religion culture????? As I have always maintain...the are based in and on facts however poetic license was used for the greater good.

It is not confusing if you understand.....There is a legend and a key Then what do you put your trust in? How does knowing about a king in the distant past named Helel help you in this life right now? Lucifer has another meaning which is shared with Jesus Christ The messiah - The "Morning Star" - AKHET -Horus/Heru It is your Right and your loss. The Truth is you have made up your mind....."Truth is stranger than fiction and that is because fiction has to stick to possibilities" I love dialog that's entertaining and informative. Not a entire book.....several books True... Most in opinion are sourced from Ancient Egypt and pre christian Egypt for both Old and New Testament respectively. Information is pure data... Knowledge is understanding that Data. How do you know what True?

Pioneer1 posted the following in red. Judaism was started in Egypt and develop in Canaan/Palestine. Judaism wasn't started in Egypt, it was started in Babylon...the same place the Jews came from. It may contain CERTAIN RITUALS and SCRIPTS that were also found in ancient Egypt (and there's a good reason for that) but Judaism itself wasn't founded in Egypt or Palestine. Judaism didn't come from Moses by the way..... What Moses taught wasn't Judaism and even when you read the Old Testament you don't find the term "Judaism" in it. It came from Babylon and is a mixture of some of Moses' teachings with some Babylonian beliefs and some Persian/Zoroastrian teachings. Isn't it funny how these "inspired" religions and scriptures seem to grow and expand as the culture and sophistication of humans grow and expands in the region???? So if Moses is not the founder of Judaism....what religion were they practicing soon after Exodus to Babylonian Captivity? The Spent approximately 400 yrs vs 70 yrs - in my father's life time - grandpa's time Approximately 20, 000. went into Babylonian Captivity...About 50,000. came out Egypt less than 100 went in - over 500,000. came out

So it's not all Allegories after all So this Lucifer/Helel is real.....? The Info I have is enough proof to me as to the reality of much of the stories in the bible being based in fact..poetic license is taken to teach a moral and or Spiritual lesson... Where is the prove of these falsities you speak of? God Made everything... Confusion is a human Condition of Mind. To disobey the Laws of The Divine or work against the will of God is to be Confused. Example: The Law of Gravity....you fall and hurt yourself - is Gravity at fault? They are Scriptures nevertheless. The Bible is but a small fraction of the Scriptures....selected by inspired men to forward their own prejudices . Example: Kidnappers and Enslavers of Men thought they could use the Scriptures to Justify the enslavement of a people, those same people found the route to Liberty and freedom in the Words of the self same Scriptures selected to keep them in bondage Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. The Source is often times clearer than the Conclusion/End use. When you transplant or recycle Parts or Organs.....Those individual parts or organs still retain their original age and used condition(memory) even if in a new machinery or body Then we agree....the Scriptures are old knowledge taken by compilers to curate their bible.....many books/Scriptures was not included in The Bible. With no information to the Contrary and knowing that that is the Culture of the Time and place among those people.....yes I accept that as the Reason. Not a speculation but rather a Theory or Hypothesis. The obvious can be misleading...."there is nothing more deceptive than the obvious fact". It is also obvious that ships sink into the ocean as the travel further out to sea...and railway tracks meet in horizon I do not accept it all in literal sense, but I refuse to throw the babe out with the bath water....meaning there is truth and goodness in it. Life often does not gives us sureties.... The Scriptures call Man God, Angels God and Man Angel ...why - One of the reason is because we all look alike. The New Testament is Scripture.

