aka Contrarian

Nobody I know uses the term "Afro-American". As far as I'm concerned, it is an obsolete label like - "jive-assed nigga". Over the past 50+years, "Black" is the most common word used when referring to America's slave descendants. Previously, Whites soliciously refrained from publicly calling us what was considered a derogatory term until we started calling ourselves that via the "Black is Beautiful" slogan embraced by the Black Panthers who took their cue from Malcom X. This all took place back in the late 1960s, and from that time forward we, as a people, proudly became "Black" with a capital "B"; going from an adjective to a noun. The idea of blackness being "a state of mind" also came about during this era, presumably to promote inclusiveness, especially since such dynamic activists as Huey Newton, Angela Davis, and Malcom, himself, were light-skinned. In the present, calling negroid Immigrants "African" suffices, because that is what they are, and nobody is confused as to what segment of the American population is being referred to when using that description. This applies to West Indians as well.

Humm. Sounds intriguing. If I were young and energetic and adventurous I would check out this book. But, I'm losing interest in life.

Cicely Tyson played a Social worker Assisstant in the 1963 CBS TV series, East Side, West Side, a show about taking up the cause of the underprivileged.

@Pioneer1Whatever. In my tribal designations, Black American and African American are interchangeable and are terms that refer to this countries slave descendants. "Afro -American" is simply a generic slang. Immigrant Africans and their American-born offspring are simply identified by their countries such as Nigerians and Kenyans . Actually, their surnames alone brand them. They are pure Africans who come to America and take advantage of the rights and benefits that the ancestors of the hybrid slave descents known as Black/African Americans fought and died for and, in my opinion, are like carpetbaggers. Bottom line, there is no official termnology, and no consensus when it comes to categorizing America's negroid population. To white racists, of course, a nigger is a nigger. The "Miss-fill-in-the-bank" pageants are just a lot of overrated superficial frivolity that set their own standards and rules. So be it. As far the entertainment industry goes, like in every other sector, it appears that people of color in this country will just have to settle for whatever their minority status warrants. The Oscars have just patted them on the head by recognizing the black-produced movie "Sinners" with 16 nominations. Eat your crumbs and move on.

Yes, eventually losing the game after that spectacular play was particularly bittersweet because the reason for the subsequent interception was a miscommunication between QB Caleb Williams and receiver DJ Moore when we were perhaps one play from winning the game at the last moment like we did 4 other times this season. So it's going to be a loooong winter for Bear fans, the feeling being we'll never have another miracle season like this one again... Sports enthusiasts are a crazy bunch, and millions of BEAR fans in Chicaoland are still bummed out over that loss, me included. 🫩 With shape the country is in thanks to that A-hole Trump, it was such an exhilarating experience to live in the moment and watch wildest wishes come true in the company of family and friends all jumping around, sharing your joy, cheering the team on. Now it's back to the real world, knowing I may never watch another Bear game or experience the thrill of victory again! C'est la vie. Hibernation calls me...

I agree. The latter are a showcase for pedophiles In regard to the initial question posed by this thread, I never got around to anwering that yes, I do remember the Miss Black America and Miss Black USA pageants that originated back in the 1960s. Contests to crown Miss "Whatever" were common back then, especially on a local level, and I didn't I pay much attention to the details of a national beauty contest. The black versions to determine an American female paragon just struck me as eager attempts to imitate white folks... What I more importantly recall during that era, was how dark-skinned actress Cicely Tyson always got her props when it came to recognizing something other than white beauty, and in1963 she was the first black actress appearing regularly on a network TV series, to wear her hair natural. That CBS program was entitled "East Side, West Side". Over the years, the question I and others posed, just for the sake of needling those people who always want to "read light-skinned blacks out of the race", was: why having other negroid characteristics such as nappy hair and full lips and noses that weren't keen didn't matter as much as having a lot of melanin, especially since the aforementioned characteristics are common among African Americans of all skin tones. The responses to this question tended to suggest that dark skin was more distinguished. And so it goes... As for science usurping consensus, the science most appropriately involved in blackness, is Anthropology because the blackness of America's slave descendants is social as much as science. It is a culture, and state of mind as much as a skin color; it is about essence as much as about geography, it is about soul as much as about body. Of course "high yellows"should not be given preferential treatment. But neither should their skin color automatically disqualify them for representing their people in beauty pageants, etc. There are universal standards of beauty that have nothing to do with color, and the "cuteness" trait is found among all species. Yes, these points can be challenged and disputed, and this is where consensus comes into play. If the majority of people who make up this negroid segment of the American population don't agree on what constitutes their blackness, then science becomes irrelevant, especially if it is based on interpretation. imo 🫨 And, yes, I may have figuratively and petulantly "divorced" America's black sub-division but I'm still "married" to my tribe.