First let us realize they are lying Spirits that The Divine may work with...one such evil spirit is Lucifer-the morning star or light bringer No ...not to my knowledge or belief. Yes...I have given you my thoughts on the matters. Most of what is contradictory or false to you ... I have shown why they are not to me. I too believe in Truth... and only accept truth Yes All things were made by The Divine....Good and evil Dead Sea Scrolls have been put at about 2000 yrs. Nag hammadi is believe to be even older. The Source Material from which they are taken in Egypt and Sumer(Babylon and Akkad)....some source material over 6,000 - 30,000 yrs old - basically EVERLASTING, IMMEMORIAL True No....I cannot that information is in not in the Bible. That info can be gleamed from culture and tradition of the times. Deuteronomy 25 :5-6 “If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the widow of the dead man shall not be married to a stranger outside the family; her husband’s brother shall go in to her, take her as his wife, and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her. 6 And it shall be that the firstborn son which she bears will succeed to the name of his dead brother, that his name may not be blotted out of Israel. The purpose of a hammer is to hammer things.....but you can also use it for other things - Repurposing is real The Scripture is comprised of many books. None is title Old or New Testament Maybe Constantine decided to categorizes some as new and others as old....but I know different Judaism was started in Egypt and develop in Canaan/Palestine. If one is unwilling to do any work...i rest

Ok so let me bring you back up to speed....that which is in red is your words.... Pioneer1 said the following First of all let's look at the first part of the story: The actual instructions and Who they allegedly came from. In Genesis Chapter 2 we read: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. According to this verse the "Lord God" said they would die THAT DAY. Did they? Or did they go on to live for hundreds of more years However let me ask you directly, do you believe The Divine has ever communicated something false to human beings? to which I responded as follows: The Divine can do anything and everything..... Die is a verb present tense - dead is adjective/noun past tense Take the modern term "dead man walking " what a miracle - go figure. Hope that helps, if you need further reminding feel free to let me know and i will do my best to help Most things in the bible "matters" if one is to find Truth. My Neighbor son name is Jesus....does that make him our deliver,saviour or rescuer. You are entitled to your opinions.....As am I For me the Bible is manual on how to live.....to me that is divine. John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. That is good enough... The bible has been around for several thousand years.....whilst they mostly only last a few decades at most before having to be corrected and made current Both hold Truths, the bible's truth has withstood the test of time....whilst the other books bought us the modern age. They Teach us how to live. Did I say they were written by the Divine? Levirate Marriage wherein a brother is obliged to marry his deceased brother's widow and raise up children in the name of the dead brother. Jacob was Joseph biological Father Heli was Joseph legal father The Bible purpose is to show us humans how to live a Righteous Life Luke 1:26 Six months after Elizabeth had become pregnant, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a city in Galilee. Wrestle with God A man seeing God.. A journey by night with God Do a little digging if you cannot find anything ....I rest on this issue.

True... The Divine can do anything and everything..... Die is a verb present tense - dead is adjective/noun past tense Take the modern term "dead man walking " what a miracle - go figure. Yes I think. Who named Eve....Adam - man is frail and vain and do err... Do you think Adam thought Eve was his mother? Those words of Adam must be wrestle with to discern its meanings. The Divine is omnipresent All things in existence is made by The Divine of the same Stuff - Atoms Neither are we mention in our books of health, biology, psychology and law but they all tell/teach us about ourselves. Of course they were Inspired..... The differences you see is owing to one or all of the following ..Perspective, Perception and Personal Prejudice (opinion or goals) The Divine is Most Wise .... The Divine have been known to work with ....Harlots and all kinds of Man The Divine is most Wise....Pauline Christianity has brung functional unity and Civilization to great parts of Europe. Men can and do lie...but even so The Divine will will still be done Daniel 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. I did say esoteric meaning.....and yes it can be consider philosophical pondering. where is the contradiction? According to the Narrative in the Bible Jacob did steal Esau's birthright and Esau was approaching with four hundred men...the rest is not philosophy the rest is common sense I never refuted that meaning I only tried to reveal to you that word can have more than one meaning...and sometimes the other meanings are revealing

I am saying you are I cannot and should not limit the Divine... I think they are legends yet to be proven. Name the most Glaring Fabrications that you know of? True enough. In short Holy means worthy of devotion or of the Divine.....Can you name something in existence not of the Divine? The Bible is about the Divine....it tells/teaches us about ourselves. Written by the Divinely inspired Men.....Men are vain frail and do err No....you must be clear. The Divine is always Clear....St Paul struggles with himself an unclear vessel. Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. So now you are saying The Divine lied? A Translation issue. Aramaic Scriptures the language Jesus allegedly spoke says they were Angels and Angels are often in scripture mistaken as men.... It is ambiguous to the unclear To find the truth One must struggle with it As an aside their is an Angel named Phanuel whose named is sometime translated as Peniel. Lastly EL is often at the end of most if not all Angels name....EL mean God Translations from Aramaic Peshitta Holy Bible Translated And Yaquuv called the name of that country, Penuyel, because, “I saw an Angel face to face and my life is saved.” Lamsa Bible And Jacob called the name of that place Peniel; for be said, I have seen an angel face to face, and my life is preserved. https://biblehub.com/parallel/genesis/32-30.htm Jacob struggles with the Divine and is blessed...go figure. Jacob overcome his lower self and is renamed/reborn a new man - esoteric meaning Satan is of the Divine....The Opposition - The Adversary The Divine reside in Man.... Very Good name when one realizes that to fight is to struggle or wrestle with an issue....is to find a solution/Salvation - Savior The Narrative He stole his brother's birthright who now approaches with four hundred men...Jacob Has a dark night of the soul moment - Esau is now Satan - The Adversary The Angel of death or the Avenging Angel destruction and ruin approaches That could very well be. IsRa means....Journey at Night El means God Journey at night with God....perhaps a dream or simply to meditate.

Exactly .... The Divine sees more than we humans do and emphasize that which is most important. We cannot limit the Divinity by denying its capabilities..of what it does and doesn't do Is the Divine limited or constrained by our concepts of Right and Wrong?.....I say NO . Embellishment and poetic license can both be achieve without lying.....but by placing emphasis and some details and less on other facts of a story. You should not answer a question with question. You go first who if anyone of the Two lied? Serpent or God. or is there another answer? What does Holy mean? Man is One Agent of the Divine....and all Agents color or influence the Message of the Divine The part meant for you are Clear....and simple as in every first step That part that is unclear to you, as you progress must be work out....as with all things in life. So you are telling the divine what is best?!?...that's rhetorical. The following are literalistic interpretation....No Contradiction Genesis 32:24 says it was a man And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. Genesis 32:1 agrees with Hosea 12:4 that is was an Angel. Jacob mistook an Angel for God....it is common man is vain frail and do err. Spiritual Interpretation Angels are extensions of the Divine/God and act in The Capacity of God Genesis 1:26 God said, Let us make man in our image. Sacred Meaning Man must wrestle/struggle with God and Man/Earth to secure his Blessings in Life...

If Found guilty on all allegations.....House Arrest or Suspended Sentence or some type of Probation. Imprisonment I would be surprised....In any case The first Republican to win the Presidency would Pardon him of all Charges. I remember him chanting "Lock her Up" ....the Gods can be so humorous - in the end she wasn't lock up.

I am new . If he is threatening the life of the posters or the continued existence of this forum...then do as you must for the greater good. If he is no threatening but testing our opinions and beliefs....then let him continue to strength us.

True... Being based on truth is different from being an allegory or being totally made up... One now must decipher the Truth. Why is it Unacceptable for divine sources to embellish? Poetic license is not lying. I never said the Divine lies..... Genesis 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Did God lie? did God say they would die? Did the Serpent Lie? The Divine has no need to lie....we lie to ourselves. The Authors of the Holy Scriptures are Human.. Humans are frail and vain. Yet Most Chinese today are Pale in comparison to the Mongolians in your picture? No the man in the picture above looks more light brown to pink than red ...to me Nevertheless I see where you are going. Again could it be that the falsities you see are your own misunderstanding? Provide your single most glaring example of this contradiction? According Genetics and Archaeology: all modern human are descendants of Black Africans. In other words humanity is African

True....The Laws of Nature does not submit to our suppositions of Right and Wrong or Good and Bad Who among us no the Mind or plans Of God The Old must die for the New To thrive Name calling and screaming are Words.....be careful they do not perturb you Words are Powerful Tools....."the tongue is mightier than the sword" - To paraphrased. Wow I would love to visit some of the more vile and argumentative filled forums....do you care to recommend the worst of the lot???

I find that fruitful and uplifting communication is Good and Rewarding Yes Jesus had emotional outburst at times it demonstrates his humanity....Hence the Heresy of Arianism making Jesus simply another "son of Man" who has been Anointed the Messiah. What's to be gained from such language but acrimony and hurt feelings.