So many. The 1985 super bowl shuffle video, of course. And this season, all of the last minute come-from-behind victories orchestrated by the "ice man" QB Caleb Williams. Those thrilling moments were like something out of a movie. Unreal! We were on our way to another one of these miracles this past Sunday - but no such luck...

@richardmurrayI am not so inclined to dismiss popular usage. Language is fluid. Nothing illustrates this more than black slang and Ebonics. If you had your way, what word would you replace "perfect" with? Or are you of the opinion that any such state as perfection exists? Your sentiments in regard to Webster would explain your tendency to make up words.

@ProfDYes, all things considered, it was a good run for DA BEARS. Hopefully, we can keep the momentum alive for next season and go from better to best! Thanks for keeping my spirits up all these past weeks!

You are much too subjective. It's always about you and your compulsion to be omniscient, and ultimately omnipotent. You obviously want to solve all the problems of the world. Good luck with that goal.

@richardmurrayI prefer the dictionary definition of the word "perfect" which you might want to check out. And I assure you that watching old reels of Walter Payton in action will not lift my spirits about yesterday's loss.

@richardmurrayJust go with your assumptions. Why do I have to justify my sentiments to you? All of this is hypothetical.

In a perfect world, as the adjective "perfect" suggests, there are no problems. Life is ideal. You are free to challenge that definition, but you can't prove otherwise. So, we have to agree to disagree. I am in the throes of disappointment over the CHICAGO BEARS, my favorite football team, losing a game they could've won, but for the coach calling questionable plays and the receivers either missing their assignments or dropping the passes from my "adopted" baby boy, Quarterback Caleb Williams, so I don't feel like plowing through a maze of verbiage to further debate the implications of a perfect world. I'm mentally exhausted.🫩

First of all, nothing you said changed my mind about referring to Malcom as "militant". In fact, you just provided a lot of reasons to justify his being militant, a perfectly good word which you apparently consider a stigma. As for your other questions. I agree with ProfD on the first two and disagree with him on the 3rd.

We have no way of knowing which one of us is right. Do we?

If we lived in a perfect world, none if these bumps in the road would hamper one's life's journey. Folks need to be reminded on a regular basis that "nobody promised you a rose garden". At some point little girls and boys have to mature into adults who deal with reality. Life is not fair.

@richardmurrayyou disagreed with my calling Malcom X "militant" and asked what I consider "militant". Malcom was famous for the response he'd give when questioned about how he'd combat white aggression. "By any means necessary," was his adament response. And the Black Muslim quasi-military Fruit of Islam group presented the impression of being his back-up. This is a militant stance that didn't align with King's passive resistance philosophy which is why I and a lot of others considered Malcom militant. He talked tough. And I disagree with your implication that Malcom was in agreement with MLK on integration. He wasn't entirely opposed to white assistance but he was iinitially a black separatist advocate until he broke ranks with Elijah Muhammad later on. And it should also be noted that during the MLK and Malcom era, TV talk shows were all the rage. These 2 black spokesmen were popular guest panalists on these airings and what came out of their mouths during these discussions was what defined them. They made their positions clear on live TV and were very articulate in doing so. The media contributed greatly to their influence and enabled them to get their messages across even if what they said was sometimes misinterpreted. MLK often defended the protests and boycotts and demonstrations he organized by explaining that activists had to dramatize their grievances to call attention to them. In the struggle for civil rights, the movement was played out on the world stage. Martin and Malcom were super stars personifying 2 different approaches to the black quest for equality. What went on behind the scenes is not entirely known. But their influence lives on and black Americans owe them a debt of gratitude.

I think I'm the only one in this discussion who was alive or at least an adult during the King/Civil rights era during the 1950-60s. And, as I've mentioned many times before, how these times impacted on black people differed from place-to-place. A lot of what I absorbed about these times was from what I saw on TV because in the little western suburb of Chicago where I lived, no overt racial turmoil existed nor were any Jim Crow laws on the books in Illinois. Blacks and whites just went their separate ways, self segregating themselves, observing unwritten laws that perpetuated the status quo of subtle racism. This was a fairly typical atmosphere in that region. I always attended integrated schools, always had a few white friends and neighbors, never had a black teacher, and my Freshman year at the University of Illinois was when this schools' dormitories were first integrated. I've spoken often about how in my Sophomore year there when I moved into one of these dormitories, while black college students in the South were "sittin in" and being arrested at segregated lunch centers, I and my black dormmates were having our rooms cleaned by white maids, and served meals in the dining rooms by white waitresses and waiters who spoke with the accents native to the down state region of Illinois. I've mentioned how I always worked side-by-side with Whites in the Civil Service Federal work force where you were eligible for employment by simply passing a test open to everyone. This is what qualified me to work for both the Veterans Administration and the Social Security Administration before ending up at the U.S. Post Office after passing the postal exam. All during those times. I never got the impression that MLK embodied a tightly-organized, long standing strategy. This was more the domain of A. Phillip Randolph, the head of the Pullman Porters Union, and the leader who actually organized the1963 March on Washington for jobs and opportunities. King was moreorless romanticized as a young minister who was on the fringes of the NAACP bus boycott that Rosa Parks initiated. He was cast as an unknown who was propelled forward to a leadership role because he was so eloquent and intelligent and, subsequently, like Jesus, he surrounded himself with a band of Disciples that included dynamic young turks like Ralph Albernathy, Andrew Young, Julien Bond, John Lewis, and Jesse Jackson, who with the non-violent model of Mahatma Gandhi as their model, marched forth to pursue the integration dream of justice and equality for all! Meanwhile, King's militant counterpart, Malcom X was telling it like it was, ironically doing what Trump did; which was publicly saying all the things about white folks that black folks had always been thinking. I was surprised by Richard's statement that his people laughed at Malcom. Everybody I knew agreed with and admired him. Which just goes to show how history can be in the eye of the beholder and how varied the black experience can be. As for King's personal life, much of what was made public was taken from the FBI files of J. Edgar Hoover who kept MLK under close surveillance. Also, after King's death, in his memoir, Ralph Abernathy inspired a lot of resentment for revealing some things about King's intimate liaisons. "Keepers of the Flame" never forgave Ralph for this. Whatever. King has earned and secured a place of honor and affection in the hearts of his people. RIP MLK.

Seems to me, the closest thing to a typical black Miss America candidate who would not offend anyone would be a poised female of smooth medium brown complexion with a full well- coiffed head of dark hair whose facial features are arranged in compliance with the universal golden triangle symmetry, and whose body is well-proportioned. Actually, however, I think role models are overrated. Why do little girls have to look to public figures to emulate. And do we know if this is as widespread a sentiment as celebrities clutching awards would have us believe? Ideally, a girl's mother or other female relative should be her role model. And I'm further inclined to think that her peer group is who most young girls want to impress because that was the case with me and my friends. I never fixated on celebrities as somebody I passionately wanted to look like. My friends and I just wanted to be the best versions of ourselves. So says the cynical contrarian

@richardmurrayBe advised that I had no problem with King smoking and drinking and liking women because I'm not a prude. And I was drinking Scotch and smoking his brand of Salem cigarettes myself. To me, his indulgences made him more human. And he also had a very droll sense of humor which I related to. I speak from the zeitgeist of my environment when I comment on his leadership. I lived in the Midwest, not the Jim Crow South, and from our perspective, as spectators, he seemed to have just sprouted from nowhere, greatly helped by TV and his charisma. You'd be surprised how much of a spectator many "negroes" were during the civil rights era inasmuch as we were not in the trenches but, instead, simply offering the activists our moral and financial support. To us, the Movement was an idea whose time had come, and we admired and supported both him and Malcolm. So, you don't have to defend him from me! I didn't judge him. I appreciated him for all that he accomplished. He was a cool guy. And a great man.