Yes you did and so did I I do not want you to accept anything I say or post all I want is for you to express your truths as we reason and learn from each other. I am here for fun and to spend the time in fruitful communication.

So are you saying that the Stories and Narratives we read in the bible has no basis in historical facts and or Reality?..I think bible stories are based in facts It is my thought that they do have some basis in historical fact but that the authors took "poetic License" to make a point, teach a lesson or pass on Knowledge. It akin to making a True To life Movie some parts are embellish to make the movie interesting catching or memorable. The Expulsion from Eden is God's way of weaning Man....Man is No longer a Brute but Sapient nor just a Nomadic hunter/gatherer. Are Chinese people considered caucasian and do they blush? I thought Adam meant Earth Ground or Dust, and that the Story is telling us that all human beings are One Family Thanks for the Honesty....Neither can I say the the bible is a 100% true I know there is Truth in the bible. The Bible is more than a history book How would you recognize a "Divine Book"? How do you know that what you label as "falsehood" is not just you not understand the message or truths it imparting? The Mythical "Greater Caucasian Civilization" would have to be in my estimation the Aryans....The Aryans are and were Persians And who do these Caucasians Descend from? Neighbor means someone living close to you or with whom you associate, not necessarily a tribal affiliate. Honesty is the basis of all long term mutually beneficial relationship... Cool

Yes... If you see someone in a vision that you know then you will recognize that person and will often point idiosyncrasies particular to that person. This is natural they all saw him die....no one would expect to see him alive .... Again who knows what the experience of death and resurrection does to the body. In the end they all realize who he was....because they knew him in life. Good for Thomas he now has the proof he required. Good for you...though i find that a little disingenuous due to the fact you did research for this thread you posted on this very topic It seems you went to some length to show where many of the people in the bible cannot be proven to black African...that's either duplicity or altruism. What is important is what he looked like before his crucifixion....that's how his friends and the world at the time knew Him - Jesus physical phenotype.

I prefer to use Myth or Legends and Archetypes of the Human Experience Allegory makes it almost fiction....as the place situation and events of the narrative are now of no real social or historical value Is there any of the bible stories whose allegorical and symbolic meaning you can share or elucidated the true message behind the story? Are you then saying there is no historical value in this stories? What is the Name of this "Greater Caucasian Civilization"? Are Semites Considered Caucasians? So when the bible says in Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" is that symbolic and has another meaning? Do you know any of the true stories behind any of these allegories and or their real meaning?

According to the bible did John actually knew Jesus when he was alive? That only lends more credibility to the visions Yes and He knew what Jesus hair looked Like in Life... When My love one is angry zealous fervent spirited or ardent I can see the fire in their eyes Yes I did quote that passage too. Exactly they are Visions and you describe what you see.. A vision is akin to a waking dream...and when I see my brother riding a dragon in a dream/vision, I know its my brother because I knew him in life - I recognize his appearance by his looks. John Knew Jesus

Is the description below of Jesus? Revelation 1:14-15. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. Why Not? After all she was the Queen of Sheba a kingdom located in Southern Arabia and Eastern Ethiopia think modern day Yemen Genesis 10:7 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan If we accept the prevailing and accepted assumption that Ham is the Father of the Black Africans then Egypt is one of his son...Mizraim is the Hebrew word for Egypt or Egypt is the Greek word for Mizraim Genesis 10:6 The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. Not One but Ethnically the same Who are these serious bible scholars who think Ham is not the Father of the Black African Ethnic Peoples? The Importance of Nimrod is that he was the ruler and founder of the first Known biblical civilisation Sumer/Babylon/Chaldea/ a state/country many thought was not Black African. Genesis 10:8-12 Cush fathered Nimrod; he was the first on earth to be a mighty man.1 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. Therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The beginning of his kingdom was pBabel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in qthe land of Shinar. 11 From that land he went into Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, Calah, and 12 Resen between Nineveh and Calah; that is the great city. Why Not? Egypt is in Africa I have no argument with the above....peace and love.