If Halle Berry and Beyonce self identify as ,"black" because one of their parents is black, then that's good enough for me and millions of other people who accept their decision. They are women of color and the source of the color contained in their genes and DNA is a male negroid parent. ( just like Obama, our first black president. ) Nobody in America has been appointed as the arbitrator when it comes to declaring what constitutes blackness. Because there is no collective consciousness among negroid slave-descended Americans, there is no consensus on this issue and no individual can declare otherwise.

MLK didn't ask to be the leader of the Civil Rights movement. It was a responsibility thrust upon him because he was so good at articulating grievances. It was like, he woke up one morning during the Montgomery bus boycott and all of sudden he was its leader! He did not have time to map out a precise strategy or a long range grand plan, he and his cobbleled-together posse just kinda made it up as they went along, with Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolent philosophy as their inspiration. The idea of making a lot of long-range, multi-faceted demands was out of the question at that time. The movement just focused mainly on equal opportunities, and King endeavored to appeal to the conscience of his oppressors. Integration was a counter to the separate but equal policy that was nothing more than subtle Jim Crowism. Integration represented fellowship and harmony where little black boys and girls would join hands with their white counterparts and partake of equality through tolerance. It was a dream; hence King's "I have a dream" speech. In hindsight, it's easy to criticize him for not embracing the militancy of those like Malcom X and the Black Panthers. But MLK was a man of his times and he was just beginning to re-think his goals when he was assassinated. Many think his taking a stance against the Vietnam war was a mistake but his doing so was in keeping with his pacifism. A cigarette-smoking, scotch- drinking, womanizing King was not perfect, but he fought the good fight, and paved the way for those who eventually came to criticize him for not having more foresight. I lived through King's era, and to me and my contemporaries, he was a real live hero who died a martyr.

Sounds like somebody has replaced Pioneer with an AI entity. the BEARS continue to amaze, inspire, and revitalize me. I adore Caleb and I'm loving every minute of this fantastic season, - knowing all good things must come to an end!

@Pioneer1 What 's wrong with you?? Why wouldn't I check out what appears on a post I started? And I always pay attention to Mel because she always has interesting things to say. But, of course, you have to draw all kinds of implications to reinforce what you imagine. And why thank me for posting?? I'm just doing what all the other regulars who come to this forum do. Sheeze!

"Thinking outside the box" is fine if you are of a mind to do a lot of work and shoulder a lot of responsibility and stake claims on critical thinking. And, come to think of it, I never met a conspiracy theorist who didn't brag about "thinking outside the box"... so, there's that. But lazy lovers of leisure like me are not so inclined. However I, too, was an avid reader, with writing skills that enabled me to become a contributing columnist to the op-ed pages of a major Chicago newspaper back in the 1970s where my letters-to-the-editor invoked so much response that I was approached by the newspaper to become their resident voice of the black viewpoint. Which I was, for several years. Boy, was that fun. On the job at my local Post Office where I passed up supervisory positions because dealing with time cards required much more effort than the job I held stamping "Registered" on the envelopes of mail containing valuable contents, along with being the go-to person for revising and editing the bulletins and memos dispatched from the front office. And tho I wasn’t thinking outside the box, - I did sing outside the building, because on many mornings one of my favorite things to do was tag along with the maintenance man when he performed his flag-raising duty. While he ran ol glory up the flag pole in front of the building, I would stand by and sing the national anthem. To me, this was just for fun, but being a veteran, the janitor took his duties very seriously and always saluted when he was done. God bless America. And of course after I retired back in the 90s, I got caught up in the self-publishing craze and churned out 3 books which I lost interest in when time came to promote them; too much trouble. Having 5 kids would have to serve as my accomplishments in life, what I achieved - between the sheets. So the roles of a dilettante and wanna-be Renaissance person have been the "this above all" to which mine ownself "has been true". Have at it all you innovative go-getters. Somebody has to take up my slack. But keep in mind, being lazy may have something to do with my longevity. zzzzzzzzzzzz Being a CHICAGO BEAR fan may just become my undoing. I might slit my wrists if they lose to those damned cheese head Green BayPackers tonight! GO BEARS!